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<title>DBO Forums - Former bosses happy with ruling, not happy with Marty</title>
<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/</link>
<description>Bungie.Org talks Destiny</description>
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<title>Former bosses happy with ruling, not happy with Marty (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/280355277/Bungie-Response-to-Marty-O-Donnell">http://www.scribd.com/doc/280355277/Bungie-Response-to-Marty-O-Donnell</a></p>
<p>This looks like basically them saying &quot;alright, let's do this&quot; and alleging Marty and his lawyer are dragging their feet, and stressing they weren't found to have violated the contract and saying Marty is trying to smear them.<br />
Also there's a comment at the bottom that is (at least supposedly?) from Jaime Griesemer saying, &quot;And we want all our T-Shirts back, too! Love, -Bungie&quot;.</p>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=89327</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=89327</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2015 09:27:41 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>General Vagueness</dc:creator>
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<title>No, and I can say with confidence: they won&#039;t. (reply)</title>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=89295</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=89295</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2015 22:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>Xenos</dc:creator>
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<title>Marty O’Donnell wins epic legal fight with former bosses (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So has Bungie given any comment on this yet?</p>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=89293</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=89293</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2015 22:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>General Vagueness</dc:creator>
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<title>He doesn&#039;t (reply)</title>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88783</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88783</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2015 06:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>Avateur</dc:creator>
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<title>He does? Since when?! (reply)</title>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88472</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88472</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2015 11:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>Quirel</dc:creator>
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<title>Calm down. All of you. (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alls he's sayin is, ya don't see ol' snipe 'round these parts no more, ya dig?</p>
<p>:^)</p>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88459</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88459</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2015 10:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316)</dc:creator>
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<title>Jaime Griesemer&#039;s take is wow (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's probably worth noting that Jaime co-founded HighWire Games with Marty over the summer, so he's not exactly an impartial party here.</p>
<p>Vic Deleon works for HighWire Games as well.</p>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88120</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88120</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2015 17:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>FoolsRun</dc:creator>
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<title>I agree with Leviathan . . . (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I interpreted the Marty/Ryan protest as an after the fact thing, if I was reading what happened correctly but maybe not.</p>
<p>And as far as Marty being least of all surprised by what happened, that's kind of my point, he apparently was surprised, and not only was he surprised but one of Bungie's head honchos agreed with him regarding the situation. I think that's pretty telling. Whether they felt their was a contractual breach occurring or perhaps they had a verbal agreement regarding how marketing was going to be handled for that E3 event, something happened that Marty and Ryan either weren't expecting, didn't agree with, or both.</p>
<p>The Infinity Ward thing is one of the more egregious examples of Activision in action, but I think even more enlightening is looking up some Bobby Kotick quotes. Kotick is the exec who was on site at Bungie when the journalists first got invited to see the game, and then didn't get to see the game in one of the more bizarre PR maneuvers in recent memory.</p>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88072</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88072</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2015 06:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>Fuertisimo</dc:creator>
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<title>I know people will pick sides (and have already done so)... (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><blockquote><p>But personally, from what we know, I see relatable challenges on both sides of this issue. The whole thing just makes me sad.</p>
<p>I think, like Marty, I too would be outraged if a publisher took away my contribution on a vital event like that. <strong>But I can also see how challenging it might be for a whole studio to work with that outrage</strong> (especially in such an important role) if they were already into the thick of it and trying to make a good game despite challenges with the publisher.</p>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote><p><br />
So the relatable solution was to strip Marty of his shares for no reason other than &quot;he'd be an ass at board meetings?&quot;</p>
