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"Exodus Crash" Update (Destiny)

by CyberKN ⌂ @, Oh no, Destiny 2 is bad, Friday, May 25, 2018, 15:18 (2134 days ago)

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, May 25, 2018, 15:20 (2134 days ago) @ CyberKN

Did someone find some crazy exploit?

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by CyberKN ⌂ @, Oh no, Destiny 2 is bad, Friday, May 25, 2018, 15:27 (2134 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Did someone find some crazy exploit?

My understanding is that the strike & boss design was universally despised, to the point where most people were leaving immediately upon loading in.

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Yeah

by kidtsunami @, Atlanta, GA, Friday, May 25, 2018, 15:44 (2134 days ago) @ CyberKN

Did someone find some crazy exploit?


My understanding is that the strike & boss design was universally despised, to the point where most people were leaving immediately upon loading in.

  • Electrifying floor
  • Cloaked boss
  • Fast boss
  • Skulls that make enemy melees 1-hit kills

Was a rage inducing combination

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Yeah

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, May 25, 2018, 15:52 (2134 days ago) @ kidtsunami

Hmm. The floor only electrifies if you let it...But yes, don’t play it on Lightswitch weeks.

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Yeah

by kidtsunami @, Atlanta, GA, Friday, May 25, 2018, 15:55 (2134 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Hmm. The floor only electrifies if you let it...But yes, don’t play it on Lightswitch weeks.

Yeah I was thinking about that when I wrote it, during those lightswitch weeks that the 3rd phase always got too hectic for us to keep the ground clear and avoid getting one shot by the boss at the same time. So invariably we got caught in it's snare.

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Glass (50% health, ++Rec) is also hell in that boss fight.

by Harmanimus @, Friday, May 25, 2018, 19:24 (2133 days ago) @ kidtsunami

- No text -

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Should I get a matchmaking ban

by kidtsunami @, Atlanta, GA, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 10:51 (2132 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Hmm. The floor only electrifies if you let it...But yes, don’t play it on Lightswitch weeks.

on lightswitch weeks, or are you saying that I should just not play strikes during lightswitch weeks?

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Should I get a matchmaking ban

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 11:31 (2132 days ago) @ kidtsunami

Hmm. The floor only electrifies if you let it...But yes, don’t play it on Lightswitch weeks.


on lightswitch weeks, or are you saying that I should just not play strikes during lightswitch weeks?

I think lightswitch is a fundamentally player-hostile modifier. I think it was poorly considered and it makes far far too many Strikes an utter nightmare. Fortunately, the Heroic Strike modifiers now change day to day. So, for days that have Lightswitch... Yeah... I’ll just play the normal Strike playlist if I want to Strike.

Nightfalls, where the modifier does persist throughout the week, are not matchmade. Do whatever you want since you won’t be harming anyone (eh... except those on your fireteam I suppose.)

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We can kill gods, but not stun a fallen boss. Seem'd legit.

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Friday, May 25, 2018, 18:49 (2133 days ago) @ kidtsunami

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by narcogen ⌂ @, Andover, Massachusetts, Saturday, May 26, 2018, 06:09 (2133 days ago) @ CyberKN

Did someone find some crazy exploit?


My understanding is that the strike & boss design was universally despised, to the point where most people were leaving immediately upon loading in.

Yes, but notice that the initiative for improved communication doesn't include being frank about why the strike is being removed, just standard customer service weasel words about future possible "improvements".

So we have no idea whether this is because that boss fight is so bad that hardly anyone wants to play it, or that because it was so bad, players found a way to exploit it and THAT is what Bungie needs to "improve".

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by Harmanimus @, Saturday, May 26, 2018, 07:44 (2133 days ago) @ narcogen

Given the community’s tendancy to spread exploits like creamy peanut butter I would benture that it is data of everyone quitting out at the start of the strike.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Saturday, May 26, 2018, 16:34 (2133 days ago) @ narcogen

Did someone find some crazy exploit?


My understanding is that the strike & boss design was universally despised, to the point where most people were leaving immediately upon loading in.


Yes, but notice that the initiative for improved communication doesn't include being frank about why the strike is being removed, just standard customer service weasel words about future possible "improvements".

So we have no idea whether this is because that boss fight is so bad that hardly anyone wants to play it, or that because it was so bad, players found a way to exploit it and THAT is what Bungie needs to "improve".

Frankly, I don't think it matters. They are improving shit because it doesn't fit with what the community wants. If you don't know what is wrong with the strike then it shouldn't affect you. If you do, that message is all you need to hear.

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+1

by Speedracer513 @, Dallas, Texas, Saturday, May 26, 2018, 16:50 (2133 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by narcogen ⌂ @, Andover, Massachusetts, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 12:57 (2132 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

Did someone find some crazy exploit?


