Trials of Osiris/The Nine are effectively dead. Poop.

So Bungie released a new THAB yesterday, where they stated that they're currently at a loss about what to do with endgame PvP activities, but Trials will remain shelved for the foreseeable future:

As longtime Destiny players know, Trials of Osiris was released in May of 2015 as the original high-stakes weekend PvP event. Trials had an amazing impact on our game and our community. It was a pinnacle venue for players to show off their best skills, strategies, and gear. The 3v3 elimination mode combined with the card system created the coveted reward of earning a trip to the Lighthouse.

With the introduction of Trials of the Nine in Destiny 2, we made a few changes to the formula which never really hit the same mark. We were unhappy with its role in the ecosystem. The new activity wasn’t achieving the goal of bringing the community together every weekend. Both Destiny and the online PvP scene have evolved since 2015, so we don’t believe that bringing back the 2015 version of Trials of Osiris would accomplish what our goals are today.

Until we have a solid prototype for a pinnacle PvP endgame activity, Trials is staying on hiatus indefinitely and will not return over the course of the next few seasons. When we have those new plans ready, we’ll be sure to share them with you.

If you remember, only five months after the game launched, Trials of the Nine had half the unique player count (77.8k) of D1's worst weekend of Trials of Osiris (145k), so rather than improve upon it or revert the gametype to what it once was, they simply ditched it, made some vague statements about the Trials Tokens that you had to spend, and left it at that (on the same post where they talked about improving Faction Rallies and pointed out how they were working on how to make the Catalysts available, no less).

So yeh. Looks like for the next year or so, Apex Legends will be the best Endgame PvP experience for those who loved Trials. I mean, the pinnacle weapons provide a nice distraction, but I'm personally really bummed about it, since Trials was easily the most exciting element of Destiny, gameplay and teamwork wise (though the MIDA teamshot meta killed a lot of the strategy involved).
I wish they could have brought it back through the Crucible Labs, but I haven't heard about that in a while either...

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I didn't ever even enter Trials in D1. I enjoyed the first few weekends of it in D2.

I've loved Crucible since Forsaken, and I've been looking forward to jumping into Trials when it returns.

I'll admit that I just don't understand this. I know game development is hard, and a balance of many different things. But it seems like a no-brainer to just bring 3v3 Elimination Trials back. They have an obvious problem in the lack of a real endgame PvP activity, and a super obvious solution of just bringing back the D1 version of Trials that was basically universally praised.

What are they thinking?

This is the sort of non-communication that I find frustrating. I'm not asking for their deepest secrets, just to understand what they are actually thinking. They wrote three whole paragraphs and managed to say nothing at all besides "We're not bringing Trials back." The rest of that statement is such vague nonsense that I'm not sure why they bothered saying anything at all.

So, Apex later?

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People have understandably taken issue with Bungie saying that Trials didn't "line up with their goals for PvP", while not stating over the past year what those goals actually are, and asked for some of that communication that Bungie has often promised.

dmg04 asked one person requesting info, "When asking for increased communications, what would you like to see?"

People replied with sincere requests for better communication about clarifying Bungie's goals for PvP, since the TWAB is beyond vague and doesn't try to clarify anything.

dmg04 simply replied with two quotes from the very TWAB that was confusing people, before dipping out of the conversation entirely to make more tired bread jokes.

Bravo, Bungie. That's exactly what people hoped for. A+ community manager.

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It's a comparison that everyone here is probably tired of hearing about, but I can't help but think about Warframe.

I saw Steve Sinclair's tweets yesterday about combining the shooting and sword modes of Warframe (which looks fucking awesome), and explaining about why that means the dedicated block button had to be left behind. Bungie would have probably just not even commented on that, much less explained it, and then when questioned about, they'd say it didn't line up with their goals for the game and never talked about it again.

I get that letting fans into design decisions isn't always the right move to make, as too many people take mentions of any sort of plans or features as explicit promises of them. But sometimes letting fans in and actually explaining the process is the right thing, and might actually lead to a little understanding about why things we want aren't feasible, or why they might take longer than we want. Why Bungie finds that so difficult is baffling to me.

