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Update 2.2.1 (Destiny)

by DiscipleN2k @, Edmond, OK, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 11:12 (134 days ago)

Patch notes

Not mentioned:
*Fated Engram can now drop Forsaken exotics
*Wavesplitter is now part of the Xbox and PC loot pools.

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Update 2.2.1

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 12:05 (134 days ago) @ DiscipleN2k

Patch notes

Not mentioned:
*Fated Engram can now drop Forsaken exotics

So when they say "a chance", does that not mean guaranteed if you have all existing Y1 exotics?

*Wavesplitter is now part of the Xbox and PC loot pools.

Nice, we almost have full parity across the board, well before Fall 2019. Could this be a sign of account unification coming in Y3?

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Update 2.2.1

by Harmanimus, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 12:41 (134 days ago) @ Korny

If it isn’t a random chance, then that means I can have the last 3 exotics I’m missing come Friday (Wavesplitter included) as I’m only missing Quest ones otherwise.

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 14:23 (134 days ago) @ Harmanimus
edited by Korny, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 14:42

According to Bungie, you weren't supposed to get Wavesplitter after all. People who got it this morning will be able to use it until the hotfix they're working on goes live, whereupon Bungie will disable it in your inventory until September.


More importantly, because some folks found out that a small number of players could cheese Enhancement Cores out of the Pinnacle weapons (under a very specific condition), they've been disabled completely (as in, you can't earn them at all) for everyone until further notice.

Funny how quickly Bungie can squash some things after all. I wonder why it's only ever the bugs that help players, though...

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by cheapLEY @, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 15:04 (134 days ago) @ Korny

Seriously?

Fuck that. Really fuck that. Literally the only thing keeping me interested in this game right now just got disabled? Because you could earn extra enhancement cores? Shows what Bungie thinks of its players.

I think I might uninstall this game tonight. I’ve been thinking about it for a bit, but this might push me over the edge.

Who makes the decisions and Bungie, and what happened to them to give them so much brain damage? What happened to the Bungie that cared about players having fun?

Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 15:11 (134 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Seriously?

Fuck that. Really fuck that. Literally the only thing keeping me interested in this game right now just got disabled? Because you could earn extra enhancement cores? Shows what Bungie thinks of its players.

I think I might uninstall this game tonight. I’ve been thinking about it for a bit, but this might push me over the edge.

Who makes the decisions and Bungie, and what happened to them to give them so much brain damage? What happened to the Bungie that cared about players having fun?

What was the bug that allowed extra enhancement cores?

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by cheapLEY @, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 15:17 (134 days ago) @ Claude Errera

It some duplication glitch. Didn’t read that much about it.

lNever mind, found a description.

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 15:20 (134 days ago) @ Claude Errera

So you had to EARN it before today's reset, but not GRAB it until after reset.

The idea that that affects more than 1% of the player population is insane. And because they don't like the idea of some fraction of THOSE people exploiting this bug, they break the game for EVERYONE?

That seems... like a bad solution. Even if it only takes a week to fix this, it's a bad solution.

Should be pretty fucking easy to figure out how many people increased their core collection by X between today and whenever they fix it. X should be some number you can't reach by normal means - yeah, that means letting some tiny fraction of the population get more than they would otherwise be able to earn. Delete cores over X. (This is a Cody Miller(tm) solution - I haven't thought out things like "I grabbed 1000 cores and used them immediately to upgrade all my armor/weapons, so I have zero in inventory". But shit, even allowing THAT would be better than screwing over all the people who are working legitimately towards pinnacle weapons and now cannot collect them.)

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lNever mind, found a description.

by cheapLEY @, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 15:27 (134 days ago) @ Claude Errera

With how Bungie “fixes” usually go, there’s like an 80% chance that if you complete the quest before this gets fixed, it’s going to be broken when you actually get to claim the weapon.

lNever mind, found a description.

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 15:31 (134 days ago) @ cheapLEY

With how Bungie “fixes” usually go, there’s like an 80% chance that if you complete the quest before this gets fixed, it’s going to be broken when you actually get to claim the weapon.

Heh - I'm still a thousand glory points away from Fabled, so I'm not SUPER-worried about that... but yeah.

I wish I could disagree with you. :( (Well, I think you might be a little hyperbolic on the percentage, but there's definitely a non-zero chance of it.)

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lNever mind, found a description.

by cheapLEY @, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 15:44 (134 days ago) @ Claude Errera
edited by cheapLEY, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 16:05

You’re right. I’m just frustrated. It feels like it’s always the same old story.

Honestly, I’m almost half looking for a reason to just delete the game. I have a ton of fun when I play it, but it eats too much of my time, and I always seem to regret it every time I fall back into playing it and engaging in the grind. That’s a personal issue, but . . . well, Bungie certainly makes it difficult to be on their side sometimes.

The principal of this really bothers me. I understand a lot of the unpopular decisions they’ve made. This seems asinine, given how few people it would realistically apply to, and given that basically everyone hates enhancement cores anyway. It’s a problem of their own making, and instead of just eating it, they’re doing the thing that’s actively hostile to their players. Just rubs me the wrong way.

EDIT: I just saw on reddit that this glitch is the result of them trying to “fix” the issue of people grabbing the weapons on all three characters to get those extra cores. No idea if that’s true, but if it is, it’s the absolute dumbest thing I’ve heard in at least a week. God forbid players actually get enough cores to actually do something with.

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lNever mind, found a description.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 21:23 (134 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Honestly, I’m almost half looking for a reason to just delete the game. I have a ton of fun when I play it, but it eats too much of my time, and I always seem to regret it every time I fall back into playing it and engaging in the grind. That’s a personal issue, but . . . well, Bungie certainly makes it difficult to be on their side sometimes.

I managed to do it!

Bungie made it easy for me this time. Because I was so far behind, I would never get to run Riven blind. I still haven't beaten that raid, and don't actually feel that sad about it anymore. The new raid I knew I'd have had zero chance with anyway since it'd be impossible to catch up.

So I didn't buy the pass.

Honestly at this point it would take more effort to START playing Destiny 2 again than to stay away. If the investment system is removed I might pick it back up again. But if not…

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lNever mind, found a description.

by cheapLEY @, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 21:44 (134 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I still think there’s a right way to do an investment system. One that can be engaging, rewarding, and player friendly. Bungie sure hasn’t figured it out yet though.

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lNever mind, found a description.

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 22:00 (134 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Deep Rock Galactic has one and I don't mind it at all. It's not actually necessary to have the upgrades in order to play well or have fun.

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lNever mind, found a description.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 23:13 (134 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by Cody Miller, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 23:17

I still think there’s a right way to do an investment system. One that can be engaging, rewarding, and player friendly. Bungie sure hasn’t figured it out yet though.

No random drops.

Items are acquired through mastery of the game. So you'd get a guaranteed drop if you beat the raid with all arc hunters or something. The best exotic if you get a flawless. The strike loot when you hit a certain score or time goal.

Now you replay stuff to get better and try different things instead of mindlessly to hope for a drop. No grindy goals like 'beat 400 strikes'. Everything is skill based around some kind of goal. You could even get wacky with the goals (like the raid challenges for example).

PvP guns and armor are acquired as you climb the Glory ranks or win in trials matches.

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lNever mind, found a description.

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 05:39 (134 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Nah, that’s not it. You’ve just prevented vast swaths of players from ever being able to have the best gear.

Random drops are fine, I think. Power level is the only real problem. Remove it entirely, and I think Destiny would be pretty great. You’d get to play the stuff you want, chase the gear you want, with nothing standing in the way. No arbitrary gates to stop you from raiding the day it drops.

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lNever mind, found a description.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 06:49 (134 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Nah, that’s not it. You’ve just prevented vast swaths of players from ever being able to have the best gear.

Random drops are fine, I think. Power level is the only real problem. Remove it entirely, and I think Destiny would be pretty great. You’d get to play the stuff you want, chase the gear you want, with nothing standing in the way. No arbitrary gates to stop you from raiding the day it drops.

Well power level being bad is a given.

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lNever mind, found a description.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 21:06 (134 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Should be pretty fucking easy to figure out how many people increased their core collection by X between today and whenever they fix it. X should be some number you can't reach by normal means - yeah, that means letting some tiny fraction of the population get more than they would otherwise be able to earn. Delete cores over X. (This is a Cody Miller(tm) solution

How dare you. I would never suggest taking away anything from someone's inventory. Fix the bug, and what you got you get to keep. Especially since masterwork enhancement cores are stupid hard to get and make progressing a pain in the ass.

lNever mind, found a description.

