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Gambit Prime exploit found. Avoid for now. (Destiny)

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 06:57 (170 days ago)
edited by Korny, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 07:04

Apparently, if you unequip your Sentry gear when you’re at 5 stacks, you keep the Taken damage buff without penalty, letting you melt the blockers and boss on the second damage phase in seconds.

Via Reddit

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Who the heck finds this out!?

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 07:05 (170 days ago) @ Korny

Apparently, if you unequip your Sentry gear when you’re at 5 stacks, you keep the Taken damage buff without penalty, letting you melt the blockers and boss on the second damage phase in seconds.


Yep, I feel like just stripping all my armor off right before a win.

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Who the heck finds this out!?

by ManKitten ⌂, The Stugotz is strong in me., Thursday, April 04, 2019, 07:26 (170 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

Apparently, if you unequip your Sentry gear when you’re at 5 stacks, you keep the Taken damage buff without penalty, letting you melt the blockers and boss on the second damage phase in seconds.

Yep, I feel like just stripping all my armor off right before a win.

Well, the collection part of prime and the primeval part of prime are pretty different styles of play and the primeval part lasts long enough that it could be worth swapping armor for different mods/perks?

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This

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 09:04 (170 days ago) @ ManKitten

Apparently, if you unequip your Sentry gear when you’re at 5 stacks, you keep the Taken damage buff without penalty, letting you melt the blockers and boss on the second damage phase in seconds.

Yep, I feel like just stripping all my armor off right before a win.


Well, the collection part of prime and the primeval part of prime are pretty different styles of play and the primeval part lasts long enough that it could be worth swapping armor for different mods/perks?

The few times I’ve actually used my Prime Invader armor, I take it all off once the match progresses to the Primeval phase. The only invader perk that I find makes a significant difference is the ability to lock the opponents’ bank, and that’s useless come the damage phase. So I swap over to armor that has perks that’ll actually make a difference.

This

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 09:11 (170 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

Apparently, if you unequip your Sentry gear when you’re at 5 stacks, you keep the Taken damage buff without penalty, letting you melt the blockers and boss on the second damage phase in seconds.

Yep, I feel like just stripping all my armor off right before a win.


Well, the collection part of prime and the primeval part of prime are pretty different styles of play and the primeval part lasts long enough that it could be worth swapping armor for different mods/perks?


The few times I’ve actually used my Prime Invader armor, I take it all off once the match progresses to the Primeval phase. The only invader perk that I find makes a significant difference is the ability to lock the opponents’ bank, and that’s useless come the damage phase. So I swap over to armor that has perks that’ll actually make a difference.

Heh - silly me, I've been trying to get Prime armor that contains the perks I normally play with!

I should have thought this through.

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This

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 10:01 (169 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Apparently, if you unequip your Sentry gear when you’re at 5 stacks, you keep the Taken damage buff without penalty, letting you melt the blockers and boss on the second damage phase in seconds.

Yep, I feel like just stripping all my armor off right before a win.


Well, the collection part of prime and the primeval part of prime are pretty different styles of play and the primeval part lasts long enough that it could be worth swapping armor for different mods/perks?


The few times I’ve actually used my Prime Invader armor, I take it all off once the match progresses to the Primeval phase. The only invader perk that I find makes a significant difference is the ability to lock the opponents’ bank, and that’s useless come the damage phase. So I swap over to armor that has perks that’ll actually make a difference.


Heh - silly me, I've been trying to get Prime armor that contains the perks I normally play with!

I should have thought this through.

hah, in an ideal world I'd love to have a set of Prime armor that has the perks I want... but realistically speaking, that just isn't going to happen. It's take roughly 7 months for RNG to grant me a set of armor for my Hunter that has the perks I want (for the most part... still a couple areas I can upgrade). And that's pulling armor from Dreaming City, Last Wish, and Scourge of the Past; all destinations/activities that I have put A LOT of time into. There's just no way I'm going to sink similar time into grinding out Gambit Prime armor with similar perks.

I'm not even convinced that the Prime-specific perks are all that worthwhile. They're cool, no doubt. But I'm not convinced that running a Notorious Invader set was worth sacrificing my enhanced Grenade reloader and grenade launcher reserve perks, or my Orpheus rigs, or all the Super mods I have on my usual armor.

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Who the heck finds this out!?

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 07:27 (170 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

Apparently, if you unequip your Sentry gear when you’re at 5 stacks, you keep the Taken damage buff without penalty, letting you melt the blockers and boss on the second damage phase in seconds.

Yep, I feel like just stripping all my armor off right before a win.

There's whole groups that hop into private matches just to test out every minutiae for the sake of numbers. I'm sure they were testing exactly how much of a buff the perks were, then were shocked when they unequipped the gear and the buff stayed.

But yeah, gear-specific buffs staying after you remove the gear? That's just basic playtesting. I'm amazed that it got into the game.

