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Tips for Gambit. (Destiny)

by cheapLEY @, Friday, October 19, 2018, 17:47 (2009 days ago)

We've had some discussions here about Gambit strategies, and I've had a few in game about the same thing.

Well, there's a good post on reddit with lots of general tips.

I'm shameless stealing it and posting it here. There's some really good advice in there. It seems sort of obvious, but Gambit is a complex gamemode where it's too easy to get focused on a single thing while ignoring something that may be important.

For those that don't want to follow the link, I'll quote the post below. I'm not the most knowledgeable or experienced Gambit player, so please add some more tips/context to this, or refute them. Gambit is an incredibly fun mode, but I've found it to be far more sweaty than I anticipated, so anything to give an edge to our Gambit players is probably worthwhile.

My notes to some of these are in bold.

Invades

  • Actively search for the invader. There are four of you and only one of him. If you have <5 motes, you should hunt for the invader.
  • If you are close to the bank when the invader arrives, just bank however many motes you have, even if it’s <5. This will make it nearly risk free to hunt for the invader.
  • Invaders can tunnel vision when using a long range weapon. Take advantage by flanking. It takes two shotgun shots to take out a full overshield invader.
  • Invaders almost always spawn where the enemy is not. This means you have a 50/50 chance of guessing correctly. If there are even two people searching for the invader, one of you will almost definitely run into him. (Invaders using Sleeper seem to really just expect players to hide. Being aggressive with a shotgun has worked pretty well for me)
  • When invading, if you don’t think you have a clear shot, don’t take it. Just existing will slow them down. Many times, people run into spawn to hide, and when they’re hiding, they can’t collect motes.
  • If you pick up the power ammo when the invasion portal is about to come up, it is now your duty to invade. Don’t just grab it and run.
  • When primeval is up, an assist counts as a kill. DEATH HEALS PRIMEVAL.
  • If you get invaded during primeval and you’re caught out, try to die on your own really quickly. This works best on Kell’s Grave map cause you can just jump off. Dying without being touched by the invader will not heal the primeval.

Motes

  • The easiest way to bank is to just bank when a new wave appears if you have 5 or more motes. It might take longer to run across the bank, but it’s faster than running to the wave, collecting more, then double backing to bank. An exception is when using a teleporter or cannon, but banking is usually a good idea anyway. (One of the roughest games I've ever played was when the enemy team just continually flooded us with small blockers. Every time we killed two, two or three more were sent over. You can send them in droves and relatively quickly, so that the other team is almost always dealing with them.)
  • Time your banks. You don’t need four guys for the last hostile. Start running back to get the blockchain going while your team finishes it off and catches up with their banks. This also starts you halfway to the next wave.
  • First wave is about 20 motes. Optimally this can be four phalanxes, but even just three phalanxes is excellent. Sending an ogre is pointless, as there’s no invasion ready yet and the enemy team will be running to the next wave at about the same time and can focus it down in like 1 second.
  • Phalanxes are annoying. Multiple phalanxes are extremely annoying. When in doubt, bank for phalanxes.
  • Knights can do a lot of damage, but are quite weak defensively. A single knight is probably worse than a phalanx, but two knights or one + ogre can output enough damage to catch someone offguard.
  • Ogres are very beefy. You should almost never be summoning ogres, but if you do, make it count – the ogre should be a tank while a knight cleans up or the phalanx disrupts for an invader.
  • Ogres become significantly more advantageous when the enemy team has primeval up and you don’t – with no invades coming, you can freely collect all the motes you want. Ogres are large and beefy enough to block shots from reaching the primeval, and the constant knockback throws off aim.
  • In general, the sum of blockers is worth much more than the individuals.
  • All factions have an explosive enemy – Incendiors, Fanatics, Hydra, Cursed Thrall, Exploder Shanks, and Screebs. Look out for these, especially fanatics, thrall, shanks, and screebs – they are designed to arrive during the middle of the wave and kill you after you have already collected motes.

