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Cyberpunk looks like hot dogshit. (Gaming)

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, December 09, 2020, 22:41 (1205 days ago)

Seriously, holy shit.

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Cyberpunk looks like hot dogshit.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, December 09, 2020, 23:00 (1205 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Seriously, holy shit.

That's some Bioshock Infinite level gunplay right there!

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Oh dear

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Thursday, December 10, 2020, 08:11 (1205 days ago) @ cheapLEY

That is appalling. Assuming it's better on the new consoles, this really seems like a case where it shouldn't have even been made for previous-gen systems.

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*CP on 7 y.o. console w/o d1 patches looks like hot dogshit.

by Speedracer513 @, Dallas, Texas, Thursday, December 10, 2020, 08:15 (1205 days ago) @ cheapLEY

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Oh come on.

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, December 10, 2020, 09:21 (1205 days ago) @ Speedracer513
edited by cheapLEY, Thursday, December 10, 2020, 09:41

That’s a ridiculous position. If I can buy it on a 7 year old console, it should fucking work on that 7 year old console. And don’t get me stared on day one patches. It’s not the consumers fault they went gold and printed discs facing months ago and then decided “Oh wait, actually it’s not done yet.” Not having a day one patch doesn’t make it better, that’s the version of the game you will get if you walk into a store and spend $60 on a disc.

Edited: Removed something that was more aggressive sounding than I intend.

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Oh come on.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, December 10, 2020, 09:33 (1205 days ago) @ cheapLEY

That’s asinine. Sorry, it is. That’s a ridiculous position. If I can buy it on a 7 year old console, it should fucking work on that 7 year old console. And don’t get me stared on day one patches. It’s not the consumers fault they went gold and printed discs facing months ago and then decided “Oh wait, actually it’s not done yet.” Not having a day one patch doesn’t make it better, that’s the version of the game you will get if you walk into a store and spend $60 on a disc.

This is a risk they take. They are okay with people playing that version of the game. And so they must be willing to accept that those people might complain and make the game look bad.

I could not bring myself to play Witcher III (boring tedious follow the line quests), but I have ordered this since it is somewhat of a cultural phenomenon and it's worth exploring just based on that. I mean, they had a tie in with Kurzgesagt! A major Hollywood Star. It's kind of everywhere, and it looks bad but in a socially interesting way, where I am hoping criticism can grow our cultural understanding. Or am I expecting too much from the people who write about games?

Oh come on.

by EffortlessFury @, Thursday, December 10, 2020, 14:07 (1205 days ago) @ cheapLEY

That’s a ridiculous position.

It's not a position, it's a fact. I agree that CP2077 is a hot mess no matter what platform you're on, but context is also important.

Cyberpunk looks like hot dogshit.

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, December 10, 2020, 09:31 (1205 days ago) @ cheapLEY

All the commenters (and the article) are discussing visual problems... but is nobody going to talk about the astoundingly brain-dead AI on display?

Seriously. I thought I was watching gameplay footage from the 90s.

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Cyberpunk looks like hot dogshit.

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, December 10, 2020, 09:40 (1205 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Yeah, that’s the thing.

I’ve seen plenty of footage that looks “acceptable” from PC players. It still doesn’t look like a very good game.

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Crowbcat Is Gonna Have SO Much Fun With This...

by Morpheus @, High Charity, Thursday, December 10, 2020, 11:53 (1205 days ago) @ cheapLEY

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Kewl Bugs (NSFW)

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, December 10, 2020, 17:12 (1204 days ago) @ cheapLEY

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Cyberpunk—definitely wait.

by cheapLEY @, Friday, December 11, 2020, 16:15 (1203 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I played a couple hours last night. I like it so far. It’s but the massive game changer it was hyper to be, but if you liked the modern Deus Ex games, it’s a good one of those.

It’s worth waiting for patches though. Even on Series X, it’s not exactly pretty. Lots of awful textures and pop in, and reflections look particularly bad. I’m sure they will get it fixed—The Witcher 3 was pretty bad at launch too.

I may just wait until the next gen update next year, depending on how long of a wait that is. I don’t think they’ve given any sort of target date yet.

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Cyberpunk—definitely wait.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, December 12, 2020, 17:07 (1202 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I played a couple hours last night. I like it so far. It’s but the massive game changer it was hyper to be, but if you liked the modern Deus Ex games, it’s a good one of those.

…is it though?

So there's a heist. There's a big song and dance about using the brain dance to locate the safe and security systems. So cool. I figured I'd have to figure out how to get in, which could be accomplished in a variety of ways. but… no. You just do exactly what the game prompts you to do, do some scripted stuff with the hammerhead, and you go get the biochip. Then a mandatory combat section.