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Who the heck finds this out!?

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 07:49 (170 days ago) @ Korny

Apparently, if you unequip your Sentry gear when you’re at 5 stacks, you keep the Taken damage buff without penalty, letting you melt the blockers and boss on the second damage phase in seconds.

Yep, I feel like just stripping all my armor off right before a win.


There's whole groups that hop into private matches just to test out every minutiae for the sake of numbers. I'm sure they were testing exactly how much of a buff the perks were, then were shocked when they unequipped the gear and the buff stayed.

But yeah, gear-specific buffs staying after you remove the gear? That's just basic playtesting. I'm amazed that it got into the game.

Changing armor mid game is an edge case. Yes, they should have caught it, but it's not exactly testing checklist 101.

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Who the heck finds this out!?

by Harmanimus @, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 11:06 (169 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

Even then they may have tested a sample of variables like that, not found an exploit, and moved on to testing more obviously pressing matters.

Who the heck finds this out!?

by marmot 1333 @, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 14:27 (169 days ago) @ Korny

That's just basic playtesting.

With all the items and perks in Destiny 2, to actually test everything would be an astronomical time sink. The test matrix (basically every perk * every perk * every perk etc...) would be mindbogglingly high.

In software it is quite common that testing things much longer than actually designing, developing, and implementing things, particularly when there are lots of interactions.

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This this this this

by kidtsunami @, Atlanta, GA, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 14:34 (169 days ago) @ marmot 1333

That's just basic playtesting.


With all the items and perks in Destiny 2, to actually test everything would be an astronomical time sink. The test matrix (basically every perk * every perk * every perk etc...) would be mindbogglingly high.

In software it is quite common that testing things much longer than actually designing, developing, and implementing things, particularly when there are lots of interactions.

It is downright astounding that there aren't MORE bugs in a game of Destiny's scope.

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+1

by slycrel ⌂, Friday, April 05, 2019, 08:53 (169 days ago) @ kidtsunami

- No text -

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Who the heck finds this out!?

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 14:54 (169 days ago) @ marmot 1333

That's just basic playtesting.


With all the items and perks in Destiny 2, to actually test everything would be an astronomical time sink. The test matrix (basically every perk * every perk * every perk etc...) would be mindbogglingly high.

Except in this instance, there were only four unique armor perk sets introduced into the game (outside of exotics).
And not only that, they themselves are the big draw for the entire expansion. To say that the entire loot focus of the premiere content (again, just four perk sets) wasn’t a high priority for playtesting?

... well, it wouldn’t be inconsistent with D2 Bungie, I guess.


In software it is quite common that testing things much longer than actually designing, developing, and implementing things, particularly when there are lots of interactions.

So how many interactions are possible with the Gambit prime armor? I thought the perks were only active in Gambit Prime.

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Who the heck finds this out!?

by Harmanimus @, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 15:33 (169 days ago) @ Korny

You are forgetting about possible interactions with every existing perk or effect. Even if you want to say it is only “4 perk sets” that is your existing base of content multiplied by every possible permutation including those new perks. So a fringe case based on irregular gameplay actions seems like it might be simple to test, but that is working on a lot of assumptions.

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Who the heck finds this out!?

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 15:41 (169 days ago) @ Harmanimus

I think you are overestimating how “fringe” that circumstance is.

I don’t think this bug particularly matters much. They missed it, they know now, they’ll fix it. But if your argument is that it’s okay because it’s a fringe case, I don’t think that’s really true at all. That players might switch out armor sets based on circumstances (and especially based on phase of a Gambit match) seems incredibly obvious. The perks pretty much guarantee it.

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Who the heck finds this out!?

by Harmanimus @, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 18:42 (169 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Given that we don’t have statistics on how often players change their complete armor sets in the middle of a match, I don’t think it’s fair to imply how fringe I think it is. But the argument isn’t about it being “okay” - whatever that is supposed to imply. We don’t know how many other bugs their testing procedures identified that they were able to rectify. We have this without greater context, and people tend to forget that lack of context.

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Who the heck finds this out!?

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 19:40 (169 days ago) @ Harmanimus
edited by cheapLEY, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 19:44

Given that we don’t have statistics on how often players change their complete armor sets in the middle of a match, I don’t think it’s fair to imply how fringe I think it is.

So a fringe case based on irregular gameplay actions seems like it might be simple to test, but that is working on a lot of assumptions.

You're the one who said it's a fringe case, so don't give me that "we don't have the data" BS.

I don't particularly care about this bug or think it's some egregious oversight that Bungie needs to be ashamed of.

