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The Stream Reveal Thread: (Destiny)

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 10:02 (1757 days ago)
edited by cheapLEY, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 10:07

Stream is live

Luke is back!

They started by playing the Shadowkeep trailer that bluerunner posted.

Now they are talking about deepening the RPG aspects of the game, bringing the stats back to Destiny. They are also straight up acknowledging that Destiny is an MMO finally.

"Play it anywhere" was just said. Destiny 2 on coming to Stadia. Cross-save is coming. Playing with your Guardians on any platform--cross-save is coming to ALL platforms, PS4 included (contrary to the rumors).

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Destiny: New Light -- Free entry point for the game

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 10:12 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

No real details, but they mention not having to run through the campaigns to open up activities.

Expansions are also now standalone--no more needing old expansions to play the newest content. A la carte method for purchasing new content.

No more exclusives.

Destiny 2 PC is moving to Steam.

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The Epic Partner line jebaited me so hard

by Spec ops Grunt @, Broklahoma, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 10:18 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

- No text -

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ViDoc: Out of the Shadows *SP* *Video inside*

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 10:18 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by cheapLEY, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 10:32

Shadowkeep--

We return to the moon. A massive new fortress has been built. "This is no longer about just the Hive anymore."

Eris returns, obviously.

"What makes Guardians afraid, what are their worst fears?"

Something called a Crota Phantasm was show as someone talked about enemies being resurrected.

I think I just saw Ghaul?

"The Darkness is actually a lot closer than we realized."

I think I just saw a Titan block an Ogre stomp and punch it.

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Total armor rework looks amazing!

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 10:22 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Built in armor perks are gone, in favor of a completely mod/socket based system.

Looks like a cool upgrade path with high level perks being able to be unlocked. They showed an "Eye of a Gate Lord" artifact screen with a bunch of icons on it.

Showed a special ammo hand cannon that seems like a small sniper rifle.

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Total armor rework looks amazing!

by bluerunner @, Music City, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 10:38 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Built in armor perks are gone, in favor of a completely mod/socket based system.

Looks like a cool upgrade path with high level perks being able to be unlocked. They showed an "Eye of a Gate Lord" artifact screen with a bunch of icons on it.

Showed a special ammo hand cannon that seems like a small sniper rifle.

I really like that change.

And a heavy bow! I love it!

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Total armor rework looks amazing!

by DiscipleN2k @, Edmond, OK, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 10:42 (1757 days ago) @ bluerunner

Built in armor perks are gone, in favor of a completely mod/socket based system.

Looks like a cool upgrade path with high level perks being able to be unlocked. They showed an "Eye of a Gate Lord" artifact screen with a bunch of icons on it.

Showed a special ammo hand cannon that seems like a small sniper rifle.


I really like that change.

And a heavy bow! I love it!

Should note that these were weapons that they were still developing. No promise that they'll actually make it into the game. Pretty cool to get a peek behind the curtain, though.

-Disciple

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Peeking behind the veil

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Friday, June 07, 2019, 06:51 (1756 days ago) @ DiscipleN2k

Should note that these were weapons that they were still developing. No promise that they'll actually make it into the game. Pretty cool to get a peek behind the curtain, though.

Yeah, I was surprised and very happy at how much they showed off in this ViDoc. It was so much more of "This is what we are thinking and playing around with" which totally feels more like Bungie. Sure, I like when they hide stuff from us and then suddenly BAM cool new exotic or mission, but it's nice to know they are always tinkering to create new and exciting stuff.

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Total armor rework looks amazing!

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 10:52 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

[image]

[image]

"When you get to this last tier, each of these perks gets relatively close to what an exotic might feel like."

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Upgrade of the century

by ManKitten, The Stugotz is strong in me., Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:21 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

[image]

[image]

"When you get to this last tier, each of these perks gets relatively close to what an exotic might feel like."

This was easily the most exciting thing to see...for me, at least.

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Total armor rework looks amazing!

by bluerunner @, Music City, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 13:11 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Looks promising. Getting the old stats back too.
[image]

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+1000

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 14:38 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

- No text -

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Booo! Datto is now doing a Q&A.

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 10:30 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Seriously, fuck that guy. He's already annoying and he's only been talking for eight and a half seconds.

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Booo! Datto is now doing a Q&A.

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 15:00 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Seriously, fuck that guy. He's already annoying and he's only been talking for eight and a half seconds.

I'm not a fan of his, but overall I think he actually did a decent job today. He hit on some of the biggest "must ask" questions that the hardcore community would want to ask, and he walked a good line between being being blunt while also being fairly measured and respectful.

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Booo! Datto is now doing a Q&A.

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 15:06 (1757 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

Seriously, fuck that guy. He's already annoying and he's only been talking for eight and a half seconds.


I'm not a fan of his, but overall I think he actually did a decent job today. He hit on some of the biggest "must ask" questions that the hardcore community would want to ask, and he walked a good line between being being blunt while also being fairly measured and respectful.

Yeah, "Hey, is Eris evil?" is just the sort of high quality content I am totally here for.

In all seriousness, he did alright. I still hate him as a streamer and wish he'd find some other game to ruin, though. I just resent the fact that Bungie feels the need to include him in official streams.

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Booo! Datto is now doing a Q&A.

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 15:26 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Seriously, fuck that guy. He's already annoying and he's only been talking for eight and a half seconds.


I'm not a fan of his, but overall I think he actually did a decent job today. He hit on some of the biggest "must ask" questions that the hardcore community would want to ask, and he walked a good line between being being blunt while also being fairly measured and respectful.


Yeah, "Hey, is Eris evil?" is just the sort of high quality content I am totally here for.

In all seriousness, he did alright. I still hate him as a streamer and wish he'd find some other game to ruin, though. I just resent the fact that Bungie feels the need to include him in official streams.

Don't get me wrong, I'm with you. I've had a bone to pick with the mainstream games media (Gamespot, IGN, etc) for a very long time, but streamer culture almost makes me miss the oldschool press, lol.

I just wanted to say that all things considered, I think it went fine. Considering some of the streamers they've brought into the studio for past events, it could have gone much worse.

[image]

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Booo! Datto is now doing a Q&A.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 21:18 (1756 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
edited by Ragashingo, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 22:08

I thought it took him a bit too long to follow the narrative. Like, this was Bungie's event, not his. But he eventually got around to asking the questions they were ready to answer.

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Booo! Datto is now doing a Q&A.

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 21:35 (1756 days ago) @ Ragashingo

That, too.

I don't feel like anything was gained by him being there, besides my own annoyance.

They have like four community managers, surely one of them could have gathered some questions from reddit and twitter and accomplished the same thing?

I get it, they absolutely want Datto to be there--he's huge, they want him and his fanbase on their side.

It's not a big deal at all, I just hate seeing Bungie court people like Datto.

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Booo! Datto is now doing a Q&A.

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Friday, June 07, 2019, 06:57 (1756 days ago) @ cheapLEY

That, too.

I don't feel like anything was gained by him being there, besides my own annoyance.

They have like four community managers, surely one of them could have gathered some questions from reddit and twitter and accomplished the same thing?

I get it, they absolutely want Datto to be there--he's huge, they want him and his fanbase on their side.

It's not a big deal at all, I just hate seeing Bungie court people like Datto.

Yeah, it is fan service for sure. But they have been pretty explicit that they want Destiny to be created by developers and the players. This kinda thing is what they want their fans to see. If it was a bungie employee, even a community manager asking the questions there could be a lot of questions about how legitimate it is. It's like the difference between a live stream vs something recorded, yeah it's more fumbly but it feels more authentic.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the streamers either, but at least it wasn't deej leading it... No offence to him, I'm sure he is a great leader, but man I can't stand him when he is leading a stream off of a script.