Like… no. Maybe it opens up, but so far I haven't had to make one real decision, or really been given any freedom or responsibility for accomplishing the goals. Keep in mind the very first level of Deus Ex was a masterclass in non linear multiple solutions mission design.

Doesn't feel like much of a heist when it's all decided and planned for me.

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Cyberpunk—definitely wait.

by cheapLEY @, Saturday, December 12, 2020, 17:53 (1202 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Did you do any of the side missions before that point? They’re pretty open ended as far as how you approach them. I did one to kill a Tyger member. It’s in a pretty small area, but the combination of stealth, hacking, and fighting is super seamless. Even in the heist you’re talking about, once the building is on lock down it’s pretty open as to how you escape. Sure, there’s a set path, but you can stealth through it and take the guards out one by one, you can hack stuff to distract them and sneak around them, or you can just shoot your way out.

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Cyberpunk—definitely wait.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, December 12, 2020, 18:22 (1202 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by Cody Miller, Saturday, December 12, 2020, 18:43

Did you do any of the side missions before that point? They’re pretty open ended as far as how you approach them. I did one to kill a Tyger member. It’s in a pretty small area, but the combination of stealth, hacking, and fighting is super seamless. Even in the heist you’re talking about, once the building is on lock down it’s pretty open as to how you escape. Sure, there’s a set path, but you can stealth through it and take the guards out one by one, you can hack stuff to distract them and sneak around them, or you can just shoot your way out.

I did one… where I had to confront a cop. I'll admit, it was cool to have her draw her gun on me with me still in control telling me to freeze. Would she shoot me if I move? It was all happening 'in game' as I had to talk her down.

But the side quest system is just… bad. Rather than get them by exploring the world and uncovering things myself, you just open your journal for a list of them that are out of nowhere?!

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Cyberpunk—definitely wait.

by cheapLEY @, Saturday, December 12, 2020, 21:04 (1202 days ago) @ Cody Miller

It’s definitely sort of messy as far as quest tracking goes. The phone buzzes constantly and it’s sort of annoying. The fixers work basically the same way as the mission boards did in The Witcher 3. Each one has quests for the area it’s in. I just don’t need notifications every time there is a new car available for me to buy or steal. Like I’ve never met you and you’re blowing up my phone with bullshit.

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Cyberpunk—definitely wait.

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Sunday, December 13, 2020, 21:50 (1201 days ago) @ cheapLEY

until the next gen update next year

Are you telling me that after all this hype they don't even have a separate version for the new consoles?

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Cyberpunk—definitely wait.

by cheapLEY @, Monday, December 14, 2020, 07:22 (1201 days ago) @ stabbim

Not yet they don’t. Coming next year at some point.

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Relief comes in February

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, December 14, 2020, 11:57 (1201 days ago) @ cheapLEY

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CDPR is giving bonuses despite MC scores

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Friday, December 11, 2020, 18:44 (1203 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I guess that's a good thing overall? I mean, I'm all for people who put a lot of work in getting paid, but this all seems like a hard indictment on the whole crunch/carrot system.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-11/cd-projekt-changes-developer-bonus-structure-after-buggy-release

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Cyberpunk patch.

by cheapLEY @, Saturday, December 12, 2020, 17:54 (1202 days ago) @ cheapLEY

A new patch hit today. Pretty decent improvement on the Series X. Texture and asset streaming seems much better.

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Non Binary Choices

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, December 13, 2020, 21:19 (1201 days ago) @ cheapLEY

It's getting more interesting with regards to choices and how you've spec'd your character.

Turns out that after talking with some friends who have been playing the game, I've been making important choices without even knowing it. This is good. Feels natural.

I've also skipped like 3 boss fights too lol.

But Deus Ex is still better.

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Non Binary Choices

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Monday, December 14, 2020, 07:21 (1201 days ago) @ Cody Miller

It's getting more interesting with regards to choices and how you've spec'd your character.

Turns out that after talking with some friends who have been playing the game, I've been making important choices without even knowing it. This is good. Feels natural.

It's really not obvious. Comparing notes to other people made it dawn on me how insane the branching is.

I've also skipped like 3 boss fights too lol.

I had a supposed boss help me in a fight. This game.

But Deus Ex is still better.

Dunno. Maybe the original if you also throw it a bone because of its age. So far, Cyberpunk has been on par in encounter design and better in "choice matters".

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Non Binary Choices

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, December 14, 2020, 09:11 (1201 days ago) @ ZackDark

It's getting more interesting with regards to choices and how you've spec'd your character.

Turns out that after talking with some friends who have been playing the game, I've been making important choices without even knowing it. This is good. Feels natural.


It's really not obvious. Comparing notes to other people made it dawn on me how insane the branching is.

I've also skipped like 3 boss fights too lol.


I had a supposed boss help me in a fight. This game.

But Deus Ex is still better.


