I finally got it straight

Okay, I finally got it all straight.

First, there was the Xbox One which was more powerful than the Xbox 360. Then, it was replaced with the Xbox One S, which was the same as the Xbox One but could do 4K video. They added the Xbox One X, which was a more powerful version of the Xbox One and the Xbox One S. Now, they are going to come out with an Xbox Series X, which is a more powerful version of the Xbox One X, which was discontinued. But also they are coming out with an Xbox Series S that will be somewhere between the Xbox One and the Xbox One X.

Whew.

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Okay, I finally got it all straight.

First, there was the Xbox One which was more powerful than the Xbox 360. Then, it was replaced with the Xbox One S, which was the same as the Xbox One but could do 4K video. They added the Xbox One X, which was a more powerful version of the Xbox One and the Xbox One S. Now, they are going to come out with an Xbox Series X, which is a more powerful version of the Xbox One X, which was discontinued. But also they are coming out with an Xbox Series S that will be somewhere between the Xbox One and the Xbox One X.

I was hoping that "somewhere between" meant only that the Series S did not have a disc drive. Alas, it looks like there could be performance differences. [sigh]

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I was hoping that "somewhere between" meant only that the Series S did not have a disc drive. Alas, it looks like there could be performance differences.

I have no doubt in my mind someone will buy a next gen game thinking it works with the Xbox One S, only to discover that they can't play it because it needs and Xbox Series S.

And if developers have to target hardware down to the Xbox One (like Halo Infinite is doing), then what's the point of having a new console?

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The fact that PC games are a thing sort of makes that a silly argument.

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The fact that PC games are a thing sort of makes that a silly argument.

No?

PCs are constantly increasing in power. The 'minimum' you can target is always increasing. With a console, the minimum stays the same until the console is retired.

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The fact that PC games are a thing sort of makes that a silly argument.

No?

PCs are constantly increasing in power. The 'minimum' you can target is always increasing. With a console, the minimum stays the same until the console is retired.

I... what?

I don't understand this logic. People don't upgrade their PC with every new game release; you buy a new PC when your old one is too slow to do what you want. (Yes, you might buy a new graphics card to extend the period between total overhauls, but you aren't doing that every 6 months, either.)

People who build things that require a minimum performance level understand this.

Sure, you could target this year's top-end machine... but you wouldn't sell any units. So you pick a target that's some reasonable length in the past. Everyone else in your industry makes the same calculation, and probably comes up with a similar target.

The Xbox One came out in 2013.
The Xbox One S came out in 2016.
The Xbox One X came out in 2017.
The Xbox Series X will be out in 2020.

Targeting the last console gives you a 1-3 year window, by your math. Which is probably pretty close to the calculation done by PC game makers.

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I don't understand this logic. People don't upgrade their PC with every new game release; you buy a new PC when your old one is too slow to do what you want.

As a PC game developer, you are not targeting individual people, but people collectively. Nor do PC gamers only play game from one developer.

Sure, you could target this year's top-end machine... but you wouldn't sell any units. So you pick a target that's some reasonable length in the past.

Yes, and as time marches on that 'time in the past' becomes later and later. If you're targeting hardware say, 5-6 years old as a PC dev, then in 5-6 years, you're now targeting faster hardware!

Targeting the last console gives you a 1-3 year window, by your math. Which is probably pretty close to the calculation done by PC game makers.

But using 343 as an example, they are not targeting 3 years back. They are targeting 7. And this hardware doesn't change. Targeting Xbox One leaves you stuck. Targeting PC hardware x years back means you're always progressing.

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I don't understand this logic. People don't upgrade their PC with every new game release; you buy a new PC when your old one is too slow to do what you want.

As a PC game developer, you are not targeting individual people, but people collectively. Nor do PC gamers only play game from one developer.

Sure, you could target this year's top-end machine... but you wouldn't sell any units. So you pick a target that's some reasonable length in the past.

Yes, and as time marches on that 'time in the past' becomes later and later. If you're targeting hardware say, 5-6 years old as a PC dev, then in 5-6 years, you're now targeting faster hardware!

I'm under the impression that by 2021 we'll see games announced that won't support OG XBox One. And hell quickly after that, games that, taking full advantage of the memory/HD architecture of the XBSX, won't run on anything except the XBSX and XBSS (dear god this is so confusing).

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I'm under the impression that by 2021 we'll see games announced that won't support OG XBox One. And hell quickly after that, games that, taking full advantage of the memory/HD architecture of the XBSX, won't run on anything except the XBSX and XBSS (dear god this is so confusing).

But they need to target PCs. And PCs don't have the features these new consoles do, particularly with the SSD and the hardware decompression. (Even setting aside that plenty of PCs have spinning disks still!).

Those PC numbers are theoretical, and are from drive into kernel memory. From there, it's a slow and circuitous journey through software decompression to GPU driver swizzling into video memory where you can eventually use it. The PS5 path for this is several times more efficient.
— Tim Sweeney (@TimSweeneyEpic) May 14, 2020

This is why I think Sony is smart here. Consoles will never be able to compete with PCs in terms of raw GPU power. Which I think is fine. 1080p is more than sufficient for home televisions. But once you start with games that utilize hardware and techniques PCs can't compete with at all, they are going to stand out.

Naughty Dog is going to have the most advanced game on any platform, PC or Console, in this next generation. That's my prediction.

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My point is that it’s totally possible to target both. PC devs don’t just target minimum specs and call it a day. They also make it better for high end specs. 343i could do what amounts to the same thing. And I’m sure they did. It just didn’t show well in that demo.

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My point is that it’s totally possible to target both. PC devs don’t just target minimum specs and call it a day. They also make it better for high end specs. 343i could do what amounts to the same thing. And I’m sure they did. It just didn’t show well in that demo.

Ahhh but that is just in areas that are scalable, such as resolution, frame rate, and graphical options.

You can't turn down 'gameplay' options like AI or physics calculations (I realize there are 'cosmetic' physics options, but I'm talking about those that mechanically effect the game). Otherwise you aren't really playing the same game. Oh, this racing sim doesn't run well. I'll turn down the physics calculations. Meanwhile your car handles differently now, and you can't race against others online because their physics are different. Oh, this city simulator game runs too slow, I'll make the traffic simulations less accurate… which now changes the game. This VR game spends so much time tracking my input and interpreting the controllers. I'll put that on 'low'.

Some things in your game are simply not scalable. You couldn't just scale Halo down and have it work on a PS1.

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I was hoping that "somewhere between" meant only that the Series S did not have a disc drive. Alas, it looks like there could be performance differences.

I have no doubt in my mind someone will buy a next gen game thinking it works with the Xbox One S, only to discover that they can't play it because it needs and Xbox Series S.

Same thing will happen with Series X and One X.

And if developers have to target hardware down to the Xbox One (like Halo Infinite is doing), then what's the point of having a new console?

What? Somehow I've remained ignorant that Infinite will be playable on the Xbox One. Seems like a nutty way to sell new consoles, but I did see a video recently saying that Microsoft isn't out to sell consoles. Seems weird to me, but what do I know.

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What? Somehow I've remained ignorant that Infinite will be playable on the Xbox One. Seems like a nutty way to sell new consoles, but I did see a video recently saying that Microsoft isn't out to sell consoles. Seems weird to me, but what do I know.

I think I get what they are doing… but hardware is as important as software when it comes to games. Hardware determines the possibilities developers have in the first place.

So yeah, it's fine that they want to sell game pass more than hardware. But if the games being developed for game pass all have to target an old ass system, that limits the base complexity of the games.