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 22:22 (134 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Should be pretty fucking easy to figure out how many people increased their core collection by X between today and whenever they fix it. X should be some number you can't reach by normal means - yeah, that means letting some tiny fraction of the population get more than they would otherwise be able to earn. Delete cores over X. (This is a Cody Miller(tm) solution


How dare you. I would never suggest taking away anything from someone's inventory. Fix the bug, and what you got you get to keep. Especially since masterwork enhancement cores are stupid hard to get and make progressing a pain in the ass.

lol - okay, fair enough. I just meant "easy to write down, doesn't really consider any of the real possibilities" when I was defining the term. :)

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lNever mind, found a description.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 23:11 (134 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Should be pretty fucking easy to figure out how many people increased their core collection by X between today and whenever they fix it. X should be some number you can't reach by normal means - yeah, that means letting some tiny fraction of the population get more than they would otherwise be able to earn. Delete cores over X. (This is a Cody Miller(tm) solution


How dare you. I would never suggest taking away anything from someone's inventory. Fix the bug, and what you got you get to keep. Especially since masterwork enhancement cores are stupid hard to get and make progressing a pain in the ass.


lol - okay, fair enough. I just meant "easy to write down, doesn't really consider any of the real possibilities" when I was defining the term. :)

Oh okay. That's very me yes.

+300 Honesty Points

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 23:15 (134 days ago) @ Cody Miller

- No text -

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 17:19 (134 days ago) @ Korny
edited by Ragashingo, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 17:22

More importantly, because some folks found out that a small number of players could cheese Enhancement Cores out of the Pinnacle weapons (under a very specific condition), they've been disabled completely (as in, you can't earn them at all) for everyone until further notice.

Can't earn them at all, or can earn them but temporarily cannot pick them up from the vendor once earned?

Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 17:28 (134 days ago) @ Ragashingo

More importantly, because some folks found out that a small number of players could cheese Enhancement Cores out of the Pinnacle weapons (under a very specific condition), they've been disabled completely (as in, you can't earn them at all) for everyone until further notice.


Can't earn them at all, or can earn them but temporarily cannot pick them up from the vendor once earned?

The latter. Still sucks.

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by MacAddictXIV, Seattle WA, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 06:07 (134 days ago) @ Claude Errera

More importantly, because some folks found out that a small number of players could cheese Enhancement Cores out of the Pinnacle weapons (under a very specific condition), they've been disabled completely (as in, you can't earn them at all) for everyone until further notice.


Can't earn them at all, or can earn them but temporarily cannot pick them up from the vendor once earned?


The latter. Still sucks.

It does suck, but it also only affects a small part of the community temporarily . I'm not saying that Bungie couldn't have found a better solution. But I don't it's honestly going to affect that many people.

Meh, but who knows.

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 08:04 (134 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

It does suck, but it also only affects a small part of the community temporarily . I'm not saying that Bungie couldn't have found a better solution. But I don't it's honestly going to affect that many people.

I don't know how small that part of the community is. I have two separate Pinnacle weapons that I could have grabbed this week (for a total of six weapons for me). Claude and Speed were only a handful of wins away from theirs (and I think Speed is also working towards Luna's Howl).

Assuming what people were saying about what caused the bug, I might lose access to four of those because Bungie thinks having a few extra Enhancement cores is too much for the people who ground out those Pinnacle challenges.

And then think of the people chasing the Gambit/strike weapons on top of that.

Given how weak the season's content is already (RIP Sentry loot) Pinnacle weapons may be the main drive for a lot of people. Definitely was the one goal I had on Xbox.

Now I have to sit and wait for Bungie to sort their mess because they made an exploit for a tiny fraction of the community.

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by MacAddictXIV, Seattle WA, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 08:24 (134 days ago) @ Korny

It does suck, but it also only affects a small part of the community temporarily . I'm not saying that Bungie couldn't have found a better solution. But I don't it's honestly going to affect that many people.


I don't know how small that part of the community is. I have two separate Pinnacle weapons that I could have grabbed this week (for a total of six weapons for me). Claude and Speed were only a handful of wins away from theirs (and I think Speed is also working towards Luna's Howl).

Assuming what people were saying about what caused the bug, I might lose access to four of those because Bungie thinks having a few extra Enhancement cores is too much for the people who ground out those Pinnacle challenges.

You mean, thousands upon thousands an hour. Reacquire them, yes. But if you sharded them, you probably aren't using them very often.

And then think of the people chasing the Gambit/strike weapons on top of that.

Given how weak the season's content is already (RIP Sentry loot) Pinnacle weapons may be the main drive for a lot of people. Definitely was the one goal I had on Xbox.

Now I have to sit and wait for Bungie to sort their mess because they made an exploit for a tiny fraction of the community.

Please at least be rational. I know you are not happy about this happening and you already don't think too highly about Bungie, but come on man. You are anecdotally saying that this is affecting a large portion of people while it is only giving a gain to a tiny fraction of the community. No one but Bungie knows the numbers. Nothing about this is optimal, but at least stand back from how it affects you and think about it in the shoes of a game developer. This is technically breaking a major system of their game. Yes, to a small portion of the community, but the temporary fix while they get a hotfix out is also only affecting a small portion of the community. If I was a developer I would probably do the same thing. Because I don't think so lowly about Bungie that they put 0 thought into this.

I'm already contemplating just deleting this reply and not talking about this, because I'm sure it will get a lot of backlash but... sometimes it urks me when people just bash on something without thinking outside their own experience. And yes, there might have been a better way to go about this, but you and I both don't have that data. And I'm not going to go and say Bungie is stupid.

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 08:48 (134 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

Assuming what people were saying about what caused the bug, I might lose access to four of those because Bungie thinks having a few extra Enhancement cores is too much for the people who ground out those Pinnacle challenges.


You mean, thousands upon thousands an hour. Reacquire them, yes. But if you sharded them, you probably aren't using them very often.

No, not the exploit folks, I mean when you complete the Pinnacle challenge, you can currently grab a copy of the weapon on your other two characters. That's what Bungie was supposedly trying to remove, and which caused the bug in the first place.

Now I have to sit and wait for Bungie to sort their mess because they made an exploit for a tiny fraction of the community.


Please at least be rational. I know you are not happy about this happening and you already don't think too highly about Bungie, but come on man. You are anecdotally saying that this is affecting a large portion of people while it is only giving a gain to a tiny fraction of the community. No one but Bungie knows the numbers. Nothing about this is optimal, but at least stand back from how it affects you and think about it in the shoes of a game developer. This is technically breaking a major system of their game. Yes, to a small portion of the community, but the temporary fix while they get a hotfix out is also only affecting a small portion of the community. If I was a developer I would probably do the same thing. Because I don't think so lowly about Bungie that they put 0 thought into this.


Here's the thing, it was a reactionary change made only an hour into the update going live. Given how terrible Bungie seems to be at communicating within their own studio (source: Cody's book lol), the tiny fraction of people who could even do the exploit had probably already done it a hundred times over. Could Bungie have simply looked at the metrics for core acquisition and cut them off? Possibly. But instead, they pre-emptively cut off access to the weapons for the entire playerbase, even though the exploit was 100% unavailable to anyone else other than the tiny group. No matter how small you think the amount of players chasing Pinnacle weapons is (which again, we have three people in a single Crucible team going after them this past week alone).

Note. The way Bungie worded it, Wavesplitter is going to be a Hotfix. The Pinnacle weapons were stated to be unavailable "until a fix can be deployed".

And I'm not going to go and say Bungie is stupid.

I mean, they already have a poor track record as far a decision-making as a studio, which was always chalked up to being Activision's fault. But even after the split, they still do stupid stuff. And as Forrest Gump says...

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by MacAddictXIV, Seattle WA, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 09:14 (133 days ago) @ Korny

Assuming what people were saying about what caused the bug, I might lose access to four of those because Bungie thinks having a few extra Enhancement cores is too much for the people who ground out those Pinnacle challenges.


You mean, thousands upon thousands an hour. Reacquire them, yes. But if you sharded them, you probably aren't using them very often.


No, not the exploit folks, I mean when you complete the Pinnacle challenge, you can currently grab a copy of the weapon on your other two characters. That's what Bungie was supposedly trying to remove, and which caused the bug in the first place.

Gotcha, I read that wrong, my bad.

Now I have to sit and wait for Bungie to sort their mess because they made an exploit for a tiny fraction of the community.