Dunno. Maybe the original if you also throw it a bone because of its age. So far, Cyberpunk has been on par in encounter design and better in "choice matters".

I’d like to finish (and perhaps make different choices first) before I really compare, but it all comes down to the old aesthetics vs mechanics issue.

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Cyberpunk is hot dogshit even on PS4 Pro

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, December 13, 2020, 18:33 (1201 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by Cody Miller, Sunday, December 13, 2020, 18:36

I thought this was just because it was on the base PS4. It runs like shit even on the PS4 PRO. This is… pretty inexcusable. Driving anywhere drops the framerate to embarrassing levels. I'm astounded at how bad it is. I'm literally tempted to wait until next year when I get a PS5 to play a game that's for PS4.

Mostly I feel bad for Keanu Reeves. He doesn't deserve this.

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Performance Hierarchy

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, December 14, 2020, 17:40 (1200 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Xbox Series X > PS5 > Xbox Series S > PS4 Pro > Xbox One X > PS4 > Xbox One

Consider when buying.

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Performance Hierarchy

by cheapLEY @, Monday, December 14, 2020, 18:04 (1200 days ago) @ Cody Miller

It depends on what you’re looking for. PS5 is arguably better in that it’s closer to being a stable 60fps. Series X has some more extreme dips in places, but it does seem to have higher NPC density and better image quality. It also has a quality mode that’s a very stable 30fps with the best resolution and image settings you’ll get outside of PC. PS5 only has one mode for some reason.

I would straight up not buy this game for a last gen console right now. I’m really digging it, but even on a Series X I’m putting it down for a while. It’s perfectly playable, but even all the small shit adds up to be just annoying enough that it really takes me out of enjoying the game.

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Performance Hierarchy

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, December 14, 2020, 22:50 (1200 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by Cody Miller, Monday, December 14, 2020, 22:56

It depends on what you’re looking for. PS5 is arguably better in that it’s closer to being a stable 60fps. Series X has some more extreme dips in places, but it does seem to have higher NPC density and better image quality. It also has a quality mode that’s a very stable 30fps with the best resolution and image settings you’ll get outside of PC. PS5 only has one mode for some reason.

I would straight up not buy this game for a last gen console right now. I’m really digging it, but even on a Series X I’m putting it down for a while. It’s perfectly playable, but even all the small shit adds up to be just annoying enough that it really takes me out of enjoying the game.

Dude, if you're putting it down take advantage of the refund option. You can get a refund if you bought digital even beyond the 2 hour playtime, or physical from CDPR if your store won't take it back. You have until December 21st.

Then, buy it again in February on current gen.

Which makes me curious… how did this game pass cert? Like, I've had half a dozen crashes already. What the hell good is the cert process if they don't reject things that don't work?

Turns out, that is NOT the case...

by EffortlessFury @, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 07:12 (1200 days ago) @ Cody Miller

jfc CDPR

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How much shittier can the situation get? lol

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 09:02 (1200 days ago) @ EffortlessFury

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How much shittier can the situation get? lol

by cheapLEY @, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 09:40 (1200 days ago) @ Cody Miller

The game could be bad once they make it actually work, I guess.

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I'm legit surprised at how hyped people were for this

by kidtsunami @, Atlanta, GA, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 09:49 (1200 days ago) @ cheapLEY

The game could be bad once they make it actually work, I guess.

It looked like it was going through a very troubled development cycle while having a very aggressive "get hyped" marketing angle.

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I'm legit surprised at how hyped people were for this

by cheapLEY @, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 10:06 (1200 days ago) @ kidtsunami
edited by cheapLEY, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 10:16

Don’t get me wrong, me too.

I always thought it looked like a fun game, but the marketing never got me hyped (and did the opposite, more often than not).

I do think it’s a fun game. I think it’s politics fucking suck, though. It sure seems like they missed the whole social commentary part of what Cyberpunk actually is.

In one scene, Jackie (the player character’s best friend) is ranting about cops. Not thirty seconds later, we witness highly militarized cops descend from a ship in an intersection and just murder a group of people and Jackie’s comment is just “they probably deserved it.” The game has been filled with little shit like that.

Cyberpyschos, too. They’re people who get bad tech (or too much tech, or something) and then lose their humanity and go crazy. Like cool, so disabled people get bad prosthetics then go insane. What the fuck is that? So the fixer who wants you to deal with this plays the whole “it’s not their fault, they just need help” to try and soften that shit take, I guess, but then they do just turn out to be boss fights where you can decide to kill them or try and take them out non-lethally. And if you kill them, you basically just get an “oh well, shame you had to kill them” and get your money by and move on.

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I'm legit surprised at how hyped people were for this

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 10:48 (1200 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I think you are right. The game appears to use the aesthetic in a fairly superficial way.