My only point was that you used switching armor being a fringe case as some sort of justification for the bug existing. I'm saying that I don't think it's a fringe case at all. I switch armor all the time, I know plenty of people that switch armor for every raid encounter, switch armor mid-Crucible game to better match a new loadout they might switch to. And, as I said, Gambit Prime seems like an obvious activity to switch armors during. Running Collector Armor gets you literally nothing during Primeval phase, so switching from a Collector set to something else seems really obvious. Switch away from Sentry, where the bug comes from, seems less obviously useful, but still possible.

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Who the heck finds this out!?

by Harmanimus @, Thursday, April 04, 2019, 22:25 (169 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Your anecdotal evidence is in direct contrast to my anecdotal evidence. In the context of testing for bugs I will go out on a limb and suggest that relative to other planned-for test cases that it is a fringe case. That's what I was trying to get at. Not a personal attack on people who like to change gear in the middle of an activity.

They have to ship the content sometime, so I'm with you that it isn't big and it isn't shameful.

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Who the heck finds this out!?

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Friday, April 05, 2019, 12:39 (168 days ago) @ Harmanimus

They have to ship the content sometime, so I'm with you that it isn't big and it isn't shameful.

Clearly it's not very big, which is why they're flat-out disabling the armor set and Synths entirely until further notice.

#kornywasright

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Neat

by DiscipleN2k @, Edmond, OK, Friday, April 05, 2019, 13:19 (168 days ago) @ Korny

Sentry was the only set I've bothered to chase. I suck at remembering callouts, so marking invaders was a pretty awesome perk. I get that something needed to be done about the bug, but once again, I really don't get their reasoning. Just disabling the bugged perk would have made sense. Temporarily disabling all of the prime perks to level the field would have made sense. But I'd like to know who made the final call to just say, "You know what? Let's just straight-up fuck the Sentries and leave everything else alone." I would like to send them a token of my appreciation.

-Disciple

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Who the heck finds this out!?

by cheapLEY @, Friday, April 05, 2019, 13:20 (168 days ago) @ Korny

That’s honestly more annoying than just letting it ride. Good thing I already don’t care about getting that armor or playing more Gambit, because that would absolutely kill any desire I would have had.

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Who the heck finds this out!?

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Friday, April 05, 2019, 14:03 (168 days ago) @ cheapLEY

That’s honestly more annoying than just letting it ride. Good thing I already don’t care about getting that armor or playing more Gambit, because that would absolutely kill any desire I would have had.

Considering they just let the completely game-breaking Gwisin Vest slide for ages, it's weird that they're yanking the entire perk set full stop from the Sentry.

I guess streamers don't like playing Sentry?

Whee Doggies. :(

by Claude Errera @, Friday, April 05, 2019, 15:24 (168 days ago) @ Korny

They have to ship the content sometime, so I'm with you that it isn't big and it isn't shameful.


Clearly it's not very big, which is why they're flat-out disabling the armor set and Synths entirely until further notice.

#kornywasright

Sentry is the only Notorious armor I had. :(

Can't decide if this means I should work on getting other Notorious armor, or just quit playing Gambit Prime until they fix this. Sort of depressing that's my choice.

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Whee Doggies. :(

by ManKitten ⌂, The Stugotz is strong in me., Friday, April 05, 2019, 18:08 (168 days ago) @ Claude Errera

They have to ship the content sometime, so I'm with you that it isn't big and it isn't shameful.


Clearly it's not very big, which is why they're flat-out disabling the armor set and Synths entirely until further notice.

#kornywasright


Sentry is the only Notorious armor I had. :(

Can't decide if this means I should work on getting other Notorious armor, or just quit playing Gambit Prime until they fix this. Sort of depressing that's my choice.

Oh yeah? Was that fancy armor helping you win? :P

Whee Doggies. :(

by Claude Errera @, Saturday, April 06, 2019, 11:08 (167 days ago) @ ManKitten

They have to ship the content sometime, so I'm with you that it isn't big and it isn't shameful.


Clearly it's not very big, which is why they're flat-out disabling the armor set and Synths entirely until further notice.

#kornywasright


Sentry is the only Notorious armor I had. :(

Can't decide if this means I should work on getting other Notorious armor, or just quit playing Gambit Prime until they fix this. Sort of depressing that's my choice.


Oh yeah? Was that fancy armor helping you win? :P

No idea, actually. I earned it the last time I played the GP/Reckoning loop; I hadn't tried it on yet. Was something I worked hard to get to, though, and the Outlaw armor I used to infuse the Notorious armor WAS useful. So... yeah, probably?

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Well, that's excessive

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Friday, April 05, 2019, 21:19 (168 days ago) @ Korny

I'm all for disabling the perk that lets them stomp bosses, but all of them? What's the reasoning? Easy fix?

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Well, that's excessive

by Harmanimus @, Saturday, April 06, 2019, 11:15 (167 days ago) @ ZackDark

Perhaps it is reflexive given how the community on the broad has responded to imbalance not being immediately and swiftly addressed recently.

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