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Booo! Datto is now doing a Q&A.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, June 07, 2019, 09:09 (1756 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

That, too.

I don't feel like anything was gained by him being there, besides my own annoyance.

They have like four community managers, surely one of them could have gathered some questions from reddit and twitter and accomplished the same thing?

I get it, they absolutely want Datto to be there--he's huge, they want him and his fanbase on their side.

It's not a big deal at all, I just hate seeing Bungie court people like Datto.


Yeah, it is fan service for sure. But they have been pretty explicit that they want Destiny to be created by developers and the players. This kinda thing is what they want their fans to see. If it was a bungie employee, even a community manager asking the questions there could be a lot of questions about how legitimate it is. It's like the difference between a live stream vs something recorded, yeah it's more fumbly but it feels more authentic.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the streamers either, but at least it wasn't deej leading it... No offence to him, I'm sure he is a great leader, but man I can't stand him when he is leading a stream off of a script.

But again… how big and how influential are streamers really? I'm betting most people who play Destiny do not know who he is. In fact, I asked the four people I know in real life who play Destiny. None of them knew who Datto was, much less watched his vids.

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Booo! Datto is now doing a Q&A.

by ManKitten, The Stugotz is strong in me., Friday, June 07, 2019, 09:17 (1756 days ago) @ Cody Miller

That, too.

I don't feel like anything was gained by him being there, besides my own annoyance.

They have like four community managers, surely one of them could have gathered some questions from reddit and twitter and accomplished the same thing?

I get it, they absolutely want Datto to be there--he's huge, they want him and his fanbase on their side.

It's not a big deal at all, I just hate seeing Bungie court people like Datto.


Yeah, it is fan service for sure. But they have been pretty explicit that they want Destiny to be created by developers and the players. This kinda thing is what they want their fans to see. If it was a bungie employee, even a community manager asking the questions there could be a lot of questions about how legitimate it is. It's like the difference between a live stream vs something recorded, yeah it's more fumbly but it feels more authentic.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the streamers either, but at least it wasn't deej leading it... No offence to him, I'm sure he is a great leader, but man I can't stand him when he is leading a stream off of a script.


But again… how big and how influential are streamers really? I'm betting most people who play Destiny do not know who he is. In fact, I asked the four people I know in real life who play Destiny. None of them knew who Datto was, much less watched his vids.

The people who visit forums and partake in Reddit know who he is. (That's me politely referring to the salty online twits.)
Probably anyone who would have been watching that stream knows who he is. The casual player wasn't the demographic for that specific interview.
I'm aware of who he is but I don't watch his videos and appreciated that they used someone from the "community" to ask questions, instead of another internal person.

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Booo! Datto is now doing a Q&A.

by Harmanimus @, Friday, June 07, 2019, 09:18 (1756 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Enough to have sufficiently changed the landscape of video game marketing and success metrics over the last few years. I mean. You can google stats about these things.

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Booo! Datto is now doing a Q&A.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, June 07, 2019, 09:53 (1756 days ago) @ Harmanimus

Enough to have sufficiently changed the landscape of video game marketing and success metrics over the last few years. I mean. You can google stats about these things.

I guess my question is whether that is overestimated or not.

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Booo! Datto is now doing a Q&A.

by Harmanimus @, Friday, June 07, 2019, 10:57 (1756 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Honestly, I would suggest most things of that nature to be underestimated. Streams/YT have overtaken regular word-of-mouth in a lot of areas.

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Booo! Datto is now doing a Q&A.

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Friday, June 07, 2019, 11:11 (1756 days ago) @ Harmanimus

Honestly, I would suggest most things of that nature to be underestimated. Streams/YT have overtaken regular word-of-mouth in a lot of areas.

I heard (but haven’t confirmed, so grain of salt) that Twitch viewership now surpasses all cable sports viewership worldwide.

If true, that’s pretty staggering.

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Booo! Datto is now doing a Q&A.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, June 07, 2019, 11:14 (1756 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

Honestly, I would suggest most things of that nature to be underestimated. Streams/YT have overtaken regular word-of-mouth in a lot of areas.


I heard (but haven’t confirmed, so grain of salt) that Twitch viewership now surpasses all cable sports viewership worldwide.

If true, that’s pretty staggering.

I don't doubt that actually:

1. Millennials by and large do not care about sports nearly as much as the boomers or X.
2. Millennials by and large do not even have cable television, preferring internet, streaming, or OTA.

Clearly the Raptors games should be broadcast on Twitch.

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Booo! Datto is now doing a Q&A.

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Friday, June 07, 2019, 07:27 (1756 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Yeah that's my question. they keep hiring community managers from the community presumably so that they can fill this role. and then they disappear from view. It's odd.

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Booo! Datto is now doing a Q&A.

by squidnh3, Friday, June 07, 2019, 11:10 (1756 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I don't feel like anything was gained by him being there, besides my own annoyance.

They have like four community managers, surely one of them could have gathered some questions from reddit and twitter and accomplished the same thing?

I don't know anything about this guy besides that he plays Destiny on camera and has had a couple of gut punch raid moments, but I thought he did a pretty good job.

I think having someone outside Bungie ask the questions was a good idea. A lot of times when Bungie uses vocabulary in a way that clearly means something to them internally but is unclear to the fan base. Watching them have to translate from Datto's more blunt language was illuminating, and having him there to immediately follow up on unclear points rather than having to wait for the inevitable Twitter update was nice.

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The Stream Reveal Thread:

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 10:36 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

"Play it anywhere" was just said. Destiny 2 on coming to Stadia. Cross-save is coming. Playing with your Guardians on any platform--cross-save is coming to ALL platforms, PS4 included (contrary to the rumors).

Cool, this might make me want to play again…

Now they are talking about deepening the RPG aspects of the game, bringing the stats back to Destiny. They are also straight up acknowledging that Destiny is an MMO finally.

Okay nope. Now I'm glad I quit.

The Stream Reveal Thread:

by FyreWulff, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 10:43 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Cross save.

I'll be seeing everyone on Xbox soon.

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The Stream Reveal Thread:

by DiscipleN2k @, Edmond, OK, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:00 (1757 days ago) @ FyreWulff

Cross save.

I'll be seeing everyone on Xbox soon.

And I'll be spending almost all of my time on PC now that I can just jump back over to Xbox on raid night. I am REALLY excited about this!

Now if we can cross-Play going, I'll almost never need to turn on my Xbox.

-Disciple

The Stream Reveal Thread:

by FyreWulff, Friday, June 07, 2019, 05:01 (1756 days ago) @ DiscipleN2k

Cross save.

I'll be seeing everyone on Xbox soon.


And I'll be spending almost all of my time on PC now that I can just jump back over to Xbox on raid night. I am REALLY excited about this!

Now if we can cross-Play going, I'll almost never need to turn on my Xbox.

-Disciple

Amusingly, I've been playing both PS4 and PC, although on PC it was just a little bit here and there since I was waiting for a good sale on all the expansion.

But now that this is happening, being able to jump between PS4 and PC at will? Cool. And I can expand to Xbox.

Crossplay would the pinnacle here, yeah, but crossdata means I can just pop over to whatever platform people want me to play with them on that night, or even multiple in one night.

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CrossPlay

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Friday, June 07, 2019, 07:02 (1756 days ago) @ FyreWulff

Crossplay would the pinnacle here, yeah, but crossdata means I can just pop over to whatever platform people want me to play with them on that night, or even multiple in one night.

