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bungl so smrt (Destiny)

by Morpheus @, High Charity, Tuesday, March 19, 2019, 21:43 (1836 days ago)

Seriously. What...the...shit.

This was just the final two minutes. The WHOLE GAME was like this. I did not get a single brick the entire game.

Would you like to know the sound I made at the end of the game? I don't play with my mic plugged in unless I'm with friends, so I wasn't able to record it. However, I found a video that can approximate a recreation of the sound I made at the end of the game!

This is the sound I made at the end of the game.

Should I see a doctor?

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bungl so smrt

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 06:18 (1836 days ago) @ Morpheus

Seriously. What...the...shit.

This was just the final two minutes. The WHOLE GAME was like this. I did not get a single brick the entire game.

So you carry two Special weapons, kill three whole minor enemies in the last two minutes of the game, and you wonder why you don't get ammo?

200-IQ play there, man.

And what's with the going down under the map after every single kill? Ain't no enemies to kill down there...

My advice? Start carrying a Fighting Lion. It's a Special, but it uses Primary ammo. A lot better for your odd playstyle.

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bungl so smrt

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 07:03 (1836 days ago) @ Korny

Seriously. What...the...shit.

This was just the final two minutes. The WHOLE GAME was like this. I did not get a single brick the entire game.


So you carry two Special weapons, kill three whole minor enemies in the last two minutes of the game, and you wonder why you don't get ammo?

200-IQ play there, man.

And what's with the going down under the map after every single kill? Ain't no enemies to kill down there...

My advice? Start carrying a Fighting Lion. It's a Special, but it uses Primary ammo. A lot better for your odd playstyle.

I run shotgun/fusion on my Titan quite a bit, and Scavenger/Reserves/Finder perks are absolutely crucial. I also use abilities with some degree of splash (most often ballistic slam/Skullfort) to clear the baby mobs without using too much ammo. But Korny's point about FL is good here, too. Gotta build it right, or this is what happens.

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Solo Primeval w/Melee Only. Got It.

by Morpheus @, High Charity, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 07:35 (1836 days ago) @ Korny

I think you might have missed the part earlier about me not getting ammo at all. As in Two. Separate. Rounds. And. "Three. Whole. Minor. Enemies." Being. The. Last. Of. Forty. Two. Kills. Total. And. I. Did. Not. Get. One. Single. Bullet. For. ANY. Gun. Throughout. The. ENTIRE. Game. From. Start. To. Finish.

I admit, a Shotgun/Fusion Rifle loadout is a little strange--I think I had some bounties that required kills with those weapons, or something I no longer remember. But regardless of what playstyle I do or don't use, it doesn't matter if I've equipped two sticks and a damn rock--If I'm getting almost the top number of kills, I SHOULD BE GETTING AMMO FROM SOMEWHERE. I literally have the 2nd highest amount of kills in that game on my team. And if Bungie had actually tested anything they've ever done, I would've gotten first, even if we lost. What happened to the vacuum effect they so gloriously lorded over in one of their updates? Where if a player was low or completely out of ammo, in 15 seconds it would fill a substantial amount of ammunition for all three weapon slots? What happened to spawning with fucking ammo?

I had to run to bottom center because other than getting thrown around everywhere by the boss, recovering from point blank sniper shots and reviving my teammates who somehow die even though THEY have guns, I thought maybe I was missing a brick SOMEWHERE in that murky Taken shit.

Yeah, 200 IQ. I'm officially 200% positive I can singlehandedly run an entire video game company better than an army of over 500, and I dropped out of college.

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Solo Primeval w/Melee Only. Got It.

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 07:42 (1836 days ago) @ Morpheus

I admit, a Shotgun/Fusion Rifle loadout is a little strange--I think I had some bounties that required kills with those weapons, or something I no longer remember. But regardless of what playstyle I do or don't use, it doesn't matter if I've equipped two sticks and a damn rock--If I'm getting almost the top number of kills, I SHOULD BE GETTING AMMO FROM SOMEWHERE. I literally have the 2nd highest amount of kills in that game on my team.

You basically got extremely unlucky, and/or missed a brick somewhere. As Malagate mentioned, it's very important in this meta to have the ammo perks on to get energy and heavy ammo.