My understanding is that the strike & boss design was universally despised, to the point where most people were leaving immediately upon loading in.


Yes, but notice that the initiative for improved communication doesn't include being frank about why the strike is being removed, just standard customer service weasel words about future possible "improvements".

So we have no idea whether this is because that boss fight is so bad that hardly anyone wants to play it, or that because it was so bad, players found a way to exploit it and THAT is what Bungie needs to "improve".


Frankly, I don't think it matters. They are improving shit because it doesn't fit with what the community wants. If you don't know what is wrong with the strike then it shouldn't affect you. If you do, that message is all you need to hear.

That assumes everyone agrees with what is wrong with it. In this specific instance this may be the case, but w/r/t the game as a whole, there are a lot of directly conflicting ideas about what is wrong with the game right now.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Tuesday, May 29, 2018, 07:33 (2130 days ago) @ narcogen

There's no exploit that I'm aware of. I get what you're going for, but I think in this instance it's pretty clear to most of the community that the boss fight is just considered too hard (with elements of outright unfairness when the invisible sprinting boss punts you off the platform).

I will say that I think a lot of it has to do with the light level of the heroic strikes being right at that 350 hump. The experience that I had was that heroic strikes were VERY challenging until I crested 350, and Exodus Crash was just over the line of feasibility because of its inherent extra difficulty factors. And for those first few weeks, a lot of the people I got matched with were under 350. I only got over that hump on all 3 characters a couple of days ago. Things change drastically at that point - I did Exodus Crash with randos yesterday, and it wasn't terrible. The end was still a bit frantic, but it was manageable.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Tuesday, May 29, 2018, 07:52 (2130 days ago) @ stabbim

I will say that I think a lot of it has to do with the light level of the heroic strikes being right at that 350 hump. The experience that I had was that heroic strikes were VERY challenging until I crested 350, and Exodus Crash was just over the line of feasibility because of its inherent extra difficulty factors. And for those first few weeks, a lot of the people I got matched with were under 350. I only got over that hump on all 3 characters a couple of days ago. Things change drastically at that point - I did Exodus Crash with randos yesterday, and it wasn't terrible. The end was still a bit frantic, but it was manageable.

I'm having a hell of a time getting over the 350 hump. Probably just need to do more Heroic/Nf Stikes.

~M

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Milestones, milestones, milestones

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Tuesday, May 29, 2018, 07:56 (2130 days ago) @ Malagate

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Raid!

by cheapLEY @, Tuesday, May 29, 2018, 08:56 (2130 days ago) @ stabbim

I jumped 5 overall power level from my last raid. We knocked out Leviathan in an hour and a half, and Eater of Worlds in less than that.

Obviously it’s not necessarily easy to get a crew together, but it seems like there’s been a ton of FTB events for raids the past few weeks and they’re always full.

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On that train.

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Tuesday, May 29, 2018, 09:07 (2130 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I jumped 5 overall power level from my last raid. We knocked out Leviathan in an hour and a half, and Eater of Worlds in less than that.

Obviously it’s not necessarily easy to get a crew together, but it seems like there’s been a ton of FTB events for raids the past few weeks and they’re always full.

Yup. My thoughts exactly. Just going to rock FtB raids for a bit. I'm working on grinding the 20 Escalation Protocol waves for whatever's next in the IKELOS chain; but my current LL isn't cutting it. Hence.

~M

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by Harmanimus @, Tuesday, May 29, 2018, 10:53 (2130 days ago) @ Malagate

Should be easier to break 350 now with today’s Heroic Strike loot update.

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Also

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Tuesday, May 29, 2018, 07:54 (2130 days ago) @ stabbim

This is as good a place as any to post this, I guess. I found myself with a heavy pike at the beginning of this strike yesterday, so I decided to take it indoors. I have done that before, but only with a standard pike. Heavy pikes are fun.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/stabbim/video/51970172

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Think of Savathûn's Song

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Tuesday, May 29, 2018, 09:36 (2130 days ago) @ stabbim

The boss fight has arguably the same broad mechanic. However, if I were to choose which of the two is more fun, the Big Ol' Shriekers is the easiest choice ever. Why? I'm not sure yet. Maybe it has more cover? More trash mob to have fun with? No suppression mechanic? All of the above together?

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Think of Savathûn's Song

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Tuesday, May 29, 2018, 09:57 (2130 days ago) @ ZackDark

All of the above, plus the shrieker doesn't tend to cloak and come barrelling across the playing field, flinging players into oblivion. It has the common courtesy to teleport to its destination.