The only thing about Crossplay is that I don't ever see it coming to PC. It's a different game on the PC. Between Consoles sure. I mean I guess with Stadia it's going to be even more interesting... I just feel like certain places (PvP) there is going to be a lot of backlash of hardware superiority. Maybe not. Hopefully it does come out and you can just have a check box to choose if you want to crossplay with PC/non-console devices. They already said they are working to redo the matchmaking and PvP playlists.

CrossPlay

by FyreWulff, Friday, June 07, 2019, 08:28 (1756 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

Crossplay would the pinnacle here, yeah, but crossdata means I can just pop over to whatever platform people want me to play with them on that night, or even multiple in one night.


The only thing about Crossplay is that I don't ever see it coming to PC. It's a different game on the PC. Between Consoles sure. I mean I guess with Stadia it's going to be even more interesting... I just feel like certain places (PvP) there is going to be a lot of backlash of hardware superiority. Maybe not. Hopefully it does come out and you can just have a check box to choose if you want to crossplay with PC/non-console devices. They already said they are working to redo the matchmaking and PvP playlists.

I know on Xbox, you're actually required to implement a no crossplay checkbox or you'll fail cert.

My guess is if Destiny goes crossplay, it'll be primarily PvE (so strikes, patrol, etc). Crucible with a toggle or would come later, with maybe Competitive being locked to console vs console and PC vs PC.

I don't think they'd particular care about the different metas as PC D2 already has both the console and KBAM meta depending on if you're playing with a controller or not.

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CrossPlay

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, June 07, 2019, 09:49 (1756 days ago) @ FyreWulff

Crossplay would the pinnacle here, yeah, but crossdata means I can just pop over to whatever platform people want me to play with them on that night, or even multiple in one night.


The only thing about Crossplay is that I don't ever see it coming to PC. It's a different game on the PC. Between Consoles sure. I mean I guess with Stadia it's going to be even more interesting... I just feel like certain places (PvP) there is going to be a lot of backlash of hardware superiority. Maybe not. Hopefully it does come out and you can just have a check box to choose if you want to crossplay with PC/non-console devices. They already said they are working to redo the matchmaking and PvP playlists.


I know on Xbox, you're actually required to implement a no crossplay checkbox or you'll fail cert.

My guess is if Destiny goes crossplay, it'll be primarily PvE (so strikes, patrol, etc). Crucible with a toggle or would come later, with maybe Competitive being locked to console vs console and PC vs PC.

I don't think they'd particular care about the different metas as PC D2 already has both the console and KBAM meta depending on if you're playing with a controller or not.

I've been telling my friends that cross-play is never coming to Destiny. It's something that needs to be planned for from the start, and I seem to recall that there were forks for the different platform versions of Destiny as development progressed. Certainly player data was platform-agnostic because from the start they supported different generations of consoles, so cross-saves have always possible. Cross-play is a different animal. Certainly with enough resources anything is possible, and maybe Bungie doesn't want to rule it out, but I'd like a knowledgeable assessment of Destiny cross-play--what are the obstacles unique to Destiny?

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CrossPlay

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, June 07, 2019, 11:17 (1756 days ago) @ Kermit

I've been telling my friends that cross-play is never coming to Destiny. It's something that needs to be planned for from the start, and I seem to recall that there were forks for the different platform versions of Destiny as development progressed. Certainly player data was platform-agnostic because from the start they supported different generations of consoles, so cross-saves have always possible. Cross-play is a different animal. Certainly with enough resources anything is possible, and maybe Bungie doesn't want to rule it out, but I'd like a knowledgeable assessment of Destiny cross-play--what are the obstacles unique to Destiny?

I think from a business standpoint cross saves are enough. This way, players will buy another copy of the game to play with all their friends, and they don't have to spend time and money engineering cross play. From a practical standpoint, cross play is just as good since the only thing stopping you from playing with anyone is having another copy of the game.

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And another platform too

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Friday, June 07, 2019, 11:23 (1756 days ago) @ Cody Miller

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“Making Games We Want To Play”

by breitzen @, Kansas, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 10:48 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Seems like they’re finally being able to make the game they really want. I am excited. ????

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Related: Curse of Osiris and Warmind are now free

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:22 (1757 days ago) @ breitzen

- No text -

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A la carte content: my biggest concern.

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 10:58 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

They talked about expansions not needing previous content, being able to buy what you want and skip what you don't.

Sounds good on paper, but . . .

Some of my favorite stuff in Destiny is when new story stuff takes us back to some old locations, when quests involve visiting old haunts. I like when the game feels like a huge, cohesive universe that builds on itself. New content that doens't require old content my limit this. They can't send players back to Mars if there's the risk the some players don't own the content that gives them access to Mars, unless they really rework how the game and locations work.

I don't really want a version of Destiny where each new release feels like a segmented release that's not really connected to the rest of the universe. It's already bad enough about that in a lot of regards, and I can't imagine this will make it any better.

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A la carte content: my biggest concern.

by squidnh3, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:13 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Didn't they also say shortly after that that when you buy a new expansion, it will come with everything up to that point? I was confused by that sequence of conversation.

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Free to Play

by narcogen ⌂ @, Andover, Massachusetts, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:23 (1757 days ago) @ squidnh3

Didn't they also say shortly after that that when you buy a new expansion, it will come with everything up to that point? I was confused by that sequence of conversation.

No. In fact, they specifically said that new expansions will no longer require the previous content, suggesting that buying a new expansion does NOT include previous content.

The free "new light" I think also does not include all the content. They specifically pointed out that a lot of it is included-- destinations, patrols, strikes and raids.

That would seem to indicate that the single player campaign-- story missions-- are NOT included.


So pretty soon the part of Destiny that has always felt like the least important and most neglected will be the part you have to pay for-- and the ONLY part you need to pay for.

Perhaps that's the source of the rumor that Destiny 2 is becoming "free to play".

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A la carte content: my biggest concern.

by DiscipleN2k @, Edmond, OK, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:14 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by DiscipleN2k, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:18

They talked about expansions not needing previous content, being able to buy what you want and skip what you don't.

Sounds good on paper, but . . .

Some of my favorite stuff in Destiny is when new story stuff takes us back to some old locations, when quests involve visiting old haunts. I like when the game feels like a huge, cohesive universe that builds on itself. New content that doens't require old content my limit this. They can't send players back to Mars if there's the risk the some players don't own the content that gives them access to Mars, unless they really rework how the game and locations work.

I don't really want a version of Destiny where each new release feels like a segmented release that's not really connected to the rest of the universe. It's already bad enough about that in a lot of regards, and I can't imagine this will make it any better.

I'll have to rewatch to make sure, but I think they mentioned that locations will be available for everyone (possibly for this reason), and what you're buying will be access to new activities like missions, strikes, raids, pvp modes, etc.

-Disciple

Edit: Found it.

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A la carte content: my biggest concern.

by bluerunner @, Music City, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:15 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

They seemed to imply that all locations are available. Even the free New Light version will have all locations available. It's just "premium" activities and gear that are in the season passes.

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The Stream Reveal Thread:

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:11 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Stream is live

Luke is back!

They started by playing the Shadowkeep trailer that bluerunner posted.

Now they are talking about deepening the RPG aspects of the game, bringing the stats back to Destiny. They are also straight up acknowledging that Destiny is an MMO finally.

"Play it anywhere" was just said. Destiny 2 on coming to Stadia. Cross-save is coming. Playing with your Guardians on any platform--cross-save is coming to ALL platforms, PS4 included (contrary to the rumors).

The rumors I saw were pretty careful to say that PS4 was unknown, not excluded. They also said Nintendo Switch, though. can I assume if Bungie was supporting Switch you would have mentioned it specifically?

Any timeline on this cross-save? Any word on how they will handle collisions for multiple existing accounts?

