I hate that it feels like the internet bullied 343i into moving back to the old art style. Did they do it because they wanted to, or did they do it because they feel like they need to to make the internet happy. If you’re a fan of something and spend all your time bitching about a new art style or story direction or whatever else, seriously fuck off. It’s happening with Halo, Destiny, Star Wars, just about everything. There’s voicing your criticism, but at a certain point it’s better if you just recognize the series went a direction you don’t like and move on. I’d much rather see a product made with passion, even if I don’t love it, versus a product designed just to make people happy.

I totally agree with this. And we don't know yet whether this is a step back to Halo 1 in a good way because that's where they want the direction to go. I mean, it's going back to a halo, so that might be the aesthetic they want and they are doubling down. Only time and the developers perspective can enlighten us on this.

I for one am excited because I know I liked Halo 1 and if they get some of the feeling back from what I got from Halo 1, great, I'm all for it. But I know they can't reproduce Halo 1 and that's perfectly okay with me. I don't want them to remake Halo 1 or 2 or even 3. I want a Halo that I love.

All that said, I’m not trying to imply that 343i isn’t passionate or dedicated or excited about this new vision. They probably are! I just hate feeling like the artists and designers are bowing to a bunch of internet fuckwits that throw tantrums because they don’t like something. Even if that’s not what happened, look at the attitude of people about this. Hell, look at the posts on HBO. It’s all “I’m glad 343i realized their shit sucked,” and I just can’t get behind that attitude. And that will always be the narrative now—that 343i fucked up, when what really happened is a bunch of manbabies can’t move on when they don’t like something.

I'm just not touching this. I understand the passion and emotions that are involved, but regardless of whether it's true or untrue, I would rather have a conversation about a topic that doesn't involve slandering people in the process.

I hate that it feels like the internet bullied 343i into moving back to the old art style. Did they do it because they wanted to, or did they do it because they feel like they need to to make the internet happy. If you’re a fan of something and spend all your time bitching about a new art style or story direction or whatever else, seriously fuck off. It’s happening with Halo, Destiny, Star Wars, just about everything. There’s voicing your criticism, but at a certain point it’s better if you just recognize the series went a direction you don’t like and move on. I’d much rather see a product made with passion, even if I don’t love it, versus a product designed just to make people happy.

All that said, I’m not trying to imply that 343i isn’t passionate or dedicated or excited about this new vision. They probably are! I just hate feeling like the artists and designers are bowing to a bunch of internet fuckwits that throw tantrums because they don’t like something. Even if that’s not what happened, look at the attitude of people about this. Hell, look at the posts on HBO. It’s all “I’m glad 343i realized their shit sucked,” and I just can’t get behind that attitude. And that will always be the narrative now—that 343i fucked up, when what really happened is a bunch of manbabies can’t move on when they don’t like something.

I strongly disliked just about everything 343i did to Halo. The art style, the revised Forerunner, the bringing in of a new Spartan team, the Hunt The Truth marketing that lied about the direction of the game. But I also almost entirely moved on. I haven't made a post at HBO in a long time. Maybe years. I saw Halo as a thing that changed too much for me to love so I found something new and didn't bother those that liked the new direction.

Am I too an internet fuckwit? Or is there room for people like me who are happy to see a return of the style we grew up with and loved? I'm fine with disliking people who hang around just to complain, but I think you have to allow and respect those that stated their dislike then went somewhere else.

I hate that it feels like the internet bullied 343i into moving back to the old art style. Did they do it because they wanted to, or did they do it because they feel like they need to to make the internet happy. If you’re a fan of something and spend all your time bitching about a new art style or story direction or whatever else, seriously fuck off. It’s happening with Halo, Destiny, Star Wars, just about everything. There’s voicing your criticism, but at a certain point it’s better if you just recognize the series went a direction you don’t like and move on. I’d much rather see a product made with passion, even if I don’t love it, versus a product designed just to make people happy.

Disclaimer: Nothing in this post is my usual hating on 343 stuff. Genuinely trying to have a discussion on this one. Also, long post, so sorry ahead of time and can't blame you if you don't wanna read it. :P

I think there may be a third option (probably combined with both of your options, if we're being honest): They didn't just do it because they wanted to and/or because of the internet. We've heard "we're listening to the fans!" plenty of times from them, and plenty of times it's just been talk. BUT THIS TIME, I think they actually legitimately have listened to a lot of feedback (good and bad). I also view this art direction as a decision based on trying to use nostalgia to bring people back. This will be combined along with whatever their plan is to make their story work. I like the new art style, but they still have designs that I hate like that Warthog. There's a compromise going on in what they showed, if you ask me.

To some of your other points, how is it happening to Destiny? You talking about grind and power and all that? Destiny still barely has any story, and Bungie's been getting piled on since D1 for it. And the grind/not-grind battle has been an issue back to D1. Also, Bungie has done and said some pretty shady things in D2, so let's not wash over that. Destiny's complications don't really compare to Halo's. I think Destiny's issues with people are less "direction-based" and more execution of mechanics/features. I feel like all of D1's issues and battles are being relitigated in D2, and that's not good.

Destiny's story, for example, has been a pretty complete failure. Its lore, on the other hand, has been fantastic. And it sucks that they couldn't figure out how to reconcile all of that backstory into something great and meaningful within the world we're in right now while playing.

Luckily, I'm a Bungie fan more than I'm a Destiny fan. And I'm eagerly awaiting that new shiny product that Bungie is going to deliver in the future. Bungie tried a new thing with Destiny. They took a huge risk. It made a lot of money, but it's never going to stand out among the greats decades from now. Hell, if they ever shut off the servers, there goes the world all together as far as revisiting it. Bungie's allowed to have a letdown every now and then after franchise after franchise of greatness. I look forward to what's next, and in the meantime can still enjoy D2's Crucible and current Raid things even if I don't go buying their upcoming expansion(s).

