The Consistency of Destiny

Yesterday, on a whim, I gathered up all my favorite exciting Crucible moments that I still have access to and tossed them into iMovie in a random order and threw some rock anthems over the top of them all. Eighty-five kills later, I noticed something pretty neat: Unless I paid close attention, it was not immediately obvious which game I was looking at. Sure, some tactics from one game might not translate perfectly to the other, but for the most part clips from the two games felt very consistent with each other. It really felt like I was just watching a bunch of clips from the same game... even though those clips were actually spread out across several years.

That got me thinking about how interesting it is to have a series remain so near identically consistent over such a long period. Unless Bungie makes massive changes to Destiny 2's base gameplay, we will probably be playing with the same fundamental gameplay for a period of over five years! I tried to think of any other series that has remained anywhere near so consistent over such a long period...

Halo hasn't. Halo 2 feels pretty different form Halo 1. Halo 3 altered the gameplay feel quite a bit again. Sure, ODST was the same, but Reach shifted back towards Halo 1, and while Halos 4 and 5 changed things up to a new 343i style of gameplay.

Mass Effect might be even more drastic. ME1 plays very different from ME2 while ME3 and Andromeda built on but also changed up the ME2 style of gameplay a good bit.

All the Call of Warfares and Metal of Dutys feel the same to me, though maybe someone who actually likes them could give more insight if they change much year to year.

The one series I came up with that has remained pretty consistent was the Batman Arkham series. The basic punching, dodging, countering gameplay has remained largely consistent across six years of titles. Other than the Batmobile in Knight, you can almost swap between games and remain equally potent with just some small adjustments to a few specific enemy classes.

Are there any other series you can think of that have remained very similar to each other? Also, do you see that consistency as a strength or weakness?

I largely see it as a strength. To me, Destiny has always felt like the final form of the gameplay loop that Bungie first gave us in Halo: Combat Evolved. It seems like changing it too much might break what makes Destiny Destiny.

What do you think?

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I’d say the Megaman games have remained similar. Anybtime they switch it up it’s spun off into a new series: X, Legends, Battle Network etc
But within each series the games are extremely similar.

But as far as Destiny goes… the similarity you mention is one of the reasons I’ve burned out and stopped playing.

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I feel like whatever is next for Destiny has to do something big for me to get really excited about it. Sure, the gunplay and base movement and mechanics are great. I just don’t feel like they’re being utilized in a very worthwhile way. Even as good as modern raids are (and they are excellent), that’s starting to feel like it’s not really enough in some ways.

Games like Apex Legends feel just as good on a base level (even better in a lot of ways), and don’t ask me to play dozens of hours of mediocre, repetitive content before I can start really having fun. I can jump in and play for hours, or I can take a break for weeks and not feel “behind.”

I still love Destiny, and I’ll be playing it again and be completely enthralled soon enough, but I’ve momentarily lost all motivation to play it.

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I don’t think “I’m not playing X right now” is much of a criticism of a game. Or, it shouldn’t be. Even the best games should not try and demand all of a player’ s time. Halo probably demanded too little, meaning I always wished there’d been more Halo, though a lot of that was technical. Lack of internet updates and distribution until Halo 3, really. And Destiny demands somewhat too much. The perfect game would be fun to play but would then gracefully step aside after you’ve completed the current segment of content. And then come back strong a few months later with a good batch of new content.

I don’t think many people want to play any game non-stop for months or years at a time, but a lot of games are asking that of us now. Notice, however, that the best of the best (Dad of War, Witcher 3, The Last of Us, Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice, Horizon: Zero Dawn, etc)... don’t.

Personally, once I beat a Raid I tend to swap in a different game or games in place of Destiny so I don’t burn out. I think all of us (players and developers) need the better realize that’s how things should be.

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That’s all fair.

I didn’t mean to imply that I’m disappointed that I’m not playing Destiny. Quite the opposite. Destiny asks for too much of my time to keep up, to progress far enough to do the stuff I want to do. I’ve still only done Tier 1 Reckoning. I just don’t want to grind milestones to be able to do higher tiers. I was playing Comp for the weapons, but, more importantly, because I was having a lot of fun doing it. But Bungie apparently doesn’t think that’s a worthy activity for leveling up, and it sucks. So I’d have had to stop playing the activity I actually wanted to play to go redo the same shit I’ve been doing for six months already to power up enough to do the other new content that’s interesting. It’s completely disrespectful of my time, and ultimately just not worth it.

Apex, on the other hand, only requires that I play enough to get better, to learn the map and the weapons. There is no grinding to power up so that I’m actually allowed to play. I can just hop on and play.

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That’s all fair.

I didn’t mean to imply that I’m disappointed that I’m not playing Destiny. Quite the opposite. Destiny asks for too much of my time to keep up, to progress far enough to do the stuff I want to do. I’ve still only done Tier 1 Reckoning. I just don’t want to grind milestones to be able to do higher tiers. I was playing Comp for the weapons, but, more importantly, because I was having a lot of fun doing it. But Bungie apparently doesn’t think that’s a worthy activity for leveling up, and it sucks. So I’d have had to stop playing the activity I actually wanted to play to go redo the same shit I’ve been doing for six months already to power up enough to do the other new content that’s interesting. It’s completely disrespectful of my time, and ultimately just not worth it.

Apex, on the other hand, only requires that I play enough to get better, to learn the map and the weapons. There is no grinding to power up so that I’m actually allowed to play. I can just hop on and play.

