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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim? (Destiny)

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, November 20, 2019, 10:25 (16 days ago)

Gyro aim is the real deal. I’ve tried it, and it is so much easier, more precise, and just as comfortable as sticks for aiming while looking down sights.

Why on earth doesn’t a game like Destiny support this? Motion control has got a bad rap, but gyro aim is Actually pretty great. If anyone from Bungie is reading, consider it.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, November 20, 2019, 10:57 (16 days ago) @ Cody Miller
edited by cheapLEY, Wednesday, November 20, 2019, 11:39

Because the PlayStation 4 is the only platform Destiny is on that supports it. I guess PC could, too. If you plug a Dualshock into a PC does the motion stuff work?

And also because gyro aim sucks ass. It’s almost as bad as inverted. (:

+1 Gyro aim is trash

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Wednesday, November 20, 2019, 13:11 (16 days ago) @ cheapLEY

- No text -

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, November 20, 2019, 15:34 (16 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by Cody Miller, Wednesday, November 20, 2019, 15:45

Because the PlayStation 4 is the only platform Destiny is on that supports it. I guess PC could, too. If you plug a Dualshock into a PC does the motion stuff work?

And also because gyro aim sucks ass. It’s almost as bad as inverted. (:

That’s where you’re wrong. I thought so too until I tried it. PC supports it with a steam controller. I played MGS5 and it is so much better to use gyro to aim.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, November 20, 2019, 15:50 (16 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I have tried it multiple times. Lots of 3DS games used it, lots of Switch games use it. It always sucked.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, November 20, 2019, 21:54 (16 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I have tried it multiple times. Lots of 3DS games used it, lots of Switch games use it. It always sucked.

I dunno man, After a period of adjustment the sticks feel way worse in comparison.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Thursday, November 21, 2019, 05:41 (15 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I have tried it multiple times. Lots of 3DS games used it, lots of Switch games use it. It always sucked.


I dunno man, After a period of adjustment the sticks feel way worse in comparison.

I think the bigger point is that it's not so much whether one feels better for a single person, it's more that the average person feels better with sticks than they do Gyro aim. And probably more of a problem is that on average there are more people that don't like Gyro to the extreme than there is advantages for those that do really like it.

That and also it probably wasn't worth supporting that hardware if there wasn't a bunch of people wanting it. I mean, I for one actually had to google what Gyro Aim was... And I don't consider myself just an average gamer. Ignorant of some new tech things, but not completely out of the loop.

Is this mostly a PC thing I'm guessing? I noticed that the steam controller was the most viable way to get gyro aiming. I doubt that Bungie would support that device.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, November 21, 2019, 08:28 (15 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

2/3 of Destiny’s platforms support it.

I honestly think people haven’t given it a fair try given the baggage surrounding motion controls in the past. We are beyond the stupid broad gestures and waggle. I myself, who was a skeptic, think I actually improve when using it.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Thursday, November 21, 2019, 08:37 (15 days ago) @ Cody Miller

2/3 of Destiny’s platforms support it.

And yet Bungie still doesn't want to piss off 1/3 of their platform base if they don't need to :D

I honestly think people haven’t given it a fair try given the baggage surrounding motion controls in the past. We are beyond the stupid broad gestures and waggle. I myself, who was a skeptic, think I actually improve when using it.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt because I have not used gyro aim (as far as I know) and assume that it is better by an undefined amount. However, even if the majority of people like it more, it doesn't mean the effort is worth it to support the device for the margin that gyro aim is better. I mean, they wouldn't probably have to create a third build specifically to make Destiny work well with it. I mean, they had to change things for PC. Unless they wanted to give Console players the PC build and the Console build based on what controller they have plugged in.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, November 21, 2019, 09:51 (15 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

2/3 of Destiny’s platforms support it.


And yet Bungie still doesn't want to piss off 1/3 of their platform base if they don't need to :D

How would it piss them off? There is no cross play.

I honestly think people haven’t given it a fair try given the baggage surrounding motion controls in the past. We are beyond the stupid broad gestures and waggle. I myself, who was a skeptic, think I actually improve when using it.


I will give you the benefit of the doubt because I have not used gyro aim (as far as I know) and assume that it is better by an undefined amount. However, even if the majority of people like it more, it doesn't mean the effort is worth it to support the device for the margin that gyro aim is better. I mean, they wouldn't probably have to create a third build specifically to make Destiny work well with it. I mean, they had to change things for PC. Unless they wanted to give Console players the PC build and the Console build based on what controller they have plugged in.