And, look, if they don't actually want to communicate with us, I genuinely understand that, and I can even respect it. If the end of the discussion is Bungie saying "We make games the way we want to make them, simple as that," I would respect that and never say another word.

But if they're going to continue to pretend like they're giving us actual conversations while actually giving us vague nonsense, I'm going to continue to bitch about it. They can't pretend to be effectively communicating with the community while also actually saying precisely nothing.

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It's a comparison that everyone here is probably tired of hearing about, but I can't help but think about Warframe.

I saw Steve Sinclair's tweets yesterday about combining the shooting and sword modes of Warframe (which looks fucking awesome), and explaining about why that means the dedicated block button had to be left behind. Bungie would have probably just not even commented on that, much less explained it, and then when questioned about, they'd say it didn't line up with their goals for the game and never talked about it again.

The bigger thing is to look at how many people Steve and Rebecca directly reply to on those tweets.
On an earlier showcase of the new melee, one player expressed displeasure with the change, and Steve replied to him:

Want to be honest with you - we're trying to blend away that 'melee is a mode' and not sure 'pure melee player' is well served with this. It is different and fresh and I will read and digest your feedback and hope you will find something to love in new polish and streamlining.
— Steve Sinclair (@sj_sinclair) February 13, 2019

Clarifying their goals, Bungie.

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Yes, that's a perfect example.

That player may hate the new system and abandon the game because of it. That would be unfortunate, but, ultimately, the developers are the ones that are making the game--they get to make what they want.

But, hopefully, that player will at least understand why the change was made, what they were trying to accomplish, and why, ultimately the game will no longer be something that player might enjoy.

If Trials isn't coming back, fine. That sucks, but there is potentially a good reason for it. I would love to actually know what that reason is, though. And I'd like to know if there's any real chance that Trials will come back in the foreseeable future, or will it be D3 before we see it again. Bungie is really good about not taking anything off the table, but then not actually doing anything.

Look at SRL. I understand why it's not in the game. Seems like, at the end of the day, not that many people really engaged with it, and it doesn't make sense to put the resources into it. Fine. Say that instead of being coy about it. Players will understand that, if they actually state it in plain language.

Anyway, I'm done ranting, I guess. I love Destiny still. I'm eager to see what we're going to get in Season of the Drifter (although it's going to have to be good to compete with Apex right now). I just get frustrated at this so-called "communication." Either actually be open, or quit bothering, because the thing they're doing now isn't benefiting anyone and feels like a colossal waste of everybody's time.

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...and that's because it was the last day of the event. I stopped paying attention to D1 at that point. My only Destiny regret was not playing more SRL.

There's a lot unsaid in the metrics when your data can only come from people playing your game and your game simultaneously has a population drop-off issue.

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Yes, that's a perfect example.

That player may hate the new system and abandon the game because of it. That would be unfortunate, but, ultimately, the developers are the ones that are making the game--they get to make what they want.

But, hopefully, that player will at least understand why the change was made, what they were trying to accomplish, and why, ultimately the game will no longer be something that player might enjoy.

Because DE, they created an optional setting just for that type of player. When "we're listening" actually means something.

Guh! The VFX team's new melee FX have made me pregnant. Dev workshop Friday w/details for 2.9 roll-out (spoiler: its awesome but expect some relearning). Gun/Glaive works now, if you rebound melee attack there will be an option just for you & much more based on your feedback.⚔️ pic.twitter.com/pzE7ZVyWSx
— Steve Sinclair (@sj_sinclair) February 21, 2019

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What ever happened to Bungie Aerospace?

Serious question, btw.

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What ever happened to Bungie Aerospace?

It didn't line up with their goals for helping smaller indie devs, but they'll have more information about that when it becomes available.

Serious question, btw.

Not a serious reply, but I couldn't resist. :P

We've actually discussed this elsewhere. We figured Bungie's issues with Destiny projections and realities put a halt to their own plans, and given how they are without a publisher, and with tepid sales of their own project, it may be a while before we see anything else come of it. I don't imagine that Crimson Steam Pirates was a smash success story either, so that probably didn't help or encourage other devs.