[image]

There was a controversy prerelease about the Chromanticore ads. The ad depicts a woman with a very prominent penis in an ad for an energy drink with the tag line "Mix it up", seeming to imply that gender identity is somethign you can just pick and choose on a whim. The drink name, Chromanticore, seems like a combination of chromosome and Manticore. The manticore being a fictional beast that is cobbled together from various animal parts. Uh, yikes. But to defend it the artist said something along the lines of "it's just a fictional ad, and I like the way this person looks".

I think that kind of encapsulates everything about the game. They just like the way it looks. But under I don't really see the setting re-enforcing themes, of having things be explored with much depth. The game is loaded with queer and trans imagery , and yet it's all aesthetic. I've met only one character who MIGHT be coded as queer, and he's a giant degenerate. There's no real exploration of what body modification does to gender identity and the role of queer people in society (a cyberpunk game that actually does this is Red Strings Club). It all seems there to give the illusion of edge, which itself is kind of troubling.

I kind of think in general, history has proven the ethos of cyberpunk to just be flat out wrong. The idea that technology is the equalizer - that rougue hackers can win the hearts and minds of the public and fight the corporate machine with their intrusions. The idea that networking and technology lets you be who you are. That things would be okay if the TRUTH got out. That's… kind of bullshit isn't it? We're seeing how the real way to fight back against the 'man' is to disconnect. Delete your facebook. Stop performing on social media. Buy local and not from Amazon. Get off your computer and organize grassroots. The idea of hackers changing the world seems just like another narcissistic fantasy from those who are themselves disconnected from reality. Why else would hackers adopt aliases that they use everywhere? To create an identity. The identity they wish they were. As time goes on the genre seems as a means of escape and wish fulfillment rather than prescriptive action.

This sort of superficial quest to define your own identity is embraced by the game. Drinks get named after legendary mercs who go out in a blaze of glory. Jackie and others talk about wanting to "be remembered" so they can live on forever. As if outside the little community of crooks this matters at all. As you say, there's not much thought given to the social situations the game presents beyond spectacle or challenge.

I am somewhat impressed with the depth of some of the characters… however this doesn't have much to do with the 'cyberpunk' setting or theming of the game.

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I'm legit surprised at how hyped people were for this

by cheapLEY @, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 11:17 (1200 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Is all very well realized as a setting, in some ways. It’s a believable world. But it seems like haven’t really given much consideration to what any of that means in the context of that world, or how it might reflect our own.

I remember the controversy of that ad. I seem to recall either the artist or maybe just the company saying that it shows how everyone and everything is commoditized. Which, fine, but it doesn’t seem like they are interested in exploring that any more. It’s all just set dressing. Very impressive set dressing, I guess, but that’s still all it is.

Which, even that is fine. I think the goal of just making a fun video game is fine, but it still absolutely says something about the politics of the people who made it, or at least the politics of the world in which it was made, and that the game is what it is in that regard is disappointing.

Look at the character creator. You can mix and match genitals, but for no reason whatsoever. The game doesn’t have anything to say about it, it’s just something you can do. Which, again, that’s fine. If it means someone can make V match themselves in that regard, that’s cool! But then they tie the pronoun everyone in the game uses for V to whether you picked masculine or feminine voice. Like c’mon, that should be basic shit.

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I'm legit surprised at how hyped people were for this

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 11:23 (1200 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I remember the controversy of that ad. I seem to recall either the artist or maybe just the company saying that it shows how everyone and everything is commoditized. Which, fine, but it doesn’t seem like they are interested in exploring that any more.

The point is that in a way they are themselves guilty of that. By using all of this as texture to sell you the 'world' they have created.

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I'm legit surprised at how hyped people were for this

by squidnh3, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 13:18 (1200 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I kind of think in general, history has proven the ethos of cyberpunk to just be flat out wrong. The idea that technology is the equalizer - that rougue hackers can win the hearts and minds of the public and fight the corporate machine with their intrusions. The idea that networking and technology lets you be who you are. That things would be okay if the TRUTH got out. That's… kind of bullshit isn't it? We're seeing how the real way to fight back against the 'man' is to disconnect. Delete your facebook. Stop performing on social media. Buy local and not from Amazon. Get off your computer and organize grassroots. The idea of hackers changing the world seems just like another narcissistic fantasy from those who are themselves disconnected from reality. Why else would hackers adopt aliases that they use everywhere? To create an identity. The identity they wish they were. As time goes on the genre seems as a means of escape and wish fulfillment rather than prescriptive action.

Does cyberpunk really have a uniform message like you describe? I literally just finished reading Neuromancer for the first time and that was not my takeaway.