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What? Somehow I've remained ignorant that Infinite will be playable on the Xbox One. Seems like a nutty way to sell new consoles, but I did see a video recently saying that Microsoft isn't out to sell consoles. Seems weird to me, but what do I know.

I think I get what they are doing… but hardware is as important as software when it comes to games. Hardware determines the possibilities developers have in the first place.

Might explain why they're getting into the streaming service. Hardware wouldn't be a limitation.

So yeah, it's fine that they want to sell game pass more than hardware. But if the games being developed for game pass all have to target an old ass system, that limits the base complexity of the games.

Not necessarily. I mean, they have Gamepass available on PC through Ultimate (which sadly, I'm starting to get into), and there are already some games available there that aren't available on console, so the complexity is only limited by the platform they choose to put the games on. They don't have to be playable on a Mattrick box.

That said, Gamepass is already seeing what we call Gamepass Fodder, which exists just to pump the value up. Trash-tier exclusives such as Crackdown 3, Bleeding Edge, Grounded, and Sunset Overdrive (to name a few), are being shoveled out onto the service at a steady pace, so people with an Xbone won't feel like the library is very small.

Still, for the next two years, Xbox has promised no Series X-clusives, so Gamepass is no doubt what they want to be their bread-n-butternator.

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Not necessarily. I mean, they have Gamepass available on PC through Ultimate (which sadly, I'm starting to get into), and there are already some games available there that aren't available on console, so the complexity is only limited by the platform they choose to put the games on. They don't have to be playable on a Mattrick box.

This is interesting. Thank you for pointing this out!

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Trash-tier exclusives such as Crackdown 3, Bleeding Edge, Grounded, and Sunset Overdrive

I was utterly shocked by this sentence until I realized it was Korny, not Kermit

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He’s not wrong though. Those games are all interesting (well, except for Crackdown), but i wouldn’t call any them good.

But there are also amazing games on the service. If it allows some devs to experiment and put out some less than good games, I think that’s great too. It’s still better than 90% of the shit coming out on Switch now. It’s like Wii shovelware all over again.

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It’s still better than 90% of the shit coming out on Switch now. It’s like Wii shovelware all over again.

This is true unfortunately. Any given Switch game is probably going to be bad. Doubly so if you buy it from the eShop. Another reason to go physical :-p

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OK, but surely you must also see that it's easier for smaller games to get out into the world through digital. Some of the best Switch games are electronic only. I'm pretty sure Untitled Goose Game is. Does Baba is You even have a physical version? I don't see either of these games existing if they needed to manufacture, ship inventory physical games, let alone support retail overhead.

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OK, but surely you must also see that it's easier for smaller games to get out into the world through digital. Some of the best Switch games are electronic only. I'm pretty sure Untitled Goose Game is.

Not True.

https://store.skybound.com/products/untitled-goose-game?variant=32624540123211

Does Baba is You even have a physical version?

It's planned.

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OK, but surely you must also see that it's easier for smaller games to get out into the world through digital. Some of the best Switch games are electronic only. I'm pretty sure Untitled Goose Game is.

Not True.

https://store.skybound.com/products/untitled-goose-game?variant=32624540123211

There's nothing in there that says the game is not presented as a download code. In fact, the wording on the other stuff in the box ("physical goodies") makes that seem more likely, to me.

(It's possible you have evidence somewhere else that shows that a physical version of the game is coming - but this link isn't it.)

EDIT: Never mind. Just followed the image link, and saw the cartridge.

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OK, but surely you must also see that it's easier for smaller games to get out into the world through digital. Some of the best Switch games are electronic only. I'm pretty sure Untitled Goose Game is.

Not True.

https://store.skybound.com/products/untitled-goose-game?variant=32624540123211

There's nothing in there that says the game is not presented as a download code. In fact, the wording on the other stuff in the box ("physical goodies") makes that seem more likely, to me.

(It's possible you have evidence somewhere else that shows that a physical version of the game is coming - but this link isn't it.)

EDIT: Never mind. Just followed the image link, and saw the cartridge.

Yeah, but physical availability coming is very different than physical up front. The whole point is that small development studios can't just fork up the money up front to do physical versions. And if gamers expect that to be the defacto model then small companies will just not be able to make games they want to make.

We should be facilitating ease of development of (good) ideas. Digital is the easiest way to do that. Sure, if users want a physical copy later then go for it, but honestly in this day and age I feel like they should pay for the premium that that entails.

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Trash-tier exclusives such as Crackdown 3, Bleeding Edge, Grounded, and Sunset Overdrive

I was utterly shocked by this sentence until I realized it was Korny, not Kermit

Yeah, you always gotta check the username. Crackdown 3 was really good, and Sunset Overdrive was awesome.

(Haven't touched the other two, no opinion)

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I was hoping that "somewhere between" meant only that the Series S did not have a disc drive. Alas, it looks like there could be performance differences.

I have no doubt in my mind someone will buy a next gen game thinking it works with the Xbox One S, only to discover that they can't play it because it needs and Xbox Series S.

Same thing will happen with Series X and One X.

And if developers have to target hardware down to the Xbox One (like Halo Infinite is doing), then what's the point of having a new console?

What? Somehow I've remained ignorant that Infinite will be playable on the Xbox One. Seems like a nutty way to sell new consoles, but I did see a video recently saying that Microsoft isn't out to sell consoles. Seems weird to me, but what do I know.

Makes sense

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And if developers have to target hardware down to the Xbox One (like Halo Infinite is doing), then what's the point of having a new console?

Well the point of new consoles is to sell them to people, but the point of Microsoft's current strategy strikes me as a flexible approach intended to appear gamer friendly, as opposed to their Xbox One approach of putting all their eggs in one basket and being perceived as gamer unfriendly (which worked out poorly).

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And if developers have to target hardware down to the Xbox One (like Halo Infinite is doing), then what's the point of having a new console?

Well the point of new consoles is to sell them to people, but the point of Microsoft's current strategy strikes me as a flexible approach intended to appear gamer friendly, as opposed to their Xbox One approach of putting all their eggs in one basket and being perceived as gamer unfriendly (which worked out poorly).

I'll state right now that I have no idea if Halo Infinite is an outlier, or if all new games have to be similar.

Particularly of note is the fast SSDs on the new consoles, and hardware decompression of assets. This in particular opens up huge opportunities for games. But you can see how that becomes useless if you need to also develop your game for a system with a spinning disc that decompresses assets in software. If the next tech is your baseline, you can maximize that to push your engine and your game design in new ways. I'm sure there are lots of creative things people can do with it that we haven't even thought of yet.

It's also even better than what's available on PC.

My gut tells me you're going to see a big difference between PS5 and Xbox games this generation.

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I'll state right now that I have no idea if Halo Infinite is an outlier, or if all new games have to be similar.

I'm also operating on little-to-no research here, I remember seeing some article that basically all the games they announced in their event recently weren't coming out any time soon, and there was some language about in the original announcement about supporting Xbox One for some amorphous time period.

Particularly of note is the fast SSDs on the new consoles, and hardware decompression of assets. This in particular opens up huge opportunities for games. But you can see how that becomes useless if you need to also develop your game for a system with a spinning disc that decompresses assets in software. If the next tech is your baseline, you can maximize that to push your engine and your game design in new ways. I'm sure there are lots of creative things people can do with it that we haven't even thought of yet.

My wild speculation here is that it's more of an ad-hoc "get it to work" approach for supporting Xbox One. Then, with their GamePass service, it's not a major issue for Xbox One owners to try new games that may be better on the new hardware. And, if the gamer likes the game even in its limited state, they may be more likely to take the leap to the new hardware to play their new favorite game in its full glory. It's sort of the reverse strategy to the normal console selling methods, and it has the advantage of getting good press because it doesn't feel pushy.