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I don't imagine that Crimson Steam Pirates was a smash success story either, so that probably didn't help or encourage other devs.

I liked that game, for what it was. But, yeah, you're probably right.

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We've actually discussed this elsewhere. We figured Bungie's issues with Destiny projections and realities put a halt to their own plans, and given how they are without a publisher, and with tepid sales of their own project, it may be a while before we see anything else come of it. I don't imagine that Crimson Steam Pirates was a smash success story either, so that probably didn't help or encourage other devs.

Ah - sorry - I missed that thread. I did enjoy the pirate game for a bit.

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What ever happened to Bungie Aerospace?

Serious question, btw.

Nothing. Serious answer.

One game bore its name, and it was a shitty mobile game with microtransactions.

http://halo.bungie.net/projects/aerospace/crimson/content.aspx?link=crimson_about

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I'm shocked it isn't apparent why it didn't work out…

The mode was exactly the same as the competitive playlist, and now that playlist adds things to work for such as the unique weapons. Trials in Destiny was wholly unique.

Countdown games take forever.

I don't think the trials weapons were very coveted, unlike several in Destiny.

I wonder why they don't simply TRY to do 3v3 elimination with unlimited revives like before.

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I don't get it..... the original version of trials of Osiris was amazing?

Sometimes things do not require iteration or changes, just literally bring back trials, 3v3, the way it was in D1.

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I don't get it..... the original version of trials of Osiris was amazing?

Sometimes things do not require iteration or changes, just literally bring back trials, 3v3, the way it was in D1.

Sometimes it really feels like Bungie is afraid to bring back things without making them new

I miss prison of elders for example.

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I don't get it..... the original version of trials of Osiris was amazing?

Sometimes things do not require iteration or changes, just literally bring back trials, 3v3, the way it was in D1.

Sometimes it really feels like Bungie is afraid to bring back things without making them new

I miss prison of elders for example.

And the funny thing is that Age of Triumph was simply a re-release of old content, but with a few new challenges and ornaments to chase, and people loved it! It was one of the best-received additions to D2, and some of those ornaments had so much imagination to them, that the game's fantasy elements really shone.

Weirder still is the way Bungie introduced the Infinite Forest early into D2, which completely opened the floodgates for an in-universe return to older content... And it was promptly abandoned until the Haunted Forest event late last year.

Hopefully, with their split from Activision, Bungie will be more open to reintroduce D1 content as "Infinite Forest" content. Surely it is less resource intensive than making all new content by Fall. If they bother to communicate the need to do so, players will understand. Everyone wanted them split from Activision, so rehashed content for a more unified experience would be just fine, a small price to pay.

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I don't get it..... the original version of trials of Osiris was amazing?

Sometimes things do not require iteration or changes, just literally bring back trials, 3v3, the way it was in D1.

I don't understand why people think that they can actually bring back trials the way it was in D1. Destiny as we have it right now is a completely different beast. You can just tack on D1 Trials to D2 crucible. It just doesn't work that way...

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- No text -

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I don't get it..... the original version of trials of Osiris was amazing?

Sometimes things do not require iteration or changes, just literally bring back trials, 3v3, the way it was in D1.

I don't understand why people think that they can actually bring back trials the way it was in D1. Destiny as we have it right now is a completely different beast. You can just tack on D1 Trials to D2 crucible. It just doesn't work that way...

I wouldn’t expect it to be exactly like D1, but I would love to try it. It would very likely be preferable to scrapping the mode completely, IMO.

If I had to guess, I’d say that a motivating factor that hasn’t been mentioned is that they’re probably worried that reintroducing Trias wold cannibalize what’s left of the Comp player base. The comp playlist is already a train wreck due largely to low population. Trials might exacerbate that issue.

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Make Luna’s Howl, Not Forgotten, and The Mountaintop new Trials weapons and then just kill the Comp playlist. Problem solved.

See? Designing games is easy. (:

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I don't get it..... the original version of trials of Osiris was amazing?

Sometimes things do not require iteration or changes, just literally bring back trials, 3v3, the way it was in D1.