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Think of Savathûn's Song

by DiscipleN2k @, Edmond, OK, Tuesday, May 29, 2018, 10:10 (2130 days ago) @ ZackDark

The boss fight has arguably the same broad mechanic. However, if I were to choose which of the two is more fun, the Big Ol' Shriekers is the easiest choice ever. Why? I'm not sure yet. Maybe it has more cover? More trash mob to have fun with? No suppression mechanic? All of the above together?

I was about to reply with all of the ways they're completely different, but then I realized I never considered anything before the part where you take the void ball thing up to the tower and get to shoot the boss until it dies as part of the actual boss fight. It just seemed like the warm-up before the fight. Taking that part into consideration, the Xol fight is also pretty similar, except not only are there chunks of the fight where you can't damage the boss, but there's even a bit where the invincible boss roams around the map and tries to kill you. Somehow, though, I still find Xol and Savathûn to be far less annoying than Thaviks.

-Disciple

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Heh

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Tuesday, May 29, 2018, 10:41 (2130 days ago) @ DiscipleN2k

Ever since DARCI got that buff, my usual team burns up Savathûn's Shrieker way before that crystal. :p

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Heh

by cheapLEY @, Tuesday, May 29, 2018, 10:43 (2130 days ago) @ ZackDark

Ever since DARCI got that buff, my usual team burns up Savathûn's Shrieker way before that crystal. :p

That’s possible? I just assumed it went immune as soon as it hit whatever the threshold is to trigger its teleport.

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Heh

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Tuesday, May 29, 2018, 10:57 (2130 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Yep, most bosses do. Inverted Spire on the first floor is always a treat.

Also, if you do it just right on the Pyramidion, the boss glitches and walks around immune until you give up.

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Think of Savathûn's Song

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Tuesday, May 29, 2018, 11:14 (2130 days ago) @ DiscipleN2k

there's even a bit where the invincible boss roams around the map and tries to kill you. Somehow, though, I still find Xol and Savathûn to be far less annoying than Thaviks.

The thing about Xol is, its path is predictable, and there's even a set safe zone in that lower area at the back. But you never know when, if, or where Thaviks is going to punt you.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Saturday, May 26, 2018, 22:34 (2132 days ago) @ CyberKN

I just beat this Strike in the Heroic playlist with Arc Singe and while it wasn’t the easiest fight ever, it wasn’t all that bad either. Totally doable with a dedicated team coordinating via chat... or just with two competent randos:

The only ugly thing about that Strike was the 8 players who quit on me immediately. As it so often happens, it is selfish, entitled jerks who poison Destiny. This Strike was mildly difficult compared to some things Bungie has inflicted on us in the past (making an invincible Ogre chase the players around a small room with no mechanic to even slow it down was not the Strike designers’ finest hour, for instance) so I really don’t understand what’s going on in terms of hating this Strike. :(

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by cheapLEY @, Saturday, May 26, 2018, 23:05 (2132 days ago) @ Ragashingo

so I really don’t understand what’s going on in terms of hating this Strike. :(

It's just not fun. It's not about difficulty, it's just not mechanically interesting. Oh look, we burned the boss and he went invincible and disappeared, cool. That's suuuuuuper enthralling design. Now lets stand here and shoot some shanks until the boss decides to reappear.

It's fine, and I don't think it warranted being removed, but I definitely don't like it. The fact that players all just immediately leave when it comes up is reason enough to change it, though, I guess.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 07:15 (2132 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by Ragashingo, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 07:19

I see it more as a reason to hand out matchmaking bans.

Allow me to provide a counterpoint on the mechanics... finally we get a Strike boss who you can actually fight with. One that swords and shotguns can be used on. One that doesn’t just do a “screw you” stomp and send you flying off the map if it gets too close. And I usually enjoy the sorta frantic buildup that happens as the boss fight gets near the middle and the way to save others sometimes is try and hit the boss hard enough that it retreats. (I had to do that at least once in the video. I was in the Red an my choices were hide and hope to get health back or make the boss leave and making it leave worked.)

Sure, ultimately Bungie needs to do what’s best for all players, and if the only way they can prevent people instantly quitting on me is to remove and rework the Strike I guess that’s what they should do. But I will forever see this as a “the community is full of jerks” problem and not a “the Strike is bad” one.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 07:39 (2132 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I see it more as a reason to hand out matchmaking bans.

Seriously? That’s ridiculous. Yeah, they should totally ban people for skipping content they don’t want to play. There’s literally no other way to play strikes. The playlist is the only way. So yeah, I’m leaving when it’s a strike I don’t feel like doing.

But I will forever see this as a “the community is full of jerks” problem and not a “the Strike is bad” one.

