CRU folks are kind of ignoring pro-pipes in the meta.

I've spent a lot of time recently running pro-pipes (Orewing's/Truthteller) in CRU, and I'm a little baffled as to why they aren't more popular. Orewing's will net you 8 rounds from a Heavy spawn, and if you aren't landing direct hits (which typically kill), you're still softening up and disorienting targets enough to finish them off in short order. And 8 rounds can easily last until the next heavy spawn if you're reasonably efficient in using them.

I've Masterworked my Orewing's with increased reload speed, and paired with both SMG's and Hand Cannons to great effect. In most cases, a little splash from the pipe and 1-2 rounds with the Agamid, or a quick burst from Antiope or Escape velocity, and it's night-night for the bad guys.

And that's not even factoring in the trap potential of holding the trigger and waiting for your target to round the corner.

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Flash and Thunder is pretty great in Crucible (whether you run concussion or flash), and I was using that during Faction Rally week... until I got a Masterworked Truthteller from Dead Orbit, which is basically F&T, but with a waaay bigger blast radius. That thing disorients entire clusters of teamshooters, which can lead to picking up more heavy, but for the most part, you have more than enough for quick-swapping between the blast and your primary.

The grenades also make for excellent traps, as you said.

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Flash and Thunder is pretty great in Crucible (whether you run concussion or flash), and I was using that during Faction Rally week... until I got a Masterworked Truthteller from Dead Orbit, which is basically F&T, but with a waaay bigger blast radius. That thing disorients entire clusters of teamshooters, which can lead to picking up more heavy, but for the most part, you have more than enough for quick-swapping between the blast and your primary.

The grenades also make for excellent traps, as you said.

^^^ Bingo. I haven't dusted off my F&T yet, but I'll probably do that very soon. The other variants seem to suffer a much more significant reduction to blast radius when tuning for blind (looking at you, Truthteller), but I think with F&T it's not as bad. Now that I think about it, I haven't used my Fighting Lion in a while... Always having grenade ammo from the word go is a great time.

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People would just get airborne on you. You miss with your grenade shot, meanwhile they are hitting you with an SMG or Sidearm while in the air. You are so far behind when they land and you can orient yourself to shoot them that you lose the gunfight.

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People would just get airborne on you. You miss with your grenade shot, meanwhile they are hitting you with an SMG or Sidearm while in the air. You are so far behind when they land and you can orient yourself to shoot them that you lose the gunfight.

Yeah, I've been using your HC observations with the Agamid, and have had good results. With Orewing's there's not a lot of missing, though. If the round doesn't make contact, I release the trigger and get a fair bit of spash on the enemy, even mid-air. The concussion typically throws off their aim while I sprint under them and regroup. YMMV, but the very nature of the pro-pipe for me means it's one of the only Heavies I can hit people in the air with.

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My mileage definitely varries. Fusions, swords, and Shotguns are really the most effective heavies in my experience.

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My mileage definitely varries. Fusions, swords, and Shotguns are really the most effective heavies in my experience.

1v1 me then. Heavies only.

And we stream it!

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My mileage definitely varries. Fusions, swords, and Shotguns are really the most effective heavies in my experience.

1v1 me then. Heavies only.

And we stream it!

Thanks to private matches we can! But why heavies only? Real matches aren't like that.

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My mileage definitely varries. Fusions, swords, and Shotguns are really the most effective heavies in my experience.

1v1 me then. Heavies only.

And we stream it!

Thanks to private matches we can! But why heavies only? Real matches aren't like that.

LOL. LOOOOOOOOL

But I'm gonna drop a fun fact. I don't EVER get 10x killstreaks. With Orewing's it happens on a regular basis, so.

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But I'm gonna drop a fun fact. I don't EVER get 10x killstreaks. With Orewing's it happens on a regular basis, so.

If you can get a 10x kill streak against a team of me, ottermack, chaos, and argent, I'll eat a sock. Heck, I'll eat a sock if you get above 1.2 efficiency :-p

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But I'm gonna drop a fun fact. I don't EVER get 10x killstreaks. With Orewing's it happens on a regular basis, so.

If you can get a 10x kill streak against a team of me, ottermack, chaos, and argent, I'll eat a sock. Heck, I'll eat a sock if you get above 1.2 efficiency :-p

LOL, you must have been a riot at kickball. Sure, let me hand-pick a crack team and then talk shit. FOH with that. XD

We were talking about the merits of a specific weapon type. What's with the pissing match?

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We were talking about the merits of a specific weapon type. What's with the pissing match?

It was Korny's idea.

But try grenade launchers against good players in the competitive list. I think they will know how to exploit the weapon's weaknesses. They can be effective sometimes, but there's a reason they aren't seen super often. I do see Fighting Lion sometimes though.