I'm legit surprised at how hyped people were for this

by marmot 1333 @, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 14:00 (1200 days ago) @ squidnh3

I kind of think in general, history has proven the ethos of cyberpunk to just be flat out wrong. The idea that technology is the equalizer - that rougue hackers can win the hearts and minds of the public and fight the corporate machine with their intrusions. The idea that networking and technology lets you be who you are. That things would be okay if the TRUTH got out. That's… kind of bullshit isn't it? We're seeing how the real way to fight back against the 'man' is to disconnect. Delete your facebook. Stop performing on social media. Buy local and not from Amazon. Get off your computer and organize grassroots. The idea of hackers changing the world seems just like another narcissistic fantasy from those who are themselves disconnected from reality. Why else would hackers adopt aliases that they use everywhere? To create an identity. The identity they wish they were. As time goes on the genre seems as a means of escape and wish fulfillment rather than prescriptive action.


Does cyberpunk really have a uniform message like you describe? I literally just finished reading Neuromancer for the first time and that was not my takeaway.

*Pushes glasses up nose* As someone who has read every single William Gibson book--and a lot of similar books by various other authors--I would agree that this is not my takeaway of "what cyberpunk is".

I always thought of cyberpunk as a setting, not as a call to action or moral code. Many of the characters are extremely flawed as are the societies in which they live, which are generally dominated by megacorporations. I'll... stop there.

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I'm legit surprised at how hyped people were for this

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 14:35 (1200 days ago) @ marmot 1333

I always thought of cyberpunk as a setting, not as a call to action or moral code. Many of the characters are extremely flawed as are the societies in which they live, which are generally dominated by megacorporations. I'll... stop there.

"Cyberpunk can be intended to disquiet readers and call them to action. It often expresses a sense of rebellion, suggesting that one could describe it as a type of cultural revolution in science fiction. In the words of author and critic David Brin:

...a closer look [at cyberpunk authors] reveals that they nearly always portray future societies in which governments have become wimpy and pathetic ...Popular science fiction tales by Gibson, Williams, Cadigan and others do depict Orwellian accumulations of power in the next century, but nearly always clutched in the secretive hands of a wealthy or corporate elite."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk

Not that wiki is any authority, but at least one author shares my interpretation.

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I'm legit surprised at how hyped people were for this

by squidnh3, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 15:14 (1199 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Not that wiki is any authority, but at least one author shares my interpretation.

Well, I did like "The Postman", but I can't remember much about "Earth" so Brin's a mixed bag for me I guess.

If I had to describe my takeaway from Neuromancer (and I'm still digesting) I would trend towards more nihilistic, and I would describe any rebellious attitudes as undirected. I would certainly not say that modern day events have "proved it wrong".

I'm legit surprised at how hyped people were for this

by marmot 1333 @, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 15:30 (1199 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I always thought of cyberpunk as a setting, not as a call to action or moral code. Many of the characters are extremely flawed as are the societies in which they live, which are generally dominated by megacorporations. I'll... stop there.


"Cyberpunk can be intended to disquiet readers and call them to action. It often expresses a sense of rebellion, suggesting that one could describe it as a type of cultural revolution in science fiction. In the words of author and critic David Brin:

...a closer look [at cyberpunk authors] reveals that they nearly always portray future societies in which governments have become wimpy and pathetic ...Popular science fiction tales by Gibson, Williams, Cadigan and others do depict Orwellian accumulations of power in the next century, but nearly always clutched in the secretive hands of a wealthy or corporate elite."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk

Not that wiki is any authority, but at least one author shares my interpretation.

So that's interesting that it literally said "call to action" but I don't really agree with that part, and I don't think the supporting quote does either. Definitely agree with wimpy governments.

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Reminds me of a book.

by slycrel ⌂, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 20:48 (1199 days ago) @ Cody Miller

If I had to sum up cyberpunk it would be -- a fight for the freedom of the individual, apart from an oppressive collective, in a super-human technical setting.

For those interested in digging in more to foundational cyberpunk, I'd recommend a copy of the hacker crackdown for a real-life example of the beginnings of cyberpunk culture. Written by Bruce Sterling, a sci-fi cyberpunk author who helped define the genre. It's primarily about hacker culture, and includes stories on steve jackson games (who did the GURPS cyberpunk role-playing games), operation sundevil, the birth of the EFF and more. In the spirit of early hacker manifestos, it was released for free digitally and can still be found that way today.

Bruce Sterling does a fantastic job of discussing hacker culture and the essence of what I feel is inherently foundational cyberpunk. In some ways I feel this culture has grown/endured and become multi-faceted, and can be found in many places now -- the white and black hat conferences along with the computer security industry (hello kevin mitnick!), the "dark web", the mobile jailbreaking community... just to name a few examples.

I'm very much looking forward to this game, and am still trying to get my hands on a ps5 before I play it. Should be fun, even if it's a bit buggy. =)

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Guess I'll chime in now.