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The Stream Reveal Thread:

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:23 (1757 days ago) @ Vortech

The rumors I saw were pretty careful to say that PS4 was unknown, not excluded. They also said Nintendo Switch, though. can I assume if Bungie was supporting Switch you would have mentioned it specifically?

There were rumors that specifically said PS4 was excluded, but nothing really concrete, obviously.

No mention of Switch at all, I think that's pretty wishful thinking even it would be cool to play Destiny on the go.

Any timeline on this cross-save? Any word on how they will handle collisions for multiple existing accounts?

No mention of any of that at all. I would hazard a guess that cross-save will come with Shadowkeep, but maybe it'll hit sooner? I hope so! I would also guess that you'll probably just have to pick an account and run with it if you're already on two platforms. It'd be cool to see them merge somehow, with keeping all the gear you've obtained on both accounts, but that's probably optimistic.

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The Stream Reveal Thread:

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:52 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

The rumors I saw were pretty careful to say that PS4 was unknown, not excluded. They also said Nintendo Switch, though. can I assume if Bungie was supporting Switch you would have mentioned it specifically?


There were rumors that specifically said PS4 was excluded, but nothing really concrete, obviously.

Yeah. I was trying to say that I saw only ambiguity without implying that there were no sites that you saw that said otherwise. I was trying to convey that I didn't know there was reason to be pacifistic beyond Sony's general history. I tried to edit to make that clearer, but I worry I still failed. Sorry.

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The Stream Reveal Thread:

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 12:30 (1757 days ago) @ Vortech

The rumors I saw were pretty careful to say that PS4 was unknown, not excluded. They also said Nintendo Switch, though. can I assume if Bungie was supporting Switch you would have mentioned it specifically?


There were rumors that specifically said PS4 was excluded, but nothing really concrete, obviously.


Yeah. I was trying to say that I saw only ambiguity without implying that there were no sites that you saw that said otherwise. I was trying to convey that I didn't know there was reason to be pacifistic beyond Sony's general history. I tried to edit to make that clearer, but I worry I still failed. Sorry.

No, you're fine. You're absolutely correct. I didn't see any major stories saying that PS4 was definitely out, but it was going around on twitter quite a bit.

I wasn't posting that story as proof that you were wrong, just as an interesting tidbit that was related to what we were talking about.

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The Stream Reveal Thread:

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 18:38 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Confirmed. No merge. Pick one account+platform to become the “Truth” of your Bungie.net account for all other platforms. Based on that screen in the video it even looks like silver gets overwritten, but that’s not confirmed.

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The Stream Reveal Thread:

by Harmanimus @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 19:44 (1757 days ago) @ Vortech

The way it has been presented seemed more like the Silver stays with the Platform regardless of your gear.

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The Stream Reveal Thread:

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Friday, June 07, 2019, 07:29 (1756 days ago) @ Harmanimus

Yeah. I can see where that interpretation comes from. to me the text makes it sound like it gets lost, but the graphics make it seem like it might remain.

Here's the screen for context:
[image]

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The Stream Reveal Thread:

by DiscipleN2k @, Edmond, OK, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:25 (1757 days ago) @ Vortech

Any word on how they will handle collisions for multiple existing accounts?

It almost sounded like the details were still being worked out, but there was a shot in the vidoc that looked like an interface to choose which info was transferred in which direction. I'll be totally happy just being able to overwrite my PC data with my Xbox stuff, but I'm going to hold out hope that it'll be more of a merge and I'll be able to save the sweeper bot emote that I was never able to get on Xbox :p

-Disciple

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The Stream Reveal Thread:

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 13:35 (1757 days ago) @ DiscipleN2k

Here's to hoping for cross-play, too, at some point.

Because this is still a problem. If people are playing on a platform I don't have, I still can't play with them. I'm not likely to ever have a gaming PC. I'd like to, it's just not a priority for me.

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The Stream Reveal Thread:

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 13:37 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Here's to hoping for cross-play, too, at some point.

Because this is still a problem. If people are playing on a platform I don't have, I still can't play with them. I'm not likely to ever have a gaming PC. I'd like to, it's just not a priority for me.

This is not possible.

The PC version is a different game with different balance. The two console versions may be the same though.

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We play with controllers on PC too, you know...

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Thursday, June 06, 2019, 19:09 (1757 days ago) @ Cody Miller

And we actually kick some ass if it comes to it

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We play with controllers on PC too, you know...

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Friday, June 07, 2019, 07:31 (1756 days ago) @ ZackDark

Is the recoil still PC style, or does it switch over and add auto aim when you plug in a controller?

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Switch over. Plays exactly the same as on console

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Friday, June 07, 2019, 11:19 (1756 days ago) @ Vortech

Give or take framerate, of course.

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Switch over. Plays exactly the same as on console

by Harmanimus @, Friday, June 07, 2019, 14:35 (1756 days ago) @ ZackDark

The core PC differences still influence somewhat. Also FOV is such a game changer. I honestly have a hard time with anything under 100 in games.

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Kotaku: Sony agreed to cross-save just yesterday.

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:31 (1757 days ago) @ Vortech

The rumors I saw were pretty careful to say that PS4 was unknown, not excluded.

https://kotaku.com/sources-sony-agreed-to-destiny-2-cross-save-just-yeste-1835302017

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Finishing moves

by bluerunner @, Music City, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:28 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I've missed assassinations from Reach. Thia is a nice little addition. I wonder if we will have selectable ones like we do emotes.

Finishing moves

by CougRon, Auburn, WA, USA, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:49 (1757 days ago) @ bluerunner

I wonder too. I thought I heard the implication that you could have more then one but not sure if that means you preselect which you could use, ala emotes.

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Finishing moves

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Friday, June 07, 2019, 06:41 (1756 days ago) @ CougRon

I wonder too. I thought I heard the implication that you could have more then one but not sure if that means you preselect which you could use, ala emotes.

Well they did mention at the same time as they were talking about assassinations that it was like dunking the ball, it all depended at what angle and stuff. So it might be direction based.

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More info...

by bluerunner @, Music City, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:33 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

More info. Or just a recap. I havent read it all yet.

https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/47882

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Cross-saves!

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:46 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

It's the best news in forever. Now let's hope the free-to-play model doesn't ruin everything we like.

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Cross-saves!

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 12:31 (1757 days ago) @ Kermit

It's the best news in forever. Now let's hope the free-to-play model doesn't ruin everything we like.

I don't think so. It's not going full free-to-play. More free-to-try.

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Cross-saves!

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 12:56 (1757 days ago) @ Kermit

It's the best news in forever. Now let's hope the free-to-play model doesn't ruin everything we like.

It will. Free to Play by design and by necessity damages games.

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Cross-saves!

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 15:41 (1757 days ago) @ Cody Miller

It's the best news in forever. Now let's hope the free-to-play model doesn't ruin everything we like.


It will. Free to Play by design and by necessity damages games.

I don't know, man... I think this makes a lot of sense, given the kind of game that Destiny is (and not what you or some others might want it to be).

Destiny is not a stationary game. The player bass moves through the content like a surfer on a wave, with the majority of their time focused on the newest additions to the game, while increasingly larger amounts of content get "left behind". Except that content doesn't exactly get "left behind" either. It has been a constant struggle for Bungie, but I think if you compare D2 now to D1 Y1, there is a vast improvement in the way they've created a whole "buffet" of various activities, and players can bounce between them depending on what they're in the mood to do. Certain activities (usually the newest ones) will be more central to increasing your power level, but even the process of leveling up has been diversified to the point where you can focus on just about any activity that you want and still make some kind of progress.

