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Bite-sized Backstory 22: Crota's Punishment and Oryx's Plans (Destiny)

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, February 21, 2017, 04:32 (942 days ago)

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Upon hearing Eri’s call to set his house in order, Oryx returns home and quickly overwhelms the Vex pouring into his throne world. The power the Vex had gained through killing and worship was nowhere near a match for the powers that Oryx possessed. As is typical, Oryx took some of the Vex and turned them against each other. We are told that Quria, Blade Transform, the Vex mind in charge of the attack, tried numerous different strategies but none of them were effective against the power Oryx had.

We aren’t told how much longer this miniature war between the Hive and Vex lasted, but Oryx noted that he had finally found a worthy rival, so it would probably be safe to assume it went on for several more years after he returned. Once it was all over and the attacking Vex were defeated, Oryx took a few important actions:

  • He punished Crota for his failure to stop the Vex invasion. To do this, Oryx took the “sink or swim” method with his son and threw him into the Vex’s gate network! We don’t really know where (and/or even when!) Crota emerged, but we do learn he survived his and eventually became a highly feared creature much like his father. Eventually, Crota began making shrines and temples to his father, likely to share his required amount of tribute.

    The way Crota was punished also helps answer the important question of why Oryx took so long to reinforce his son even though Crota was just one step from devouring the Traveler and its Light. By throwing Crota into the Vex gate network, Orxy seems to have sent his so so far away it took him hundreds of years to reach him. Oryx’s fleet might have been rushing to our star system only to arrive a few days or weeks or months too late!

  • Oryx rededicated himself to observing and recording and learning from the destructive actions of the Deep. This spurred the creation of the Worlds Grave that our Guardian visits when we needed information about the Hive. This also shows us that while Crota is more powerful than the Vex, he really does consider them a serious threat.

  • Oryx sought out Savathûn’s advice on the Vex. She tells Oryx that the Vex hope to understand everything so they can come find a way to come out on top no matter what happens. Of course, Savathûn’s answer proves she has almost certainly had contact with and studied the Vex, even if Oryx doesn’t realize it.

    I think what the Vex are doing is combining their vast computational power with their limited ability to mess with time in order to make sure they know what their enemies will do and to make sure they have a counter ready… by the time their enemies carry out their plans.

    Interestingly, this might mean that the Vex are not on the same page as the Darkness, worm gods, and Hive with regards to having to destroy everything to win. The Vex are trying to find a “victory condition of every possible end state of the universe,” but perhaps some of those victory states include cooperation? For instance, we see Oryx nearly destroy the Vex by taking Atheon within the Vault of Glass. But do the Vex win that battle by fighting back and destroying Oryx? No. They survive by essentially negotiating a temporary truce with the City. By letting Praedyth communicate with us across time, the Vex essentially offer us the remains of Praedyth in exchange for our help in driving the Taken out of the Vault of Glass.

Oryx probably made a mistake by telling Savathûn about how the Vex invaded his throne world. She very quickly leaked this information to Xivu Arath in the hopes that one of them could accomplish what the Vex had. If they could invade Oryx’s throne world there was a chance they could defeat him, but Oryx was already a step ahead. He decided that it was no longer safe to simply rely on his throne world to protect him from death. He needed to make sure it was much more safe from being found and breached, so he decided to reinvent his throne world into the form of a mighty dreadnaught.

Creating his dreadnaught was one of the most difficult tasks we ever see Oryx accomplish. It took the combined power of him, his court, and a verse from his Tablets of Ruin to do it. We are told that Oryx’s dreadnaught is built from a piece of the remains of Akka (the worm god who Oryx previous killed but who we are now told is dead but far from gone) combined with pushing Oryx’s throne world inside out so it protrudes into our normal space. That Oryx’s dreadnaught, which is still orbiting within Saturn’s rings in the current day, is at least partially made from a piece of a worm god should scare the heck out of the City!

Oryx and his court complete the construction of his dreadnaught, and Oryx once again commands his forces to go out and conquer and send him his demanded tribute… but something strange happens here. Alongside Oryx’s little speech we see what are essentially scribblings in the margin of the text by Savathûn! She writes:

I am Savathûn, insidious. I graffiti this notice for you. These Books are full of lies!