Loadout

  • Explosives are effective here, especially against Vex and Hive as they like to group up. A primary with explosive rounds, timed payload, dragonfly, firefly, or Sunshot will work wonders for add clearing.
  • If you’re comfortable with multiple weapons, matching energy type to enemy shield is useful for quickly taking out the tougher enemies – they drop multiple motes. Most common shields are solar and arc, void comes with Vex and is rarely seen on Hive and Scorn.
  • That being said, Envoys have void shields so having a void weapon can be advantageous at primeval.
  • You should have a weapon for effectively taking orange bars. I prefer a shotgun, though a sniper can be effective as well.
  • Your power slot should be dedicated to either invasions or primeval. Some are flexible enough to do both (Sleeper and Whisper), these will take up your exotic slot. I use EDGE TRANSIT for envoys in case my team cannot figure out that we need to kill them.
  • Do not use a bow. If you really really really really must, at least use one with dragonfly.
  • Non-power exotics that I found effective include Sunshot, Riskrunner, Huckleberry.
  • Roaming supers are more effective for invades. Single use supers are more effective for primeval. DO NOT INVADE AND USE WELL OF RADIANCE.
  • All supers are great for add clear. As a general rule, if you start round 2 with a super, use it immediately. You’ll grab a head start for your team and will be able to recharge it by primeval anyway. Exception is if you plan to invade with it.
  • Tether (with Orpheus Rigs) is incredibly strong. If your teammate tethers a group of adds, wait for the tether to activate before killing them. Orpheus rigs orbs don’t occur until the tether does. Good tethers can lead to consecutive tethers.
  • Tethering the primeval and both envoys will generate the entire super back. A good strategy is to tether when they spawn, kill both envoys, fight off the invader, and then tether the primeval again afterwards. Then your team can unload everything into it.

Tether is seriously underutilized in Gambit, in my experience. It is extremely effective, though. Generating motes can be a game-maker, and it lets you chew through entire groups of enemies for a lot of motes quickly.

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Map Specific

  • Phalanxes are significantly more dangerous on Kell’s Grave. The bank being an island provides ample opportunity to be bumped off.
  • Knights are more dangerous on Cathedral of Scars especially if your team likes to hide in spawn during an invasion or primeval. Their fire can block off the arches for an escape or shooting lane.
  • The teleporter on Cathedral can be accessed from both sides.
  • The drill in Legion’s Folly can kill you. Personal experience.
  • Be careful taking the teleporters in Legion’s Folly. It spits you out in the middle of the adds. Don’t teleport without an escape plan, even if that plan is to kill everything around you.
  • The Vex milk on Legion’s procs Riskrunner.
  • The tunnels under the bank in Emerald Coast are a good place to hide if you’re being invaded. It’s difficult to snipe into there and you can camp with a shotgun. Just remember it takes 2 hits to kill through overshield.
  • There is a really shitty invader spawn on Emerald Coast. It’s at the corner between trees and ruins, around the left building. There’s no cover for the invader to run left. Running right only provides small tree cover.
  • Spawn in Emerald Coast is a terrible place to hide. There's a clear sniping lane all the way from ruins. In general, Emerald Coast is a very open map and one where it is absolutely necessary to hunt the invader.
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A recommendation

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Saturday, October 20, 2018, 07:58 (2009 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I'm sure the group I play with is sick of me proselytizing for it, but an exotic I find VERY useful in Gambit is Coldheart. It has more range and ammo than a shotgun and absolutely melts yellow bars. Plus if you need to do some quick clean up you can kill clumped up enemies really well, and it has great DPS against the Primeval as well. I even often use it against aggressive Invaders since I can outrange their shotguns. It's not the best weapon in any one category but it's great at almost everything. Highly recommend giving it a shot.

+1

by TheeChaos @, Saturday, October 20, 2018, 17:47 (2008 days ago) @ Xenos

Definitely love the trace rifles for Gambit. They have tons of ammo, and melt.

I got the new WaveSplitter(void version), and its a beast. If you run over orbs it reloads the gun and gives it full strength for a seconds.

Trace Rifles are good against invaders as well.

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Auto-win for Kell's Grave:

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Saturday, October 20, 2018, 09:41 (2008 days ago) @ cheapLEY

One Thousand Voices, get the heavy, invade. You guys thought Sleeper was bad? You haven't seen anything.

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More Tips for Gambit.

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Saturday, October 20, 2018, 12:32 (2008 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by CruelLEGACEY, Saturday, October 20, 2018, 12:57

I've been meaning to write a post on this topic for a while :)

There are a lot of good suggestions in the OP, but I have a different take on some points. I won't go through a thorough breakdown of my own... instead, I'll give an example of my thought process as a match plays out.