When I look at Destiny 2 right now, it reminds me a bit of the "hub and spoke" model that Bungie used to build ODST. Except that game was a single player, story-based Hub and Spoke, while Destiny 2 covers way more ground. That being the case, I think it makes a lot of sense to make the "Hub" free for everyone. All the locations (including new locations as they're introduced), strikes, Crucible, Gambit, Y1 campaigns, adventures... all that stuff is now free for anyone to jump in, leave for a while, come back later if they want to. And then the "spokes" can be purchased by anyone who wants to go a step further and dig into the extra content that is more self-contained, like the Foresaken campaign or this new Shadowkeep storyline.

This really seems like a good way to monetize new content as its released, without making anyone feel locked out of the game, or too far behind to try to catch up. It looks like it will make it way easier to put the game down for 6 months, then jump back in if something new catches your attention and you want to go straight into the new thing without needing to buy and play a bunch of older stuff.

I'm optimistic.

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Cross-saves!

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 17:17 (1757 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

If the content is à la carte, that means it is not substantial and not tightly integrated into the game. A free game with optional paid content either has shit paid content, or the paid content is not really that optional.

Can you imagine a free to watch movie or free to listen to song? You can’t take anything out because ever single bit is important to the overall experience!

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Cross-saves!

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 17:46 (1757 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Can you imagine a free to watch movie or free to listen to song? You can’t take anything out because ever single bit is important to the overall experience!

That's a poor analogy. Spotify exists. An album on Spotify is a better analogy. Some albums are masterpieces front to back. Others just have good singles.

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Cross-saves!

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 17:50 (1757 days ago) @ Cody Miller

If the content is à la carte, that means it is not substantial and not tightly integrated into the game. A free game with optional paid content either has shit paid content, or the paid content is not really that optional.

Can you imagine a free to watch movie or free to listen to song? You can’t take anything out because ever single bit is important to the overall experience!

That is an insane comparison ;) For some players, Destiny IS the crucible. Other players literally never touch the crucible. Same goes for strikes, or raids, or any activity in the game.

A song is 3-5 minutes. A movie is 2-3 hours. Destiny is (for some) a nightly or semi-nightly activity/hangout with friends that people sink hundreds or thousands of hours into. You’re thinking about Destiny as if it were an authored, linear experience with a beginning, middle and end. But Destiny is so NOT that. It’s more like a bar where you hang out with your friends after work every day. One night you play some pool and throw some darts, the next night you watch the football game together, and the night after that you just chill and listen to music. Destiny’s various activities are nothing like scenes in a movie. They’re far closer to individual rides in an amusement park. Except some people live in the park, so they keep building new rides to keep things fresh. And many people outside the park look in and say “Hey that new ride looks cool, I’d like to try it” but Bungie tells them “you can’t try that ride until you try every single one of the older rides.” “But my friends are trying the new ride now!” “... give us $100 and take all the old rides, or GTFO.”

In Bungie’s new model, Forsaken is a paid add-on. It is arguably the best combination of story missions/destinations/patrol activities/side quests in the franchise to date. But looking forward, it’s silly to require a new player to buy that expansion and play through all that content (plus all the content before it) just to catch up to their friends who have been playing the entire time. It’s a huge barrier, and a barrier that gets bigger the longer D2 is around and the more stuff gets added.

With this new system, a new player can jump in and start playing with their friends right away, for free. Or if they’re playing alone, they can experience the huge chunk of content that makes up the “hub” of D2. From there, they have the freedom to buy the latest expansion and join the majority of the community. And if they want to, they can still go back and buy older expansions to experience them, but they don’t have to, and that’s huge.

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Cross-saves!

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 18:19 (1757 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

It kinda feels like they are talking about Destiny as a game platform, not just a game itself.

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Cross-saves!

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, June 07, 2019, 10:08 (1756 days ago) @ Vortech

It kinda feels like they are talking about Destiny as a game platform, not just a game itself.

Which is why it's no longer for me.

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Cross-saves!

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Friday, June 07, 2019, 10:23 (1756 days ago) @ Vortech

It kinda feels like they are talking about Destiny as a game platform, not just a game itself.

Yeah, I got that feeling too. In a way, that seems to be what they’ve been aiming at since the beginning of D1, even if they weren’t exactly sure yet. But at the risk of opening myself up to an onslaught of ridicule from Korny, it’s no exaggeration to say that Destiny has been a significant part of my social life over the past 5 years. Surprise surprise, raising small kids doesn’t leave much time to go out with friends :) But Destiny is something I can jump into most nights and have some fun with friends. Sometimes the game itself is the focal point, but sometimes it’s more secondary. And I think that’s pretty cool, that Destiny can be the kind of game that does everything from super-intense, demanding challenges all the way down to casual “hangout” experiences.

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+7

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Friday, June 07, 2019, 11:55 (1756 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

- No text -

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Cross-saves!

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, June 07, 2019, 11:58 (1756 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

But at the risk of opening myself up to an onslaught of ridicule from Korny, it’s no exaggeration to say that Destiny has been a significant part of my social life over the past 5 years. Surprise surprise, raising small kids doesn’t leave much time to go out with friends :) But Destiny is something I can jump into most nights and have some fun with friends.

I literally thought that was the point of Second Life :-p

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Cross-saves!

by cheapLEY @, Friday, June 07, 2019, 14:21 (1756 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I literally thought that was the point of Second Life :-p

Yeah, but even for just hanging out, the base activity has to be somewhat enjoyable.

Destiny is like spending the day on a boat at the lake. It’s enjoyable at a base level, even when it’s a huge pain in the ass and filled with inconveniences. Second Life is going to a baseball game—always awful with literally no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

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Cross-saves!

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, June 07, 2019, 10:10 (1756 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

In Bungie’s new model, Forsaken is a paid add-on. It is arguably the best combination of story missions/destinations/patrol activities/side quests in the franchise to date. But looking forward, it’s silly to require a new player to buy that expansion and play through all that content (plus all the content before it) just to catch up to their friends who have been playing the entire time. It’s a huge barrier, and a barrier that gets bigger the longer D2 is around and the more stuff gets added.

Catch up.

This thing is solely a problem because of the power system and leveling. Without that, you wouldn't need to 'catch up'. You could just hop right in.

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Cross-saves!

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Friday, June 07, 2019, 10:32 (1756 days ago) @ Cody Miller

In Bungie’s new model, Forsaken is a paid add-on. It is arguably the best combination of story missions/destinations/patrol activities/side quests in the franchise to date. But looking forward, it’s silly to require a new player to buy that expansion and play through all that content (plus all the content before it) just to catch up to their friends who have been playing the entire time. It’s a huge barrier, and a barrier that gets bigger the longer D2 is around and the more stuff gets added.


Catch up.

This thing is solely a problem because of the power system and leveling. Without that, you wouldn't need to 'catch up'. You could just hop right in.

Wrong again :)

As the game is built right now, you’re locked behind story progression just as much power level. Even if you stripped out power levels, you’d still need to complete all the campaign to “unlock” each location. Think back to the end of the Forsaken campaign, and all the little steps you need to complete to unlock the Dreaming City. The game right now if full of those sorts of little grinds. Many (but not all) of those grinds were cool the first time through, but forcing a new player to go through all of that now just because they want to play the Menagerie is crazy. So I’m all for a system that opens things up for new players to jump in, or existing players to come and go more freely.

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Cross-saves!

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, June 07, 2019, 10:39 (1756 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

In Bungie’s new model, Forsaken is a paid add-on. It is arguably the best combination of story missions/destinations/patrol activities/side quests in the franchise to date. But looking forward, it’s silly to require a new player to buy that expansion and play through all that content (plus all the content before it) just to catch up to their friends who have been playing the entire time. It’s a huge barrier, and a barrier that gets bigger the longer D2 is around and the more stuff gets added.


