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In the before time, before Reddit (Destiny)

by Revenant1988 ⌂ @, How do I forum?, Saturday, March 16, 2019, 07:35 (269 days ago)

So, I'm pretty sure this has been brought up around these parts before but reading this about BioWare on kotaku really reminded me of how much things have changed with developer-community interaction.

The comments are interesting for both sides, with those complaining about corporate shills etc but I never, ever felt that way with Bungie back in the day, posting on the bnet or when they'd drop by HBO, or even the rarer occasions on DBO. I'll also add I don't feel that way about them today, but things are different.

It was awesome. You get to know the people. You get invested. Yes, the *company*, the *publisher* are here to make $$$. But the devs? To me, they're artists. They're people who are putting their creative soul into something to share. I've had the pleasure of meeting some, some are friends that made it to work *at* these studios. Putting a face to it changes it.

But that drop off was real.

That toxicity in the community is real.

I totally get why they'd then avoid direct channels with the fans. Fandom is such bullshit sometimes. On the positive side, you get superfans like Claude who build places like this that are an oasis and special. On the other end of the spectrum, you get entitled man-babies and weebs who feel like they're owed something.

That's it I guess. Just musing about days past.

Hope Destiny is treatin' you all well! :)

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In the before time, before Reddit

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, March 16, 2019, 10:15 (269 days ago) @ Revenant1988

Bungie got plenty of shit from fans back on the newsgroups days… I mean, the Marathon Infinity Box Acronym was a series of swears leveled at them by a customer.

I think the only difference is sheer number. More good, but also more bad.

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In the before time, before Reddit

by Harmanimus @, Saturday, March 16, 2019, 14:14 (268 days ago) @ Cody Miller

There is also a shift in perspective in a lot of places about the value of fan feedback and how to interpret the increased volume of data. I think there is a lot more memetic harshness than you used to see where most communities were less visually centralized.

It was a lot easier to disregard the vocal mudslinging when it was limited to isolated forums and small social circles. Now you have massive confluences of different groups all bleeding into each other. Reddit being the possible ur-example of that effect.

So, definitely the numbers, but with all that data many developers are working to figure out how to both interact with the volume and to retrieve value out of it.

I see a lot of complaints about Bungie saying "we're listening to your feedback" (I mean, it's become a meme on its own) and people being mad that it doesn't lead to immediate implementations. Because sometimes that feedback might not line up with hard numerical data on their end, and folk won't give the benefit that perhaps their perspective is narrow and anecdotal and not supported by vast measurable data. This last part has always been there, though.

And then people make comparisons to developers with either a much more narrowly focused game or an entirely different (often both in size and temperament) fan base. /rant

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In the before time, before Reddit

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Saturday, March 16, 2019, 18:19 (268 days ago) @ Harmanimus

folk won't give the benefit that perhaps their perspective is narrow and anecdotal and not supported by vast measurable data.

If that behavior ever finds its way into the real world we're going to be in big trouble!

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Pff. Have you heard of “politics”?

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Saturday, March 16, 2019, 18:30 (268 days ago) @ stabbim

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Yes, and it is terrifying.

by Quirel, Tuesday, March 19, 2019, 21:23 (265 days ago) @ Ragashingo

So terrifying, I think it's forbidden to speak of on this server. It might cause eyeless and soulless things to gaze in our direction.

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Eyeless soulessness is the least of the worries.

by Harmanimus @, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 01:15 (265 days ago) @ Quirel

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In the before time, before Reddit

by Revenant1988 ⌂ @, How do I forum?, Saturday, March 16, 2019, 17:34 (268 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Bungie got plenty of shit from fans back on the newsgroups days… I mean, the Marathon Infinity Box Acronym was a series of swears leveled at them by a customer.

I think the only difference is sheer number. More good, but also more bad.

I'm sure that's a factor, and maybe it's just me getting older too.

Eh. Overall, fandom in general feels like it's gotten worse for me.

As for gaming and the developer\community relationship, it feels like gamers and devs are suffering, while publishers and their investors profit. I can't imagine this culture is sustainable forever.

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In the before time, before Reddit

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, March 17, 2019, 01:50 (268 days ago) @ Revenant1988

Bungie got plenty of shit from fans back on the newsgroups days… I mean, the Marathon Infinity Box Acronym was a series of swears leveled at them by a customer.

I think the only difference is sheer number. More good, but also more bad.


I'm sure that's a factor, and maybe it's just me getting older too.

Eh. Overall, fandom in general feels like it's gotten worse for me.

As for gaming and the developer\community relationship, it feels like gamers and devs are suffering, while publishers and their investors profit. I can't imagine this culture is sustainable forever.

There is one other thing…

Game developers are increasingly hostile towards players with abusive design decisions. Makes sense they’d be more upset when games or parts of games are literally designed to exploit you.

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In the before time, before Reddit

by Harmanimus @, Sunday, March 17, 2019, 11:49 (268 days ago) @ Cody Miller

One person’s “abusive design” is another one’s “engaging content”

(It isn’t clear cut and those styles of designs are not new)

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In the before time, before Reddit

by Durandal, Sunday, March 17, 2019, 14:22 (267 days ago) @ Revenant1988

I think the rise of streamers and youtube has created a kind of herd mentality. These players opinions are greatly amplified by their fans, who often become more extreme in the retelling. Then there is the other issue where these self appointed herd leaders need something interesting to maintain their herd, so they burn through content at astounding rates and thus cause developers to implement time gates and large grinds to partition off content so these leaders won't drive customers away due to lack of content.

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Streamers are the worst thing to happen to video games.

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, March 17, 2019, 15:21 (267 days ago) @ Durandal

They’re fucking poison to industry.

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Agreed.

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, March 17, 2019, 16:13 (267 days ago) @ cheapLEY

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