</blockquote><p>That's quite a shortcut. The arbitrator's finding of fact include that after the dispute over the trailer and pushing up of Destiny's release date, that O'Donnell instigated a slowdown at work, about which the audio department complained, and that this was holding up the completion of the game. It was on the basis of that that O'Donnell was fired, and in previous versions of O'Donnell's contracts, it was crystal clear that anyone leaving Bungie for any reason would forefeit all unvested shares. A late 2010 revision of that agreement introduced ambiguities over those conditions that O'Donnell sought to use to recover his shares, but the arbitrator denied that claim.</p>
<p>The problem I see here is that the story &quot;O'Donnel wins and gets back shares&quot; is true, but people are (quite logically) connecting the dots by assuming that because he got his shares back, that O'Donnell's firing was illegal (it was not) or that it was illegal to strip a fired employee of his unvested stock (it was not). What the arbitrator found is that it was within the power of Bungie's management to choose to fire O'Donnell on a schedule that would have allowed some of his stock to vest, and that in not doing so, Bungie &quot;breached the duty of good faith and fair dealing&quot;.  Because the arbitrator deemed it fair and equitable, that is what O'Donnell was awarded. </p>
<p>Also... I'm sorry, I can say in my personal experience that you cannot underestimate the potential problems that can be caused by a minority shareholder being an ass at board meetings, especially if your foundation documents require unanimous votes for certain things.</p>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88069</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88069</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2015 06:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>narcogen</dc:creator>
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<title>I agree with Leviathan . . . (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Yeah, I feel you man. There's a lot of passion and energy I think in the discussions these days and it can be exhausting.</p>
<p>One thing I will say regarding the whole Activision meddling thing is that... It's not definitive proof that they are screwing everything up behind the scenes, but it is evidence of at least one occasion where Activision did meddle in a way that Bungie employees felt was inappropriate or unexpected (remember that Ryan actually did side with Marty about Activision's overreach). Honestly reading it it seems like Activision just came in and did a switcheroo on Bungie without telling them it was going to happen or anything. Pretty crappy thing to do even if it was just a press reveal.</p>
</blockquote><p>Well it's not even that, we don't know what the final contract was like, but in the version that came out from the Infinity Ward case Activision got control of the marketing (maybe not all control but that's how I seem to remember it), and a bunch of people here have said that's par for the course when you're dealing with a publisher. No one who knows how this works or what the agreement was like (or what Activision is like, if you really think they're that bad) should have been surprised, least of all Marty who was part of the leadership when the deal was made.<br />
Also they were given advance notice, otherwise they couldn't have tried to get Activision to change their minds.<br />
I will say I think they should've listened to Bungie and Marty because it's their universe and their game and E3 is a big deal and creative types tend to get pissy when you remove what they created (and people in general).<br />
Speaking of the Infinity Ward case, I think it's worth remembering Bungie entered into talks with Activision (although they probably didn't finalize them) before that whole mess became public.</p>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88058</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88058</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2015 03:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>General Vagueness</dc:creator>
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<title>I agree with Leviathan . . . (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I feel you man. There's a lot of passion and energy I think in the discussions these days and it can be exhausting.</p>
<p>One thing I will say regarding the whole Activision meddling thing is that... It's not definitive proof that they are screwing everything up behind the scenes, but it is evidence of at least one occasion where Activision did meddle in a way that Bungie employees felt was inappropriate or unexpected (remember that Ryan actually did side with Marty about Activision's overreach). Honestly reading it it seems like Activision just came in and did a switcheroo on Bungie without telling them it was going to happen or anything. Pretty crappy thing to do even if it was just a press reveal.</p>
<p>So saying that nothing was proved isn't really accurate, I think it's a little more grey than that. Did it prove some deep involvement by Activision trying to direct and control aspects of the game? No, but it did show at least one instance where they steamrolled what Bungie wanted to do and did their own thing. So it doesn't exactly take an overactive imagination to suspect that they may have done similar things in other areas of development.</p>
<p>Activision has a reputation, and they didn't get it because they've left wonderful feelings and experiences wherever they go. I think it's pretty normal to not want your favorite developer to become entangled with an entity with a track record like Activision, and I think that concern and worry is what drives a lot of the anti-Activision sentiment.</p>
<p>I'll add at the end, since I know there are people on the board who have some connection to Activision, I'm sure there are wonderful people there who work hard and just want to make kick ass games. It's more the executives (think Bobby Kotick) who are worrisome.</p>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88045</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88045</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2015 00:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>Fuertisimo</dc:creator>