Please at least be rational. I know you are not happy about this happening and you already don't think too highly about Bungie, but come on man. You are anecdotally saying that this is affecting a large portion of people while it is only giving a gain to a tiny fraction of the community. No one but Bungie knows the numbers. Nothing about this is optimal, but at least stand back from how it affects you and think about it in the shoes of a game developer. This is technically breaking a major system of their game. Yes, to a small portion of the community, but the temporary fix while they get a hotfix out is also only affecting a small portion of the community. If I was a developer I would probably do the same thing. Because I don't think so lowly about Bungie that they put 0 thought into this.

Here's the thing, it was a reactionary change made only an hour into the update going live.

Yep, that's how you stop things from getting worse.

Given how terrible Bungie seems to be at communicating within their own studio (source: Cody's book lol), the tiny fraction of people who could even do the exploit had probably already done it a hundred times over.

Or those are just the people who managed to do it before it was stopped.

Could Bungie have simply looked at the metrics for core acquisition and cut them off? Possibly. But instead, they pre-emptively cut off access to the weapons for the entire playerbase, even though the exploit was 100% unavailable to anyone else other than the tiny group. No matter how small you think the amount of players chasing Pinnacle weapons is (which again, we have three people in a single Crucible team going after them this past week alone).

They stopped the bleeding. And it only temporarily hurts the players who will receive pinnacle weapons during the fixing period. I understand that it will be more people than those that will potentially receive a weapon. This did not stop progress to getting weapons, it just delayed when you receive it. Yes, that sucks. But it doesn't suck as much as the potential of a serious economy disaster. If this bug wasn't for just these small players and Bungie hadn't stopped it immediately it could have been so much worse. Now, the worst that happens is people don't get their Pinnacle weapons immediately.

That's a win in my books.

Note. The way Bungie worded it, Wavesplitter is going to be a Hotfix. The Pinnacle weapons were stated to be unavailable "until a fix can be deployed".

Yeah, they really need to get better at wording those...

And I'm not going to go and say Bungie is stupid.


I mean, they already have a poor track record as far a decision-making as a studio, which was always chalked up to being Activision's fault. But even after the split, they still do stupid stuff. And as Forrest Gump says...

Easy to judge when you're on this side. You are just also condemning now and asking question later.

Probably should read ALL replies before jumping in, but...

by Claude Errera @, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 12:48 (133 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

I wanted to chime in here before I forget what bothers me so much.

This did not stop progress to getting weapons, it just delayed when you receive it.

This is a best-case scenario. This is what Bungie WANTS, yes. I would NOT bet anything that was valuable to me that it will work this way. (There are plenty of examples so far of attempted fixes that just don't work the way they're supposed to.)

(And yes, now I'm starting to lean towards Cheapley's cynicism. Hard not to - this is the second Bungie-created bug in less than a week where their short-term solution affects me personally, and negatively, even though I did nothing wrong in either case.)

Let me clarify that a little more: we're not talking about a game-breaking exploit that a player found - we're talking about a bug introduced by Bungie to FIX A PROBLEM THAT DIDN'T REALLY EXIST. The way they set things up, you could earn 7*(X-1) cores when finishing a pinnacle weapon quest, where X is the number of characters you run. (This is assuming you actually want a copy of the weapon, of course.) So we're talking between 0-14 cores, total, available ONLY to people who've finished a difficult optional quest.

Rather than just letting those people get those "extra" cores, they decided to change things up so that you couldn't grab more than one of these guns. They made a pretty big mistake, though - and made life harder for players, rather than their old philosophy ("if we screw up, you can take advantage of the screwup until we fix it"). (Side note: they're not necessarily extra; some players don't WANT the cores, they want the goddamn weapons, because they don't like switching weapons when they switch characters. Those people are just outright screwed - that's Bungie saying "no, you can't play the way you want, you have to play the way we think is best.")

And remember, the number of players affected is tiny. (No matter what number you think collects pinnacle weapons - Braytech tells me 17% of Braytech users have collected The Recluse, for example, but the population that uses a tool like that will DEFINITELY have a higher percentage than the general public - the number of THOSE people who had finished the quest before reset yesterday but hadn't redeemed it by 1 hour past reset yesterday is almost certainly in the single digits, most likely below a percent or two of players.) Letting those people (well, whatever fraction of those people were able to get online quickly and exploit the bug in the middle of a work/schoolday) collect a lot of cores does... what, now, to the general economy?

Oh, that's right... pretty much nothing. :(

(Those people are ALREADY in a group that has the best weapons, the best armor - those people are already 'rich'. Making them richer affects you and me almost not at all.)

Now, the worst that happens is people don't get their Pinnacle weapons immediately.

Nope. The worst that happens is that pinnacle weapons break for everyone who doesn't have one yet. You might think that's unlikely - but it's NOT IMPOSSIBLE, GIVEN THE CURRENT SITUATION.

I'm willing to hold off on the lashing until we see a final result on these things (Sentry Armor in Gambit Prime, pinnacle weapons across the board)... but I'm not willing to say that everything will be fine in the end, because there are already existing cases where they've just decided that the temporary fix was good enough.

Let me be crystal-clear about one thing: I'm not mad that Destiny isn't perfect. I understand mistakes are made, and I understand that fixing them can be uncomfortable. The thing that grinds my gears here is the attitude behind the changes. The original 'problem' was tiny; let's be honest, 14 cores don't add much to your abilities. The 'fix' caused bigger problems to a larger group of players - but if Bungie had just focused on fixing the problem they caused WITHOUT inconveniencing anyone, I'd have been fine with it. The potential problems introduced by some small number of already-elite players getting their hands on thousands of cores are pretty damned close to irrelevant.

This was not a 'game-breaking' bug, like, say, bad damage numbers on Prometheus Lens. Bungie decided that our inconvenience was less relevant than their sense of fairness, when fixing a problem that THEY CREATED, trying to modify a situation that didn't really need modifying. And that value judgement - we're less important - is one that's relatively new to them, as a company... and one I don't like, at all.

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Probably should read ALL replies before jumping in, but...

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 14:15 (133 days ago) @ Claude Errera

So we're talking between 0-14 cores, total, available ONLY to people who've finished a difficult optional quest.


Wait... is that really it? 14 cores is what all this is about?

I remember doing that thing where you buy a bunch of mats from Spider, turn them in to Vance for rep, then dismantle the stuff from the reward packages. I got over 70 cores from that and it wasn't even a bug. My thumb nearly fell off from pushing A so much, but still.

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Probably should read ALL replies before jumping in, but...

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 14:27 (133 days ago) @ stabbim

14 cores per Pinnacle weapon. So 42 cores total. Yeah, seems sort of silly doesn’t it?

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So, uh, the thing about 42

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 21:48 (133 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I learned this years ago. Something special about 42 (besides that one thing), one of your basic properties of 42, in fact a crucial, key thing about 42... it's less than 70.

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+1

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 14:34 (133 days ago) @ Claude Errera
edited by Korny, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 14:40

This was not a 'game-breaking' bug, like, say, bad damage numbers on Prometheus Lens. Bungie decided that our inconvenience was less relevant than their sense of fairness, when fixing a problem that THEY CREATED, trying to modify a situation that didn't really need modifying. And that value judgement - we're less important - is one that's relatively new to them, as a company... and one I don't like, at all.

I think it's important to note that while Bungie has a history of doing things like this, people have always chalked it up to being Activision's doing. But Bungie has been on their own for months, and they're still handling self-caused issues terribly, so I don't really think it's relatively new at all, we just can't point the finger at anyone else anymore.

I notice that they do things strictly for the sake of the "economy" (like when they immediately shut down people extracting Cores from the curated Trust), in a game with essentially zero player-to-player economy.
When they use that term, they exclusively refer to that specific player, and how much grind he has to do to be able to infuse his gear, or masterwork a single stat on his guns or armor. For other players, their impact with the game is entirely unaffected.

The irony is that killing off access to our Pinnacle rewards is directly affecting the economy for all players who haven't completed those quests:

1. Because they wanted to make the in-game economy worse for us by denying us the two bonus weapon drops. Because of 14 Enhancement cores. Not even enough to level a single weapon.

2. And they decided that it's best to shut us out of our reward because they messed up trying to do that first thing, despite the fact that access to that loot is the product that we are paying for with our time and effort. Nope, it's best to punish those who haven't done anything wrong, because of the tiny handful of people who can personally benefit from Bungie's mistake.


Whether we get the weapons available in a week or a month, it stinks on principle, because it's yet another a mistake on Bungie's end that they are punishing everyone for. And like Claude was saying, this isn't Prometheus or Sentry Perk levels of gamebreaking. This was down to the reduction of an individual's grind, for a very small group of people.