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I was hoping that "somewhere between" meant only that the Series S did not have a disc drive. Alas, it looks like there could be performance differences.

I have no doubt in my mind someone will buy a next gen game thinking it works with the Xbox One S, only to discover that they can't play it because it needs and Xbox Series S.

And if developers have to target hardware down to the Xbox One (like Halo Infinite is doing), then what's the point of having a new console?

From the information I've seen, I got the impression that I COULD buy a next gen game and play it on my current Xbox One S...it's just going to be a dummied down version of the game. This Smart Delivery that keep talking about sounded like it would recognize your console and display the proper "graffix".

From their site:
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/06/10/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-future-of-xbox/

"We are also investing in technology that makes game ownership easier across generations. This is especially true with our new Smart Delivery technology, which ensures you only have to purchase a title once, knowing you will get the best version of the title on whatever Xbox console you choose to play on. This will allow players to seamlessly move between multiple consoles and console generations as they see fit. All our exclusive Xbox Game Studios titles that are optimized for Xbox Series X, including Halo Infinite, are committed to using Smart Delivery too. Gamers can have confidence when they purchase games in the Xbox ecosystem that your investments and progression move forward with you to the next generation."

Now the way that is worded, it doesn't give me the impression that a "series" game could be played on a "one" console. Seems like more of a backwards compatibility thing.

So which way is it?

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So which way is it?

I don't know. Is it up to MS, or is it up to the developer? Are Xbox Series X game required to support Xbox One? Or are they required to be playable on Series X and Series S, but not necessarily Xbox One, Xbox One S, and Xbox One X?

If anyone has the answers that would be grand.

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So which way is it?

I don't know. Is it up to MS, or is it up to the developer? Are Xbox Series X game required to support Xbox One? Or are they required to be playable on Series X and Series S, but not necessarily Xbox One and Xbox One S?

If anyone has the answers that would be grand.

I'm not the LMGTFY guy but here's what I found in the first search for "smart Delivery"…

We’re also happy to confirm that Smart Delivery will be enabled for Xbox Game Pass titles that leverage it. Outside of our Xbox Game Studios titles, it will be up to the individual developer to determine whether they take advantage of Smart Delivery.

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I'm not the LMGTFY guy but here's what I found in the first search for "smart Delivery"…

We’re also happy to confirm that Smart Delivery will be enabled for Xbox Game Pass titles that leverage it. Outside of our Xbox Game Studios titles, it will be up to the individual developer to determine whether they take advantage of Smart Delivery.

So there we go. The possibility exists of owning an Xbox One S/X, and buying a game only to not have it work because it was designed for Xbox Series S/X.

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Series X/S is 100% backward compatible* with XB1, including any OGXbox and XB360 games currently playable on XB1 (with many more to come).

*Excludes games that require Kinect.

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Between this footnote and Cody refuting my soft remembrance that a game is not available in physical by linking a preorder form for a game that might ship 6 weeks from now it's an odd day where people tell me I'm wrong and then immediately show me I was right… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anyway, Backward compatibility does seem to be in a much better state this time around compared to last time when promises of "backward compatibility" turned out to mean "Connect your 360 to the input of the XBONE", or "we assume the cloud will allow this because it's the beginning of the decade at Microsoft and so we assume the cloud will solve everything. TO THE CLOUD!", but also, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. MS seems to have learned that people care about BC and their PC-ification of the XBOX makes that process easier — more like a windows game. But obviously it's not like a One/One X compatibility. (and once again my appreciation for Kinnect features gets the short end of the stick)

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Between this footnote and Cody refuting my soft remembrance that a game is not available in physical by linking a preorder form for a game that might ship 6 weeks from now it's an odd day where people tell me I'm wrong and then immediately show me I was right… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

When Cody said

The possibility exists of owning an Xbox One S/X, and buying a game only to not have it work because it was designed for Xbox Series S/X.

You replied "And vice versa". Which I took to mean that people who own a Series X/S might buy an XB1/S/X game and have it not work on their system, which isn't true. Sorry if I read it wrong.

Anyway, Backward compatibility does seem to be in a much better state this time around compared to last time when promises of "backward compatibility" turned out to mean "Connect your 360 to the input of the XBONE", or "we assume the cloud will allow this because it's the beginning of the decade at Microsoft and so we assume the cloud will solve everything. TO THE CLOUD!", but also, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. MS seems to have learned that people care about BC and their PC-ification of the XBOX makes that process easier — more like a windows game. But obviously it's not like a One/One X compatibility.

Yeah it's pretty awesome. I think Series X takes the crown for backward compatibility now. Playing all games from XB1, and most from 360 and OGXB.
The 7800, GBA, Wii, and launch PS3 are really good ,too.
I hope they add even more systems, you'd think Sega would jump on that.

(and once again my appreciation for Kinnect features gets the short end of the stick)

It is a little strange, IIRC there is a USB Kinect adapter for XB1 models without a Kinect port. Why not let people plug that into their Series X?

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The USB adapter was sold for only about one month, and was discontinued and recalled from stores before the Xbox one X even launched. It's very hard to find. The ebay prices have come down over the years (can you guess from this description how I had to get mine?), but the overall installed base can't be high.

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The USB adapter was sold for only about one month, and was discontinued and recalled from stores before the Xbox one X even launched. It's very hard to find. The ebay prices have come down over the years (can you guess from this description how I had to get mine?), but the overall installed base can't be high.

Still, kind of goes against their "all XB1 peripherals will work on XSX" statement.

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The USB adapter was sold for only about one month, and was discontinued and recalled from stores before the Xbox one X even launched. It's very hard to find. The ebay prices have come down over the years (can you guess from this description how I had to get mine?), but the overall installed base can't be high.

Still, kind of goes against their "all XB1 peripherals will work on XSX" statement.

I'm sure it's "all supported XB1 peripherals will work on XSX"
Because they discontinued the Kinect completely right?

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I'm not the LMGTFY guy but here's what I found in the first search for "smart Delivery"…

We’re also happy to confirm that Smart Delivery will be enabled for Xbox Game Pass titles that leverage it. Outside of our Xbox Game Studios titles, it will be up to the individual developer to determine whether they take advantage of Smart Delivery.

So there we go. The possibility exists of owning an Xbox One S/X, and buying a game only to not have it work because it was designed for Xbox Series S/X.

Only if you’re completely oblivious. Those games won’t say Xbox One anywhere on the box.

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Smart Delivery is a feature of a game. Like Online multiplayer, it might be something a game offers, or it might not. In this launch Window MS is doing a bunch of stuff to make as many games as possible support it.

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Smart Delivery is a feature of a game. Like Online multiplayer, it might be something a game offers, or it might not. In this launch Window MS is doing a bunch of stuff to make as many games as possible support it.

My guess is that Microsoft is forcing all developers under their roof to feature Smart Delivery and all other developers have to make the choice. I"m pretty sure all of the games on Game Pass are Smart delivery (Could be wrong). And everything shown at the last Xbox Game convention thing will be on Game Pass.

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Okay, I finally got it all straight.

First, there was the Xbox One which was more powerful than the Xbox 360. Then, it was replaced with the Xbox One S, which was the same as the Xbox One but could do 4K video. They added the Xbox One X, which was a more powerful version of the Xbox One and the Xbox One S. Now, they are going to come out with an Xbox Series X, which is a more powerful version of the Xbox One X, which was discontinued. But also they are coming out with an Xbox Series S that will be somewhere between the Xbox One and the Xbox One X.

I was hoping that "somewhere between" meant only that the Series S did not have a disc drive. Alas, it looks like there could be performance differences. [sigh]

"could be"?