At the end of the day it's about what works best FOR YOU though. Shotguns are probably the 'best' choice, but perhaps not for certain play styles. Certainly not mine.

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We were talking about the merits of a specific weapon type. What's with the pissing match?

It was Korny's idea.

Nope. I was challenging your ideal heavy weapons against me using a pro-pipe archetype. Strictly because you were dismissive of their usefulness compared to other heavies, and I have no doubt that I could counter any Heavy weapon that you choose.
How that lead you to try to stack a Crucible-heavy team against Mal is beyond me.

But try grenade launchers against good players in the competitive list. I think they will know how to exploit the weapon's weaknesses. They can be effective sometimes, but there's a reason they aren't seen super often.

At the end of the day it's about what works best FOR YOU though. Shotguns are probably the 'best' choice, but perhaps not for certain play styles. Certainly not mine.

I mean, it's not called the Casual-pipe.

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I mean, it's not called the Casual-pipe.

I remember when they added it to Reach and it was the noob-tube. Whether that was because it was so good even idiots could use it, or because it was only good against idiots, I’m not actually sure.

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I mean, it's not called the Casual-pipe.

I remember when they added it to Reach and it was the noob-tube. Whether that was because it was so good even idiots could use it, or because it was only good against idiots, I’m not actually sure.

Pretty sure it was because grenade launchers were generally looked down on at the time, thanks to Call of Duty, where you could stick one on your Assault Rifles to give you loads of grenade ammo that you could rack up multikills with.

It wasn't remotely that simple in Reach, but the associative hatred carried over, I feel. In fact, I think Bungie themselves coined the term "Pro-pipe" with regards to it in Reach during a vi-doc or magazine article, to allay fears that people had about it being CoD-esque.

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Pretty sure it was because grenade launchers were generally looked down on at the time, thanks to Call of Duty, where you could stick one on your Assault Rifles to give you loads of grenade ammo that you could rack up multikills with.

Exactly this. The "noob tube" moniker was because you could attach an underslung 203 to your M16 (already the dominant primary), and with the right perks, just harvest nades off of enemy bodies. You could just poonk your heart away and barely ever have to aim.

It wasn't remotely that simple in Reach, but the associative hatred carried over, I feel. In fact, I think Bungie themselves coined the term "Pro-pipe" with regards to it in Reach during a vi-doc or magazine article, to allay fears that people had about it being CoD-esque.

Right again. Reach's launcher was tough to get direct kills with, although it was aces at stopping vehicles in their tracks. Definitely one of the trickier weapons to use, but devastating in the right hands. I find splash/swap is really the best way to employ it if you don't have a reload mod active.

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I mean, it's not called the Casual-pipe.

I remember when they added it to Reach and it was the noob-tube. Whether that was because it was so good even idiots could use it, or because it was only good against idiots, I’m not actually sure.

There were two grenade launching items in Reach. I could be wrong, but I believe you are conflating them.

Pro Pipe:

Noob Tube:

[image]

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Right but you understand a real game is not heavies only right? So for you to ask for a 1v1 with only heavies is absurd. The situations in a real game, which is 4v4 by the way, are Very very different. If you are trying to experiment and discover which grenade launchers are good, you have to play with them in conditions you would find in actual games.

I am pretty confident that if a decent team sees in the feed that someone picked up a grenade launcher, that you probably won’t get a 10x streak unless you are just way better than them. Not saying they can’t be used effectively or well, but I think other heavies have more lethality and utility overall when you take all situations, game modes, and maps into account.

If they fit your preferred play style, then by all means use them!

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Right but you understand a real game is not heavies only right? So for you to ask for a 1v1 with only heavies is absurd. The situations in a real game, which is 4v4 by the way, are Very very different. If you are trying to experiment and discover which grenade launchers are good, you have to play with them in conditions you would find in actual games.

I think it'd be an even bigger advantage in actual games (I mean, Zero posted some great examples below).

I am pretty confident that if a decent team sees in the feed that someone picked up a grenade launcher, that you probably won’t get a 10x streak unless you are just way better than them. Not saying they can’t be used effectively or well, but I think other heavies have more lethality and utility overall when you take all situations, game modes, and maps into account.

I feel like it's the single-most versatile weapon type in the game. Close or long range, catching enemies by surprise or in a heated firefight, face-to-face or around corners, the pro-pipe archetype for grenade launchers can (in the right hands) have a real advantage over any other Heavy (and most primaries). When you combine it with your primary, it just becomes that much more devastating than most 1-HK weapons in Crucible.
That's something that's just not true for any other Heavy (though rockets are closest).

If they fit your preferred play style, then by all means use them!

Nice try to save face, man! I accept your apology.