That’s a really judgmental way to look at it, but sure, whatever floats your boat man. Folks have hated this strike since day one—it’s not a new problem. It’s okay for people to dislike things that you don’t. That doesn’t make them jerks.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 07:59 (2132 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by Ragashingo, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 08:21

Why is it ok to make other players’ experiences worse if not make the game unplayable for them? Because that is what happens when people leave a Strike or Crucible match.

Look, I’ll meet you half way. Over Destiny’s life, there’s been at least two Crucible maps I thought were just totally unbalanced in favor of one team. Eventually one or maybe both of them were removed from matchmaking and I was happy. So, sure, I fully get why people are happy this Strike is going away.

But, if your position is really that it’s ok to screw over other players in matchmaking because you don’t like some content... well then, I strongly disagree. If this Strike was bugged or impossible to complete then, sure, I might also be in favor of skipping it. But that’s not the case. And I stand by my opinion. Anyone who skips and leaves other players to face perfectly playable content on their own is a jerk and deserves a temporary ban.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 08:50 (2132 days ago) @ Ragashingo

But, if your position is really that it’s ok to screw over other players in matchmaking because you don’t like some content... well then, I strongly disagree. If this Strike was bugged or impossible to complete then, sure, I might also be in favor of skipping it. But that’s not the case. And I stand by my opinion. Anyone who skips and leaves other players to face perfectly playable content on their own is a jerk and deserves a temporary ban.

If there was a way to actually pick which strike I wanted to play, maybe I could meet you in the middle. But there’s not. It’s the strike playlists or nothing. So no, at that point, banning people for leaving is asinine. This is a problem of Bungie’s creation. If they let people actually pick the content they want to play, this wouldn’t be as much of an issue, or if was, temp bans might be a reasonable solution. But since they don’t, players are taking it into their own hands, and rightfully so.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 09:40 (2132 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by Ragashingo, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 09:56

So, here’s my problem with your position. You have not once shown any concern or consideration for the players who get quit on. It’s all about what the quitters want with you. It must be nice that other players aren’t ruining your ability to play the content you want to play.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 09:56 (2132 days ago) @ Ragashingo

So, here’s my problem with your position. You have not once shown any concern or consideration for the players who get quit on. It’s all about what the quitters want with you. It must be nice that nobody is ruining your ability to play the content you want to play.

So you're willing to blame those players and not Bungie for designing it that way? If Bungie wasn't so restrictive this would be far less of an issue.

For someone who is awfully prone to calling others jerks, you're quick to advocate for Bungie being jerks themselves. And quick to complain about Bungie doing the right thing, by not banning people, and instead removing the content to presumably make it better before being put back into rotation.

Does it suck that you get quit on? Yeah, sure. It also sucks that I don't have a choice in which strike I want to play. You're arguing that your enjoyment is more important than mine. The difference is that I don't want to ban you for playing what you want, but you apparently want to ban me for not wanting to play what you want.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 10:28 (2132 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by Ragashingo, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 10:32

  • I agree Strikes should be selectable.
  • I empathize with someone not liking a particular Strike.
  • I want everyone to be happy with what they are playing.
  • I am totally ok with the Strike getting reworked, even though I largely disagree that it’s a probamatic Strike. (I am allowed that difference of opinion, right?)

But at the same time...

  • It ruins my enjoytment when other players actively interfere with my ability to play what I want by quitting on me.
  • It confuses me that quitting, something that has always been regarded as a jerk move, is now suddenly ok because everyone is doing it.
  • It makes me angry that you think I’m in the wrong when all I want is the normal timeouts players get when they quit on others too often. (Temporary bans that have existed since well before Destiny, I might add.)

Good day, sir.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 10:40 (2132 days ago) @ Ragashingo

  • I agree Strikes should be selectable.
  • I empathize with someone not liking a particular Strike.
  • I want everyone to be happy with what they are playing.
  • I am totally ok with the Strike getting reworked, even though I largely disagree that its a probamatic Strike. (I am allowed that difference of opinion, right?)

For the record, I think it's mostly fine, too. I don't care enough to quit out of it when it comes up, unless the other players quit, in which case I'll just leave too instead of waiting around.

But at the same time...

  • It ruins my enjoytment when other players actively interfere with my ability to play what I want.

You can play with a fireteam you know won't quit. Not a perfect solution, but you have that option. Players who don't like that strike don't have a way to play strikes at all if they also want to avoid that particular strike (or any particular strike, for that matter). The point is that you have the options and ability to facilitate playing how you want. Those that hate that strike don't. Banning them for that seems shitty.