The Series X has 3x the GPU performance and 2x the RAM, and will cost more. How in the world WOULDN'T there be performance differences?

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I think Kermit meant between Series X and the (not officially announced Series S) not between the Series* generation and the One* generation

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I think Kermit meant between Series X and the (not officially announced Series S) not between the Series* generation and the One* generation

That's what I was talking about, too.

The (not officially announced) Series S will have (according to the article he linked, info based on the profile devs can access on their faster consoles) 7.5GB of usable RAM and 4 teraflops of GPU performance.

Announced specs for the Series X is 16GB RAM and 12 teraflops GPU performance.

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I think Kermit meant between Series X and the (not officially announced Series S) not between the Series* generation and the One* generation

That's what I was talking about, too.

The (not officially announced) Series S will have (according to the article he linked, info based on the profile devs can access on their faster consoles) 7.5GB of usable RAM and 4 teraflops of GPU performance.

Announced specs for the Series X is 16GB RAM and 12 teraflops GPU performance.

Oh. I guess I should really stop speaking for Kermit, but now I'm trying to explain my reply by proxy. I understood him to mean that when there were rumors of a next-gen console from Xbox that would cost less and have less capability, he hoped it would be like the PS5 in that it's the same console for gaming but costs less because it has no optical drive/Blu Ray license, and when he recently started seeing rumors/specs leaked (like what he linked), they disappointed him as it will be a less powerful console. The "could be" phrasing seemed fair given that the console is still unofficial and rumored as of now.

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I think Kermit meant between Series X and the (not officially announced Series S) not between the Series* generation and the One* generation

That's what I was talking about, too.

The (not officially announced) Series S will have (according to the article he linked, info based on the profile devs can access on their faster consoles) 7.5GB of usable RAM and 4 teraflops of GPU performance.

Announced specs for the Series X is 16GB RAM and 12 teraflops GPU performance.

Oh. I guess I should really stop speaking for Kermit, but now I'm trying to explain my reply by proxy. I understood him to mean that when there were rumors of a next-gen console from Xbox that would cost less and have less capability, he hoped it would be like the PS5 in that it's the same console for gaming but costs less because it has no optical drive/Blu Ray license, and when he recently started seeing rumors/specs leaked (like what he linked), they disappointed him as it will be a less powerful console. The "could be" phrasing seemed fair given that the console is still unofficial and rumored as of now.

Fair enough. I probably should have stayed out of the conversation altogether, since I wasn't following any rumors at all, and when I read the article he linked (about an as-yet-unannounced Series S) I simply assumed that MS was doing exactly what they did in the last generation (S meant 'slim', the base model, while X was the pro model), not realizing that there existed a rumor mill that described something totally different.

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You’re a good mind reader. “Could be” because unconfirmed info.

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First, there was the

Xbox, which was less powerful than the Xbox 360. The 360 was replaced by the Xbox 360 S MkI which was better than the Xbox 360. Then the Xbox 360 S MkII, which was the same power as the 360 S MkI, but had basically no storage. Then there was the Xbox 360 E which looked like an Xbox One (not Xbox 1) but was actually less powerful than the Xbox 360 S. After that, came

Xbox One which was more powerful than the Xbox 360. Then, it was replaced with the Xbox One S, which was the same as the Xbox One but could do 4K video. They added the Xbox One X, which was a more powerful version of the Xbox One and the Xbox One S. Now, they are going to come out with an Xbox Series X, which is a more powerful version of the Xbox One X, which was discontinued. But also they are coming out with an Xbox Series S that will be somewhere between the Xbox One and the Xbox One X.

Whew.

TLDR MS has been shit with naming the Xboxen for a long time.

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This is why the Smart Delivery system looks awesome. I can still get Halo Infinite and Flight Simulator and play them on my One S, while they iron out all of the wrinkles of the first wave of Series boxes...since history shows their first wave of consoles are often garbagio.

THEEEN, when the new consoles are re-released and fixed, I can get one and GOO BAAACK and play through the games AGGAAAIN with beautiful graphics, THEEEEN I'll bounce the signal down into the Azores, up to Comsat, beam it BAAAACK to Satcom transponder and down to the dish of Mr Big's limo! It's almost too easy.

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6th Generation of Video Game Consoles: Xbox
Xbox (2001) - That's it. The OG. There were no major revisions or significantly different versions of the original Xbox.

7th Generation of Video Game Consoles: Xbox 360
Xbox 360 (2005) - The launch 360. Swappable 20GB HDD.
Xbox 360 Elite (2007) - Now in black. Comes with an HDMI port and 120GB HDD.
Xbox 360 Slim (2010) - Redesigned smaller shell. Now has integrated Wi-Fi and swappable 250GB HDD, with a cheaper 4GB option.
Xbox 360 E (2013) - Second redesign, meant to replicate the appearance of the Xbox One. Internally it is largely unchanged from the Slim model.

8th Generation of Video Game Consoles: Xbox One
Xbox One (2013) - The launch Xbox One. Looks like a VCR.
Xbox One S (2016) - Slimmed down revision. Can now play 4K video content.
Xbox One X (2017) - Premium model. Roughly 5X more powerful than the XB1S. Can play games at increased resolutions and framerates.
Xbox One S All-Digital (2019) - Cheaper XB1S without a disc drive.

9th Generation of Video Game Consoles: Xbox Series
Xbox Series X (2020) - Most powerful console, will allegedly play games at 4k-120FPS.
RUMOR Xbox Series S (2020) - Weaker and cheaper version of XSX. Will target lower resolutions and framerates.

Conclusion: The names are pretty bad since 2005. They really should have just used the code names. Durango, Scorpio, Scarlett, etc.

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Okay, I finally got it all straight.

First, there was the Xbox One which was more powerful than the Xbox 360. Then, it was replaced with the Xbox One S, which was the same as the Xbox One but could do 4K video. They added the Xbox One X, which was a more powerful version of the Xbox One and the Xbox One S. Now, they are going to come out with an Xbox Series X, which is a more powerful version of the Xbox One X, which was discontinued. But also they are coming out with an Xbox Series S that will be somewhere between the Xbox One and the Xbox One X.

Whew.

Da fuk is dis.

It's not quoted here, but why do Cody Mililers posts so often, almost always, somehow become an argument, be it directly or tangentially? It's almost a guarantee, where if there is a thread which grows explosively in size, it is because of... Cody-flippen-Miller. In example, this post starts out with none-a-topic and more a statement. Convoluted Naming Conventions! Oh Joy, What FUN! What... uh... fun? What the 'ell is this? Yeah... it's convoluted. And?

There is no topic... but then, we post. Us responding is the trap. There is no topic unless we respond and then he goes for the kill. Boy... are we stupid? Nah, can't be that. I just... I don't understand why y'all keep engaging with this drivel. Something to do?

Cody; (Still rhetorical.)

Should I expect a post next on the ham sandwich you had? Which then of course will become an argument on the meat industry and-or how vegetables give you awful gas?

Should I look forward to coming here to read about how you stubbed your toe today? I'm sure you can turn that into and argument too, you obtuse horseradish, as the ground no doubt insulted something of your unwaveringly thick sensibilities, you babbling hornswoggle.

Or hey! Let's just spew forth random ...

lsdjvghaelikgdihejdfswhlijkhwgygfWJEHYEGHilhffesailrughvaeiouhhjrtuozdhvlikwehjbbgr

...gibberish. I'm sure even in this case too, you'll find a way to crawl face first into some boiling irrelevance, as you already know the answer, why "argue" at all?

And while occasionally, there are interesting topics brought...

Da fuk is dis.