Gyro aim is enabled in many steam games mostly by fan configurations. It clearly is not hard to implement.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Thursday, November 21, 2019, 12:10 (15 days ago) @ Cody Miller
edited by MacAddictXIV, Thursday, November 21, 2019, 12:21

2/3 of Destiny’s platforms support it.


And yet Bungie still doesn't want to piss off 1/3 of their platform base if they don't need to :D


How would it piss them off? There is no cross play.

If they were forced to use it and they didn't want to?

I honestly think people haven’t given it a fair try given the baggage surrounding motion controls in the past. We are beyond the stupid broad gestures and waggle. I myself, who was a skeptic, think I actually improve when using it.


I will give you the benefit of the doubt because I have not used gyro aim (as far as I know) and assume that it is better by an undefined amount. However, even if the majority of people like it more, it doesn't mean the effort is worth it to support the device for the margin that gyro aim is better. I mean, they wouldn't probably have to create a third build specifically to make Destiny work well with it. I mean, they had to change things for PC. Unless they wanted to give Console players the PC build and the Console build based on what controller they have plugged in.


Gyro aim is enabled in many steam games mostly by fan configurations. It clearly is not hard to implement.

You obviously aren't a software engineer :D I make this as joke, but in all honestly, no piece of software is "clearly not hard to implement"

See https://xkcd.com/1425/

But my point was that the interface device, controller vs mouse and keyboard, can change how we play the game to a point where the game literally has to be changed. That is why we have a PC build of the game and a console build. If you added another input device that the build of the game is different than the console one, then you would have two systems on the same console and thus a REALLY big sized game.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by Harmanimus @, Thursday, November 21, 2019, 12:19 (15 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

This is why I only play games with a Wacom Drawing Tablet. Gotta have real challenges.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, November 21, 2019, 12:59 (15 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

2/3 of Destiny’s platforms support it.


And yet Bungie still doesn't want to piss off 1/3 of their platform base if they don't need to :D


How would it piss them off? There is no cross play.


If they were forced to use it and they didn't want to?

Who on earth would do that? I’m talking about an option to toggle it on. If you want to keep using the sticks go ahead.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Thursday, November 21, 2019, 13:37 (15 days ago) @ Cody Miller

2/3 of Destiny’s platforms support it.


And yet Bungie still doesn't want to piss off 1/3 of their platform base if they don't need to :D


How would it piss them off? There is no cross play.


If they were forced to use it and they didn't want to?


Who on earth would do that? I’m talking about an option to toggle it on. If you want to keep using the sticks go ahead.

That is where I was mentioned the whole "more input devices more and different software" bit. Feel free to read what I've already said, not saying it a third time.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, November 21, 2019, 14:45 (15 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

2/3 of Destiny’s platforms support it.


And yet Bungie still doesn't want to piss off 1/3 of their platform base if they don't need to :D


How would it piss them off? There is no cross play.


If they were forced to use it and they didn't want to?


Who on earth would do that? I’m talking about an option to toggle it on. If you want to keep using the sticks go ahead.


That is where I was mentioned the whole "more input devices more and different software" bit. Feel free to read what I've already said, not saying it a third time.

Oh man. Better make everyone play with the same button layout then. People who can melee while turning the stick have an unfair advantage. There is already one input device on PS4. And PC has always had multiple.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Friday, November 22, 2019, 07:41 (14 days ago) @ Cody Miller

2/3 of Destiny’s platforms support it.


And yet Bungie still doesn't want to piss off 1/3 of their platform base if they don't need to :D


How would it piss them off? There is no cross play.


If they were forced to use it and they didn't want to?


Who on earth would do that? I’m talking about an option to toggle it on. If you want to keep using the sticks go ahead.


That is where I was mentioned the whole "more input devices more and different software" bit. Feel free to read what I've already said, not saying it a third time.


Oh man. Better make everyone play with the same button layout then. People who can melee while turning the stick have an unfair advantage. There is already one input device on PS4. And PC has always had multiple.

You are either not getting my point or intentionally ignoring it. I'm betting on the latter.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, November 22, 2019, 09:00 (14 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

You are either not getting my point or intentionally ignoring it. I'm betting on the latter.

It's literally not adding an input device on the ps4. Every single player has the dualshock 4, and they all play with the dualshock 4.

Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by EffortlessFury @, Thursday, November 21, 2019, 14:45 (15 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

2/3 of Destiny’s platforms support it.


And yet Bungie still doesn't want to piss off 1/3 of their platform base if they don't need to :D


How would it piss them off? There is no cross play.


If they were forced to use it and they didn't want to?