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<title>Now I feel bad for liking all that Zep... (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Same.  But that immigrant song...  So good.</p>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88022</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88022</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2015 21:25:33 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>dogcow</dc:creator>
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<title>Marty O’Donnell wins epic legal fight with former bosses (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I doubt we'll get a full disclosure ViDoc like we did with Halo 2.  This hits home too hard and reveals some nasty stuff at the upper levels of Bungie.</p>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88021</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88021</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2015 21:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>dogcow</dc:creator>
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<title>...How is posting here supporting Bungie, exactly? (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><blockquote><p>It's not like they get paid per post, or anything.</p>
<p>...</p>
<p><em>Do</em> they?</p>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote><p><br />
No, but WE do. Just last year we finally installed the indoor pool. It's only about a foot wide but it flushes!</p>
</blockquote><p>Don't forget about the 7% we give to Bungie though! They don't even spend it, they just make Claude watch them burn it!</p>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88020</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88020</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2015 21:12:01 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>Xenos</dc:creator>
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<title>...How is posting here supporting Bungie, exactly? (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It's not like they get paid per post, or anything.</p>
<p>...</p>
<p><em>Do</em> they?</p>
</blockquote><p>No, but WE do. Just last year we finally installed the indoor pool. It's only about a foot wide but it flushes!</p>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88019</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88019</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2015 20:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>Leviathan</dc:creator>
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<title>petetheduck works for Bungie, right? Let&#039;s ask him...? :) (reply)</title>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88018</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88018</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2015 20:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>Pyromancy</dc:creator>
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<title>...How is posting here supporting Bungie, exactly? (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's not like they get paid per post, or anything.</p>
<p>...</p>
<p><em>Do</em> they?</p>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88017</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88017</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2015 20:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>RaichuKFM</dc:creator>
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<title>There are lots of good people at bungie (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>However, Bungie is a business. Unfortunately, their direction, their relationship with the public, andand their cooperation with other companies is all shaped and decided by upper management.<br />
If <strong>YOU</strong> are unhappy with the direction they've chosen to take, the <em>only</em> thing <strong>YOU</strong> can do to change it is to stop supporting them.</p>
</blockquote><p>This is one of those look in the mirror moments. For this all revolves around <strong>YOU</strong></p>
<p><strong>YOU</strong> have clearly demonstrated in the past that <strong>YOU</strong> are unhappy with the direction they have chosen to take with the game and as a company.</p>
<p>By posting here, whether <strong>you</strong> think <strong>your</strong> tone is positive or negative, whether <strong>you</strong> think <strong>your</strong> posts are helpful or UN-helpful, whether <strong>you</strong> think <strong>you</strong> are right or wrong, whether <strong>you</strong> think the Queen of England reads this forums or not<br />
By actively posting here <strong>YOU</strong> are actively supporting the company. <strong>You</strong> can't change it by posting something here.</p>
<p>The ONLY thing <strong>you</strong> can do to change it is to stop supporting them.</p>
<p>So please, take your own advice and stop posting here.</p>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88016</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88016</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2015 20:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>Pyromancy</dc:creator>
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<title>I bet that Sir Paul reads this forum, I should post more ;) (reply)</title>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88015</link>
<guid>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=88015</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2015 19:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>Pyromancy</dc:creator>
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<title>Yes. (reply)</title>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don't have to go with the flow or make like a tree, you can choose to walk a new path.</p>
<blockquote><p>I'm still here playing Bungie games 21 years after I started. That kind of says it all.</p>
</blockquote><p>Yep, it sure does.</p>
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<link>https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=87989</link>
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<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2015 11:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
<category>Gaming</category><dc:creator>Fuertisimo</dc:creator>
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