Catch up.

This thing is solely a problem because of the power system and leveling. Without that, you wouldn't need to 'catch up'. You could just hop right in.


Wrong again :)

As the game is built right now, you’re locked behind story progression just as much power level. Even if you stripped out power levels, you’d still need to complete all the campaign to “unlock” each location. Think back to the end of the Forsaken campaign, and all the little steps you need to complete to unlock the Dreaming City. The game right now if full of those sorts of little grinds. Many (but not all) of those grinds were cool the first time through, but forcing a new player to go through all of that now just because they want to play the Menagerie is crazy. So I’m all for a system that opens things up for new players to jump in, or existing players to come and go more freely.

To me, evidence that MMO is simply a bad genre with insurmountable problems.

There was an interesting retrospective of Everquest on Arstechicna. The game is actually still running. But there are basically no new players. If you buy the game and start now, nobody will play with you as you progress and level up, and playing alone is not really an option. So it's essentially 'impossible' for a new player to even start at this point.

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Cross-saves!

by Harmanimus @, Friday, June 07, 2019, 11:01 (1756 days ago) @ Cody Miller

*problems in individual game designs* . . . *blames it on a genre*

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Cody now that's a little unfair

by CommanderCartman, Redmond, WA and Jeddah, SA, Friday, June 07, 2019, 11:50 (1756 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I don't think you can compare Destiny to any other traditional MMO, Destiny is just so much more streamlined in every aspect and that's what I absolutely love about it!

You cannot compare something like Everquest, OSRS, or Classic World of Warcraft to Destiny as a "dedicated MMO experience"

I love where the road is going for Destiny, new content fresh constant stream of it with plenty of stuff to do but I do respect your opinion too! Sometimes riding the wave can get us burned out!

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Cody now that's a little unfair

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, June 07, 2019, 11:53 (1756 days ago) @ CommanderCartman

I love where the road is going for Destiny, new content fresh constant stream of it with plenty of stuff to do but I do respect your opinion too! Sometimes riding the wave can get us burned out!

Yeah. I have no problem watching from the sidelines, and checking in on the things that are of interest to me (the campaign story, etc). So I'm glad some people are still playing and digging it.

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they literally described that as a goal for the game now.

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Saturday, June 08, 2019, 14:30 (1755 days ago) @ Cody Miller

- No text -

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Cross-saves!

by Harmanimus @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 19:47 (1757 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Per your general “Blind Raids or Destiny isn’t worth playing” posture, it’s obvious that the content is not “optional” but you are a single data point in millions.

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It's a good thing movies and songs aren't games!

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Friday, June 07, 2019, 06:45 (1756 days ago) @ Cody Miller

- No text -

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Preach it, Urk

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 12:20 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

From the last bit of the ViDoc:

We can completely build Destiny in the vision we wanted it to be in. A vision that isn't dictated by a commercial model or business plan, but our creative vision and what we want to do for our players, and what they want us to do with Destiny.

<3

I'm happy to see Bungie taking the reins again.

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Preach it, Urk

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 12:27 (1757 days ago) @ Beorn

From the last bit of the ViDoc:

We can completely build Destiny in the vision we wanted it to be in. A vision that isn't dictated by a commercial model or business plan, but our creative vision and what we want to do for our players, and what they want us to do with Destiny.


<3

I'm happy to see Bungie taking the reins again.

Until there's a bug where uninstalling Destiny wipes your hard drive, and they issue a recall making the game break even. Then they go make a deal with Microsoft again :-p

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Preach it, Urk

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 12:33 (1757 days ago) @ Beorn

From the last bit of the ViDoc:

We can completely build Destiny in the vision we wanted it to be in. A vision that isn't dictated by a commercial model or business plan, but our creative vision and what we want to do for our players, and what they want us to do with Destiny.


<3

I'm happy to see Bungie taking the reins again.

It's a nice sentiment, for sure. And I am optimistic.

But the new Eververse betrays that sentiment, at least a little. There's sentiment, and then there's the reality of supporting a game like Destiny.

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Preach it, Urk

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 12:54 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

But the new Eververse betrays that sentiment, at least a little. There's sentiment, and then there's the reality of supporting a game like Destiny.

Can you explain the new eververse to me? What's different?

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Preach it, Urk

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 13:08 (1757 days ago) @ Cody Miller

But the new Eververse betrays that sentiment, at least a little. There's sentiment, and then there's the reality of supporting a game like Destiny.


Can you explain the new eververse to me? What's different?

Bright Engrams for the new seasonal stuff are gone. They are now engrams that only have Year 1 Eververse stuff. The new stuff is only available for silver, and it's expensive.

Some of that stuff rotates out weekly to be available for Bright Dust (which also got more expensive).

They market it as more player-friendly, because now you can just buy what you want directly.

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Preach it, Urk

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 13:23 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by Cody Miller, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 13:27

But the new Eververse betrays that sentiment, at least a little. There's sentiment, and then there's the reality of supporting a game like Destiny.


Can you explain the new eververse to me? What's different?


Bright Engrams for the new seasonal stuff are gone. They are now engrams that only have Year 1 Eververse stuff. The new stuff is only available for silver, and it's expensive.

Some of that stuff rotates out weekly to be available for Bright Dust (which also got more expensive).

They market it as more player-friendly, because now you can just buy what you want directly.

If the items can only be purchased, and are not available though playing the game, then there need not be any frictions in the game design to make earning things a pain (so that paying to not play the game is preferable).

Their mistake was rotating those items for bright dust. They are now not getting any benefit.

The best system from a player standpoint is one where bright dust does not exist, and items are cosmetic only.

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Preach it, Urk

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 13:30 (1757 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Except nothing else has changed.

So those frictions either never existed, or they're still there and we get nothing in return for enduring them.

FWIW, I'm of the mind that they never existed. It's exactly the opposite. The game was so generous with Bright Engrams, Bungie realized most people weren't spending much money because you could get everything you wanted over the season without having to lay down any cash.

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Preach it, Urk

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, June 07, 2019, 10:09 (1756 days ago) @ Beorn

From the last bit of the ViDoc:

We can completely build Destiny in the vision we wanted it to be in. A vision that isn't dictated by a commercial model or business plan, but our creative vision and what we want to do for our players, and what they want us to do with Destiny.


<3

I'm happy to see Bungie taking the reins again.

I love me some Urk, and I like the priorities expressed in the sentiment. As a reality check, though: they can't afford not to think about a commercial model or have a business plan. That has to be part of the equation. Throughout history, artists have had patrons. Somebody pays, always. And my experience in life is that you get what you pay for. I pay, for instance, for the privilege of never watching TV commercials. And my experience of "free-to-play" is that those games become tacky (if they're not born that way), and the need to insert adverts that generate revenue distract from the way I like to experience games. I'm not saying we'll get billboards for Astros in the EDZ, but I'd rather pay what I'm going to pay upfront for no distractions from the immersive experience that games can provide.

Then again, I believe that when capitalism is functioning properly money is a fair representation of the value you get when you spend it.

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Preach it, Urk

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, June 07, 2019, 10:27 (1756 days ago) @ Kermit

Then again, I believe that when capitalism is functioning properly money is a fair representation of the value you get when you spend it.

There are issues with this idea. The first is that everyone values money differently. I might have no problem paying $60 for a game, but for someone else that's a full day's wage after taxes. I'll happily pay $18 to go to a movie but to some it's madness. The idea of money representing value is false because money does not itself have a set value.

Likewise people value different things differently. So paying for a movie ticket to see a comedy might be a better 'value' than paying to see an action movie. The tickets could cost the same, but maybe the comedy is 85 minutes and the action movie is 120. Even though you get 'less' by seeing the comedy, you may value that more.