What happened to the vacuum effect they so gloriously lorded over in one of their updates? Where if a player was low or completely out of ammo, in 15 seconds it would fill a substantial amount of ammunition for all three weapon slots?

That is for PvE only I believe.

What happened to spawning with fucking ammo?

If you die and respawn you get primary ammo. When you spawn at the start of the round you get kinetic and energy.

I had to run to bottom center because other than getting thrown around everywhere by the boss, recovering from point blank sniper shots and reviving my teammates who somehow die even though THEY have guns, I thought maybe I was missing a brick SOMEWHERE in that murky Taken shit.

Yeah, the updated boss slam is total bull shit. I really think they need to tone that down a little.

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Solo Primeval w/Melee Only. Got It.

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 08:37 (1836 days ago) @ Morpheus

I think you might have missed the part earlier about me not getting ammo at all. As in Two. Separate. Rounds. And. "Three. Whole. Minor. Enemies." Being. The. Last. Of. Forty. Two. Kills. Total. And. I. Did. Not. Get. One. Single. Bullet. For. ANY. Gun. Throughout. The. ENTIRE. Game. From. Start. To. Finish.

That's odd. According to your game history, you had 33 Special weapon kills that match. Considering that you spawn with one round apiece, that's an average of 8.25 kills with Special weapons per death, meaning that (without Scavenger perks) you averaged about 4 Special ammo bricks per death.

Honesty is the best policy, friend!

What happened to spawning with fucking ammo?

If you use two specials, your ammo is divided between the two on spawn, so you will spawn with one round apiece. It's been that way since the first day they let you equip two specials.

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Solo Primeval w/Melee Only. Got It.

by Morpheus @, High Charity, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 09:07 (1836 days ago) @ Korny

I started the game with full ammo on my weapons. If I had just one each at the very beginning, I would've quit long before then. In fact, recording that clip was the only reason I didn't quit.

And you're right, I noticed that in the video when I died, I spawned with one shot each. So for 42 kills I got one single shot for two weapons in a 10 minute game. That Primeval should've fallen to its knees.

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bungl so smrt

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 07:36 (1836 days ago) @ Korny

My advice? Start carrying a Fighting Lion. It's a Special, but it uses Primary ammo.

Not only that, but it's guaranteed to generate a brick of primary ammo on direct kills, and it gets a free round in the mag when you damage an enemy with it and mop them up with something else. It's almost impossible to run out of ammo as long as you're actually killing things with it. This is a pretty typical room after clearing it with FL:

[image]

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Remember, Bungie expects you to play a certain way

by Blackt1g3r @, Login is from an untrusted domain in MN, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 07:22 (1836 days ago) @ Morpheus

Two secondaries isn't going to work out unless all of your armor pieces have secondary ammo finder (or similar) perks. Personally I try to use a primary weapon, a secondary weapon (used sparingly for Majors mostly), and then run a bunch of Heavy Ammo finder perks so I almost always have heavies available when someone invades and/or for the Primeval. Bungie has tuned the ammo economy to ensure that you almost have to play with these perks because otherwise people who played with them would have too much heavy/secondary ammo.

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But How Is That Fair?

by Morpheus @, High Charity, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 07:45 (1836 days ago) @ Blackt1g3r

Two secondaries isn't going to work out unless all of your armor pieces have secondary ammo finder (or similar) perks. Personally I try to use a primary weapon, a secondary weapon (used sparingly for Majors mostly), and then run a bunch of Heavy Ammo finder perks so I almost always have heavies available when someone invades and/or for the Primeval. Bungie has tuned the ammo economy to ensure that you almost have to play with these perks because otherwise people who played with them would have too much heavy/secondary ammo.

I get that having two specials will clash, but they're still there for a reason--to serve as a choice or an option. How unfair would it be when if a player selected a certain game mode, a bunch of their weapons and armor suddenly greyed out and were not allowed in their activity just because?

Not that running with Shotgun/Fusion is an optimal idea, but it's there if someone wants to use that. And the issue with ammo economy--I still know plenty of people, in every form of Destiny be it competitive or cooperative--that run around with only shotguns and/or fusion rifles and they get so much ammo they never have to switch weapons even once.