Gambit is a race

Everything I do during a Gambit match is done with speed and efficiency in mind. I am always keeping track of time along 2 dimensions: how much time am I spending, and how much time am I costing the other team? This equation is always running in my head, and it leads me to some conclusions that might go against the common strategies. For example, I believe that going out of your way to bank 5 motes for a small blocker is almost always a waste of time. That's not to say that I never do it. There are scenarios where banking 5 motes is the least inefficient option in front of me, but I don't think that planning in advance to bank 5 motes is the best use of time. Why? Because the time I spend running back to the middle with 5 motes in hand is time that I could have spent killing more ads quickly, securing more total motes for my team faster, and keeping my teammates safer so that everyone could move as quickly as possible. The time that it costs me to run back with only 5 motes in hand is greater than the time it will take the enemy team to kill a small blocker.

That digression aside, let's start at the beginning of a match.

The initial rush at the start of a game of Gambit is crucial. You absolutely want your team to be the first to invade, because the first invasion is one of the greatest opportunities in the whole match to rob the enemy team of the most motes possible.

My Gambit loadout is a No Turning Back bow, IKELOS shotgun, and Sleeper. I'll usually begin a match by hanging out near the middle of the map, killing ads from a distance with my bow. I can usually get 5-6 kills before my teammates have reached the enemy spawn zone, meaning there will already be motes for them to start picking up right from the start. Ideally, I want 2 teammates focusing on picking up motes while my 4th teammate and I hang back and kill ads. I will also take out any small blockers that get sent our way (With my Ikelos shotgun, I can take out a small blocker in 1-2 seconds. Hence my opinion that they are generally not worth the time it takes to summon them).

Ideally, the mote collectors on my team should be coordinating so that one of them gets 15 motes ASAP and rushed to bank them. By about that point, the 2nd wave of enemies should be arriving. I'll turn and start picking them off while the rest of my team is still running to bank or collect motes. I'll often run over to the 2nd wave and pick up a few motes myself. Remember, the priority is to invade the enemy team before they invade us. So at this point, I'm looking at at how many motes my whole team has collectively banked/picked up. If we already have 15 banked and the other mote runner is holding 10, I'll be telling them to bank immediately. If they're still running around collecting a few from the first wave or are on their way to the 2nd wave, I'll try to get 10 as quick as possible so I can bank and hit that 25 mote threshold. In any scenario, I want to be back near the bank as we're dumping in the motes needed to hit 25, because Power ammo will be spawning at about this time. So I'm either banking what I have or covering my teammate while they bank, grabbing power ammo, and invading immediately.

If all of this goes relatively well, I'll invade the enemy team while they're stuck carrying 15-25 motes between them. This is the best position an invader can find themselves in, because the players carrying motes are going to be too concerned about protecting their motes to aggressively hunt me down. With any luck, I'll take out 3 or 4 of them. At the very least, I'll make sure I take out the enemy carrying the most motes (1 of them will often have 15 at this point).

This can all have a huge impact on the rest of the round. While I'm invading the enemy team, they aren't banking any motes, they're potentially losing the motes they've picked up, and my team is busy collecting more motes. By the time I return to my side, one of my teammates will probably be close to depositing another 15 motes. Another quick 10, and I can invade again, all before the enemy team has had time to recover and get an invader of their own across. If they do manage to send and invader, I will aggressively hunt them down. This is another reason why I prefer to only have 2 guardians at a time focusing on mote collection. If there are at least 2 of us who can actively attack an enemy invader without risk of losing any motes, we will usually be able to stop them before they do any real damage.

There is one other thing I want to mention here, as a general thought. A lot of people will say "when the Drifter tells you that you have enough motes to summon a Primeval, drop everything and bank right away!". I don't agree with this. At least, not in every case. I've played rounds where several players on my team were holding a few motes when we hit the total needed to summon a boss. If all of us have 3-4 motes, that's a scenario where IMO it's actually worth taking the extra few seconds needed to get everyone up to 5 motes, then rush back and bank all together. This buys your team time to quickly clear out the weaker enemies that spawn along with the Primeval, before you get invaded. I find it much easier to spot and stop the invader if you aren't getting shot from a million directions all at once. Invasions during the boss phase are another point that can make or break a round, so stopping invaders is crucial.