Remember when you'd spend $10 on an album? Now you spend $10 a month and get infinity albums. Do you think the person paying 10 dollars for spotify listens to one album per month? Do you think this has changed the perceived 'value' of music? Has the worth of the album actually changed? Does music recording no longer make much money? What do you make of this chart?

[image]

Do you think shifting to the service model is going to make people value games less, versus paying a large lump sum? Do you think this is going to impact the ability to make cool games, when everything about making cool games these days is costing more and more? Do you think games should actually cost more than they do now?

Do you think the games industry is shooting itself and the foot and not knowing it?

Preach it, Urk

by Claude Errera @, Friday, June 07, 2019, 10:58 (1756 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Remember when you'd spend $10 on an album? Now you spend $10 a month and get infinity albums. Do you think the person paying 10 dollars for spotify listens to one album per month? Do you think this has changed the perceived 'value' of music? Has the worth of the album actually changed? Does music recording no longer make much money? What do you make of this chart?

[image]

Why is that chart missing digital sales?

(I still buy music, rather than rent it. Maybe I'm the only one left doing that - but I can't see that changing, because I don't want music I fall in love with to stop being available if I stop paying, or if the company offering it to me goes out of business. And no, before you try and make the equivalence, that's NOT how I think of gaming. For all the reasons given to you by a number of people yesterday.)

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Preach it, Urk

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, June 07, 2019, 11:02 (1756 days ago) @ Claude Errera
edited by Cody Miller, Friday, June 07, 2019, 11:12

Why is that chart missing digital sales?

Because this is just looking at traditional album sales… people pay a lot for music now, just digitally.

https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database/

Second chart has digital music included. Peaked in 2008 and declining ever since. But if you look at the revenues graph, a HUGE portion is from subscription streaming services. In fact, only 1/4 of revenue is from album sales, either digital or traditional.

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So think about how you value music today vs in the past. I can already see a future when a game's sticker price is no longer the main source of revenue.

Preach it, Urk

by Avateur @, Friday, June 07, 2019, 15:04 (1756 days ago) @ Claude Errera

(I still buy music, rather than rent it. Maybe I'm the only one left doing that - but I can't see that changing, because I don't want music I fall in love with to stop being available if I stop paying, or if the company offering it to me goes out of business. And no, before you try and make the equivalence, that's NOT how I think of gaming. For all the reasons given to you by a number of people yesterday.)

I totally still buy all of my music. :D

Eh, give or take a few exceptions now that I’m thinking about it as a whole.

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Preach it, Urk

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, June 07, 2019, 12:04 (1756 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Then again, I believe that when capitalism is functioning properly money is a fair representation of the value you get when you spend it.


There are issues with this idea. The first is that everyone values money differently. I might have no problem paying $60 for a game, but for someone else that's a full day's wage after taxes. I'll happily pay $18 to go to a movie but to some it's madness. The idea of money representing value is false because money does not itself have a set value.

Of course. I wasn't talking about everyone at once, I was talking about the people who choose to spend money. And if the "functioning properly" part is true, they choose to spend primarily because they view it as a fair exchange of value. And the value of their money is always affected by how much money they have.

Likewise people value different things differently. So paying for a movie ticket to see a comedy might be a better 'value' than paying to see an action movie. The tickets could cost the same, but maybe the comedy is 85 minutes and the action movie is 120. Even though you get 'less' by seeing the comedy, you may value that more.

Yes. Judging a movie's value solely by length is dumb, but really, isn't this paragraph basically expressing the same idea as your first?


Remember when you'd spend $10 on an album? Now you spend $10 a month and get infinity albums. Do you think the person paying 10 dollars for spotify listens to one album per month?

This is complicated, because I don't think people listen to albums start to finish (purposely sitting down in a room) like they used to. I suspect that for most people, listening to music is a more fragmented and secondary activity than it used to be. It is for me.

Do you think this has changed the perceived 'value' of music?

No, the cost of access has changed because of technology. That has reduced the worth of the physical item (for some people).

Has the worth of the album actually changed?

Not necessarily, but I do think the number of artists who view and create albums as a cohesive artistic unit is lower, so fewer albums are created to be listened to based on, for example, there being two sides (as in a LP). Music is conceived now to be "stickier" on the song level. There are now computer models that measure this. A while back I remember reading an article about this, and at that time "Hey Ya!" was the "stickiest" yet tested.

Does music recording no longer make much money? >

Not as much, and not for as many (there is less support structure).

What do you make of this chart?

I worked in the industry for a big chunk of that time, man.


Do you think shifting to the service model is going to make people value games less, versus paying a large lump sum?

Depends on what individuals want. Most may no longer want what I want.

Do you think this is going to impact the ability to make cool games, when everything about making cool games these days is costing more and more?

Cool as defined by me, maybe, but again, I might be in the minority. The question about increased expense and increased expectation is something I've been worried about for a while. I don't have the answer.

Do you think games should actually cost more than they do now?

Maybe if the BS gets too deep and people want to pay not to have it.

I tend to buy deluxe versions if I trust the studio, so I guess I have to say yes. The perceived value has to be there, though. For a few studios, it is for me. So far Bungie has delivered for me (not that the contents of collector's editions and so on have been worth it in themselves), but even though I've spent extra money, the value of fun I've gotten in return has been a more than fair exchange.


Do you think the games industry is shooting itself and the foot and not knowing it?

Perhaps. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket on Urk's focus on creative vision--that's what's most important to me, too. I've always been particularly impressed when something is an artistic and a financial success. And whatever disruptions and constraints exist in these creative industries, somebody always seems able to surprise us with an unlikely hit that's creative and not like anything else, and the money men come running after. Here's hoping Bungie can be that special. I don't think anyone has an idea what the new hotness in gaming will be five years from now. I might not like it, but fortunately there is much more to life than video games.

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Preach it, Urk

by Harmanimus @, Friday, June 07, 2019, 11:06 (1756 days ago) @ Kermit

I think the important distinction is the use of “dictated. Before design decisions were made to support earnings. They seem to be in a position they feel they can adjust their business/revenue model to support the vision instead. Not saying everyone will like the model, but I think the point being made isn’t that they’re gonna be like solo indie devs who take 8 years to release a mediocre game and get mad when it doesn’t make them rich.

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Revenue

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Friday, June 07, 2019, 13:28 (1756 days ago) @ Kermit

As a reality check, though: they can't afford not to think about a commercial model or have a business plan. That has to be part of the equation.

Absolutely, and it seems like they've found a way to maintain a viable financial model for Destiny going forward. I would imagine that cutting Activision out of the revenue stream will help substantially with that.

And my experience in life is that you get what you pay for. I pay, for instance, for the privilege of never watching TV commercials.

I'm with you 100%. I pre-ordered the Shadowkeep Collector's Edition from the Bungie Store yesterday. I'm on board. ;-) I have happily supported Bungie for many years, and I have rarely been disappointed with my 'investment.'

And my experience of "free-to-play" is that those games become tacky (if they're not born that way), and the need to insert adverts that generate revenue distract from the way I like to experience games.

I haven't played many free-to-play games (see previous point above), but those I have played (Apex Legends!) have seemed to walk the line appropriately. I have zero issue with the "new" Eververse setup. I've been saying since the store launched in D1 that I'd pay extra for the ability to get the things I want, rather than roll the dice. I think this is the right approach.

It's interesting to see all of the little changes that are happening now that Bungie owns the pipeline.

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Preach it, Urk

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, June 07, 2019, 13:45 (1756 days ago) @ Beorn

As a reality check, though: they can't afford not to think about a commercial model or have a business plan. That has to be part of the equation.