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 15:50 (1199 days ago) @ EffortlessFury

jfc CDPR

First of all, I want to say how glad I am to hear that the makers, artists and programmers alike, will not be affected by upper managements choices. That is a such solid move. Far far too rare. Second of all, a large subset of bugs was to be expected. Anyone who thought this game was gong to be a polished shine is either new to video games or so hyped as to abandon reason. Just look at Skyrim, Fallout 4, or Witcher 3 in their earliest stages of launch. These huge roaming game worlds are always a sea of critters at launch. The size simply demands it. There simply aren't enough hours in a day for QA. It's this reason alone why I didn't bother to get this game at launch. Shoot! Look at all the bugs listed at the end of the recent TWABs for Destiny: Beyond Light right now! It's quite a list.

That said I've been mildly surprised at the severity of issues seen by some. I also see where the mistakes may have been made by CDPR. Where at some point, the folks in charge of keeping the ship upright in upper management went... "oh shit, we screwed up". Possibly. I don't know for sure, but... here is a hypothesis of sorts.

TL;DR; Blame 2020.

When they started working on the game, which has to be at least farther than the 10th of January 2013 on a preliminary standard, The Xbox One/PS4 had yet to come out. Xbox One LAUNCHED on November 22, 2013. PS4, November 15, 2013. And so that's where things got started in aim.

And for a time... it was good. (Except when they got their stuff stolen in 2017.)

But somewhere along the line a deadline was made in error. Or worse, a deadline WASN'T made, and was an even greater error. And such was done multiple times. That line being - what are we going to support? Why were they still doing R&D 5 years after the initial announcement trailer?

There is this little thing called "feature creep". These "feature creep" sirens can vary easily wreck your ship upon the rocky coast of a publishing deadline. Oh there are so many cool features we could add! If I had to guess one of the sirens names, it would be " Real-Time Ray Tracing". This real-time variant of tech only hit the main stream channels publicly about two years ago or so after decades of progressive research. We only just got the first wave of dedicated hardware to pull of such calculations this year (as last year was only software based hackery as I recall). There is probably much more than that (such as stream processing, global illumination, and procedural generation), but for the sake of simplicity I'm blaming RTRT here.

Look at this. In 2019 they were working on polishing the game, which at that time was due to launch in April of 2020.

It was all very impressive, although unlike last year’s demo the fact that this is a game nearly a year away from completion was more obvious – with enemies that seemed to get stuck behind in-game objects and somewhat unconvincing-looking gunplay.

Ironically, that probably means this was a more representative demo than last year’s, and the fact that Sasko made no attempt to hide the demo’s rough edges was encouraging. In fact, he implied that the game was almost content complete and that the next 10 months would be used primarily to refine and polish what’s already there.

If they had launched in April 2020, would things have been better? I don't know. Probably not, it's not like Covid-19 did any favors with the time table. But I don't think them launching at the same time as the X/S, the PS5 and the latest and greatest NVIDIA/AMD Video Cards (all of which are being sold at a kings ransom by scalpers... the fucks,) did any favors either. They probably knew about the proposed launch dates before the public did, and so... there is where the distraction really came in with force. The shareholders really love that shiny shit!

Delay (April to September), "LOL no Crunch?", A September to November Delay, "LOL Sleep?", "LOL SUDDEN UNSCHEDULED DELAY!" (November to December).

Let me translate that for you; Oh shit OH Shit OH SHIT!

They were making for something new that is now old. They are also supporting PC, which has multiple generations of tech that leapfrogs Xbox One and PS4. What a GAP! And, I guess they wanted the selling points, and that is being able to show off the Raytraced Lighting and NVIDIA scaling trickery. OH! 4k Raytrace 60 FPS!!! KWOOL!

And so Xbox One and PS4 got kicked to the curb. Even though they put all this time into it... it's not the new hotness anymore. And as a result of their being distracted, all that work is squandered. Even though it can be all fixed after the fact (just look at No Mans Sky) the initial reviews are forever.

2020 really was too exciting for basically everyone.

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Guess I'll chime in now.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 16:18 (1199 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

But I am still baffled at how it passed certification. The game crashes REGULARLY. I was under the impression that to pass cert, your game must not ever crash. If this got past certification, then what the hell is certification FOR?!

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Guess I'll chime in now.

by Speedracer513 @, Dallas, Texas, Tuesday, December 15, 2020, 20:13 (1199 days ago) @ Cody Miller

But I am still baffled at how it passed certification. The game crashes REGULARLY. I was under the impression that to pass cert, your game must not ever crash. If this got past certification, then what the hell is certification FOR?!

Read this twitter thread for the answer:

https://twitter.com/tha_rami/status/1338978911678590984

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Guess I'll chime in now.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, December 16, 2020, 00:26 (1199 days ago) @ Speedracer513

But I am still baffled at how it passed certification. The game crashes REGULARLY. I was under the impression that to pass cert, your game must not ever crash. If this got past certification, then what the hell is certification FOR?!