I honestly think people haven’t given it a fair try given the baggage surrounding motion controls in the past. We are beyond the stupid broad gestures and waggle. I myself, who was a skeptic, think I actually improve when using it.


I will give you the benefit of the doubt because I have not used gyro aim (as far as I know) and assume that it is better by an undefined amount. However, even if the majority of people like it more, it doesn't mean the effort is worth it to support the device for the margin that gyro aim is better. I mean, they wouldn't probably have to create a third build specifically to make Destiny work well with it. I mean, they had to change things for PC. Unless they wanted to give Console players the PC build and the Console build based on what controller they have plugged in.


Gyro aim is enabled in many steam games mostly by fan configurations. It clearly is not hard to implement.


You obviously aren't a software engineer :D I make this as joke, but in all honestly, no piece of software is "clearly not hard to implement"

See https://xkcd.com/1425/

But my point was that the interface device, controller vs mouse and keyboard, can change how we play the game to a point where the game literally has to be changed. That is why we have a PC build of the game and a console build. If you added another input device that the build of the game is different than the console one, then you would have two systems on the same console and thus a REALLY big sized game.

Don't think that's how that works. The code for dealing with an input device wouldn't be significant in size.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Friday, November 22, 2019, 07:45 (14 days ago) @ EffortlessFury

2/3 of Destiny’s platforms support it.


And yet Bungie still doesn't want to piss off 1/3 of their platform base if they don't need to :D


How would it piss them off? There is no cross play.


If they were forced to use it and they didn't want to?

I honestly think people haven’t given it a fair try given the baggage surrounding motion controls in the past. We are beyond the stupid broad gestures and waggle. I myself, who was a skeptic, think I actually improve when using it.


I will give you the benefit of the doubt because I have not used gyro aim (as far as I know) and assume that it is better by an undefined amount. However, even if the majority of people like it more, it doesn't mean the effort is worth it to support the device for the margin that gyro aim is better. I mean, they wouldn't probably have to create a third build specifically to make Destiny work well with it. I mean, they had to change things for PC. Unless they wanted to give Console players the PC build and the Console build based on what controller they have plugged in.


Gyro aim is enabled in many steam games mostly by fan configurations. It clearly is not hard to implement.


You obviously aren't a software engineer :D I make this as joke, but in all honestly, no piece of software is "clearly not hard to implement"

See https://xkcd.com/1425/

But my point was that the interface device, controller vs mouse and keyboard, can change how we play the game to a point where the game literally has to be changed. That is why we have a PC build of the game and a console build. If you added another input device that the build of the game is different than the console one, then you would have two systems on the same console and thus a REALLY big sized game.


Don't think that's how that works. The code for dealing with an input device wouldn't be significant in size.

It's not the code for the input device, it's the resulting code to change the game to make the input device fun to use. We have had basically the same build of destiny (ish) since Destiny 1. Then they released Destiny on PC and they have to literally change the build and how Destiny functions on a core level to deal with the mouse and keyboard input devices.

If you introduced that on a console, then you would basically have two builds to support two input devices because they are so different.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, November 22, 2019, 09:03 (14 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV
edited by Cody Miller, Friday, November 22, 2019, 09:11

If you introduced that on a console, then you would basically have two builds to support two input devices because they are so different.

No, you have one build that supports both.

If players want to use the inferior stick method, then they can. But they are not locked out of using gyro aim for ads, because the controller they play with already supports it (Dualshock 4).

The PC version of Destiny is one build that supports controllers and Keyboard + Mouse. Why do you suddenly think another build needs to be made for PS4, especially when it's literally the same controller I'm talking about?

MGS 5 on PC does not officially support gryo aim. It was added by fans with custom configurations. This proves it's not difficult to implement. This is exactly what I tried and it was very good. Perhaps the steam controller simply has more precise motion controls, but it's honestly hard to go back.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by cheapLEY @, Friday, November 22, 2019, 09:29 (14 days ago) @ Cody Miller
edited by cheapLEY, Friday, November 22, 2019, 09:52

Maybe using the word build is confusing.

It is my understanding that using a mouse versus using a controller literally changes the way the game functions. Recoil and auto aim values are adjusted.

It’s not as simple as just enabling gyro controls on the PS4. Bungie cares immensely about how their games feel to play (as they should, as it’s one of the major selling points of their shooters). How does it feel to compensate for recoil with gyro aim versus using sticks? How much auto aim is appropriate? They have to test every gun in the game for another control scheme and make adjustments (and every gun ever added going forward). They can’t just turn on gyro and call it done. Well, they could maybe, but Bungie would care more about their game than to just do that, I think.