  • It confuses me that quitting, something that has always been regarded as a jerk move, is now suddenly ok because everyone is doing it.
  • It makes me angry that you think I’m in the wrong when all I want is the normal timeouts players get when they quit on others too often. (Temporary bans that have existed since well before Destiny, I might add.)

And it makes me angry that you think players should be punished for not playing a strike they don't like. You started this whole subthread by calling those people selfish poison to the community, when you're solution seems far more selfish.

Again, it's only because Bungie hasn't given players any other option to avoid content they don't like. If we could select strikes like we could in D1, I could get behind timeouts for quitters in the matchmade playlists. But as that's not an option, punishing players for not playing things they don't want to seems over the line for me.

Good day, sir.

Good day!

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by narcogen ⌂ @, Andover, Massachusetts, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 13:20 (2132 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Why is it ok to make other players’ experiences worse if not make the game unplayable for them? Because that is what happens when people leave a Strike or Crucible match.

Conversely, that's what happens when you add matchmaking to strikes.


Look, I’ll meet you half way. Over Destiny’s life, there’s been at least two Crucible maps I thought were just totally unbalanced in favor of one team. Eventually one or maybe both of them were removed from matchmaking and I was happy. So, sure, I fully get why people are happy this Strike is going away.

Crucible matches last, what, ten minutes?

You can go into Heroic Strikes now and end up at the final boss with a lone player who has been there for HOURS, with a total player list of up to a dozen. Sometimes it's Exodus Crash, but it could be almost any strike with a combination of modifiers that are both challenging AND not fun (trickle, blackout, inertia).


But, if your position is really that it’s ok to screw over other players in matchmaking because you don’t like some content... well then, I strongly disagree. If this Strike was bugged or impossible to complete then, sure, I might also be in favor of skipping it. But that’s not the case. And I stand by my opinion. Anyone who skips and leaves other players to face perfectly playable content on their own is a jerk and deserves a temporary ban.

There is no way Bungie should be banning people for leaving a strike before completion when it lasts more than an hour, and that is going on. Those that are leaving immediately are doing so because they want to avoid that.

They could also turn MM off for those activities-- problem solved!

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More aggressive JIP would work too, I think

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Sunday, May 27, 2018, 13:42 (2132 days ago) @ narcogen

I usually nope out when Exodus Crash comes up, but if I spawned in the boss fight, I'd definitely stick through, even if it is the problematic part for me.

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More aggressive JIP would work too, I think

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Tuesday, May 29, 2018, 08:37 (2130 days ago) @ ZackDark

Thanks for bringing that up, I think it's an important factor that isn't being discussed much. There's a big difference in my mind between quitting at the beginning vs. quitting halfway through. And at least with this Exodus Crash thing, most of the people who are doing it are probably doing it right away.

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More aggressive JIP would work too, I think

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Wednesday, May 30, 2018, 08:13 (2129 days ago) @ stabbim

Thanks for bringing that up, I think it's an important factor that isn't being discussed much. There's a big difference in my mind between quitting at the beginning vs. quitting halfway through. And at least with this Exodus Crash thing, most of the people who are doing it are probably doing it right away.

The majority of quiters for me have been when we fail to beat the boss in 1-2 goes. This is true of any strike. I actually have only gotten Exodus once or twice since the new modifiers. But I did play it with the melee modifier.

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More aggressive JIP would work too, I think

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Wednesday, May 30, 2018, 10:09 (2129 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

The majority of quiters for me have been when we fail to beat the boss in 1-2 goes. This is true of any strike.

Yeah, that's a dick move in my mind, at least if they're doing it out of spite/frustration (if they're doing it because they've run out of time/have to go to bed, that's different I guess). And it's definitely not unique to Exodus Crash.

What's really frustrating is when people do that, and my deaths weren't due to my own mistakes, but some randomness. I mean, imagine something like this happens and then your teammates quit because they think you're unskilled:

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/stabbim/video/51957168

I know that's not a strike, but I wanted to use the footage, and there are plenty of other silly physics mishaps in Destiny.

I actually have only gotten Exodus once or twice since the new modifiers. But I did play it with the melee modifier.

DO NOT WANT

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 14:22 (2132 days ago) @ narcogen

There is no way Bungie should be banning people for leaving a strike before completion when it lasts more than an hour, and that is going on. Those that are leaving immediately are doing so because they want to avoid that.

I think what we’re really seeing is that randomly combining modifiers with no regard to how a Strike actually plays is a bad idea. Clearly, Exodus Crash does not have to take an hour. The boss fight when does with competent blueberries takes under 5 minutes when the challenges are reasonable. If a Strike is so hard it takes a good team an hour to beat the final room then that version of the Strike is broken, in my opinion.