Attached: Cody Miller at his day job. Probably.

And that's MY 2¢. (Note: When I started this it was MUCH MUCH smaller. Must be a Cody Miller thread.)

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Okay, I finally got it all straight.

First, there was the Xbox One which was more powerful than the Xbox 360. Then, it was replaced with the Xbox One S, which was the same as the Xbox One but could do 4K video. They added the Xbox One X, which was a more powerful version of the Xbox One and the Xbox One S. Now, they are going to come out with an Xbox Series X, which is a more powerful version of the Xbox One X, which was discontinued. But also they are coming out with an Xbox Series S that will be somewhere between the Xbox One and the Xbox One X.

Whew.

Da fuk is dis.

It's not quoted here, but why do Cody Mililers posts so often, almost always, somehow become an argument, be it directly or tangentially? It's almost a guarantee, where if there is a thread which grows explosively in size, it is because of... Cody-flippen-Miller. In example, this post starts out with none-a-topic and more a statement. Convoluted Naming Conventions! Oh Joy, What FUN! What... uh... fun? What the 'ell is this? Yeah... it's convoluted. And?

There is no topic... but then, we post. Us responding is the trap. There is no topic unless we respond and then he goes for the kill. Boy... are we stupid? Nah, can't be that. I just... I don't understand why y'all keep engaging with this drivel. Something to do?

Cody; (Still rhetorical.)

Should I expect a post next on the ham sandwich you had? Which then of course will become an argument on the meat industry and-or how vegetables give you awful gas?

Should I look forward to coming here to read about how you stubbed your toe today? I'm sure you can turn that into and argument too, you obtuse horseradish, as the ground no doubt insulted something of your unwaveringly thick sensibilities, you babbling hornswoggle.

Or hey! Let's just spew forth random ...

lsdjvghaelikgdihejdfswhlijkhwgygfWJEHYEGHilhffesailrughvaeiouhhjrtuozdhvlikwehjbbgr

...gibberish. I'm sure even in this case too, you'll find a way to crawl face first into some boiling irrelevance, as you already know the answer, why "argue" at all?

And while occasionally, there are interesting topics brought...

Da fuk is dis.

Attached: Cody Miller at his day job. Probably.

And that's MY 2¢. (Note: When I started this it was MUCH MUCH smaller. Must be a Cody Miller thread.)

I'm having a perfectly civil and enjoyable conversation about gaming in the next generation, the merging of Console and Windows gaming platforms, the importance of console architecture and marketing strategies. All of these topics are relivant to the moment and are ones I see in many other gaming-focused places. Frankly the worst thing about this thread for me is you coming in to imply that we are "stupid", posting "drivel", and "random" "gibberish" (oh sweet irony…)

As you indicate right at the top, if every one of the threads that vexes you so has a clear and external identifier, just leave it be? Or, if failing that, maybe don't bust in insulting everyone right out of the gate?

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I'm having a perfectly civil and enjoyable conversation about gaming in the next generation, the merging of Console and Windows gaming platforms, the importance of console architecture and marketing strategies. All of these topics are relivant to the moment and are ones I see in many other gaming-focused places. Frankly the worst thing about this thread for me is you coming in to imply that we are "stupid", posting "drivel", and "random" "gibberish" (oh sweet irony…)

Yeah, it's not like this is a gaming forum or anything, with people who care about Halo and the Xbox.

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I'm having a perfectly civil and enjoyable conversation about gaming in the next generation, the merging of Console and Windows gaming platforms, the importance of console architecture and marketing strategies. All of these topics are relivant to the moment and are ones I see in many other gaming-focused places. Frankly the worst thing about this thread for me is you coming in to imply that we are "stupid", posting "drivel", and "random" "gibberish" (oh sweet irony…)
As you indicate right at the top, if every one of the threads that vexes you so has a clear and external identifier, just leave it be? Or, if failing that, maybe don't bust in insulting everyone right out of the gate?

Vortech, the greatest irony here is that you should have taken your own advice, and left my post be, as now you've opened your textual mouth, and shown you have no idea what you are saying about my post. Considering the non-binding perceptions towards who is saying that, such is truly an irony. But hey, thanks for sharing, but this isn't your best post. (Which generally has been pretty good as of late, and it has been nice seeing you post more here, even if I don't see you on Destiny.)

If you don't understand, but want to, please say so. If you don't, than don't. Simple. That's why Wu keeps to this unique forum format right? After all, that is why I have been able to, by and large "leave it be".

My observation (as usual) is larger in scope, but it has also been made less relevant in the moment as the discussion has equalized into, I admit, something actually relevant. Because OF COURSE it has. It sure didn't start out that way.

When I started this, things were ebbing towards a very tired Console Vs PC debate with Cody. And I thought to myself... WHY do threads where Cody Miller gets involved, even something as simple as the OP, so often turn out as they do? Maybe I'm a broken record here, but... we all know where Cody stands on things. If you are a regular here, his rigid views are an inescapable known. And yet... we engage him again and again? WHY!? That's STUPID! That is STUPID. Again and again there are sieges of trying to get Cody past a line like a mule up a mountain. And I made my post with... "WHY!?!?" weighing upon my non-existent mind. If I had just of posted "WHY!?!?", would that have been better?!? I suppose not, no doubt someone here would find a nonsense explanation how I'm out to get you, since that's SO my Modus Operandi.

To me, it seems like some of y'all mock yourselves by bothering to try where by now you should know where it leads, and today it came to a head. Do you not know? Is it me? Both?(... probably both.) It's CRAZY! I see it again an' again, and y'all keep engaging. I don't understand. Why do you keep feeding it!?

...and yet... the post I decided to make this observation public became, it seems, the exception the rule.
(Fuck me right? >_<)

I am sorry if I've offended you. Hopefully its obvious that's never my goal, but... heh, odds are with my preverbal luck. Further clarification; I don't "Bust" in. Jumping in and threshing around a sudden "Fuck you" with no context would be "busting" in. I take my time to post something with a purpose, and in this case I took far too long. I can't see how many new posts are being made while I compose a post, though I guess I have to make those considerations now too. These gifts of mine just keep on giving.

You know... I really wish folks could be far less myopic with this regular, but I suppose that's a bum dream of mine. I guess I'm jUsT tHe CrAzY guY pOsTinG GiBbErIsh!

Now that's insulting, but, like you all care. Thanks for the time of day folks. Been swell. ;_;

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I think Vortech might be right about this one. Some of us (or maybe just me) like arguing with Cody. It’s fun. Or maybe I’m just bored.

Your post comes across as “Quit arguing with Cody, it doesn’t do any good.” I’m not trying to change his mind, I’m just passing the time. You seem upset that anyone would bother to engage with him. I didn’t really get much else out of that post. Maybe that’s my fault for poor reading comprehension, I don’t know.

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I think Vortech might be right about this one. Some of us (or maybe just me) like arguing with Cody. It’s fun. Or maybe I’m just bored.

Your post comes across as “Quit arguing with Cody, it doesn’t do any good.” I’m not trying to change his mind, I’m just passing the time. You seem upset that anyone would bother to engage with him. I didn’t really get much else out of that post. Maybe that’s my fault for poor reading comprehension, I don’t know.

Na, that's the logic of it. But, if it's a game, then shit, don't mind me. My interpretation was incorrect.
(This is where a tone of voice would be helpful, but alas, text.)

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...we all know where Cody stands on things. If you are a regular here, his rigid views are an inescapable known. And yet... we engage him again and again?