Now how does the game work when your playing with folks that all use different control schemes? I mostly think it shouldn’t matter. Good SBMM makes that a non-issue, but it’s still something they have to consider.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Friday, November 22, 2019, 09:33 (14 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Maybe using the word build is confusing.

It is my understanding that using a mouse versus using a controller literally changes the way the game functions. Recoil and auto aim values are adjusted.

It’s not as simple as just enabling gyro controls on the PS4. Bungie cares immensely about how their games feel to play (as they should, as it’s one of the major selling points of their shooters). How does it feel to compensated for recoil with gyro aim versus using sticks. How much auto aim is appropriate. They have to test every gun in the game for another control scheme and make adjustments (and every gone ever added going forward). They can’t just turn on gyro and call it done. Well, they could maybe, but Bungie would care more about their game than to just do that, I think.

Now how does the game work when your playing with folks that all use different control schemes? I mostly think it shouldn’t matter. Good SBMM makes that a non-issue, but it’s still something they have to consider.

Thanks for summing up, in a different way, exactly what I was trying to sum up :D

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, November 22, 2019, 12:00 (14 days ago) @ cheapLEY

It’s not as simple as just enabling gyro controls on the PS4. Bungie cares immensely about how their games feel to play (as they should, as it’s one of the major selling points of their shooters). How does it feel to compensate for recoil with gyro aim versus using sticks? How much auto aim is appropriate?

Similar amounts to mouse control? This was already largely figured out.

Now how does the game work when your playing with folks that all use different control schemes? I mostly think it shouldn’t matter. Good SBMM makes that a non-issue, but it’s still something they have to consider.

Ask pad players on the PC version.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Friday, November 22, 2019, 09:31 (14 days ago) @ Cody Miller

If you introduced that on a console, then you would basically have two builds to support two input devices because they are so different.


No, you have one build that supports both.

I understand it would basically be one build. I was simply saying it was two builds because it would basically be two versions of the game based on what input device you had.

If players want to use the inferior stick method, then they can. But they are not locked out of using gyro aim for ads, because the controller they play with already supports it (Dualshock 4).

The PC version of Destiny is one build that supports controllers and Keyboard + Mouse. Why do you suddenly think another build needs to be made for PS4, especially when it's literally the same controller I'm talking about?

I did not know the controller was officially supported by Bungie. Does that mean that the game switches to the controller version of the game when you use that input? Mean, does it lower recoil of weapons and all that jazz when you are using the controller? If so, great. I'm still going to point back to my earlier point that where it's a lot of work to add another input device because they have to figure out what works best for that input device in the context of the game. Just like they did with PC and the mouse and keyboard. Would it be worth the effort? Maybe? But my bet is that it wouldn't be for Bungie.

MGS 5 on PC does not officially support gryo aim. It was added by fans with custom configurations. This proves it's not difficult to implement. This is exactly what I tried and it was very good. Perhaps the steam controller simply has more precise motion controls, but it's honestly hard to go back.

I'm glad MGS 5 is the type of game that works with Gyro Aim and that you like it. Honestly.

I just have to push back a little when you sound surprised that Bungie hasn't added support for Gyro Aim yet. Because I honestly think it would be more work than you think it would be, and this is the most important part, for the game that they want to make. Meaning, I'm sure they could hack in the configuration to allow it to happen. But then it would meet their standards on how a game would play smoothly and fairly. Which is why they put in the work they did to make sure that all the core mechanics of the game felt good when you added an input device like the mouse and keyboard.

That's all I'm trying to say. This is Bungie we are talking about. You might think that is a negative thing. But I personally love them for making the core gameplay perfect regardless of how users interact with it.

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Why doesn’t Destiny support gyro aim?

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Friday, November 22, 2019, 18:40 (14 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

I did not know the controller was officially supported by Bungie. Does that mean that the game switches to the controller version of the game when you use that input? Mean, does it lower recoil of weapons and all that jazz when you are using the controller? If so, great. I'm still going to point back to my earlier point that where it's a lot of work to add another input device because they have to figure out what works best for that input device in the context of the game. Just like they did with PC and the mouse and keyboard. Would it be worth the effort? Maybe? But my bet is that it wouldn't be for Bungie.

It does support the controller officially, but it still feels different than on console. Both FOV and FPS are coded into how the weapon feels. Bungie definitely puts a lot of effort into how each input method feels.

Maybe they think the effort for a marginalized input method isn't worth it. Maybe they do and are secretly toying it around in skunkwork builds. We don't know. It's ok to hypothesize and stuff, but I think it borders on rudeness to assume "it's easy-peasy, Bungie is being sleazy".

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