you're taking a volatile stance about how you play the game as if Bungie was intentionally trying to screw you over.

No, the exact opposite. I am not being targeted for being screwed over. In fact, I thought it was pretty clear that my thesis is that Bungie does not know that players like me exist. Or at the very least, they think we can be won over with the right incentives. I was just trying to let the world know that, much like your raid situation, it simply isn't going to happen.

I think they absolutely know you exist. I’m not sure what they’re supposed to do though, besides personally check with you to make the the gun you like doesn’t have any Crucible challenges tied to it. It’s just part of the game, and is basically like someone who doesn’t raid complaining they can’t get Raid armor.

I understand your frustration and annoyance, I really do. It wouldn’t be proper Destiny if there wasn’t plenty of that to go around. I just don’t know what your expectations are or what Bungie could possibly do about it at this point. They have to give Crucible players something, too.

EDIT: I’ve now actually read the rest of the thread and see your proposed solution. Seems like a good way to handle it honestly.

I don't know what kind of bizarre filter people are applying when they read my words. This has nothing to do with difficulty, drop rate, etc. I'm perfectly fine with it being hard (although, as Cody noted, it isn't really, at least for the people who do/will play Crucible). I would just like for a gun that I was able to obtain in my usual modes of play to also be possible to upgrade via those same modes. This doesn't seem unreasonable from my perspective.

I understand that. And I'm saying that the method you suggested would most likely water down the experience more people than those that have this issue. I would be one of those people. I'm not saying your complaint isn't valid or that I don't understand it. I'm just saying that sometimes solutions to problems aren't always easy to fix without potentially negatively affecting others. You solution, in my opinion, negatively affects others.

Edit: I think I've mentioned this before, but if these guns DID only drop from Crucible, I wouldn't care as much, because it would be upgrades for something I'll never have. But the weapons themselves ARE available to me.

Yes, I'm sure Vigilance Wing does very well in Crucible. I hear it does more than very well, even. But to extrapolate that to mean it has no role in PvE at all is, to me, just willfully bending the truth. The fact is, the thing is a beast in PvE as well.

What is this black and white logic? Just because a weapon's catalyst is found in a certain game type does not mean it is shit in everything else. I'm not saying that, Bungie isn't saying that. I was using it as an example that Bungie was going spread the catalysts out across multiple categories and that it just makes sense to separate some of the obvious ones to what they are generally geared for. Vigilance wing is amazing in PvP. It is still good in PvE, but there are perks that just make it good for PvP. Sky burners is amazing in the raids, it's great in PvP as well but it specifically has a perk that does well against Cabal. It just makes sense to have the catalyst be found in the raids.

Now, I believe that you are saying that weapons shouldn't be lumped up to categories because you can used many ways and thus catalysts shouldn't be obtained only by said categories. But frankly, I'm really happy Bungie didn't say that you can get a catalyst by just killing anything.

I was actually referring to MIDA Multi-Tool originally, BTW, but Vigilance Wing has the same catalyst drop requirement AFAIK, and both are viewed as excellent PvP guns, so it's a perfectly good stand-in for the same arguments.

Yes, MIDA is literally the Multi-Tool and it does seem silly that it should be lumped into a category. I'm not going to debate that there aren't guns that fall between the categories and MIDA is the perfect example of that. Maybe there should be a special case for MIDA? But to say that you get the catalyst for kill anyone in PvP or PvE seems like a gimme for the history of MIDA. Maybe there needs to be one?

The Catalyst dropping is entirely random based on a predetermined activity. Tractor Canon, DARCI, and Crimson have all had Catalysts drop for me. I did exactly nothing specific to get them. There are others with more specific requirements, but I don’t think any complaint has been leveled at them. Activating the MW Perk requires you to grind simple tasks repeatedly, though. Still not a challenge.

Black Spindle was hard to get. These aren’t.

I agree that Black Spindle is hard to get. But I also don't expect Bungie to create a black spindle mission for every exotic in the game. It seems like you do.

I'm with you on this; but side/secret missions seem very few and far between. Were it so easy to implement them, I'd argue for a good 50% of exotic weapons to be hidden behind such things. Investment in secrets/lore should be rewarded far more than it is in a game that's all about uncovering them.

~M