Nah, he comes off as rigid, but Halo Reach eventually became canon. :-)

In all seriousness, I do think he views the world in a super reductive way. It can be helpful for analysis, but it has it's pitfalls. At the same time, he is learning and changing. He will eschew an unhelpful paradigm when he finds one more suitable. although major shifts are rare for him, he does come with new thoughts. As such, I enjoy (that can't possibly be the right word) his expression of the way he sees the world.

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He will eschew an unhelpful paradigm when he finds one more suitable. although major shifts are rare for him, he does come with new thoughts.

See for example, my shift away from 'hardcore' gaming, and towards valuing immersion driven through the balance of aesthetics and mechanics, as opposed to focusing on mechanics only.

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No I don't think it's that…

I think it's that games have changed to reveal that fact. Old games were purely challenge oriented because aesthetics alone could not immerse… Now the aesthetics have actually surpassed the mechanics and we often have the opposite problem.

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I’m not convinced it’s a problem, but I do agree. I love Uncharted, but absent the story and impressive visuals, the actual gameplay there is serviceable at best, and certainly not much worth experiencing on its own merit. Lots of folks feel the same about The Witcher 3.

I don’t buy it being a problem, though. A game is all of its elements together, not just each element taken on its own. Uncharted is worth playing because of its story and visuals, and the game play is enough to support those other strong elements.

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I don’t buy it being a problem, though. A game is all of its elements together, not just each element taken on its own.

Yes I agree. But you have situations now where the mechanics actually clash with the aesthetics to create a disconnect. I'm not talking about 'gameplay' you may find traditional or boring. I'm talking about things like showing us this vast detailed city in the sky, only to find out it's made of empty shops and people who act like pull string dolls. Nothing in the 'gameplay' of Uncharted really clashed with the aesthetics… which is why they are quite good games.

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Yes I agree. But you have situations now where the mechanics actually clash with the aesthetics to create a disconnect.

This is one of my biggest pet peeves. Especially when the game narrative is trying to make a point about violence and it's deleterious effects, only to have you slaughter the next 20 people you encounter...

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Yes I agree. But you have situations now where the mechanics actually clash with the aesthetics to create a disconnect.

This is one of my biggest pet peeves. Especially when the game narrative is trying to make a point about violence and it's deleterious effects, only to have you slaughter the next 20 people you encounter...

[image]

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That’s why I hated Spec Ops: The Line. It was so heavy handed. No, I didn’t hit those civilians with White Phosphorous. I tried not to because I’m not blind and they clearly weren’t combatants. But your shitty game wouldn’t let me progress unless I killed them. And then it turns around and lectures the player about doing it. What do they want me to do, quit playing? I certainly should have because i’ll never get that time back.

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I'm having a perfectly civil and enjoyable conversation about gaming in the next generation, the merging of Console and Windows gaming platforms, the importance of console architecture and marketing strategies. All of these topics are relivant to the moment and are ones I see in many other gaming-focused places. Frankly the worst thing about this thread for me is you coming in to imply that we are "stupid", posting "drivel", and "random" "gibberish" (oh sweet irony…)
As you indicate right at the top, if every one of the threads that vexes you so has a clear and external identifier, just leave it be? Or, if failing that, maybe don't bust in insulting everyone right out of the gate?

Vortech, the greatest irony here is that you should have taken your own advice, and left my post be, as now you've opened your textual mouth, and shown you have no idea what you are saying about my post.

I quoted your post.

Telling someone they did something wrong by "opening their mouth" is a phrase that's typically antagonistic and meant to demean others (implying they don't have the same right to speak as you or others enjoy. It's pretty strongly correlated with gender or racial suppression tactics or other times where there is a power imbalance.)

Considering the non-binding perceptions towards who is saying that, such is truly an irony. But hey, thanks for sharing, but this isn't your best post.

"Thanks for sharing" is typically used insincerely, in a dismissive way designed to quiet the voice of others. This interpretation is reinforced by following it up with "not your best" which is typically understatement. Both are used as ways to demean the work of others while not actually saying anything technically pejorative so as to give the speaker plausible deniability.

(Which generally has been pretty good as of late, and it has been nice seeing you post more here, even if I don't see you on Destiny.)

If you don't understand, but want to, please say so. If you don't, than don't. Simple. That's why Wu keeps to this unique forum format right? After all, that is why I have been able to, by and large "leave it be".

I'm not a smart dog, but I know what "Stupid", "Obtuse", "Thick", and "CRAZY" is.

My observation (as usual) is larger in scope, but it has also been made less relevant in the moment as the discussion has equalized into, I admit, something actually relevant. Because OF COURSE it has. It sure didn't start out that way.

When I started this, things were ebbing towards a very tired Console Vs PC debate with Cody. And I thought to myself... WHY do threads where Cody Miller gets involved, even something as simple as the OP, so often turn out as they do? Maybe I'm a broken record here, but... we all know where Cody stands on things. If you are a regular here, his rigid views are an inescapable known. And yet... we engage him again and again? WHY!? That's STUPID! That is STUPID. Again and again there are sieges of trying to get Cody past a line like a mule up a mountain. And I made my post with... "WHY!?!?" weighing upon my non-existent mind. If I had just of posted "WHY!?!?", would that have been better?!? I suppose not, no doubt someone here would find a nonsense explanation how I'm out to get you, since that's SO my Modus Operandi.

To me, it seems like some of y'all mock yourselves by bothering to try where by now you should know where it leads, and today it came to a head. Do you not know? Is it me? Both?(... probably both.) It's CRAZY! I see it again an' again, and y'all keep engaging. I don't understand. Why do you keep feeding it‽

You have here doubled down and said that we are acting crazy in all caps, which is typically understood online to mean yelling. You say you don't understand and ask questions, but even setting aside the tone issues I mentioned, it does not feel like you want an actual answer given that you answered yourself in the first post, characterized it before asking to understand it, asked it again after I explained by dismissing my answer as atypical, and most clearly, declared your entire post as rhetorical in the title which usually means someone wants to declare things in the form of a question, not to get an answer or to gain understanding.

...and yet... the post I decided to make this observation public became, it seems, the exception the rule.
(Fuck me right? >_<)

I am sorry if I've offended you. Hopefully its obvious that's never my goal, but... heh, odds are with my preverbal luck.

It's not luck. It's the way you posted. Guardians make their own fate.

Further clarification; I don't "Bust" in. Jumping in and threshing around a sudden "Fuck you" with no context would be "busting" in. I take my time to post something with a purpose, and in this case I took far too long. I can't see how many new posts are being made while I compose a post, though I guess I have to make those considerations now too. These gifts of mine just keep on giving.

I said "bust in" for two reasons. First, you showed no effort to engage in good faith before writing off the entire thread and everyone who posted in it, and two because I had read a full and valuable discussion before I got to your post. The first part I stand behind, but the latter is down to me not really liking or switching my mental model to threaded format message boards. I have not gone back to check time stamps, but I forgot until now that just because your post was at the bottom of a long list of posts does not mean it came after, only that I read it after. That was my error.

You know... I really wish folks could be far less myopic with this regular, but I suppose that's a bum dream of mine. I guess I'm jUsT tHe CrAzY guY pOsTinG GiBbErIsh!

You pretty frequently lament that people don't understand you or understand you poorly. You also, though, have this fatalistic tone about it. Sometimes — like here — you put the onus on them to understand you better. Do you want actual advice for things you can try so other people will be more likely to understand your meaning? If you got it would you be willing to change so people didn't feel like they wasted their time for trying to help? I'm truly not telling you what to do here. If you want to keep posting the way you do despite confusion because it makes you happy, then OK. (though, again, with the laments) I'm certainly not going to tell you how to write unrequested in a post where I identify paternalistic tone. I post a lot of stuff that incorporates obscure references that I don't expect many or any to get because it makes me happy that at least *I* got it and the rest goes to boot.