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by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 17:37 (133 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Let me clarify that a little more: we're not talking about a game-breaking exploit that a player found - we're talking about a bug introduced by Bungie to FIX A PROBLEM THAT DIDN'T REALLY EXIST. The way they set things up, you could earn 7*(X-1) cores when finishing a pinnacle weapon quest, where X is the number of characters you run. (This is assuming you actually want a copy of the weapon, of course.) So we're talking between 0-14 cores, total, available ONLY to people who've finished a difficult optional quest.

I'm confused again. There's talk of people cheesing their ways to thousands of cores. Is that innacruate? If people really were generating 5,000+ enhancement cores, would that lessen your anger?

As usual, I'm all for banning players who willing exploit the game. If all this was over an additional 14 cores, then yeah, Bungie overreacted. If people really were getting over 2,000 cores, then I am glad Bungie cut things off for less than a week to solve things:

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by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 17:56 (133 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I'm confused again. There's talk of people cheesing their ways to thousands of cores. Is that innacruate? If people really were generating 5,000+ enhancement cores, would that lessen your anger?

Yes, you're confused. Yes, this current glitch let a small subset of people generate thousands of cores. This glitch is the result of Bungie trying to fix the fact that if you picked up Pinnacle quests on all the characters, you could get three copies of every gun, which you could then dismantle for cores (at a whopping 7 per gun!). So instead of letting people get a small pittance of extra cores, Bungie created a situation in which an even smaller subset of players could get thousands.

As usual, I'm all for banning players who willing exploit the game. If all this was over an additional 14 cores, then yeah, Bungie overreacted. If people really were getting over 2,000 cores, then I am glad Bungie cut things off for less than a week to solve things:

Why? What did that person having 12,000 cores do to you?

If I'd have been able to do this glitch, I'd have done it for as long as possible to accumulate as many cores as possible so that I could ignore that whole stupid mechanic going forward.

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by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 18:31 (133 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I'm confused again. There's talk of people cheesing their ways to thousands of cores. Is that innacruate? If people really were generating 5,000+ enhancement cores, would that lessen your anger?


Yes, you're confused. Yes, this current glitch let a small subset of people generate thousands of cores. This glitch is the result of Bungie trying to fix the fact that if you picked up Pinnacle quests on all the characters, you could get three copies of every gun, which you could then dismantle for cores (at a whopping 7 per gun!). So instead of letting people get a small pittance of extra cores, Bungie created a situation in which an even smaller subset of players could get thousands.

I agree, Bungie should have left it alone. But I disagree that they should have done nothing once the larger exploit did occur. I think Bungie should attempt to fix every exploit as quickly as possible, no matter if it's gameplay breaking like the infinite Shadowshot or Monty Python emote, or economy breaking like this current one.

As usual, I'm all for banning players who willing exploit the game. If all this was over an additional 14 cores, then yeah, Bungie overreacted. If people really were getting over 2,000 cores, then I am glad Bungie cut things off for less than a week to solve things:


Why? What did that person having 12,000 cores do to you?

Because I don't like people who cheese or cheat.


If I'd have been able to do this glitch, I'd have done it for as long as possible to accumulate as many cores as possible so that I could ignore that whole stupid mechanic going forward.

I'm all for Bungie eliminating the gameplay loop where I never have enough of X to infuse the Y I had to hope dropped from a limited supply of Powerful Engrams. Playing Destiny should be about playing Destiny. At the same time, if the economy or grind gets to be too bad, I'd rather play something else until it gets better than be one of the few who are lucky enough to circumvent the rules while the rest of the player base has to suffer under them.

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by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 18:57 (133 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I agree, Bungie should have left it alone. But I disagree that they should have done nothing once the larger exploit did occur. I think Bungie should attempt to fix every exploit as quickly as possible, no matter if it's gameplay breaking like the infinite Shadowshot or Monty Python emote, or economy breaking like this current one.

The economy is already inherently broken, as far as I'm concerned.

Why? What did that person having 12,000 cores do to you?


Because I don't like people who cheese or cheat.

Ah, so nothing. Got it.

I'm all for Bungie eliminating the gameplay loop where I never have enough of X to infuse the Y I had to hope dropped from a limited supply of Powerful Engrams. Playing Destiny should be about playing Destiny. At the same time, if the economy or grind gets to be too bad, I'd rather play something else until it gets better than be one of the few who are lucky enough to circumvent the rules while the rest of the player base has to suffer under them.

The fact that people felt the need to do this exploit should serve as proof enough to Bungie that the whole system sucks. If people could get a reasonable amount of cores just by playing the game, no one would have bothered. Well, not no one--we are talking about a group of players that spent hours shooting into a cave instead of just playing the game.

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by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 19:35 (133 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Why? What did that person having 12,000 cores do to you?


Because I don't like people who cheese or cheat.


Ah, so nothing. Got it.

I don't like people who dismiss my opinions as worthless while screaming and crying for everyone to listen to theirs, either.

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by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 19:46 (133 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Why? What did that person having 12,000 cores do to you?


Because I don't like people who cheese or cheat.


Ah, so nothing. Got it.


I don't like people who dismiss my opinions as worthless while screaming and crying for everyone to listen to theirs, either.

Really? That's where you want to go? You're pretty good at doing that yourself.

I asked what someone having 12,000 cores does to you. How does it affect you? It doesn't. You can not like cheesing all you want, your hardline stance against against "cheesing," and your desire to hand out punishment to anyone who would play the game in a manner you don't agree with is about as asinine as Bungie's decision-making process regarding this whole situation.

I hope everyone who had this glitch made the most of it, and I hope Bungie doesn't take their cores away. It's truly a blessing for those lucky few to not have to think about this stupid system for the foreseeable future.

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by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 20:32 (133 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Why? What did that person having 12,000 cores do to you?


Because I don't like people who cheese or cheat.


Ah, so nothing. Got it.


I don't like people who dismiss my opinions as worthless while screaming and crying for everyone to listen to theirs, either.


Really? That's where you want to go? You're pretty good at doing that yourself.

Where else can I go with you treating me like complete crap? Did I jump in to insult you? Did I tell you that you were completely wrong? Did I immediately dismiss you and your opinions as asinine? No. I shared a differing opinion while agreeing with many of your larger points and I got aggressive snark in return.


I asked what someone having 12,000 cores does to you. How does it affect you? It doesn't. You can not like cheesing all you want, your hardline stance against against "cheesing," and your desire to hand out punishment to anyone who would play the game in a manner you don't agree with is about as asinine as Bungie's decision-making process regarding this whole situation.

I hope everyone who had this glitch made the most of it, and I hope Bungie doesn't take their cores away. It's truly a blessing for those lucky few to not have to think about this stupid system for the foreseeable future.

Right, and what did them having 12,000 cores do for you? Praising people for striking it rich and cheesing an exploit and thus denying you a chance to do so seems pretty silly to me. If these people had any brains they'd keep this secret and grab just as many cores as they needed. The likely end result of all this is Enhancement Cores themselves are deprecated in favor of some new oppressive currency.

The real solution probably is what you originally suggested and what I have always advocated for: Putting Destiny down if it is causing you grief. I do it at least once a year. I did it on day two of Black Armory and still refuse to play that content because of the bad taste the Power Level wall left behind. If enough of us did it we'd see change, real change, pretty quickly.

You know what won't help at all, though? Being an ass to people who only agree with you 95%.

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by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 20:42 (133 days ago) @ Ragashingo

You know what won't help at all, though? Being an ass to people who only agree with you 95%.

Really? That's all you seem to do!

I did absolutely nothing to insult you, and I got some passive aggressive bullshit in response.

The irony of you coming at me for "dismissing your opinion" while at the same time telling Cody to get back to you when he has a reasonable argument is astounding.

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by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 21:36 (133 days ago) @ cheapLEY

You know what won't help at all, though? Being an ass to people who only agree with you 95%.


Really? That's all you seem to do!

I did absolutely nothing to insult you, and I got some passive aggressive bullshit in response.

The irony of you coming at me for "dismissing your opinion" while at the same time telling Cody to get back to you when he has a reasonable argument is astounding.

Cody pretending that someone would have to read Bungie's mind or they wouldn't realize that generating thousands of Enhancement Cores wasn't a normal part of the game when nothing even remotely close was possible before is not a "reasonable argument." Engaging him on that was not even remotely worth it. It's laughable and desperate that you're falling back to that.

Look, we both agree that the situation with enhancement cores is not good... where "not good" means it along with Power Level is killing the game. Where we differ is you seem to think that any and all actions are justified because of it, where as I don't. Sure, it's just a game, and the effects of this particular cheese don't have much effect on me. But the culture of cheesing and exploiting most certainly has and does. For example, I do not enjoy cheesing my way through a Raid, but doing so has long been not only the accepted way for most to run Raids, it has often been the only way anybody was interested in.