I don't understand why people think that they can actually bring back trials the way it was in D1. Destiny as we have it right now is a completely different beast. You can just tack on D1 Trials to D2 crucible. It just doesn't work that way...

I wouldn’t expect it to be exactly like D1, but I would love to try it. It would very likely be preferable to scrapping the mode completely, IMO.

If I had to guess, I’d say that a motivating factor that hasn’t been mentioned is that they’re probably worried that reintroducing Trias wold cannibalize what’s left of the Comp player base. The comp playlist is already a train wreck due largely to low population. Trials might exacerbate that issue.

All good points. But what about any of the lore attached to the Nine, and the Emissary? Huge loose ends, that were never particularly well-defined in the first place.

Maybe they just didn't want to keep flirting with the canon endgame.

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I mean, at this point, who cares?

Letting lore get in the way of a compelling reason to the play the game seems silly. Call it the Trials of Fenchurch for all I care. Just bring it back.

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Not loose ends. Just part of a story that we haven't gotten to yet. Remember, an Emissary of the Nine was recently seen plotting with Mara Sov about moving some sort of asset into position presumably to combat the approaching fleet of Pyramid Ships.

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Thinking back, Destiny has been pretty good about managing its "loose ends" and turning them into actual plot:

The Iron Lords - Their story started in D1 as nothing more than a few named guns. We eventually got Rise of Iron and a bunch of neat lore about how these early heroes saved the Earth from Risen Warlords and helped found The City.

Crota & Oryx - Mentioned in passing at the end of that one D1 mission with the black sphere that we exploded, both these Hive Gods formed the basis of some really good content and Raids.

Rasputin - The story of this lost Warmind has been weaved through pretty much all of Destiny's lore. Rasputin fought the Darkness, probably attacked the Traveler to prevent it from fleeing, killed the majority of the Iron Lords, was the thing the Eliksni House of Devils was searching for in the Cosmodrome, and has now (as of Warmind) fully reawakened and promised to defend humanity... in whatever way he decides is best.

The Cabal Emperor - That the Cabal had signaled their emperor was just a sentence of two of dialogue at the end of a D1 mission. Ghaul and the Red Legion emerged in D2 to be the first major campaign.

Mara Sov, Prince Uldren, and the Awoken - Characters who were in just a few minor cutscenes in D1 have now become some of the most important and interesting characters in all of Destiny. And the origins of the Awoken form a well written second great lore book at least equal to that of the Hive's origin story in the Books of Sorrow.

The Exo Stranger - A character that was (wrongly, in my opinion) seen by many as a joke has continued to receive lore attention throughout almost every single release of D1 and D2. Most recently, Mara Sov hinted directly in-game at an alliance between herself and the Exo Stranger just before the former left her throne room to begin the next segment of her war on the Darkness. Far from forgotten, the Exo Stranger may end up playing a major role in Destiny as soon as this fall.

The Ahamkara - Like the Iron Lords, the Ahamakra were first hinted at through item and armor names in D1. There were hints here and there along the way to the true nature of the Ahamkara, and finally with Forsaken, we got to see an Ahamkara and learn more about their history.

Osiris - The somewhat mythical Warlock was finally revealed in full in his own expansion where we found he'd been away battling the Vex across many different simulated timelines.

Saint-14, Ana Bray, Shin Malphur, and other off-screen legendary Guardians have also come back up in lore and occasionally in-game. Following the rise and fall of the order of Titan Sunbreakers from before the Battle of Twilight Gap to their supposed demise during Ghaul's attack on The City is pretty interesting, for instance.

Looking at the history of Destiny's stories, no one can be faulted for wishing some of these things came up sooner, and some of them (like Osiris) deserved more attention that they eventually got, but all in all Destiny has an exceptional track record of shining the spotlight on the little story bits it previously hinted at.

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Trials of Osiris/The Nine are effectively dead. Poop. (Destiny)

That's a bummer.

It gets better...

It gets better...

It gets better...

It gets better...

I played SRL for one day...

Quick little update...

Speaking of things not spoken about

Speaking of things not spoken about

Speaking of things not spoken about

Speaking of things not spoken about

Speaking of things not spoken about