Now that's insulting, but, like you all care. Thanks for the time of day folks. Been swell. ;_;

Nobody called you crazy, or even that you post crazy things. (at least not to my memory, and it wasn't me) That's an important distinction as it is the difference in ad homonym. Gibberish is frequently used to be insulting by implying the ideas are nonsense, but 1) again, nobody said it but you, and 2) really, like Babel (which you also used) it's originally a reference to communication problems that arose from people who came from different backgrounds and/or spoke different languages. Finally, while I don't expect I'm soothing you anywhere in this reply, throwing out the idea that we don't care is ungrounded in fact. You were not ignored like a spam message, I treated you like a member of the community that I thought was hurting it. As they say, the opposite of love is not hate; it's indifference.

----
From cheapLEY:

I think Vortech might be right about this one. Some of us (or maybe just me) like arguing with Cody. It’s fun. Or maybe I’m just bored.

Your post comes across as “Quit arguing with Cody, it doesn’t do any good.” I’m not trying to change his mind, I’m just passing the time. You seem upset that anyone would bother to engage with him. I didn’t really get much else out of that post. Maybe that’s my fault for poor reading comprehension, I don’t know.

If that's how the post came across to me, I would have said nothing. Many people post that. I don't agree with it in fact (as I pointed out good conversations do rise from them) or in spirit (if people want to have a civil and good faith discussion, let them; lord knows we need the activity these days). It was the insulting and paternalistic tone that activated my "let's be nicer to each other" and "we're not listening to each other and it's causing problems" post response that I appear to have developed this month.

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Before I... who knows, why do I get the feeling of an... what am I to call this? An internet disconnect is playing a happy hell with this convo. Eh...

I'm having a perfectly civil and enjoyable conversation about gaming in the next generation, the merging of Console and Windows gaming platforms, the importance of console architecture and marketing strategies. All of these topics are relivant to the moment and are ones I see in many other gaming-focused places. Frankly the worst thing about this thread for me is you coming in to imply that we are "stupid", posting "drivel", and "random" "gibberish" (oh sweet irony…)
As you indicate right at the top, if every one of the threads that vexes you so has a clear and external identifier, just leave it be? Or, if failing that, maybe don't bust in insulting everyone right out of the gate?

Vortech, the greatest irony here is that you should have taken your own advice, and left my post be, as now you've opened your textual mouth, and shown you have no idea what you are saying about my post.

Oh look! My post, but quoted! :D

I quoted your post.

Yes. I see that. :P

Telling someone they did something wrong by "opening their mouth" is a phrase that's typically antagonistic and meant to demean others (implying they don't have the same right to speak as you or others enjoy. It's pretty strongly correlated with gender or racial suppression tactics or other times where there is a power imbalance.)

You mean... what you were saying to me? Behold the relevant portion of your post in rouge, quoted into this here quotepocalypse...

Frankly the worst thing about this thread for me is you coming in to imply that we are "stupid", posting "drivel", and "random" "gibberish" (oh sweet irony…)

As you indicate right at the top, if every one of the threads that vexes you so has a clear and external identifier, just leave it be? Or, if failing that, maybe don't bust in insulting everyone right out of the gate?

You've in essence have told me not to post the very question I had, as I was "vexed" upon of Codys OP, and seeked a resolution (Thank you cheapLEY).(Side note; Oh. Could that why they are called the Vex? There are a fair number of meanings in it. I digress.) You've missed the point of the words (which as a heads up, is the serious theme in this post). And... man... your "sweet irony" was contextually a TOUCH much. Like... the implications. Bro. Unnecessary.

Which than brings to the rest...

Considering the non-binding perceptions towards who is saying that, such is truly an irony. But hey, thanks for sharing, but this isn't your best post.

"Thanks for sharing" is typically used insincerely, in a dismissive way designed to quiet the voice of others. This interpretation is reinforced by following it up with "not your best" which is typically understatement. Both are used as ways to demean the work of others while not actually saying anything technically pejorative so as to give the speaker plausible deniability.

It is? Well... it doesn't seem to be working. By the way, that was a jest.

(Which generally has been pretty good as of late, and it has been nice seeing you post more here, even if I don't see you on Destiny.)

If you don't understand, but want to, please say so. If you don't, than don't. Simple. That's why Wu keeps to this unique forum format right? After all, that is why I have been able to, by and large "leave it be".

I'm not a smart dog, but I know what "Stupid", "Obtuse", "Thick", and "CRAZY" is.

The pattern here is you seem hung up upon the letter of the word, not the context of the whole. When I ask... "are we Stupid?" Is that to be automatically an insult? Does my generalization in "we" not imply something larger with in the whole? Same for crazy, which is not in my OP, but a few post steps down.

For the other things directed exactly to Cody... eh, it was in jest, that's why I went all simple Shakeperean-esk in "insult" format. It's silly in a modern sense. An assertive silliness to imply feelings upon the situation as it felt to me in whole. I mean... I call'd him a horseradish, what do you want from me? Lol. Robot used the words rigid or reductive below, which works too but didn't occur to me. Is what it is... you droning tickle-brained flap-dragon. You Mammering beef-witted barnacle. Beslubbering folly-fallen fustilarian. I needed it to be shorter so... you know what you are Vortech? You're a turnip. Boom! Got'em! /thread :P

My observation (as usual) is larger in scope, but it has also been made less relevant in the moment as the discussion has equalized into, I admit, something actually relevant. Because OF COURSE it has. It sure didn't start out that way.

When I started this, things were ebbing towards a very tired Console Vs PC debate with Cody. And I thought to myself... WHY do threads where Cody Miller gets involved, even something as simple as the OP, so often turn out as they do? Maybe I'm a broken record here, but... we all know where Cody stands on things. If you are a regular here, his rigid views are an inescapable known. And yet... we engage him again and again? WHY!? That's STUPID! That is STUPID. Again and again there are sieges of trying to get Cody past a line like a mule up a mountain. And I made my post with... "WHY!?!?" weighing upon my non-existent mind. If I had just of posted "WHY!?!?", would that have been better?!? I suppose not, no doubt someone here would find a nonsense explanation how I'm out to get you, since that's SO my Modus Operandi.

To me, it seems like some of y'all mock yourselves by bothering to try where by now you should know where it leads, and today it came to a head. Do you not know? Is it me? Both?(... probably both.) It's CRAZY! I see it again an' again, and y'all keep engaging. I don't understand. Why do you keep feeding it‽

You have here doubled down and said that we are acting crazy in all caps, which is typically understood online to mean yelling. You say you don't understand and ask questions, but even setting aside the tone issues I mentioned, it does not feel like you want an actual answer given that you answered yourself in the first post, characterized it before asking to understand it, asked it again after I explained by dismissing my answer as atypical, and most clearly, declared your entire post as rhetorical in the title which usually means someone wants to declare things in the form of a question, not to get an answer or to gain understanding.

Yes, I was in tone yelling, and with reason... I didn't understand, or rather, I didn't consider at the time that this was a game, as I mentioned above. And so... YES! YES! IN THAT CONTEXT, it was CRAZY! You keep pushing that I'm trying to make some ego play, but that isn't it at all! In my recollection. it never has, it's not my deal.

Maybe my early days of internet use, but eh... decades.

...and yet... the post I decided to make this observation public became, it seems, the exception the rule.
(Fuck me right? >_<)

I am sorry if I've offended you. Hopefully its obvious that's never my goal, but... heh, odds are with my preverbal luck.

It's not luck. It's the way you posted. Guardians make their own fate.