I enjoyed the Vault of Glass Oracles and Confluxes sequence, and yet the default strategy even among DBOers became sniping them from well beyond the play space. Similarly, I enjoyed the Abyss section of Crota's End and the only the fly teamwork it required to get a whole team across, and yet it eventually became everyone holding back while a single cloaked Hunter walked the entire path with zero excitement.

It goes on and on, this culture of "if you can cheese it, do so!" poisons the game for those of us who would like a challenge and who enjoy teamwork or a challenge or heck, just enjoy getting to play with friends longer rather than shorter. It poisons PVP too, but there's almost nobody that's going to argue that a player using an emote to merge into a wall was ok.

If content is too hard or unforgiving (Riven boss fight) or the grind is too great (Enhancement Cores) I'd far prefer Bungie fix it than circumventing things. Is my position really a "Ah, so nothing. Got it." level of unreasonable?

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by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 22:04 (133 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I enjoyed the Vault of Glass Oracles and Confluxes sequence, and yet the default strategy even among DBOers became sniping them from well beyond the play space. Similarly, I enjoyed the Abyss section of Crota's End and the only the fly teamwork it required to get a whole team across, and yet it eventually became everyone holding back while a single cloaked Hunter walked the entire path with zero excitement.

I literally never saw either of those things. I don’t doubt it happened, but I did both of those raids dozens of times, and I never saw anyone do either of those things, and it was suggested very infrequently. I didn’t do VoG while it was still current, to be fair, but I was doing Crota while it was new. There are plenty of people willing to do things legitimately.

It goes on and on, this culture of "if you can cheese it, do so!" poisons the game for those of us who would like a challenge and who enjoy teamwork or a challenge or heck, just enjoy getting to play with friends longer rather than shorter.

I’d still argue that the fact that people feel the need to cheese something indicates a problem with the way the game is designed. I never saw those cheeses, but I wouldn’t blame someone for doing them if they were just trying to get the one drop they wanted, whether it be the One armor piece they need for light level or that rare gun drop. That’s the difference. If you don’t want to participate in those methods, find a like-minded group instead of hating the players that are taking the most efficient route through an activity they might not be all that interested in for the thing they actually want.

If content is too hard or unforgiving (Riven boss fight) or the grind is too great (Enhancement Cores) I'd far prefer Bungie fix it than circumventing things. Is my position really a "Ah, so nothing. Got it." level of unreasonable?

We’ll never know, as you didn’t say any of that. You’re only stated position was people should be banned for daring to get some free cores.

I wasn’t aware some light-hearted snark was a mortal sin to your sensibilities, but, again, to be fair, I guess I should, because this conversation plays out almost every time you and I interact on this forum. Maybe one of us will learn from it at some point. Fair warning, it probably won’t be me. (:

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by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 00:33 (133 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I enjoyed the Vault of Glass Oracles and Confluxes sequence, and yet the default strategy even among DBOers became sniping them from well beyond the play space. Similarly, I enjoyed the Abyss section of Crota's End and the only the fly teamwork it required to get a whole team across, and yet it eventually became everyone holding back while a single cloaked Hunter walked the entire path with zero excitement.


I literally never saw either of those things. I don’t doubt it happened, but I did both of those raids dozens of times, and I never saw anyone do either of those things, and it was suggested very infrequently. I didn’t do VoG while it was still current, to be fair, but I was doing Crota while it was new. There are plenty of people willing to do things legitimately.

In Vault of Glass, the default strategy for the final boss was to designate three people who knew what they were doing to be teleported and three people who didn't to be left behind. This lead to some players being totally unable to function if they happened to get teleported in with the relic. It always saddens me when I come across someone who has never done some part part of a Raid or another because their teams have only ever cheesed it. I can easily recall that happening in a few of the Raids. More often in some than others, for sure, but I suspect it's happened in most of them to me at some point or another.

It goes on and on, this culture of "if you can cheese it, do so!" poisons the game for those of us who would like a challenge and who enjoy teamwork or a challenge or heck, just enjoy getting to play with friends longer rather than shorter.


I’d still argue that the fact that people feel the need to cheese something indicates a problem with the way the game is designed. I never saw those cheeses, but I wouldn’t blame someone for doing them if they were just trying to get the one drop they wanted, whether it be the One armor piece they need for light level or that rare gun drop. That’s the difference. If you don’t want to participate in those methods, find a like-minded group instead of hating the players that are taking the most efficient route through an activity they might not be all that interested in for the thing they actually want.

It can indicate a problem, but not always. I got the experience of helping some people beat Last Wish for the first time the intended way well over a month after its release. They'd beaten it more times than me, but never without the cluster rocket cheese.

If content is too hard or unforgiving (Riven boss fight) or the grind is too great (Enhancement Cores) I'd far prefer Bungie fix it than circumventing things. Is my position really a "Ah, so nothing. Got it." level of unreasonable?


We’ll never know, as you didn’t say any of that. You’re only stated position was people should be banned for daring to get some free cores.

You know, I did make a few posts between then and now. You quoted most of them during our back and forth yet you responded to my question as if I only had the one post. Curious that...


I wasn’t aware some light-hearted snark was a mortal sin to your sensibilities, but, again, to be fair, I guess I should, because this conversation plays out almost every time you and I interact on this forum. Maybe one of us will learn from it at some point. Fair warning, it probably won’t be me. (:

Nah, you're fine. And I'm having fun making my point. It is not a simple one. It's not just "everyone who uses an exploit should be banned." It's more about the acceptance of any and all cheesing and exploits slowly leading to a community of gamers who become toxic to the community and to other players. At some point players know that what they are doing is against the rules up to and including straight up cheating, yet nobody ever seems to be willing to call those players out on their behavior anymore allowing it to spread further and wider.

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by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 23:03 (133 days ago) @ Ragashingo

There is a difference between cheesing the raids and getting 1000 cores.

The raid is ostensibly fun and challenging to do the 'real' way. Earning 1000 cores is bullshit busy work, and needing cores gets in the way of fun.

It's like Bungie lost sight of why people play Destiny. And yes, everyone likes different things but I think most people play to have fun and do cool things with their friends. Needing items and requiring grind to powerup actively impedes your ability to hop on and play fun activities with your buddies.

Find your game's strengths and play them up, while getting rid of what gets in the way of that.

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Agreed.

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 00:12 (133 days ago) @ Cody Miller

There is a difference between cheesing the raids and getting 1000 cores.

The raid is ostensibly fun and challenging to do the 'real' way. Earning 1000 cores is bullshit busy work, and needing cores gets in the way of fun.

It's like Bungie lost sight of why people play Destiny. And yes, everyone likes different things but I think most people play to have fun and do cool things with their friends. Needing items and requiring grind to powerup actively impedes your ability to hop on and play fun activities with your buddies.

Find your game's strengths and play them up, while getting rid of what gets in the way of that.

While there is some amount of fun that can be derived from giving the player limited resources and forcing them to choose to upgrade X or Y... it has gotten almost to the point that more often than not I seem to be almost out of resources and am being asked to split them between A,B,C,D,E,F,G, and H. And while that is happening, I can't play some of the activities I want (without suffering a penalty to damage dealt and taken) until I grind out the resources to upgrade all those letters...

But Destiny players are all too eager to use cheeses even when there's nothing to gain. During Last Wish, for instance, the crew I played with beat the Raid a couple of times without any cheese but we kept encounter people who never beat it without cheesing it. That was very disappointing. Some of that for sure comes from the fact that Riven is a very unforgiving encounter. But I will continue to argue that some of it comes because too many are not willing to ever call out any cheeses or cheats for what they are.

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Agreed.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 00:18 (133 days ago) @ Ragashingo

While there is some amount of fun that can be derived from giving the player limited resources and forcing them to choose to upgrade X or Y...

When those limited resources are absolutely finite. In Deus Ex you get a set amount of experience as you progress through the game to put toward abilities. You can't grind for it; you get what you get. This is meaningful progression that isn't bullshit. When there is no upper bound to what you can earn it becomes pointless because it's not decision making so much as just a test of how much time you want to spend earning resources. Because you could just grind out cores all day long and power everything up. It's not the resources that are limited: it's your time.

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Agreed.

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 06:34 (133 days ago) @ Cody Miller

When those limited resources are absolutely finite. In Deus Ex you get a set amount of experience as you progress through the game to put toward abilities. You can't grind for it; you get what you get. This is meaningful progression that isn't bullshit. When there is no upper bound to what you can earn it becomes pointless because it's not decision making so much as just a test of how much time you want to spend earning resources. Because you could just grind out cores all day long and power everything up. It's not the resources that are limited: it's your time.