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I feel like it's the single-most versatile weapon type in the game. Close or long range, catching enemies by surprise or in a heated firefight, face-to-face or around corners, the pro-pipe archetype for grenade launchers can (in the right hands) have a real advantage over any other Heavy (and most primaries). When you combine it with your primary, it just becomes that much more devastating than most 1-HK weapons in Crucible.

In my experience that's just not true. His 'splash then swap' strategy eats valuable time while you are being shot. If someone slides in or goes airborne on you, a direct hit is unlikely so you will have to settle for splash. Anyone who is mobile and aggressive will shred you. In his clips I see folks keeping their distance to challenge which is exactly what not to do against these things.

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I feel like it's the single-most versatile weapon type in the game. Close or long range, catching enemies by surprise or in a heated firefight, face-to-face or around corners, the pro-pipe archetype for grenade launchers can (in the right hands) have a real advantage over any other Heavy (and most primaries). When you combine it with your primary, it just becomes that much more devastating than most 1-HK weapons in Crucible.

In my experience that's just not true. His 'splash then swap' strategy eats valuable time while you are being shot. If someone slides in or goes airborne on you, a direct hit is unlikely so you will have to settle for splash. Anyone who is mobile and aggressive will shred you. In his clips I see folks keeping their distance to challenge which is exactly what not to do against these things.

There are quickswap weapons that help with this if you're not great with the pro-pipe and you feel like draw time is a significant factor. People in the air are less a threat against one than you think. That argument in particular is weak because nothing offers the control against airborne targets like a timed detonation.

Orewing's specifically will grant 1-HK very frequently, and when they don't, a follow up round usually does the trick. A lot of the time, the initial blast is enough to spook them into a retreat, because they know the targeted fire hasn't even begun, and they're already significantly behind. If the enemy is in range at all, including around a corner, they're in danger. It's also a great finisher for enemies that have put geometry between themselves and you in order to evade and regen. It's a threat in all types of weather.

I just don't get why you don't experiment with them yourself and see. If you won't accept anyone else's experience as viable intel, embrace the scientific method yourself. It's ok if you can't bring yourself to publicly appreciate them. I know that would be asking too much.

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I just don't get why you don't experiment with them yourself and see. If you won't accept anyone else's experience as viable intel, embrace the scientific method yourself. It's ok if you can't bring yourself to publicly appreciate them. I know that would be asking too much.

I've tried a huge variety of grenade launchers already. That's why I said in my experience I don't see them being effective, or often used by the enemy.

I play mostly in the competitive playlist on PS4, so experience may vary. But I rarely see them, and when I do, they are ineffective. I think for most people, they might be hard to use. They aren't being ignored for no reason in my opinion.

Maybe having radar makes a huge difference in how you can use them. It's a conversation worth having.

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Can someone translate?

I’m just a filthy casual who only plays a Hunter and enters the crucible only when a quest line forces me to do so. But I want to understand!

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Can someone translate?

I’m just a filthy casual who only plays a Hunter and enters the crucible only when a quest line forces me to do so. But I want to understand!

Haha, "pro-pipe" is a holdover from the Reach days. There's a breed of one-shot, breach-loading grenade launchers that generally have either a blinding or concussive effect when you hit your target. They tend to hit pretty hard and have a pretty large blast radius. And you can bank them around corners. They're a great retreat weapon if you can goad someone into chasing you.

You can hold the trigger down and strategically release it to detonate when the round is near your target, allowing for a quick one-two punch in a lot of cases, by quickly swapping to a different weapon to finish off your dazed and softened target. You can also keep the trigger down and use the round as a trap, releasing when the enemy runs over it.

Orewing's Maul is the Iron Banner pro-pipe. Truthteller comes from Dead Orbit, and Flash and Thunder is an RNG drop, if I'm not mistaken. Fighting Lion is the exotic, which takes up an Energy slot instead of Heavy, which is super handy.

In PvE, they're usually best for blinding entire groups of adds, usually as a precursor to casting a super, or dazing more mobile enemies like Wizards so you can swap to something that will let you get crits on them.

There's a significant delayed-gratification feeling to getting kills with them, and particularly when you let the rounds pop at just the right time. I also suspect they have some of the strongest physics impulses of any weapon, but I have yet to put time into testing them.

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I have yet to really experiment with grenade launchers so this piqued my interest. Thanks!

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It’s a different archetype, but try Play of the Game. It basically has grenades and horseshoes.

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Just throwing another one out there - my favorite for PvE is Berenger's memory. Proximity mines + auto-loader FTW.

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http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/zero-point-fox/video/53807141

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/zero-point-fox/video/53806842

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/zero-point-fox/video/53806877

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CRU folks are kind of ignoring pro-pipes in the meta. (Destiny)

Shhhhh! Don’t tell people or Bungie will hear!

Shhhhh! Don’t tell people or Bungie will hear!