So it's not that you can't go in to the crucible and do just fine with Hard Light, Suros, or a handful of other Auto Rifles... but I would argue that most people would do even better with a different weapon type, once they learn how to use it. Which is a shame, since I love auto rifles. And damn, Hard Light is a blast to use :)

Hard light would instantly improve if the bullets could ricochet off of walls. You could shoot around corners!

Also, if you get all headshots, it's one of the quickest TTKs in the game, but nobody will get all headshots.

However, the situations are better served by guns like The Last Word, in my opinion.

Which also has the lowest theoretical time to kill. 2 hip fire headshots :-)

EDIT: all of these are so good, you should buy the armor even if you don't have a character of that class just in case you make one. No joke.

I no longer feel excited when Xur shows up, since the one thing I want he can't sell… :-(

Head[s] will roll if I don't get a Hawkmoon before Trials.

EDIT: all of these are so good, you should buy the armor even if you don't have a character of that class just in case you make one. No joke.

I no longer feel excited when Xur shows up, since the one thing I want he can't sell… :-(

Head will roll if I don't get a Hawkmoon before Trials.

These can be an issue because the poison will usually kill people unless you hit the third shot in the head.

Do not care :) Banana plays crucible for the lulz.

I just like to watch the world enemies burn

These can be an issue because the poison will usually kill people unless you hit the third shot in the head.

Do not care :) Banana plays crucible for the lulz.

Weird; I feel like I land far more headshots with Thorn than Red Death. Don't know what's up with red death's reticule but I can never seem to land headshots with it. Is it less sticky? Like, less aim assist?

I was wondering the same thing. I definitely have a more difficult time landing headshots with Red Death, but it does keep me alive longer... which, ironically, makes it a lot easier to earn the headshot-spree medal, even though I find it more difficult to land the actual headshots.

Which is weird because I have no problem landing headshots with Red Death but can't land that many with Thorn. I swapped to Red Death when I was having trouble getting the headshot bounty and quickly finished it after that. Red Death is a headshot machine for me, and when I'm landing them people die really quick.

Yeah, Red Death does feel a little more polarized than Thorn. If you can land headshots, it's SUPER powerful. But body shots feel a little week. Thorn will usually kill very quickly either way.

Weird; I feel like I land far more headshots with Thorn than Red Death. Don't know what's up with red death's reticule but I can never seem to land headshots with it. Is it less sticky? Like, less aim assist?

I was wondering the same thing. I definitely have a more difficult time landing headshots with Red Death, but it does keep me alive longer... which, ironically, makes it a lot easier to earn the headshot-spree medal, even though I find it more difficult to land the actual headshots.

Which is weird because I have no problem landing headshots with Red Death but can't land that many with Thorn. I swapped to Red Death when I was having trouble getting the headshot bounty and quickly finished it after that. Red Death is a headshot machine for me, and when I'm landing them people die really quick.

Hm. I generally have trouble just putting shots on target with Red Death. I've lost a few firefights with it where I'll fire four or five bursts an inch or two over the right shoulder of my target. Whereas with Thorn, I frequently two-headshot people.

Weird; I feel like I land far more headshots with Thorn than Red Death. Don't know what's up with red death's reticule but I can never seem to land headshots with it. Is it less sticky? Like, less aim assist?

I was wondering the same thing. I definitely have a more difficult time landing headshots with Red Death, but it does keep me alive longer... which, ironically, makes it a lot easier to earn the headshot-spree medal, even though I find it more difficult to land the actual headshots.

Which is weird because I have no problem landing headshots with Red Death but can't land that many with Thorn. I swapped to Red Death when I was having trouble getting the headshot bounty and quickly finished it after that. Red Death is a headshot machine for me, and when I'm landing them people die really quick.

Weird; I feel like I land far more headshots with Thorn than Red Death. Don't know what's up with red death's reticule but I can never seem to land headshots with it. Is it less sticky? Like, less aim assist?

I was wondering the same thing. I definitely have a more difficult time landing headshots with Red Death, but it does keep me alive longer... which, ironically, makes it a lot easier to earn the headshot-spree medal, even though I find it more difficult to land the actual headshots.

I swore by auto rifles per-nerf and thought the Suros was the best thing ever. Unfortunately now it just can't hold up going against TLW or Thorn.

Literally nothing can hold up to their TTKs unless you're talking about special or heavy weapons.

I've played with and against TLW, Thorn, and Red Death during this Iron Banner. My experience with Red Death and Thorn on both sides of each gun has been that Red Death is slightly better, especially at mid range. TLW only wins out in very close ranges. I've noticed that Ref Death has saved me and my enemies from Thorn's poison. It's also easier to land headshots than with either hand cannon.

You're absolutely right (in fact that's my preferred primary in Crucible at the moment) but the TTK for both Thorn and TLW is still technically shorter. I don't think that means they are overpowered (in fact most people miss one of the headshots with Thorn anyway which usually results in my winning the fight) but if you get someone skilled, Thorn is hard to beat.

I swore by auto rifles per-nerf and thought the Suros was the best thing ever. Unfortunately now it just can't hold up going against TLW or Thorn.

Literally nothing can hold up to their TTKs unless you're talking about special or heavy weapons.

I've played with and against TLW, Thorn, and Red Death during this Iron Banner. My experience with Red Death and Thorn on both sides of each gun has been that Red Death is slightly better, especially at mid range. TLW only wins out in very close ranges. I've noticed that Ref Death has saved me and my enemies from Thorn's poison. It's also easier to land headshots than with either hand cannon.

Weird; I feel like I land far more headshots with Thorn than Red Death. Don't know what's up with red death's reticule but I can never seem to land headshots with it. Is it less sticky? Like, less aim assist?

I swore by auto rifles per-nerf and thought the Suros was the best thing ever. Unfortunately now it just can't hold up going against TLW or Thorn.

Literally nothing can hold up to their TTKs unless you're talking about special or heavy weapons.

I've played with and against TLW, Thorn, and Red Death during this Iron Banner. My experience with Red Death and Thorn on both sides of each gun has been that Red Death is slightly better, especially at mid range. TLW only wins out in very close ranges. I've noticed that Ref Death has saved me and my enemies from Thorn's poison. It's also easier to land headshots than with either hand cannon.