I certainly don’t advocate staying in a Strike if the people you are paired with aren’t capable of beating it. I also frequently quit out if the people I’m matched with keep dying by running far ahead or they refuse to move to the next area or they shoot at me constantly for no reason or try to team kill me. I had all of those happen today so I left then reported each and every one of them them via Destiny and Xbox Live under the appropriate categories.

There are times and places and reasons to leave a Strike. But right at the beginning? Without even knowing if you’re playing with skilled team players or incompetent sabatoging losers? Yeah... that is not one of those reasons to leave.

They could also turn MM off for those activities-- problem solved!

Matchmaking helps players who don’t have friends to play with. Turning it off just solves a problem for some but creates a new one for a lot of others.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 14:44 (2132 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Is it hard to see the rest of us from way up there?

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 16:51 (2132 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Is it hard to see the rest of us from way up there?

I honestly don’t know what I did to deserve that. Maybe I said something in a way that you misinterpreted? Here’s the three points I was hitting on in more detail:

  • I think Strikes should be fun and challenging for all players and that some combinations of heroic modifiers turn reasonable Strike boss fights into infuriating ones. Further, I think normal-ish versions of Exodus Crash are well within that fun and challenging category, something you seemed to agree with earlier by saying you had no real problem with the Strike.
  • That while I generally don’t approve of quitting before you see if the team you joined is good or not, I do think some things like players repeatedly running ahead and dying or players that attempt to team kill you are very good reasons to quit and report them. And I think some combinations of Strikes and heroic modifiers like Lightswitch and Exodus Crash are good reasons to skip a Heroic Strike for that day. Either by not playing any Heroic Strikes or by quitting at the beginning. Me and my DBO Fireteam certainly did quit out of Exodus Crash the last time Lightswitch was on, for instance.
  • And that while turning off matchmaking for things like Heroic Strikes would “solve” this quitting problem, it would also make these more challenging Strikes unplayable for at least some significant number of Destiny 2 players who don’t have a clan or friend group to play with.

Now... which of those made it necessary for you to randomly insult me?? At this point, I feel like you’re going to come after me if any of my posts in this topic disagree with yours in the slightest. I thought we had a nice round and round earlier today. A bit heated, sure, but I thought we both stated our points well and ended with... not an agreement, but an understand of each other’s positions.

So... why attack me in this way? :(

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 17:25 (2132 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Now... which of those made it necessary for you to randomly insult me

It's your attitude. It's infuriating sometimes. You're eager to jump on everyone else for being insulting or judgmental, but you should look in the mirror occasionally. This whole thread you speak like you're holding some sort of moral high ground, and you started this thread by calling people selfish jerks, if we're talking about randomly insulting people. But also:

That while I generally don’t approve of quitting before you see if the team you joined is good or not, I do think some things like players repeatedly running ahead

So, it's okay to quit when players aren't playing how YOU want to play or if they're not as good as you, but it's not okay to quit when it's a strike I actively just don't want to do?

For whatever it's worth, this entire discussion probably wouldn't have happened except for two things: you started it with an insult, and you're suggestion that Bungie did the wrong thing by addressing player concerns and removing the strike until they could make changes, but instead came with the attitude of "Fuck that, ban them!" Bungie did the right thing here, but that's not good enough for you, and they should have just dropped the banhammer instead of addressing the actual issue.

Ultimately, you're right--I shouldn't have insulted you, and I'm sorry. I truly don't believe you intend to present things the way you do, at least not seriously--maybe I'm the only one that reads them like that, I don't know.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 19:28 (2131 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by Ragashingo, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 19:52

Now... which of those made it necessary for you to randomly insult me


It's your attitude. It's infuriating sometimes. You're eager to jump on everyone else for being insulting or judgmental, but you should look in the mirror occasionally. This whole thread you speak like you're holding some sort of moral high ground, and you started this thread by calling people selfish jerks, if we're talking about randomly insulting people. But also:

For as long as I’ve played multiplayer matchmade games, quitting out on people has been seen as a bad thing. For very good reason. So, yes, I do believe I have some moral high ground. Because clear of anything else, my position is “don’t quit on people.”

That said, you made a decent case for tempering my opinion with the fact that in Destiny 2 players have less choice in Strikes. Also, I believe all rules should be flexible enough to have reasonable exceptions. Absolutes suck. But in general, I stand by the idea that quitting on people who are legitimately trying to play the game is a bad thing. I just don’t think “I don’t like that Strike” comes anywhere close to balancing “so I’m going to cause grief for the players that do.” I said it before, but how would you feel if the situation was reversed and you could hardly complete something you wanted to play because everyone abandoned you?

