Can you not see how contradictory this is when your entire point against PvP is nerf shotguns?

Maybe you're sick of too many shotguns in PvP and you should just play better, without the daily attack on bungie with a game you feel is so unbalanced for PvP that you cannot put it down.

AKA: You and me, one on one, map of your choice, right now! :p

Accepted once we get custom games.

Both potential solutions have potential detrimental effects. Nerfing weapons or entire weapon types has the risk of causing the player population largely abandoning those specific weapons or weapon types. See: Auto Rifles. Your idea also kinda presupposes that Special Weapons themselves are too powerful, even on a shot to shot basis which I largely disagree with. I believe there are certain weapons that are outliers in that they are too powerful. Felwinter's Lie is a good example. But I don't think Shotguns as a whole are too powerful.

This is why my solution, as I have stated, relies on adjusting shotguns on a per gun basis and not a blanket nerf.

I love how pessimistic Cody is no. matter. what.

It's easy to be pessimistic when Bungie is ruining PvP. They appear to be vastly improving PvE, but PvP just gets worse and worse.

Annnd... THERE's the hyperbole I love so much!

Cody... you make me tired. I wish you would CONSIDER how your words are heard by the people you talk to. Just CONSIDER it. Maybe every once in a while.

If I had my way shotguns would be have realistic ranges (e.g. 40 yards). Good thing Im not in charge because that would be so unfair balance wise ;)

If I had MY way, all shotguns would be replaced with Gravity Hammers. :D

Putting that aside, your argument is still flawed. Let's say you're right and Shotguns are equipped as often as before. Those Shotguns will still have far less Special Ammo to work with. Even Invective doesn't generate ammo fast enough to make up for the overall decrease in Special Ammo. The result which, Xenos and I appreciate, is a decrease in the amount of times we get killed by Shotguns... and other Special Weapons.

Pre Patch, I was overwhelmingly killed by Primaries. If you were sick of getting killed by specials, you should play differently so you are not killed by specials. It's not the game's fault, and it shouldn't have to be changed because people refuse to adapt or get better.

It is not hard to put distance between you and your enemy. Sometimes they get in close and shred you, but you gotta stay more mobile.

You suggestions are good ones. My response would be that I already try and do largely keep my enemies at distances I'm comfortable with. And yet I still feel that the game is improved when there are less snipers locking down areas and less Blink-shotgunners largely erasing that distance advantage and less "unfair" across the room Fellwinter's Lie kills. It's a subjective opinion, admittedly. But I also think you would be very hard pressed to prove that I'm a low skill player or that I play badly.

AKA: You and me, one on one, map of your choice, right now! :p

Again, your logic is flawed. Yes, further nerfing Special Weapons will decrease the number of Special Weapon kills. But would you kindly explain how reducing the amount of Special Weapon ammo does not also work towards the same end result.

It works towards the same result, but it has other detrimental effects making my solution superior. In my opinion of course.

Both potential solutions have potential detrimental effects. Nerfing weapons or entire weapon types has the risk of causing the player population largely abandoning those specific weapons or weapon types. See: Auto Rifles. Your idea also kinda presupposes that Special Weapons themselves are too powerful, even on a shot to shot basis which I largely disagree with. I believe there are certain weapons that are outliers in that they are too powerful. Felwinter's Lie is a good example. But I don't think Shotguns as a whole are too powerful.

Instead I believe that most Shotguns and Sniper Rifles, and to a far lesser extent Fusion Rifles, are well balanced as long as ammo isn't so plentiful that they can be used as Primary Weapons. The big distinction, for me at least, is that Special Weapons should be reserved for special situations. Instead, before the latest change, they were very often being used in every situation. Reducing the available ammo for Special Weapons keeps those weapons as viable and balanced as they were before but will help push their usage into "Special" role they were meant for.

At the same time, yes, reducing Special Ammo on the map has some drawbacks. It can be frustrating to run out of ammo and not be able to find more. It is especially hard to switch Special Weapon types (from Shotgun to Sniper, etc) since there is a much larger chance that you won't be able to find any ammo for your new weapon. And, if there is far too little Special Ammo to go around, something which I am not convinced is the case, that "Special role" that Special Weapons are meant for will not be fulfilled because not enough people will be able to use their Special Weapons even when it is appropriate to use them.