But How Is That Fair?

by Claude Errera @, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 09:08 (1836 days ago) @ Morpheus

Two secondaries isn't going to work out unless all of your armor pieces have secondary ammo finder (or similar) perks. Personally I try to use a primary weapon, a secondary weapon (used sparingly for Majors mostly), and then run a bunch of Heavy Ammo finder perks so I almost always have heavies available when someone invades and/or for the Primeval. Bungie has tuned the ammo economy to ensure that you almost have to play with these perks because otherwise people who played with them would have too much heavy/secondary ammo.


I get that having two specials will clash, but they're still there for a reason--to serve as a choice or an option. How unfair would it be when if a player selected a certain game mode, a bunch of their weapons and armor suddenly greyed out and were not allowed in their activity just because?

I run with Jotunn most of the time, these days. I have at least 2 Fusion Rifle Scavengers and one FR Reserve perk, and (usually) one Special Ammo Finder perk to help with this. (I almost never run out of ammo. In fact, when people who play with me hear "I'm REALLY low on special ammo right now", it usually means I have less than 5 shots.)

Your armor in that game had exactly one FR Scavenger perk, no Special Ammo Finders, and no Shotgun Scavenger perks. I'm not surprised at all that you were tight on ammo. (I will echo Korny, though, in saying that if you're not exaggerating, getting 33 kills with those two weapons with NO spawned ammo at all is pretty frickin' impressive. Nearly unbelievable, even.)

You've got a couple of choices, as I see it: you can play the (sort of odd) loadout you've chosen to play, if you're willing to put the time in to find armor that will make it feasible... or you can swap out one of your overpowered guns for a primary of SOME flavor, so that you have more ammo for it without having to customize your armor. What you can't really do is complain that Bungie doesn't allow you to run with two specials without any limits.

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You're Right About That.

by Morpheus @, High Charity, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 09:56 (1836 days ago) @ Claude Errera

A lot of people have said this in the thread; armor with the right perks is crucial, and you're absolutely right on that front--I didn't pay attention to my armor choices or prepare adequately--I'm fairly sure I just selected Maximum Light. So yes, I'll definitely concede to that. I only occasionally pick through armor choices in PvE, usually strikes or high light missions, or something to adjust having a new exotic. I don't really give a second thought to the armor pieces I receive, which explains my vault always being full.

As for the weapons, I'm almost entirely certain that there was some bounty or pursuit or something, involving one or both weapons. So I won't be doing that again. But even though something like regulation would attempt to "balance" two specials, this defines overkill. Limits is one thing, but I got nothing--far too extremely on the other side of the spectrum.

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So the Ammo Finder stacks bug is confirmed fixed?

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 08:34 (1836 days ago) @ Blackt1g3r

- No text -

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So the Ammo Finder stacks bug is confirmed fixed?

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 09:42 (1836 days ago) @ Malagate

I’d have trouble believing it was ever a bug to begin with if no one else had talked about it. I have never, ever had any real ammo problems as long as I’ve been running the correct Finder perk. My experience has just never matched up with those complaints.

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So the Ammo Finder stacks bug is confirmed fixed?

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 10:22 (1836 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I’d have trouble believing it was ever a bug to begin with if no one else had talked about it. I have never, ever had any real ammo problems as long as I’ve been running the correct Finder perk. My experience has just never matched up with those complaints.

I've heard complaints about the Heavy ammo finder not stacking. But you are right that it's so hard to actually tell if it was fixed or even broken to begin with because of RNG.

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So the Ammo Finder stacks bug is confirmed fixed?

by squidnh3, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 10:44 (1836 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV
edited by squidnh3, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 10:49

I've heard complaints about the Heavy ammo finder not stacking. But you are right that it's so hard to actually tell if it was fixed or even broken to begin with because of RNG.

One guy on Reddit basically demonstrated that for killing yellow bars in patrol, heavy drop rate is approx. 8.5%. This increases to 9% with a heavy ammo finder, and decreases back to 8.5% with two heavy ammo finders. I recall Cosmo responding at one point that he had talked to the team, and the perk was working as intended, but not in a way that validated those percentages or scenario. Personally, I prefer scavenger perks as I can confirm that they are indeed doing something of significance.