As for Star Wars, Episode VIII's hatred is mirroring pretty heavily to what went down with the prequels. Or at least I think it is. That's not an excuse for it, btw. I still enjoyed the movie, but it has some serious, serious problems. Star Wars hate right now is due to how massively flawed it is. I'm curious to see how IX does at the box office. Either way, I know I'll be seeing it, but I seriously wish I could knock out the world's slowest police chase and all of the casino planet stuff from VIII. There's such a great movie in there, but it's surrounded by a lot of really bad writing decisions.

And as for Halo, on a personal level, my issue has always been competence and honesty, not direction. Sometimes, and this doesn't just apply to Halo, all of the passion and new direction in the world doesn't count for much if it's executed horribly.

All that said, I’m not trying to imply that 343i isn’t passionate or dedicated or excited about this new vision. They probably are! I just hate feeling like the artists and designers are bowing to a bunch of internet fuckwits that throw tantrums because they don’t like something. Even if that’s not what happened, look at the attitude of people about this. Hell, look at the posts on HBO. It’s all “I’m glad 343i realized their shit sucked,” and I just can’t get behind that attitude. And that will always be the narrative now—that 343i fucked up, when what really happened is a bunch of manbabies can’t move on when they don’t like something.

Assuming I'm in reference here (fuckwits and all that), that's fair considering how I've gone about it in the past few years! But prior to the fuckwittery, my HBO posts were actually filled with pretty detailed and specific criticisms as well as solutions that go beyond art and different directions (writing, marketing, truth-telling, having your game be tested before releasing broken products, etc.).

But to the meat of your post, when you say that will always be the narrative NOW? What? Now, as in because of this art change? Again, what I'm about to say is NOT me hating on 343. H4 happened. It lost 80% of its population in its first 3 months. That includes casuals and people who never ever post or bitch online. MCC happened. It was literally unplayable online for months, and now after nearly 4 years might FINALLY get fixed. H5's sales and population have not been a thing. They DID fuck up, and it wasn't now. I'm actually stating facts here. 343 HAD to change something for H6, because what they did was not working with the vast majority of gamers, not just the loud minority of haters on the internet. The vast majority of people DID move on when they didn't like something. You might hate the constant hate toward 343 online, but the actual reality of 343's raw data of population numbers and sales is the true driving force here.

So to tie this back to the top of this post, just think, what if H6 ends up being amazing after bowing to fuckwits and/or population charts and/or nostalgia-dollar-hunts, and what if it leads to a grand revival of Halo going into the future? Even if they have to take a few steps back while moving forward to truly move into a new great era, this could be amazing for them, for Halo, and for you! Right this very second, I'm daring to dream about MCC being fixed and 343 actually proving that they've listened and do care about something. A month or two ago, I quite rudely laughed at the thought of it when Kermit mentioned it. If they can turn their harshest critic around at all, what other critics and fuckwits and whoever else might come back around, too? Halo could have a good future on the way if Infinite works out (and it's going to take more than an art style change to pull it off, like tightening up that writing and testing and honesty).

MCC is the start. If they pull this off, there's the good will they've been badly needing. And it's been enough years since H5 that they can combine MCC good will with Infinite's launch if they don't mislead in their marketing and if they deliver a game that has a soul.

You all are correct. While I stand by my general sentiment, my language and tone wasn’t appropriate or conducive to actual discussion. I still have trouble letting my thoughts cool a minute before I post something. I’ll continue to try to be better.

There are legitimate complaints to be levied against 343i. By all means, continue to remind them that The Master Chief Collection is broken. By all means, make them aware that you don’t like the art or the story direction or gameplay changes. But at a certain point, let them make the art they want to create.

The return to the classic art style is cool. I prefer it too. It is inherently less interesting to me than seeing a different, new take on Halo though, which is what Halo 4 and 5 were. I pretty much always prefer the comic book mentality of changing art styles and different takes on familiar things. Canon matters far less to me than interesting ideas. That is not to say that others that feel differently are wrong. Just that I much prefer giving talented people room to create interesting new things, free from harassment. And I don’t think anyone here has crossed any line in that regard, but the internet in general certainly has, and I hope their return to old art styles isn’t a result of those people.

In the future, humanity built a space elevator to get to the Halo in a misguided attempt to imitate the length of how long a Mass Effect elevator truly had to be for the rides to take so horribly long while loading the next area. The elevator eventually collapsed during some conflict, as tends to happen when bad things occur near them.

Edit: In case you weren't joking, looks like much smaller stone rings that I assume are randomly about this particular Halo that's being shown off in the demo that are similar to the ones that the Marines were walking under later in the teaser.

Why are there remnants of a space elevator on a Halo ring?

No kidding! That was confusing to me, a guy who pretty much stopped following Halo after Reach... "oh, wow, are we going back to the New Mombasa area? Oh, wait, no, those are on a halo, huh."

PC, Xbox, and PS4.

The Witcher didn't really interest me because of the apparent abundance of busy work quests. If Cyberpunk isn't like that I'll give it a shot.

Can you think of examples? The Witcher is almost universally praised because none of the quests feel like busy work. Sure, there are tons of them that aren't relevant to the main story, but all the quests have their own little stories, and more than most (any?) RPGs I've played, none of it feels like bullshit.

I've learned that your definition of busywork is probably far different from mine, though.

Boy, I sure enjoyed fetching paints and supplies for a troll!

... I mean, I actually did, since he was such a dumb and loveable creature, but... still.