Absolutely, and it seems like they've found a way to maintain a viable financial model for Destiny going forward. I would imagine that cutting Activision out of the revenue stream will help substantially with that.

I certainly hope so!

And my experience in life is that you get what you pay for. I pay, for instance, for the privilege of never watching TV commercials.

I'm with you 100%. I pre-ordered the Shadowkeep Collector's Edition from the Bungie Store yesterday. I'm on board. ;-) I have happily supported Bungie for many years, and I have rarely been disappointed with my 'investment.'

Me too! [secret handshake]

And my experience of "free-to-play" is that those games become tacky (if they're not born that way), and the need to insert adverts that generate revenue distract from the way I like to experience games.

I haven't played many free-to-play games (see previous point above), but those I have played (Apex Legends!) have seemed to walk the line appropriately. I have zero issue with the "new" Eververse setup. I've been saying since the store launched in D1 that I'd pay extra for the ability to get the things I want, rather than roll the dice. I think this is the right approach.

I admit that I'm speaking from limited experience, because I haven't played many free games for long. Perhaps this free-to-play hype will be good for Bungie, but personally I'm hoping it's more what someone here called free-to-try.

It's interesting to see all of the little changes that are happening now that Bungie owns the pipeline.

Indeed!

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Collector’s Edition.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, June 07, 2019, 17:47 (1756 days ago) @ Beorn

When I got to this point of the product description:

Luna Journal: A 160-page journal featuring additional story content that is bound with the mysterious charms and talismans of Eris Morn.

I grabbed the nearest shutupandtakemymoney.jpg then found my wallet. We’ll see how it compares to the Halsey Journal, but I’m hopeful it’ll be good.

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I wish there was a medium edition.

by cheapLEY @, Friday, June 07, 2019, 18:04 (1756 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I want the books, but not the plastic bullshit that ends up in a closet to be forgotten about.

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Dare I hope? This looks good... again.

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 14:38 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Then again, no Activision.

...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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I'm excited

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, June 06, 2019, 14:54 (1757 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I think this all looks really cool.

The combination of cross-saves, free-to-play base game, with a restructured "onboarding" process for new players that lets them jump straight into the end game without needing to sink 40-50 hours into all the old campaigns... this is the kind of structural shift that makes a lot of sense and should help expand the player base.

Aside from that, I love some of the nitty gritty details we saw today. The armor rework looks like a good step, and the executions look AWESOME (I was just replaying Halo 4 recently, and it hit me how much I missed the Assassinations). The "a la carte" approach to extra content going forward makes more sense than the Season Pass, especially with the understanding that all locations/patrol spaces will remain available for free for all players.

Overall, I think this has been a great day for Bungie, Destiny, and us fans.

As a lapsed player...

by Phoenix_9286 @, Friday, June 07, 2019, 07:25 (1756 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Is there anything in this to bring me back?

The last thing I finished before bailig and never looking back was the Forsaken campaign. I almost completely ignored the Dreaming City because it never felt like anything was pushing me to go there. I was completely turned off by the return and doubling down of a grind that didn't seem to respect any time I put into it...

Look, I enjoyed Destiny. I really enjoyed 2. Especially prior to Forsaken. But I'm not interested in a game that's constructed to suck up all of my available limited free time (I have other things I want to play too, I'm a gamer, not a Destiny-er), and I'm certainly not interested in a game that doesn't respect time put into it. I could and did drop all 10ish hours of free time I had into it for a month straight and got little to nothing in return. I don't care about Crucible, I don't care about Gambit, I don't care about endgame content that requires 3+ players, because I'll never do it.

Is this even worth my time to look into jumping back?

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As a lapsed player...

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Friday, June 07, 2019, 07:34 (1756 days ago) @ Phoenix_9286

It's hard to say because I don't know you or what you like. You say you didn't get anything worthwhile from your time. What did you have in mind? What would have been worthwhile? You list a lot of stuff you didn't like or won't like, but what did you like from earlier in the game? Knowing that, we could tell you if things that were announced sound like things you like.

As a lapsed player...

by Phoenix_9286 @, Friday, June 07, 2019, 08:04 (1756 days ago) @ Vortech

I enjoyed the story missions and quest lines. I enjoyed running strikes. I kinda enjoyed chasing after certain guns. I kinda enjoyed running bounties. I loved public events. I enjoyed escalation protocol.

I did not enjoy chasing after guns and spending a month or more grinding out an endless series of steps. I did not enjoy random rolls. I did not enjoy the sudden masterwork core tax for infusion.

Basically, I'm pretty sure I enjoyed all the parts I could do solo, or that weren't hardcore MMO-bring-a-group-of-dudes-max-light, or where it didn't matter if someone was behind a bit because they hadn't played in a few weeks.

Honestly I'm fairly certain the answer is "No, it's more of the same", but it doesn't hurt to ask.

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As a lapsed player...

by Harmanimus @, Friday, June 07, 2019, 09:12 (1756 days ago) @ Phoenix_9286

Honestly, from your description you could probably just lag behind a little on most of the content and have a lot of things available. Lagging behind so you can be immediately power boosted. The Dreaming city is hours of content you can do on your own which doesn’t demand more than an hour or two a week. While you probably wouldn’t care about Season of the Drifter, there are currently 3 other Escalation Protocol style activities (with matchmaking, but no longer in public zones) that don’t have any relationship with Gambit.

The gear related stuff this season wouldn’t make you happy, but Gear will be very different come Shadowkeep. So it is hard to tell. A lot of it is simply individual preference. But a lot of things are probably gonna wind up on sale for past content anyway. So getting one’s money worth gets easier.

As a lapsed player...

by Avateur @, Friday, June 07, 2019, 14:54 (1756 days ago) @ Phoenix_9286

As someone who also quit, nope. Looks like all the excitement is from people who already play. I feel like I’ve heard and seen half of these promises from Bungie before. They still nerf and over correct and flip the van. Still not learning from past mistakes. F2P is generally inherently terrible, making either some content not worth having or playing, or other content being something worth having and playing but maybe behind some trash pay wall. There are plenty of assumptions in what I’ve said, but this looks like the path they were on even before being free from Activision. And it looks awful. If others love it and it works for them, cool. Have fun with Destiny. You wanna come back to it and give it a shot? Why not? To each their own, you know? I’m definitely not dealing with the BS and grinds and poor decisions and hype that doesn’t even attempt to live up to what it presented. New Bungie IP please.

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As a lapsed player...

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, June 07, 2019, 16:48 (1756 days ago) @ Avateur

New Bungie IP please.

You mean the one NETEASE invested in? LOL.

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As a lapsed player...

by cheapLEY @, Friday, June 07, 2019, 18:06 (1756 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I'm really interested to see what's next.

Is Destiny now just the model for Bungie going forward? I hope not.

I'd love to see a world where Destiny is their huge thing for the next decade (or longer) that makes tons of money that they then use to fund the next ODST or whatever cool, small experiment they might have brewing.

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As a lapsed player...

by Harmanimus @, Friday, June 07, 2019, 18:26 (1756 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I could totally support a Double Fine-like development model.

As a lapsed player...

by Avateur @, Friday, June 07, 2019, 19:18 (1756 days ago) @ Cody Miller

New Bungie IP please.


You mean the one NETEASE invested in? LOL.

Tough call on that one. If it’s what you’ve described in the past, ew. I hope they have something cool on the spear. Also, while not a new IP and also it’s probably an unreasonable expectation, but I’m kinda hoping that we get Marathon something or other after all that hinting years ago that they may do a thing.

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As a lapsed player...

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, June 07, 2019, 21:13 (1755 days ago) @ Avateur

but I’m kinda hoping that we get Marathon something or other after all that hinting years ago that they may do a thing.

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