That while I generally don’t approve of quitting before you see if the team you joined is good or not, I do think some things like players repeatedly running ahead


So, it's okay to quit when players aren't playing how YOU want to play or if they're not as good as you, but it's not okay to quit when it's a strike I actively just don't want to do?

Two examples from today:

- I had two Guardians start the Xol Heroic Strike by attempting to run their sparrows through that first choke point that has 4 snipers, a Wizard, multiple low level enemies, and at least two heavy weapon Knights. They both died instantly because they weren’t even trying to play. There was no way I could even get to them to pick them up since they died in the middle of powerful enemies. They weren’t even trying, so I left them to themselves.

- A little earlier I had a Hunter skip every enemy in the Infinite Forest. He died near the exit portal on top of that high circle that’s swarming with Cabal. He respawned, entered the portal and ran far enough ahead so that he died and wiped both me and my matchmade teammate who were picking our way through the Forest section by section. I didn’t quit on him out of respect for the person playing along side me. But I sure as heck reported him to Bungie and Xbox Live.

In both cases, player skill had nothing to do with it. It had to do with players not even attempting to play as part of a team. I will pick someone up as many times as required to help them through a Strike if they are trying. Even if they are underleveled or something. I will not sit there while someone wipes me from so far ahead that they aren’t even in the same reality as I am.

As for quitting when it’s not something you want to do, I stand by the fact that you are so focused on yourself that you are discounting the feelings of the people you quit on. That is the definition of being selfish.


For whatever it's worth, this entire discussion probably wouldn't have happened except for two things: you started it with an insult, and you're suggestion that Bungie did the wrong thing by addressing player concerns and removing the strike until they could make changes, but instead came with the attitude of "Fuck that, ban them!" Bungie did the right thing here, but that's not good enough for you, and they should have just dropped the banhammer instead of addressing the actual issue.

I’m really not sure where you came up with that idea. I certainly think bans are justified for quitters, with a few exceptions that I’ve mentioned. But from the very first time I addressed replacing the Strike, my words were: “Sure, ultimately Bungie needs to do what’s best for all players, and if the only way they can prevent people instantly quitting on me is to remove and rework the Strike I guess that’s what they should do.” Meaning I ultimately agree with removing the Strike and have from the very beginning of this discussion. Even though we both seems to agree that it didn’t really need removing in the first place. (Before that, like in my very initial post, I was legitimately confused as to why quitting out of that particular Strike was even a thing. I seriously had no knowledge of the hatred of Exodus Crash.)


Ultimately, you're right--I shouldn't have insulted you, and I'm sorry. I truly don't believe you intend to present things the way you do, at least not seriously--maybe I'm the only one that reads them like that, I don't know.

No. I do mean it. Do you speak D&D? If so, I am a Paladin. Do you speak Mass Effect? If so, I am a Justicar. I want people to respect each other and to be team players and to follow the rules and to avoid harming the experience of other players as much as is reasonably possible. And then I want them to go a step farther in being nice to others.

If the Strike just isn’t happening. If you’ve tried to play with some matchmade group and for whatever reason the three of you are legitimately struggling, then sure, send them a polite “sorry, gotta go” message and quit. (I had someone do that for me once and I took the time to send them back a very nice thank you message.) If the daily modifiers are unreasonable (like lightswitch on Exodus Crash) then yes, skip it from the beginning.

But generally, even if it means some inconvenience for someone who doesn’t like Exodus Crash, I do expect people to stick it out until it becomes obvious that the Strike will take an unreasonable amount of time to complete because of the team they were matched with. Because if you don’t, you end up causing someone to be unable to complete the Strike not because of their skill level or competence, but because you and several others abandoned them to play by themselves in a playlist that is supposed to pull in players to help them.

Now, to be clear. I’m not for permanent, Destiny wide bans or anything. I’m for the temporary “hey, stop quitting on people” 30 minute Strike matchmaking only type ban. Something to make it clear that quitting on people affects other players. If you thought I was coming at it from that angle, which you might have because I didn’t actually say “temporary ban” in my first post or two, then I apologize.

But for the rest of it? I am unchanged in my opinion that those who quit are being more selfish than those that just play the game. One side is taking an active action against the other. And that is not right as far as I am concerned.

Finally, apology accepted. I’m not looking to make enemies or hold grudges. Just... you know... don’t take the cheap shot next time. For my part, I’ll try and be a bit less aggressive in my opening arguments. :)

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 19:40 (2131 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I said it before, but how would you feel if the situation was reversed and you could hardly complete something you wanted to play because everyone abandoned you

That would suck. But do you truly love that one particular strike enough to not just write it off occasionally? Or find people to play with you? You have an entirely full clan full of people that'd probably be happy to run strikes with you. I will! I'm running strikes at this very moment, in fact (I really want that ship!).