I’m okay with time being a resource, if that time has meaning. If guns could be Masterworked simply by the act of the player using them, it would accomplish much the same thing, but it would feel meaningful. The guns you like would become Masterworked simply because you like them and use them a bunch. Finding the balance of time there would be tricky.

My issue isn’t in spending time with the game. The game is fun. My issue is that largely my time feels wasted doing checklists for bullshit resources. Oh, sweet, let’s knock out some more wanted bounties, as if that’s compelling content.

I am okay with a progression system, I am just tired of having the activities for any real progression being dictated to me.

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Agreed.

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 08:44 (133 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I am okay with a progression system, I am just tired of having the activities for any real progression being dictated to me.

Yeah this is really my only big complaint with current Destiny economy. Spending hours in the game is fun, but the progression is not based on time played but on luck and unfun grind. I have played a lot of Season of the Drifter but I am level 385 and have 0 new exotics and very few of the new gear despite a lot of time played. While I'm loving the gameplay and activities, that part does irk me.

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*Raises hand

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 06:31 (133 days ago) @ Ragashingo

There is a difference between cheesing the raids and getting 1000 cores.

The raid is ostensibly fun and challenging to do the 'real' way. Earning 1000 cores is bullshit busy work, and needing cores gets in the way of fun.

It's like Bungie lost sight of why people play Destiny. And yes, everyone likes different things but I think most people play to have fun and do cool things with their friends. Needing items and requiring grind to powerup actively impedes your ability to hop on and play fun activities with your buddies.

Find your game's strengths and play them up, while getting rid of what gets in the way of that.


While there is some amount of fun that can be derived from giving the player limited resources and forcing them to choose to upgrade X or Y... it has gotten almost to the point that more often than not I seem to be almost out of resources and am being asked to split them between A,B,C,D,E,F,G, and H. And while that is happening, I can't play some of the activities I want (without suffering a penalty to damage dealt and taken) until I grind out the resources to upgrade all those letters...

But Destiny players are all too eager to use cheeses even when there's nothing to gain. During Last Wish, for instance, the crew I played with beat the Raid a couple of times without any cheese but we kept encounter people who never beat it without cheesing it. That was very disappointing. Some of that for sure comes from the fact that Riven is a very unforgiving encounter. But I will continue to argue that some of it comes because too many are not willing to ever call out any cheeses or cheats for what they are.

I have never beaten The Last Wish “properly”. I’ve spent a couple hours attempting it with several groups, so I’m familiar with the proper strategy. And in my opinion, that fight is possibly the worst, least fun encounter in all of Destiny. If it weren’t for the cheese, I’d never have gone back to Last Wish. That’s, like, totally just my opinion man. BUT, the raid is not a self-contained activity. It is also one of the best activities for levelling up. Plus it’s the only way to get certain awesome weapons, and one of the few sources of armor with enhanced perks. So when a cheese was discovered that’s us skip the majority of the Riven encounter, I personally was all for it.

That’s the thing with a game like Destiny, where activities are not simply things to do for their own enjoyment, but pathways to other unique content (such as exclusive weapons). If it weren’t for the Riven cheese, I’d never have bothered with trying to beat Last Wish, which means I’d never have gotten 1000 Voices. Without that weapon, my Gambit experience over the past ~6 months would have been significantly different. A bad encounter (IMO) is no big deal on its own, but when it stands as a barrier between the player and other fun, unique content, well that’s a whole different situation.

This is where I have a deep personal disconnect with Bungie’s supposed design goals. They seem to believe that things like hitting level 700 is some kind of inherently meaningful achievement. But it isn’t. Not for me, at least, or anyone I play with. I don’t feel a sense of accomplishment from it. I think “thank god I don’t have to worry about that crap anymore, and I can just focus on doing things purely for the fun of it”. Raids hit a similar point for me. Obviously, there is some inherent satisfaction that comes from completing a raid, at least the first few times. But when it can take 20, 40, or even 60 completions before you get 1000 Voices or Anarchy to drop, we’re well past the point of an activity being intrinsically rewarding. On a side note, I think this specific issue is why so many people have a cynical point of view when it comes to some of Bungie’s design goals. When they talk about power levels or infusion systems as being part of a system that feels rewarding, many of us call “BS” on that because our experience with those systems is literally the exact opposite of what Bungie claims to believe they are.

Back to the main point though, all of this shows very poor judgement on Bungie’s part. The initial “problem” was so not a problem that it never occurred to most of us that it wasn’t by design. You earn a pinnacle weapon by completing a triumph that is shared across 3 characters, and all 3 characters get to claim the drop. It seemed perfectly fair and logical. Yes, you could dismantle 1 or 2 of the duplicates and get a handful of cores out of it, but many players just opted to keep the multiple drops so they could experiment with different mods and/or not worry about transferring guns between characters. It was a nice, fair, player-friendly system. But Bungie is so apparently paranoid about even the most minor bypassing of their player time-throttling system (enchantment cores) that they decided to patch that out. In doing so they created a far more rare but also far more lucrative exploit. And their solution to that problem was to take action in such a way that shows, yet again, that they are more protective of their throttling system than they are of the player’s experience. I don’t throw the Gambit Prime armor glitch in this category, because that was directly impacting players’ experience in a negative way. But cores are not something that anyone wants, likes, or enjoys.

So all in-all, I feel that your stance against “exploiters” is misplaced in this case. Destiny is a wonderful game that also has a long history of putting frustrating and unnecessary barriers between the players and the things that players want to do in the game. Cores are one of the most obvious and flagrant examples of that trend. If bungie fucks up and introduces a bug that allows a tiny handful of players to bypass that bullshit design element, then good for those players as far as I’m concerned. It isn’t impacting any other players in a negative way. I’m just disappointed that Bungie has their priorities so utterly inverted in this particular case.

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*Raises hand

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 06:44 (133 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I got Anarchy on my third completion, thankfully. I really love that entire raid, but it’s nice to not have that hanging over my head now, so that if I do play it again, it will be because it’s fun and I want to.

I’ve still never beat Riven. The week my team spent trying to do it legitimately while blind was the most thoroughly unfun thing I’ve done in Destiny, and killed any motivation I had to complete that raid, cheese or not. If I hadn’t been blind and knew about the cheese, my experience would have been much better (on that encounter—doing the rest of that raid blind is near the top of the list of most fun things I’ve done in Destiny).

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*Raises hand

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 08:30 (133 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Yeah, we love everything except Riven. It’s like someone looks at all the frustrating clockwork that had to go right in the final Oryx encounter and said: “Yeah... I can top that.”

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*Raises hand

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 10:39 (132 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I honestly wonder what the difference is. I haven’t really thought about it much. I only ever did it a handful of times, but I liked the Oryx encounter in King’s Fall. It was difficult, but a single mistake didn’t guarantee a wipe. And the actually mechanics of the fight were fun to execute.

Riven isn’t “hard,” it’s just annoying. Like, oh, he flinched so I missed my eye and now we’re fucked.

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*Raises hand

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 11:16 (132 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I honestly wonder what the difference is. I haven’t really thought about it much. I only ever did it a handful of times, but I liked the Oryx encounter in King’s Fall. It was difficult, but a single mistake didn’t guarantee a wipe. And the actually mechanics of the fight were fun to execute.

Riven isn’t “hard,” it’s just annoying. Like, oh, he flinched so I missed my eye and now we’re fucked.

Oryx felt like a battle. Yes, there were semi-complex movements and mechanics involved, but the majority of the difficulty came from battling waves of dangerous enemies.

Riven doesn’t feel like a battle. You could take all the enemies out of the encounter, and it would still be a repetitive nuisance with wipe after wipe being caused by miscounting the eyes or slamming the wrong spot on a staircase. There is plenty of filler combat in it, but the encounter doesn’t hinge on any of it.

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*Raises hand

by MacAddictXIV, Seattle WA, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 11:24 (132 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I honestly wonder what the difference is. I haven’t really thought about it much. I only ever did it a handful of times, but I liked the Oryx encounter in King’s Fall. It was difficult, but a single mistake didn’t guarantee a wipe. And the actually mechanics of the fight were fun to execute.

Riven isn’t “hard,” it’s just annoying. Like, oh, he flinched so I missed my eye and now we’re fucked.


Oryx felt like a battle. Yes, there were semi-complex movements and mechanics involved, but the majority of the difficulty came from battling waves of dangerous enemies.