On that point, always invade the enemy team ASAP once they've summoned their Primeval. I've pulled off some incredible comebacks thanks to late-game invasions. Just yesterday, I reached a moment where both teams were fighting their respective bosses, when I saw that the enemy team's boss health bar started to drop, fast. Our portal opened, and I invaded. Their boss was down to about 1/4 health. I got 2 quick kills with my sleeper, popped my super, and killed the remaining 2 players with my hammers. Their boss's health was back up over 50% as I got teleported back to my side, giving me enough time to use the rest of my hammers to kill my Primeval.

Even if your late-game invasions don't go that well, you will at the very least take the enemy team's attention away from damaging their boss, giving your team time to gain ground.

That's all I've got for now... I was thinking I might live stream some gambit at some point in the near future. Would that be of interest to anyone?

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More Tips for Gambit.

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Saturday, October 20, 2018, 18:23 (2008 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

Gambit is a race

Everything I do during a Gambit match is done with speed and efficiency in mind. I am always keeping track of time along 2 dimensions: how much time am I spending, and how much time am I costing the other team?

You know, this is exactly it. If by the time you wrap up the first wave and bank the Heavy has already spawned, you're taking too long. Fastest I could do with my usual team is one and a half waves before Heavy. If you bank for the first time and the timer says 0:25 or something close, you're golden.

Get a feel for your team. If you think they can kill adds fast enough, bank those 5, you won't slow them down so much.

There is one other thing I want to mention here, as a general thought. A lot of people will say "when the Drifter tells you that you have enough motes to summon a Primeval, drop everything and bank right away!". I don't agree with this. At least, not in every case. I've played rounds where several players on my team were holding a few motes when we hit the total needed to summon a boss. If all of us have 3-4 motes, that's a scenario where IMO it's actually worth taking the extra few seconds needed to get everyone up to 5 motes, then rush back and bank all together. This buys your team time to quickly clear out the weaker enemies that spawn along with the Primeval, before you get invaded. I find it much easier to spot and stop the invader if you aren't getting shot from a million directions all at once. Invasions during the boss phase are another point that can make or break a round, so stopping invaders is crucial.

I've found that we're racing to kill the Envoys. Once that's done, we can totally chill for almost a full minute and just pick off invaders and invade ourselves leisurely. No use wasting Supers and Heavies before the multiplier is at least x5 on the off-chance an invader gets lucky and heals it all back.

In fact, get the Envoys ASAP and them spread out to catch those pesky invaders by surprise. They tend to tunnel vision people close to the bank area, so if you're all spread out, they'll have a hard time preventing flanking.

On that point, always invade the enemy team ASAP once they've summoned their Primeval. I've pulled off some incredible comebacks thanks to late-game invasions. Just yesterday, I reached a moment where both teams were fighting their respective bosses, when I saw that the enemy team's boss health bar started to drop, fast. Our portal opened, and I invaded. Their boss was down to about 1/4 health. I got 2 quick kills with my sleeper, popped my super, and killed the remaining 2 players with my hammers. Their boss's health was back up over 50% as I got teleported back to my side, giving me enough time to use the rest of my hammers to kill my Primeval.

Even if your late-game invasions don't go that well, you will at the very least take the enemy team's attention away from damaging their boss, giving your team time to gain ground.

One thing my team used to think was that it only made sense to invade once their Primeval had a chunk of health taken away. We later figured out it is even better to invade ASAP and delay the death of the Envoys for as long as possible. As you've said, just by being there you're already delaying at least one of them anyway.

That's all I've got for now... I was thinking I might live stream some gambit at some point in the near future. Would that be of interest to anyone?

Very much, yes. I'll see if my team can set one up too. We've been stomping pretty hard lately and I'm sure we could both use some pointers and give some of you some cool ideas.

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More Tips for Gambit.

by cheapLEY @, Saturday, October 20, 2018, 20:05 (2008 days ago) @ ZackDark

One thing my team used to think was that it only made sense to invade once their Primeval had a chunk of health taken away. We later figured out it is even better to invade ASAP and delay the death of the Envoys for as long as possible. As you've said, just by being there you're already delaying at least one of them anyway.

That can work, but it can bite you in the ass, too. If your team is behind, basically just ignore the envoys. The other team killing their envoys will also give your team a x2, which is enough to burn the boss pretty quickly with melting point and blade barrage, sleeper and whisper, or boop cannon and spectral blades. Send an invader over and then hit the boss instead of wasting time with the envoys.

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More Tips for Gambit.