Read this twitter thread for the answer:

https://twitter.com/tha_rami/status/1338978911678590984

That explains why bugs and glitches and performance issues get past cert, but not crashes. The game literally crashes. Often. In fact, the very thread you linked says crashes are a fail condition (the example he uses is unplugging the controller leads to a crash = fail).

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That is not at all how I interpreted this thread

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Wednesday, December 16, 2020, 06:14 (1199 days ago) @ Cody Miller

- No text -

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Guess I'll chime in now.

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, December 16, 2020, 15:11 (1198 days ago) @ Cody Miller

That thread also specifically calls out waivers. They probably acknowledged the issues and applied for waivers with promises it would be fixed in the day one patch, which apparently isn’t uncommon.

Jeff Gerstmann talks about it in the Giant Bomb podcast that went up yesterday. It also just has a good discussion about the game in general. Discussion of the game is after the first few minutes, and the stuff about cert is around the 24:00 mark.

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Sony offering refunds

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, December 17, 2020, 17:28 (1197 days ago) @ cheapLEY

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Sony offering refunds

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, December 17, 2020, 17:43 (1197 days ago) @ Cody Miller
edited by cheapLEY, Thursday, December 17, 2020, 17:49

The bigger news is that they’re removing it from the PS store. That’s wild and clearly not good for CDPR. I’m not sure how to feel about that. I think this might be the first time this has happened.

Although, thinking about it, CDPR kind of forced the issue. By releasing a statement advising refunds (seemingly without actually making some sort of deal with Sony and MS), they are forcing Sony to deal with the costs of processing refunds en masse—it makes sense they would remove the game from sale until the issues that cause refunds are fixed.

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Sony offering refunds

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, December 17, 2020, 20:25 (1197 days ago) @ cheapLEY

The bigger news is that they’re removing it from the PS store. That’s wild and clearly not good for CDPR. I’m not sure how to feel about that. I think this might be the first time this has happened.

Don’t care. Bought physical :-p

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Sony offering refunds

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, December 17, 2020, 20:40 (1197 days ago) @ Cody Miller

It’s not like they’re taking it from people, they’re just not selling any more. I wonder what MS will do.

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MS now too, and Best Buy for Physical copies

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, December 18, 2020, 15:40 (1196 days ago) @ cheapLEY

This is pretty unprecedented.

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Hacking is very very strong

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, December 20, 2020, 00:05 (1195 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by Cody Miller, Sunday, December 20, 2020, 00:11

Ok, so some people talking about this game online (including reviewers like skill up) are saying hacking isn't any good.

WTF are they smoking.

If you spec for it and upgrade your cyberdeck, it's straight up almost broken. I can ping an enemy, then kill all the revealed enemies THROUGH WALLS all without firing a shot (literal wallhax lol). Disable all turrets and cameras with a breach protocol. Blow up mechanical things in one short circuit.

I literally have not fired a gun outside of the required sequences (scripted car chases and johnny's flashbacks)

After seeing what all my friends are doing, I think I can say it has nearly the complexity of possible builds and approaches that Deus Ex has. I would be excited to try a guns blazing or sword build or something, but this game… is really really long. And I have no idea how much is even left.

Also why is the entire internet thirsting for Panam? Judy's where it's at guys.

Also a weirdly relevant meme involving Deus Ex.

[image]

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Hacking is very very strong

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, December 20, 2020, 06:44 (1195 days ago) @ Cody Miller
edited by cheapLEY, Sunday, December 20, 2020, 06:50

Is it really long? I’ve heard you can get through it in as few as 20 hours.

I’m excited to play more (especially given the way you talk about it), but I think I’m still going to wait on patches.

I’m still not super far, but I was leaning into hacking already, and it seemed good from the very beginning. I’ve seen a lot of people online that are talking about what’s good or not good in the skill tree, but it doesn’t seem like any of them actually focused on a single direction, instead opting for a jack of all trades style. This very much seems like a game that is better if you focus on one or maybe two trees.

I do think guns feel pretty good to shoot, so I can see playing the game that way bring pretty fun.

What difficulty are you on? I started on Hard, and that seems like the way to go, because there have been instances where shooting my way out wasn’t really a viable option, or it was only barely so. The only thing that makes it possible is that the game really just throws tons of healing items at you. Again, I’m sure if I had put more points into gun skills that would be totally different.

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Hacking is very very strong

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Sunday, December 20, 2020, 07:12 (1195 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Is it really long? I’ve heard you can get through it in as few as 20 hours.

You can, but I'm at 20h myself and haven't even unlocked the first area yet.