Riven doesn’t feel like a battle. You could take all the enemies out of the encounter, and it would still be a repetitive nuisance with wipe after wipe being caused by miscounting the eyes or slamming the wrong spot on a staircase. There is plenty of filler combat in it, but the encounter doesn’t hinge on any of it.

I mean, speak for yourself... Those snipers caused about 25% of my deaths.

*Raises hand

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 11:28 (132 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

I honestly wonder what the difference is. I haven’t really thought about it much. I only ever did it a handful of times, but I liked the Oryx encounter in King’s Fall. It was difficult, but a single mistake didn’t guarantee a wipe. And the actually mechanics of the fight were fun to execute.

Riven isn’t “hard,” it’s just annoying. Like, oh, he flinched so I missed my eye and now we’re fucked.


Oryx felt like a battle. Yes, there were semi-complex movements and mechanics involved, but the majority of the difficulty came from battling waves of dangerous enemies.

Riven doesn’t feel like a battle. You could take all the enemies out of the encounter, and it would still be a repetitive nuisance with wipe after wipe being caused by miscounting the eyes or slamming the wrong spot on a staircase. There is plenty of filler combat in it, but the encounter doesn’t hinge on any of it.


I mean, speak for yourself... Those snipers caused about 25% of my deaths.

But you wouldn't be so oblivious to the snipers if you weren't focused so hard on hitting the damn eyes...

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*Raises hand

by MacAddictXIV, Seattle WA, Tuesday, April 16, 2019, 08:31 (128 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I honestly wonder what the difference is. I haven’t really thought about it much. I only ever did it a handful of times, but I liked the Oryx encounter in King’s Fall. It was difficult, but a single mistake didn’t guarantee a wipe. And the actually mechanics of the fight were fun to execute.

Riven isn’t “hard,” it’s just annoying. Like, oh, he flinched so I missed my eye and now we’re fucked.


Oryx felt like a battle. Yes, there were semi-complex movements and mechanics involved, but the majority of the difficulty came from battling waves of dangerous enemies.

Riven doesn’t feel like a battle. You could take all the enemies out of the encounter, and it would still be a repetitive nuisance with wipe after wipe being caused by miscounting the eyes or slamming the wrong spot on a staircase. There is plenty of filler combat in it, but the encounter doesn’t hinge on any of it.


I mean, speak for yourself... Those snipers caused about 25% of my deaths.


But you wouldn't be so oblivious to the snipers if you weren't focused so hard on hitting the damn eyes...

I wish I could say that :D

I'm pretty confident I only died max 2 times while shooting the eyes (not counting at the end) from adds. And that is because I fell off the ledge into the adds.

Very well said

by marmot 1333 @, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 10:09 (132 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

- No text -

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Probably should read ALL replies before jumping in, but...

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 18:27 (133 days ago) @ Ragashingo

How can you read the developers mind?

If you are in a situation where you can keep acquiring weapons, how are you supposed to know it’s not just a clever thing to do just like buying seeds to sell to Vance?

You don’t. You are just doing what the game lets you do. Don’t blame the players.

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Come back when you have a reasonable argument.

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 18:32 (133 days ago) @ Cody Miller

- No text -

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Probably should read ALL replies before jumping in, but...

by MacAddictXIV, Seattle WA, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 07:56 (133 days ago) @ Cody Miller

How can you read the developers mind?

If you are in a situation where you can keep acquiring weapons, how are you supposed to know it’s not just a clever thing to do just like buying seeds to sell to Vance?

You don’t. You are just doing what the game lets you do. Don’t blame the players.

People keep bringing this up. I don't buy it for a second. If people can't spot obvious bugs in the code like this then they are naive or blind. Sure, I can't blame the players, unless they are intentionally doing an exploit.

I love how we have never talked about the infinite tether/nova bomb exploit. Yep, I love how people abused that and made Destiny unfun for so many people. Are you saying that was intentional? I don't know why I asked that question, I know you are going to say yes. It's exploits like that where, you are just being a dick and obviously abusing the game from what Bungie intended to make. Yeah, you can say "but we don't know what Bungie was trying to do" but you are just being naive.

Probably should read ALL replies before jumping in, but...

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 10:47 (132 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

How can you read the developers mind?

If you are in a situation where you can keep acquiring weapons, how are you supposed to know it’s not just a clever thing to do just like buying seeds to sell to Vance?

You don’t. You are just doing what the game lets you do. Don’t blame the players.


People keep bringing this up. I don't buy it for a second. If people can't spot obvious bugs in the code like this then they are naive or blind. Sure, I can't blame the players, unless they are intentionally doing an exploit.

I love how we have never talked about the infinite tether/nova bomb exploit. Yep, I love how people abused that and made Destiny unfun for so many people. Are you saying that was intentional? I don't know why I asked that question, I know you are going to say yes. It's exploits like that where, you are just being a dick and obviously abusing the game from what Bungie intended to make. Yeah, you can say "but we don't know what Bungie was trying to do" but you are just being naive.

Here's a place where Cruel's distinction between bugs that affect others and bugs that only affect one player comes into play.

The infinite tether/nova bomb bugs (and the sentry armor bug) are bugs that BREAK THE GAME FOR PEOPLE NOT EXPLOITING IT.

The infinite cores bug affects nobody but the exploiter.

As a hippie musical once taught me, be whatever you are, do whatever you want to do, just so long as you don't hurt anybody.

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Probably should read ALL replies before jumping in, but...

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 11:04 (132 days ago) @ Claude Errera

The infinite cores bug affects nobody but the exploiter.

The counter is that having fully Masterworked gear does give you an advantage over other players. I don't actually know how significant it is (not very, I think), but it is there.

Not to mention the "advantage" of being able to infuse as you wish and make the gear you like actually usable in high level activities.

But . . .

Well, as far as I can tell, if this bug gave some schmucks like me the ability to catch up with some streamer that plays the game as a full time job, then I'm all for it.

Probably should read ALL replies before jumping in, but...

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 11:19 (132 days ago) @ cheapLEY

The infinite cores bug affects nobody but the exploiter.


The counter is that having fully Masterworked gear does give you an advantage over other players. I don't actually know how significant it is (not very, I think), but it is there.

Not to mention the "advantage" of being able to infuse as you wish and make the gear you like actually usable in high level activities.

Yeah, okay. Technically, I suppose that's true.

I already have all the gear I want to use infused at top level, and I haven't exploited that bug - doing so would just make things EASIER for me. (And I'd argue that most of the people who get pinnacle weapons already play enough that this makes doing what they want easier, rather than making something out of reach suddenly in reach. But that's a much squishier argument, since I have no actual stats.)

Regardless, it's not game-breaking, the way that infinite novas were game-breaking, or instagibbing Primevals was game-breaking.

I still think there's a clear line between one type of bug and the other.

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Probably should read ALL replies before jumping in, but...

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 11:23 (132 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Oh, you're absolutely right. Infinite Nova Bombs or whatever is clearly in another realm compared to infinite enhancement cores.

Just out of curiosity, how many Enhancement Cores do you have? I imagine you're on the higher end of the scale around here.

I have around 40. The most I've ever had was right around 100. I can't imagine having 1,000, or even more.

Probably should read ALL replies before jumping in, but...

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 11:27 (132 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Oh, you're absolutely right. Infinite Nova Bombs or whatever is clearly in another realm compared to infinite enhancement cores.

Just out of curiosity, how many Enhancement Cores do you have? I imagine you're on the higher end of the scale around here.

I have around 40. The most I've ever had was right around 100. I can't imagine having 1,000, or even more.

I think I have about 125 right now. I was up over 150 a few days ago (I'd decided to do a bunch of Spider bounties for some, and then I got 3 curated weapons in a row in Bergusia forge, all dupes, which gave me 21 more), but I upgraded a bunch of stuff, and now I'm back down to 125.

These days, I'm usually between 50-100. I've never been near 200.

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Probably should read ALL replies before jumping in, but...

by Harmanimus, Thursday, April 11, 2019, 14:52 (132 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Up to an additional 25% damage reduction of Weapon Damage while in Super. (I don’t have anything in depth, but take the damage you would normally receive in the super and reduce that by 25% if you are running 5 full MW armor)

So, not an incidental amount, though the issue of DR while in Super is its own bag of cats.

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 10:10 (133 days ago) @ Korny

Given how terrible Bungie seems to be at communicating within their own studio (source: Cody's book lol)

Which I've spent a ton of time working on lately instead of playing Destiny :-p

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 09:19 (133 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

Nothing about this is optimal, but at least stand back from how it affects you and think about it in the shoes of a game developer.