Fate is a funny thing brother. Just when you think you know what it is... you don't.

Further clarification; I don't "Bust" in. Jumping in and threshing around a sudden "Fuck you" with no context would be "busting" in. I take my time to post something with a purpose, and in this case I took far too long. I can't see how many new posts are being made while I compose a post, though I guess I have to make those considerations now too. These gifts of mine just keep on giving.

I said "bust in" for two reasons. First, you showed no effort to engage in good faith before writing off the entire thread and everyone who posted in it, and two because I had read a full and valuable discussion before I got to your post. The first part I stand behind, but the latter is down to me not really liking or switching my mental model to threaded format message boards. I have not gone back to check time stamps, but I forgot until now that just because your post was at the bottom of a long list of posts does not mean it came after, only that I read it after. That was my error.

This was a fear I had after I posted and saw how... oh wow, large it had become so quickly. It is why I added in at the end "When I started this it was MUCH MUCH smaller." I don't really like making large edits after I post, so it was the best I could do in the moment. My error in part was not checking, but even then that can be a touch of RNG, if you will, as the speed of growth and swiftness of topic change is rather dynamic.

Below this post is a talk about Sandwiches. I'm ok with this (:D!). Sure didn't see the topic becoming such though.

You know... I really wish folks could be far less myopic with this regular, but I suppose that's a bum dream of mine. I guess I'm jUsT tHe CrAzY guY pOsTinG GiBbErIsh!

You pretty frequently lament that people don't understand you or understand you poorly. You also, though, have this fatalistic tone about it. Sometimes — like here — you put the onus on them to understand you better. Do you want actual advice for things you can try so other people will be more likely to understand your meaning? If you got it would you be willing to change so people didn't feel like they wasted their time for trying to help? I'm truly not telling you what to do here. If you want to keep posting the way you do despite confusion because it makes you happy, then OK. (though, again, with the laments) I'm certainly not going to tell you how to write unrequested in a post where I identify paternalistic tone. I post a lot of stuff that incorporates obscure references that I don't expect many or any to get because it makes me happy that at least *I* got it and the rest goes to boot.

Well, yeah. You know what type of QUACK I make, shoot, you more than others if I recall correctly. Hawaiian Pig too, if he lurks around here. The onus, fantastic word by the way, is from my being a regular here which often affords certain social privileges. If I'm some random, I have to modifies how I post, particularity conversationally. As there is no repoire to relay on, just base understandings and fears of human nature. If you were new to the forum, the jest of what you concluded would be plausibly far more understandable, instead of insulting.

Too which...

Now that's insulting, but, like you all care. Thanks for the time of day folks. Been swell. ;_;

Nobody called you crazy, or even that you post crazy things. (at least not to my memory, and it wasn't me) That's an important distinction as it is the difference in ad homonym. Gibberish is frequently used to be insulting by implying the ideas are nonsense, but 1) again, nobody said it but you, and 2) really, like Babel (which you also used) it's originally a reference to communication problems that arose from people who came from different backgrounds and/or spoke different languages. Finally, while I don't expect I'm soothing you anywhere in this reply, throwing out the idea that we don't care is ungrounded in fact. You were not ignored like a spam message, I treated you like a member of the community that I thought was hurting it. As they say, the opposite of love is not hate; it's indifference.

And we come whole circle. Crazy was not stated, but it was surly implied. You told me to shut my mouth when all I was doing, in a fluster - with reason, was addressing something deeply confounding and troubling to me. Why is this ok? ...oh... it's a game.

Woops. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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For the other things directed exactly to Cody... eh, it was in jest, that's why I went all simple Shakeperean-esk in "insult" format.

Do you bite your thumb at ME, sir?

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Should I expect a post next on the ham sandwich you had? Which then of course will become an argument on the meat industry and-or how vegetables give you awful gas?

Mount Rushmore of Sandwiches: (Sliced loaf bread only)

Peanut Butter & Jelly
Grilled Cheese
BLT
Reuben

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Should I expect a post next on the ham sandwich you had? Which then of course will become an argument on the meat industry and-or how vegetables give you awful gas?

Mount Rushmore of Sandwiches: (Sliced loaf bread only)

Peanut Butter & Jelly
Grilled Cheese
BLT
Reuben

I read this post too quickly - I thought it was a recipe, at first.

I was horrified.

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Should I expect a post next on the ham sandwich you had? Which then of course will become an argument on the meat industry and-or how vegetables give you awful gas?

Mount Rushmore of Sandwiches: (Sliced loaf bread only)

Peanut Butter & Jelly
Grilled Cheese
BLT
Reuben

I'd replace Ruben with turkey, but whatevs.

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There was a (recently closed, alas) place near me that had a "rebel Ruben" that substituted turkey for the corned beef. I'm not going to declare one better, but it was a very good sandwich.

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No the prequel revealed Rachel was kind of terrible.

[image]

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Should I expect a post next on the ham sandwich you had? Which then of course will become an argument on the meat industry and-or how vegetables give you awful gas?

Mount Rushmore of Sandwiches: (Sliced loaf bread only)

Peanut Butter & Jelly
Grilled Cheese
BLT
Reuben

Grilled ham and cheese > grilled cheese
Don't @ me

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Croque monsieur/madame makes some pretty image search.

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The only Exotic recipe that isn't a drink!

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Pork loin with pineapple > ham with anything

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Pork loin with pineapple > ham with anything

What are you on about!? I'm not arguing that your proposal isn't delicious, but nobody in the world has ever said "Man, I could really go for a pork loin with pineapple sandwich."

Get outta here with that mess.

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Pork loin with pineapple > ham with anything

What are you on about!? I'm not arguing that your proposal isn't delicious, but nobody in the world has ever said "Man, I could really go for a pork loin with pineapple sandwich."

Get outta here with that mess.

That sounds like a fairly predictable way someone would fuck up a Cubano. I bet in some Marriott restaurant somewhere is described a tropical Cuban.

(honestly I might even try it. The Mojo marinade is welcome to incorporate pineapple juice in my mind, so my concern is less flavor than moisture problems.)

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I don't know why anyone's having trouble with this.

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I don't know why anyone's having trouble with this.

It's definitely a challenge when explaining it to people who are lapsed gamers. I've got some extended family who I grew up gaming with and we're getting some weekly game nights in. They were considering everyone getting xbox's and it was exhausting explaining to them what is currently available vs what will soon be available.

That's as much a console launch year issue as anything else, but the naming definitely doesn't help.

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First, because they are confusing names. Even amongst the initiated it can be difficult to talk about these things. They named their third console "one" and then used the "one" name for 3 different consoles. It goes against the commonly understood meeting of the word. Now, the new console(s) use names that are half the same, but the part they changed was from "One" to "Series"? Those two words do not fit on a continuum. Nothing about that indicates the generational placement* It feels like there is a word missing that would give it more specificity on where it lives in the lineup.** Something like Scorpio Series X or Xbox 4 Series X.

Also, though, because it's always a time of confusion when a new console comes out. Well-meaning grandparents who get the multi-platform game for the wrong platform will also give the gift of a Super Nintendo Game for someone who still has the NES because the clerk who does not know you said it was a popular game. Twas ever thus, except now with worse naming.

*which I speculate may be the plan. The X series and the S series and whatever other series see updates disconnected from the idea of generations in the future — more like PCs are not generational releases
** see also: Apple Watch Edition

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MOM I TOLD YOU A MILLION TIMES STUPID

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I laughed out loud. Not always the case, honestly. I often shake my head and remind myself that I'm getting old. ;)

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I laughed out loud. Not always the case, honestly. I often shake my head and remind myself that I'm getting old. ;)

Getting?

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but true

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