No. I do mean it. Do you speak D&D? If so, I am a Paladin. Do you speak Mass Effect? If so, I am a Justicar. I want people to respect each other and to be team players and to follow the rules and to avoid harming the experience of other players as much as is reasonably possible. And then I want them to go a step farther in being nice to others.

I think that's a fundamentally flawed way to look at it. We're talking about a video game here. I'm not going to spend thirty minutes, often much more, playing content I don't want to just because you think it's the right thing to do. Join in progress means you'll likely get another player, especially if I quit at the beginning. You not having a fireteam to run with is not inherently more inconvenient or bad than someone else being forced to play a 30+ minute activity they don't want to play.

It's clear we don't see eye to eye on this, and we never will. I just have a problem with suggesting bans for people (temporary or not) when Bungie already chose the better option.

Finally, apology accepted. I’m not looking to make enemies or hold grudges. Just... you know... don’t take the cheap shot next time. :)

But it's right there in my name!

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by DiscipleN2k @, Edmond, OK, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 19:28 (2131 days ago) @ Ragashingo

There are times and places and reasons to leave a Strike. But right at the beginning? Without even knowing if you’re playing with skilled team players or incompetent sabatoging losers? Yeah... that is not one of those reasons to leave.

Honestly, if someone's going to leave the strike, I'd much rather they quit at the beginning so there's at least the possibility of matchmaking filling the team back up by the time I reach the boss. Having players quit at the boss after a wipe or two sucks because it means you either get to wait and hope you eventually get some backup, or quit yourself and hope that the 10 minutes you sound getting to the next strike boss won't also be a complete waste of time.

-Disciple

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, May 27, 2018, 19:32 (2131 days ago) @ DiscipleN2k

Yeah. I was thinking about that. I think my perception is a little off after watching a long string of people join then quit at the beginning. At one point I literally could not continue the Strike because the next sections scripting logic would not load because the host player quit out or something. I sat around for a few minutes in a new section with no enemies!

Ultimately, you’re probably right that someone who quits at the end causes more harm that someone who gets out of the way in the beginning.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Sunday, May 27, 2018, 20:32 (2131 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Yeah. I was thinking about that. I think my perception is a little off after watching a long string of people join then quit at the beginning. At one point I literally could not continue the Strike because the next sections scripting logic would not load because the host player quit out or something. I sat around for a few minutes in a new section with no enemies!

That does suck and should be looked upon. However...

Ultimately, you’re probably right that someone who quits at the end causes more harm that someone who gets out of the way in the beginning.

I believe this is the crux of it. We know there is JIP in place and we feel like quitting ASAP lands you a better chance to get someone who will enjoy running the strike with you. This sentiment falls apart, of course, when the vast majority of people won't enjoy it and quit too. Which is exactly what you're describing is happening. Which, in turn, justifies Bungie's actions, IMO.

Basically, you were collateral damage to an unorganized protest that actually worked.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Tuesday, May 29, 2018, 09:00 (2130 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I was having the same thought myself reading through this thread. This Exodus Crash situation may be warping perception a bit through the sheer number of people who are avoiding it. Aside from people who actually hate the strike because of their own experiences, we've now got the community zeitgeist reinforcing the idea that it's unplayable.

And, as I mentioned in an earlier reply, I think whether it's unplayable or not has a lot to do with being underleveled. I think Bungie made a bit of a booboo putting the first leveling hump right at the same light level as the heroic strikes. I suspect a lot of people's opinion of how that strike plays is based on how it felt when they were in the 340's (at which point it really is awful), and they may continue avoiding it even after leveling up to a point where it would be less difficult. And the thing is, they might not find out how much easier it is after that, because they're still avoiding it.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by Harmanimus @, Wednesday, May 30, 2018, 10:47 (2129 days ago) @ stabbim

I would actually suggest that the strike has always been bad. The only difference now is that it is a problem because the power issues compound the concerns that already existed within the strike.

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If only.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, May 25, 2018, 17:00 (2134 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Did someone find some crazy exploit?

Hate that strike. I'm not one to quit but I've been stuck at the final boss for an hour.

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"Exodus Crash" Update

by Morpheus @, High Charity, Friday, May 25, 2018, 20:32 (2133 days ago) @ CyberKN

Interesting that Bungie would take measures like that...honestly, the only thing I didn't like about that boss was that the floors paralyzed you, too. That made things a little bit much. Removing the top of that center structure didn't help either. I think the strike wasn't bad, it just threw a lot at you at the end. I haven't played a Lightswitch week, but I would hate that crap enough to drop out. So I wonder what Bungie's gonna do?

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