Honestly, no. Why should I? Bungie has a long history of anti-player decisions just like this one. I’m not a game developer, and I don’t give a shit how hard it is to do their job. I don’t get a “but my job is hard!” free pass if I forget to tighten a lug nut or oil drain plug. Why do they? I’m a player, and I want the product I’ve spent literally hundreds of dollars on at this point to work when I turn it on.

It only makes matters worse when it’s in regards to a material that no one fucking likes or wants in the game anyway, and that this bug is apparently the result of them trying to prevent players from getting a measly 14 extra cores per weapon.

At some point they need to just get the stick out of their ass and make an actually good decision that’s not just telling their players to get fucked, which is what this feels like for a lot of people.

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by MacAddictXIV, Seattle WA, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 11:04 (133 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Nothing about this is optimal, but at least stand back from how it affects you and think about it in the shoes of a game developer.


Honestly, no. Why should I?

Because we are now in the age where Players seem to think they get a say in how game developers make games. So yes, if you expect that say, then you have to understand there is another side to it and not just your own. If this was before that, then you would grumble that something doesn't work and continue playing the game you bought.

Bungie has a long history of anti-player decisions just like this one.

That is your view and I respect your opinion, but I disagree.

I’m not a game developer, and I don’t give a shit how hard it is to do their job. I don’t get a “but my job is hard!” free pass if I forget to tighten a lug nut or oil drain plug. Why do they?

1. That is unfair to use a mechanical analogy that involves things that could cost people their lives. Mechanics have to be held to a standard because they could accidentally kill people. If Bungie was held to the same standard then you would get content at 10% of the rate because they would be going through 10-15 different revisions of checks and sign offs.

And giving someone a free pass and trying to understand the difficulty and time frame that is involved is very different.

I’m a player, and I want the product I’ve spent literally hundreds of dollars on at this point to work when I turn it on.

Even if I set aside the money aspect for a second, you are want things to just work. All the time. You are wanting perfection from people who make your games. For you. You don't care who those people are. But you also add in that you payed money. So you are saying, that because of this, and other passed imperfections that the money you payed isn't worth it. Okay, that's your choice. I personally think the 100+ dollars I've spent on a less than perfect game for hundreds of hours of fun was worth it.

At some point they need to just get the stick out of their ass and make an actually good decision that’s not just telling their players to get fucked, which is what this feels like for a lot of people.

At some point gamers need to get the stick out of their ass and realize that you have the right to spend your money how you want but that doesn't give you the right to spend money on something and expect perfection. I can understand that you spent your money and time on a weapon and you deserve that. Yeah, you earned it. But to think that you were wrong and that people are intentionally fucking you over just makes you seem like an entitled asshole.

If you honestly think that a game company is purposely trying to fuck you, then you really need to take a break from gaming.

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 11:56 (133 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

I don’t expect perfection.

I do expect a basic amount of respect for player’s time, which is something Bungie really struggles with. This is just another straw, another mark against.

It’s not that I don’t have empathy for them. I have no doubts that they have a whole heap of bullshit to deal with. It’s just that most of these problems are of their own making, and I have very little sympathy for a player-hostile decision in response to a bug that came about due to another player-hostile attempt at “fixing” a non-issue, which was only a problem due to Bungie’s asinine insistence at keeping a restrictive progression system in place.

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by MacAddictXIV, Seattle WA, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 12:16 (133 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I don’t expect perfection.

I do expect a basic amount of respect for player’s time, which is something Bungie really struggles with. This is just another straw, another mark against.

It’s not that I don’t have empathy for them. I have no doubts that they have a whole heap of bullshit to deal with. It’s just that most of these problems are of their own making, and I have very little sympathy for a player-hostile decision in response to a bug that came about due to another player-hostile attempt at “fixing” a non-issue, which was only a problem due to Bungie’s asinine insistence at keeping a restrictive progression system in place.

And I can accept that view coming from what you have said. I don't however tend to treat generalizations or lumping in your experience as mine. Or assume information about things. I'm not saying you have done all of this, but I have seen it and it really irks me. I also don't believe in blame placed or voiced completely on one source. We all make choices, and you have stated above that choice to play Destiny is slowly being wittled down. Again, I can respect that choice. I just know that overall what people think of Destiny is not what I see. And I can only tell myself that what is being said is "your opinion" before I have to make a stand and say, no, you are lumping all players into this demonization of Bungie, a developer of a game I really enjoy. I can admit they have faults and maybe some need to be addressed, but I won't just debase a game like that.

I honestly hope it gets better for you. I'm sorry if I was forceful or rude. I don't mean to offend, but everyone has a breaking point.

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by Harmanimus, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 14:11 (133 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I think the actual key point here that needs to be focused on is perspective on this:

I do expect a basic amount of respect for player’s time

This is very nebulous and entirely a personal metric. It isn’t the player’s time you can judge as not being met with respect, only your feelings of your own time and the explicit presentation of others. As a minor stake in the games population, the vocal portion who feels unvalued is unfair to assess the rest of all on. Obvious passion makes things more vocal, but there are a lot of folks who do not feel Bungie has disrespected their time.

Every other argument here stems from this one. Not attempting to speak for anyone, but on DBO and in this thread you see some folks take umbrage with individual occurrences. Others with the entire core concept and functionality of the game.

It is an important discussion. But that individual perspective and the context around it are also very important.

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 10:06 (133 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

This is technically breaking a major system of their game.

Is it? Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Pinnacle weapons come masterworked and dismantle into a lot of cores. You can keep acquiring the same gun over and over from the vendor. So you buy, dismantle, buy dismantle etc. That's how it works right?

How is that any different than buying a ton of simulation seeds, and going to brother vance? Unless I am mistaken about how it works, it seems like it's the same thing really.

It's not breaking the system so much as just using it to your advantage. How is this an 'exploit'? Is trading in simulation seeds an exploit since you can basically get all the shards you spent on them back in the loot you acquire?

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 10:22 (133 days ago) @ Cody Miller

This is technically breaking a major system of their game.


Is it? Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Pinnacle weapons come masterworked and dismantle into a lot of cores. You can keep acquiring the same gun over and over from the vendor. So you buy, dismantle, buy dismantle etc. That's how it works right?

No, Pinnacle weapons can only be acquired once per character. Once you dismantle it, it's gone.

The exploit was limited to people who completed the quest before the update but didn't pick up the weapon until after the update went live. Only they were able to pick it back up, and there is absolutely no way for anyone else to replicate that exploit.


How is that any different than buying a ton of simulation seeds, and going to brother vance? Unless I am mistaken about how it works, it seems like it's the same thing really.

It's not breaking the system so much as just using it to your advantage. How is this an 'exploit'? Is trading in simulation seeds an exploit since you can basically get all the shards you spent on them back in the loot you acquire?

Enhancement Cores are just a garbage system that is designed to gatekeep your gear from the endgame content. They really need to let you upgrade your weapons through use/challenges/mods instead of a stupidly regulated infusion economy.

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Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 10:53 (133 days ago) @ Korny

The exploit was limited to people who completed the quest before the update but didn't pick up the weapon until after the update went live. Only they were able to pick it back up, and there is absolutely no way for anyone else to replicate that exploit.

I see.

But how would you know in that instance that's NOT how it's supposed to work? Punishing these players (and everybody else) is really dumb.

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#KornyWasWrong

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 14:39 (133 days ago) @ Cody Miller

... about not being able to re-aquier pinnacle weapons, that is. You can buy them back from Collections. They cost 7 Masterwork cores, plus some other currencies I believe. So they cost as many cores as they reward when you dismantle them, meaning there’s no loophole or exploit around that specific issue.

Wavesplitter was a bug, Pinnacle weapons also disabled...

by ChrisTheeCrappy, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 06:43 (134 days ago) @ Claude Errera

The important part here, is you can still gain PROGRESS. If they stopped that, yea I might have been done other than Wed Raids, which is about all I play anyways.

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Update 2.2.1

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ|f(ಠ‿↼)z|ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 12:52 (134 days ago) @ DiscipleN2k

Voidwalker Nova Warp ...
...

  • Reduced Dark Blink cost by 20% ...

So... I've been out of Destiny 2 for a bit now, but... DARK Blink? Wasn't it just called Blink? If there's a Dark Blink is there a Light one?

Also...

AWESOME!

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Update 2.2.1

by Dust223, Tuesday, April 09, 2019, 23:44 (134 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

Dark Blink is just the short range teleport you can do when you super with Nova Warp, Bungie for some reason likes to distinguish between regular blink and super teleports. Another example is how with Stormcalller can use Ionic Blink for their teleport.

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Ah! That's it. Thank you. :)

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ|f(ಠ‿↼)z|ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 12:19 (133 days ago) @ Dust223

- No text -

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