This isn't a one way is wrong, one way is right situation. But answer this: In general, and ignoring the obvious outliers like Felwinter's Lie, do you think Shotguns, Sniper Rifles, and Fusion Rifles were too powerful? If so then perhaps your solution is the better answer. As I said above, I think all the Special Weapons were fairly well balanced, just that they were used outside of their "special role" which is why I think the solution Bungie choose to go with was the more correct one.

It works towards the same result, but it has other detrimental effects making my solution superior. In my opinion of course. I am also not advocating nefing special weapons. Just one: the shogun. Singular. Snipers and fusion rifles are good as is.

EVERYONE in this thread knows this is what you're advocating. It seems you are missing the point where they not only tell you that but that they also feel like THE OTHERS SHOULD be nerfed as well, thus disagreeing with you on a far more fundamental level than you appear to be understanding.

Again, your logic is flawed. Yes, further nerfing Special Weapons will decrease the number of Special Weapon kills. But would you kindly explain how reducing the amount of Special Weapon ammo does not also work towards the same end result.

It works towards the same result, but it has other detrimental effects making my solution superior. In my opinion of course. I am also not advocating nefing special weapons. Just one: the shogun. Singular. Snipers and fusion rifles are good as is.

It is not hard to put distance between you and your enemy. Sometimes they get in close and shred you, but you gotta stay more mobile.

If I do put distance between my enemy and I, they snipe my face off. And guess what else is a Special besides the "close"-range shotgun?

Maybe I can make it clear:

You want MORE PRIMARY WEAPON KILLS and FEWER SPECIAL WEAPON KILLS. If you wanted to achieve that Bungie needed NOT to limit special weapon ammo, but to instead reduce the effectiveness of the most effective special, i.e. the shotgun.

If you do exactly as I said, and make shotguns for very close range only, then they would lose more often to primaries and be used in fewer situations. Additionally, I wouldn't ruin the game. Because all of their changes so far have been doing that.

The last thing Destiny should be doing is turning back into Halo with its idea of limited power weapons.

Again, your logic is flawed. Yes, further nerfing Special Weapons will decrease the number of Special Weapon kills. But would you kindly explain how reducing the amount of Special Weapon ammo does not also work towards the same end result. Especially since just one or two posts ago you said:

THERE'S LESS SPECIAL AMMO. How could that not affect special weapon kills?

Putting that aside, your argument is still flawed. Let's say you're right and Shotguns are equipped as often as before. Those Shotguns will still have far less Special Ammo to work with. Even Invective doesn't generate ammo fast enough to make up for the overall decrease in Special Ammo. The result which, Xenos and I appreciate, is a decrease in the amount of times we get killed by Shotguns... and other Special Weapons.

Pre Patch, I was overwhelmingly killed by Primaries. If you were sick of getting killed by specials, you should play differently so you are not killed by specials. It's not the game's fault, and it shouldn't have to be changed because people refuse to adapt or get better.

It is not hard to put distance between you and your enemy. Sometimes they get in close and shred you, but you gotta stay more mobile.

They are used just as often in the special slot yes. Why would less ammo suddenly make someone use a sniper instead? Gee, there's less special ammo, that means I should use a sniper instead of my shotgun! It doesn't happen and makes zero sense.

I'm unsure if you are being deliberately dense or not. Xenos said:

If you pay attention to the Destiny Community at large there was a lot of complaint about the overabundance of using Special Weapons as Primary Weapons

and:

I personally prefer not being killed the vast majority of times with a special weapon like it was before the update, now there is a balance in what people use.

His point wasn't about shotguns, it was about the overuse of Special Weapons in general. Being shotguned was merely one example he chose to illustrate his point. I'm sure his point is the same for Sniper Rifles and Fusion Rifles.

Putting that aside, your argument is still flawed. Let's say you're right and Shotguns are equipped as often as before. Those Shotguns will still have far less Special Ammo to work with. Even Invective doesn't generate ammo fast enough to make up for the overall decrease in Special Ammo. The result which, Xenos and I appreciate, is a decrease in the amount of times we get killed by Shotguns... and other Special Weapons.

If you do exactly as I said, and make shotguns for very close range only, then they would lose more often to primaries and be used in fewer situations. Additionally, I wouldn't ruin the game. Because all of their changes so far have been doing that.

And this is where we're back to a stalemate (and I really am done this time). I completely disagree it ruined the game and know that there are people that agree with me, and I know there are people that agree with you, so we're now to pure opinion.