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Saturday, October 20, 2018, 21:19 (2008 days ago) @ cheapLEY

That can work, but it can bite you in the ass, too. If your team is behind, basically just ignore the envoys. The other team killing their envoys will also give your team a x2, which is enough to burn the boss pretty quickly with melting point and blade barrage, sleeper and whisper, or boop cannon and spectral blades. Send an invader over and then hit the boss instead of wasting time with the envoys.

But if you're following all of your advises, why would we even be behind? ;p

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Tips for Gambit.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, October 27, 2018, 14:25 (2001 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by Cody Miller, Saturday, October 27, 2018, 14:28

In this order:

Summon Primeval. Kill the wizards. Kill the ads. Kill the invader. Then unleash your supers and burn the Primeval in like 4 seconds when they can’t invade. Repeat next round.

Invading to heal the Primeval does not work. It’ll be burnt to the ground right after you go back. You should do whatever you can to protect those wizards as an invader. It’s the only realistic way to slow the other team down.

Change my mind.

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Tips for Gambit.

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Saturday, October 27, 2018, 14:34 (2001 days ago) @ Cody Miller

In this order:

Summon Primeval. Kill the wizards. Kill the ads. Kill the invader. Then unleash your supers and burn the Primeval in like 4 seconds when they can’t invade. Repeat next round.

Invading to heal the Primeval does not work. It’ll be burnt to the ground right after you go back. You should do whatever you can to protect those wizards as an invader. It’s the only realistic way to slow the other team down.

Change my mind.

I think I've got a video saved that'll change your mind... I'll check when I get home :)

Here's the thing... If you invade and kill the enemy team, or at least keep them occupied, that's time that they're not spending killing the wizards. If the wizards are already dead, then that's still 30 seconds that the enemy is dealing with you and not their primeval.

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Tips for Gambit.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, October 27, 2018, 14:37 (2001 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

In this order:

Summon Primeval. Kill the wizards. Kill the ads. Kill the invader. Then unleash your supers and burn the Primeval in like 4 seconds when they can’t invade. Repeat next round.

Invading to heal the Primeval does not work. It’ll be burnt to the ground right after you go back. You should do whatever you can to protect those wizards as an invader. It’s the only realistic way to slow the other team down.

Change my mind.


I think I've got a video saved that'll change your mind... I'll check when I get home :)

Here's the thing... If you invade and kill the enemy team, or at least keep them occupied, that's time that they're not spending killing the wizards. If the wizards are already dead, then that's still 30 seconds that the enemy is dealing with you and not their primeval.

That change my mind was real. Because I am very bad at gambit :-(

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Tips for Gambit.

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Saturday, October 27, 2018, 14:43 (2001 days ago) @ Cody Miller

In this order:

Summon Primeval. Kill the wizards. Kill the ads. Kill the invader. Then unleash your supers and burn the Primeval in like 4 seconds when they can’t invade. Repeat next round.

Invading to heal the Primeval does not work. It’ll be burnt to the ground right after you go back. You should do whatever you can to protect those wizards as an invader. It’s the only realistic way to slow the other team down.

Change my mind.


I think I've got a video saved that'll change your mind... I'll check when I get home :)

Here's the thing... If you invade and kill the enemy team, or at least keep them occupied, that's time that they're not spending killing the wizards. If the wizards are already dead, then that's still 30 seconds that the enemy is dealing with you and not their primeval.


That change my mind was real. Because I am very bad at gambit :-(

You’re absolutely right that if the enemy team has their wizards down and they’re attacking the Primeval with heavies and supers, it’s gonna melt in a few seconds. An invasion might only buy you a few extra seconds. In a close game though, that can make a difference.

Last week, I invaded a team who had gotten their Primeval down to its last 1/4 health. I killed 2 of them with Sleeper, then popped my super and killed the other 2 with hammers. While this was happening, my team was damaging our Primeval. By the time I got warped back to my side, our Primeval was down to roughly 1/2 health, and the enemy team’s Primeval was now above that. Plus my super was still active, which I used to kill our Primeval.

That is certainly not an everyday outcome. But in a close game, a last-minute invasion can make all the difference :)

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Some clips to change your mind :)

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Saturday, October 27, 2018, 17:39 (2001 days ago) @ Cody Miller

This first one shows my teammates repeatedly invading and healing the Primeval while we come back from waaaaay behind:

https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/nevindouglas/video/62678729

And this is the one I mentioned to you earlier (featuring some truly terrible Sleeper shots on my part, lol)

https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/nevindouglas/video/62678722

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