Who is Savathûn writing to? And what does she mean? Which part or parts of the Books of Sorrow are lies? Is anything we’ve learned about the Hive true?! Yes, I think a lot of what we think we know about the Hive is true. We eventually see the Hive’s philosophy and past corroborated by other sources like Eris Morn and Toland the Shattered. Still, it does seem we need to be cautious in believing every single thing the Books of Sorrow tell us about the Hive. And we should probably be looking for gaps or contradictions.

With his dreadnaught completed, Oryx once again feels safe from attack and in fact goes on the offensive. His target? The mysterious Nicha Thought-ship!

Sources:
XL: An Emperor For All Outcomes
XLI: Dreadnaught

Previous: 21: Origin of the Vex
Next: 23: End of Failed Timeline

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bitesized-backstory

Thanks!

by Oholiab, Tuesday, February 21, 2017, 17:28 (942 days ago) @ Ragashingo

So, what's the consensus: did we truly kill Oryx, or merely "kill" him?

Also... (maybe you'll get to these eventually)

What was the connection between Oryx and Mara Sov?
What exactly happened to her during the battle? With the witches or whoever they were...
What's the connection between she and Eris?
What does Eris pick up after you defeat Oryx the first time? I'm going to have to review that cutscene...

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Thanks!

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 01:09 (941 days ago) @ Oholiab

So, what's the consensus: did we truly kill Oryx, or merely "kill" him?

I think Oryx is really dead with no coming back. Also, I don't think we killed him. Rather I think we starved him of the tribute of Light he needed to stave off his worm from eating him alive. And because of that he is truly dead.


Also... (maybe you'll get to these eventually)

Yeah. Eventually. After the Books of Sorrow will be a brief detour to talk about the Whirlwind. Then we'll try and piece together the good times of the Golden Age. The Iron Lords. The Last Word & Thorn. Then, after all that, we'll get to the Battle of Twilight Gap and the Maraid.


What was the connection between Oryx and Mara Sov?

We don't really know.

What exactly happened to her during the battle? With the witches or whoever they were...

Her ship was destroyed but there are extremely strong hints scattered around the system that she somehow survived.

What's the connection between she and Eris?

At the very least, Eris and Osiris sought and gained the Queen's help in killing Oryx.

What does Eris pick up after you defeat Oryx the first time? I'm going to have to review that cutscene...

A fragment of Oryx's sword "Willbreaker" You later cleanse and use that fragment as the basis of your own sword.

Thanks!

by Oholiab, Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 13:10 (941 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Very helpful - thanks again!

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Thanks!

by dogcow @, Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 13:52 (941 days ago) @ Ragashingo

So, what's the consensus: did we truly kill Oryx, or merely "kill" him?


I think Oryx is really dead with no coming back. Also, I don't think we killed him. Rather I think we starved him of the tribute of Light he needed to stave off his worm from eating him alive. And because of that he is truly dead.

Did we destroy his oversoul? What was his oversoul? I forget, was it his daughters, or an ogre or something like that? Also, did we kill him or did we kill his worm?

Also... (maybe you'll get to these eventually)


Yeah. Eventually. After the Books of Sorrow will be a brief detour to talk about the Whirlwind. Then we'll try and piece together the good times of the Golden Age. The Iron Lords. The Last Word & Thorn. Then, after all that, we'll get to the Battle of Twilight Gap and the Maraid.

Yes please! I look forward to it!

What was the connection between Oryx and Mara Sov?


We don't really know.

What exactly happened to her during the battle? With the witches or whoever they were...


Her ship was destroyed but there are extremely strong hints scattered around the system that she somehow survived.

What's the connection between she and Eris?