Edited for accuracy based on original Reddit post.

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So the Ammo Finder stacks bug is confirmed fixed?

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 10:53 (1836 days ago) @ squidnh3

I just don’t trust user data on that. Working with percentages and RNG makes anecdotal observations meaningless, for the most part. I’ve personally never really been starved for Heavy ammo. Sure, there are times when I don’t have any for a Primeval burn, but that’s usually because I used it to take out more draining blockers, or burn a HVT to summon or something, not because I never got any to drop at any point. I pretty much always get a few bricks per round. I run a Heavy Ammo Finder cloak and usually one other piece with Heavy Finder (can’t recall if it’s helmet or arms that has it).

So no, I guess I don’t really have a clue if the perk is really affecting Heavy ammo drop rates or not, but it seems to work fine.

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So the Ammo Finder stacks bug is confirmed fixed?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 12:26 (1836 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I just don’t trust user data on that. Working with percentages and RNG makes anecdotal observations meaningless, for the most part. I’ve personally never really been starved for Heavy ammo. Sure, there are times when I don’t have any for a Primeval burn, but that’s usually because I used it to take out more draining blockers, or burn a HVT to summon or something, not because I never got any to drop at any point. I pretty much always get a few bricks per round. I run a Heavy Ammo Finder cloak and usually one other piece with Heavy Finder (can’t recall if it’s helmet or arms that has it).

So no, I guess I don’t really have a clue if the perk is really affecting Heavy ammo drop rates or not, but it seems to work fine.

I share your concerns, but from what I remember of that specific Reddit post, he was pretty thorough in his testing. He based his results on THOUSANDS of kills, carefully tracking the results as he went.

Not saying it’s bullet proof evidence, but I did find it fairly convincing.

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So the Ammo Finder stacks bug is confirmed fixed?

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 14:54 (1836 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

That’s fair enough. He may have made a convincing case backed by tons of data. I’d be lying if I said I cared enough to go look at it though. (:

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So the Ammo Finder stacks bug is confirmed fixed?

by Harmanimus @, Thursday, March 21, 2019, 08:41 (1835 days ago) @ cheapLEY

The real question is has it been peer reviewed and someone has replicated the experiment to the same end result.

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Isn't inherent Juggler still a thing?

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 09:47 (1836 days ago) @ Morpheus

Like, if you have a Special weapon in your hands, Special bricks will almost certainly never drop. Try switching to your Heavy when punching fools, should improve things slightly.

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Isn't inherent Juggler still a thing?

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 09:59 (1836 days ago) @ ZackDark

Like, if you have a Special weapon in your hands, Special bricks will almost certainly never drop. Try switching to your Heavy when punching fools, should improve things slightly.

Also, he had a Primary Ammo Finder perk on. I don't know if that decreases the chances of the enemy dropping Special, or if it simply stacks a bonus ammo drop chance on an enemy (since they can drop two stacks at times). Either way, it's certainly not a helpful perk with his loadout.

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Isn't inherent Juggler still a thing?

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Monday, March 25, 2019, 13:02 (1831 days ago) @ Korny

or if it simply stacks a bonus ammo drop chance on an enemy (since they can drop two stacks at times).

Pretty sure it's this one. When I was playing D2 I saw primary and special drop from the same enemy pretty frequently, so I don't think it's only one or the other.

IIRC I think Morpheus only jumped on D2 pretty recently (correct me if I'm wrong on that), so it's possible he may not have been aware of the inherent juggler behavior. It was talked about a lot when D2 first came out, but it doesn't get brought up much now. So for someone who started playing recently, it's plausible they may not have heard about it.

Yes, I think it is.

by Claude Errera @, Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 11:02 (1836 days ago) @ ZackDark

Like, if you have a Special weapon in your hands, Special bricks will almost certainly never drop. Try switching to your Heavy when punching fools, should improve things slightly.

Forgot about that - but yeah, kills with one type of ammo seem to increase the chance of any drop being a DIFFERENT kind of ammo. (This is nowhere near universal; I've definitely killed an enemy with Jotunn, and had 2 Special bricks drop from that one kill... but it's almost certainly a trend. It is MORE LIKELY that white or purple ammo will drop from a green kill, if any ammo drops at all.)

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