This is the same reason I'm playing a lot of Apex lately. I jumped back into D2 for the season of the drifter and I got burned out really quickly because I'm back to the same power-grind that I used to have. I like the Invitations of the Nine quest thing for the story bits, but I give up on it. First, I ended up completing the second week too late (ie Monday or Tuesday) so I couldn't actually pick up week three on the weekend and now I'm behind (thankfully I can catch back up if I like when Xur is around - I just have to wait 7 days or so for the next one). More importantly though, I find grinding the kills and doing the strike to be boring. Non-raid PvE just isn't that exciting to me anymore. Especially when it's like my 10 millionth time doing the strike.

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I don’t think “I’m not playing X right now” is much of a criticism of a game. Or, it shouldn’t be. Even the best games should not try and demand all of a player’ s time. Halo probably demanded too little, meaning I always wished there’d been more Halo, though a lot of that was technical. Lack of internet updates and distribution until Halo 3, really. And Destiny demands somewhat too much. The perfect game would be fun to play but would then gracefully step aside after you’ve completed the current segment of content. And then come back strong a few months later with a good batch of new content.

A good game demands nothing. A good game simply gives.

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Updated technology seems to be the biggest variant in what changes gameplay. Cody's example of Megaman is really good. From NES era to now...they've pretty much been the same. With Halo, you're looking at 3 console generations.

Then there are the perennial franchises like Gran Turismo, any EA Sports game, Call of Duty which basically just get annual graphical updates and that's it.

For me, the Mario Bros games are my pinnacle of making the same game over and over with enough variation that it doesn't get stale. Aside from the 3D N64 version, Mario has remained the same since inception.

Destiny 1 and Destiny 2 do feel the same and I'm fine with that. I hope D3 stays the same too. It's a good game! It looks good, feels good, plays good...why change it? The superficial is perfect...I just hope they focus on the actual content a bit more :P

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. . . Call of Duty which basically just get annual graphical updates and that's it.

So it is interesting, to me, that CoD is considered an “annual graphics update” series when you can barely go 2 games in a row without a substantial core gameplay or mechanical shift. It may have an annual release schedule, but it has three studios (+ whatever Activision tosses at them with supporting devs) making them and they have some very substantial leaps throughout the series.

Even if you don’t consider the complete setting changes as being substantial enough (this specific discussion is focused on gameplay) you still have mode changes (the inclusion of Zombies/etc., removal of campaign for a BR mode), and overhauls of core mechanics (Advanced Warfare adding in Exosuit jumps and dashes, Blops 3/Infinite Warfare having boosters and wall running) as well as the additions of specialists and abilities similar to supers/ults in Destiny/Hero shooters. Some changes between games are bugger than any change throughout Halo’s catalogue, at least insofar as core games.

/rant. It’s definitely not a new-coat-of-paint series.

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Even if you don’t consider the complete setting changes as being substantial enough (this specific discussion is focused on gameplay)

I hear you and agree with you on your sentiment. But like you said, this discussion is focused on gameplay, and for my money, I didn't see much a difference in the gameplay in the many iterations of CoD. I will say that I stopped playing at Black Ops (Is that the Vietnam one?) because I was tired of buying the same game every year. Even the jump from WWII to Modern Warfare was just different skins and fancy weapons...but it was still a "first shot wins" game. From my point of view, if you made a montage of all the CoD games like Raga had mentioned...they would look pretty similar despite the different eras and modes.

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I will concede that, on a very superficial level, the gameplay could easily overlap for a montage. To that same regard a lot of Halo (which was specifically cited as a series which has not been consistent earlier in the thread) or many other game series could, too, when cut for a montage.

But you have to skip out on a lot of gameplay to get that. No kill streaks (introduced in COD4); you have to skip out three years of games in the series (Advanced Warfare, Black Ops 3, and Infinite Warfare); You can only include Multiplayer.

Even if I don't like most of the series there are still really good games in them, or at least portions of games in each, albeit I have skipped out on BO4 almost entirely due to the choice to drop a campaign. That was the biggest draw for me with COD. But having played many of them it is hard to view them as being somehow more similar than Halo.

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I largely see it as a strength. To me, Destiny has always felt like the final form of the gameplay loop that Bungie first gave us in Halo: Combat Evolved. It seems like changing it too much might break what makes Destiny Destiny.

What do you think?

The final form of Destiny's PvP gameplay has and will always be SRL.

I will hear no argument to the contrary.

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It's in D1 Private Matches.

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I forgot about that. I’ll have to post a FTB for some private matches.

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One persons satisfying consistency is another persons unsatisfying monotony.

Destiny gun-play felt super consistent and satisfying for me from D1 to D2 and I enjoyed that. Yet grinding\rng\and time investment also felt monotonous and unsatisfying, so I washed out.

There are arguments to be made on both sides of the coin, but whenever I'd hear someone say that "Game 1" is way better than "Game 1 the sequel" I'd say to them then go play "Game 1" but that doesn't matter. Some people just like to bitch :P

In Halo, I applauded both bungie and 343 for taking chances and adding new things, even if they weren't always well received. If I wanted to play Combat Evolved all day until the end of time, my name would be Bad-Cyborg and not Revenant1988 lol.

Then again, there are games like Metroid Prime and Ace Combat that I love, and the sequels in those series are BARELY any different at all. The 'ol If it ain't broke don't fix it logic.

Hey, when something clicks, it clicks. But what clicks varies from person to person.

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