At the very least, Eris and Osiris sought and gained the Queen's help in killing Oryx.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that Mara Sov is in her own throne-world and that the 'sprite/ghost/angel/whatever-you-want-to-call-it' that precedes you through the dreadnaught is in fact a manifestation of Mara Sov. I believe she went into that battle expecting to die, and that she had to die for some reason, but I'm not sure what that reason was. I suspect it may (somehow) allow her to take some of Oryx's power. It's just the feeling I get, that she's entered the fray for her own gain.

Or... perhaps she was just attacking Oryx on her own terms instead of waiting for him to attack her on his terms, and she simply failed to overcome him, but I suspect she is indeed 'safe' in her own throne-world.

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Thanks!

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 16:22 (941 days ago) @ dogcow
edited by Ragashingo, Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 16:44

Did we destroy his oversoul? What was his oversoul? I forget, was it his daughters, or an ogre or something like that? Also, did we kill him or did we kill his worm?

Oryx might not have had an Oversoul. He'd been The Taken King for a long long time before his daughters started working on the concept. Certainly, he didn't have a big death ball in the sky.

I think we starved Oryx of his tribute and his worm ate him. Maybe shooting him a lot helped too but it was the balls of corrupted light that were the key, not the shooting. We have not yet seen anything that can permanently kill a worm god. Even Akka, who Oryx killed to create his Tablets of Ruin, is still somehow (partially?) alive...

Personally, I'm of the opinion that Mara Sov is in her own throne-world and that the 'sprite/ghost/angel/whatever-you-want-to-call-it' that precedes you through the dreadnaught is in fact a manifestation of Mara Sov. I believe she went into that battle expecting to die, and that she had to die for some reason, but I'm not sure what that reason was. I suspect it may (somehow) allow her to take some of Oryx's power. It's just the feeling I get, that she's entered the fray for her own gain.

I'm a fan of that theory too. About her being the glowing thing showing us where to go. But during one the missions our Ghost identifies that thing as Oryx, doesn't he? I'll find the exact quote tonight...

Whether she was expecting to die or not, there's certainly more to Mara Sov than just being the Awoken leader...I was reading through some of the Awoken stuff yesterday and we just don't have a full picture of what or why they are yet. There's some stuff to really think about and try and find connections for, but right now I think her message to the House of Wolves Kell is one of the most revealing hints we currently have:

"I am noble too, oh Lord of Wolves. Starlight was my mother; and my father was the dark."

(That quote is awesome and give me chills every time I read it!)

Or... perhaps she was just attacking Oryx on her own terms instead of waiting for him to attack her on his terms, and she simply failed to overcome him, but I suspect she is indeed 'safe' in her own throne-world.

I definitely think a good part of her motivation was to strike first. And, yeah, it's clear that she survived... somehow. Both through the hints we found while tracking down bits and pieces of things that would have been near her for Petra and because of that interview with her voice actress on a previous Bungie livestream. My takeaway from that was Mara Sov's in-game story, as well as her brother's, may have previously started with them down and out but Bungie may have shifted it backwards a bit to show them at the height of their power. This may also explain why we didn't get her brother's "Out here in the wild" cutscene. There's a chance that's still to come.

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Bite-sized Backstory 22: Crota's Punishment and Oryx's Plans

by red robber @, Crawfish Country, Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 01:17 (941 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Did any of the Mods ever create a page for these? I'm just getting started with them and would like an easy link list if possible.

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Bite-sized Backstory 22: Crota's Punishment and Oryx's Plans

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 01:39 (941 days ago) @ red robber

Nothing so glamorous as the Vault of Farce or Starside Lounge, but they're linked to on the front page every so often. A search for "bite-sized" brings them all up in (reverse) order.

Bite-sized Backstory 22: Crota's Punishment and Oryx's Plans

by Claude Errera @, Saturday, February 25, 2017, 21:31 (937 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Nothing so glamorous as the Vault of Farce or Starside Lounge, but they're linked to on the front page every so often. A search for "bite-sized" brings them all up in (reverse) order.

It never occurred to me to 'create' a section for them - I post them 3 (or, once, 6) at a time, so simply linking to the tags (as I do with Vault of Farce) wouldn't work, but I think setting up a page would actually make sense. Will probably go live when I post the next batch (which will come after 24 goes live).

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