What difficulty are you on? I started on Hard, and that seems like the way to go, because there have been instances where shooting my way out wasn’t really a viable option, or it was only barely so. The only thing that makes it possible is that the game really just throws tons of healing items at you. Again, I’m sure if I had put more points into gun skills that would be totally different.

I was wondering about that. I'm absolutely drowning in health stims, but I thought it was a Normal difficulty thing. Is it also like that in Hard?

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Hacking is very very strong

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, December 20, 2020, 09:49 (1195 days ago) @ ZackDark

Is it really long? I’ve heard you can get through it in as few as 20 hours.


You can, but I'm at 20h myself and haven't even unlocked the first area yet.

Some of the sidequests are really really intricate and story heavy. Very substantial. Others not so much. But if you don't do the intricate ones you are missing out.

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This.

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Sunday, December 20, 2020, 11:53 (1195 days ago) @ Cody Miller

- No text -

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Hacking is very very strong

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, December 20, 2020, 09:04 (1195 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I’m still not super far, but I was leaning into hacking already, and it seemed good from the very beginning. I’ve seen a lot of people online that are talking about what’s good or not good in the skill tree, but it doesn’t seem like any of them actually focused on a single direction, instead opting for a jack of all trades style. This very much seems like a game that is better if you focus on one or maybe two trees.

I'm 100% all in on intelligence. Already maxed it out, so putting points in to cool. Definitely focus.

What difficulty are you on? I started on Hard, and that seems like the way to go, because there have been instances where shooting my way out wasn’t really a viable option, or it was only barely so. The only thing that makes it possible is that the game really just throws tons of healing items at you. Again, I’m sure if I had put more points into gun skills that would be totally different.

Hard. It was the default surprisingly.

As far as patches go… I haven't had a crash in 3 days. 1.05 seems to have stopped that issue. Honestly the backlash is super overblown. Did they fuck it up? Yeah. But is it still playable and fun? Also yeah. I'm on the PS4 Pro. Don't know about the base systems.

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Hacking is very very strong

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, December 20, 2020, 12:17 (1195 days ago) @ Cody Miller

As far as patches go… I haven't had a crash in 3 days. 1.05 seems to have stopped that issue. Honestly the backlash is super overblown. Did they fuck it up? Yeah. But is it still playable and fun? Also yeah. I'm on the PS4 Pro. Don't know about the base systems.

I’m on the Series X and I’ve had two crashes. More than that, though, it’s a near constant barrage of tiny little shit that is just bothersome enough to make me want to wait. I had subtitles that got stuck on screen until I rebooted (despite having subtitles turned off in the first place—they randomly come up still). Lots of weird broken animations and AI still.

Also, partly I just don’t think the game looks very good, and I’m hoping future patches will address that, and the upgrade patch definitely should.

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Hacking is very very strong

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, December 20, 2020, 13:59 (1195 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I’m on the Series X and I’ve had two crashes. More than that, though, it’s a near constant barrage of tiny little shit that is just bothersome enough to make me want to wait. I had subtitles that got stuck on screen until I rebooted (despite having subtitles turned off in the first place—they randomly come up still). Lots of weird broken animations and AI still.

Also, partly I just don’t think the game looks very good, and I’m hoping future patches will address that, and the upgrade patch definitely should.

I'd say it looks both good and bad. I'm glad I've been playing this game. Lots to talk about. Everything from the incompatibility of RPGs and open world, to the idea of immersion and ludonarrative distance, to the hits and misses of theming, design flexibility and rigidness, technomisogyny and sexuality, and more.

Stay tuned.

Also I'm convinced photo mode is only there for creepin'

[image]

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Hacking is very very strong

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Sunday, December 20, 2020, 15:08 (1194 days ago) @ cheapLEY


Also, partly I just don’t think the game looks very good, and I’m hoping future patches will address that, and the upgrade patch definitely should.

In the old days when I played more games than Destiny, I would have been all over this. I'm glad I held off. The visuals are a big part of the appeal in this case. Besides, I haven't even played Witcher 3 yet. :)

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Hacking is very very strong

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, December 20, 2020, 16:32 (1194 days ago) @ Kermit


Also, partly I just don’t think the game looks very good, and I’m hoping future patches will address that, and the upgrade patch definitely should.


In the old days when I played more games than Destiny, I would have been all over this. I'm glad I held off. The visuals are a big part of the appeal in this case. Besides, I haven't even played Witcher 3 yet. :)

Well now you should wait to play The Witcher 3, too, as it’s also getting a next gen upgrade next year. I did launch it on the Series X, though. It’s 4K 60fps and looks amazing. But they said they’re going to add ray tracing and stuff. I guess I need to finish that 5th play through, and a good enhancement for Series X will almost certainly be enough to get me to do it.

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Hacking is very very strong

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, December 20, 2020, 20:06 (1194 days ago) @ Cody Miller

As far as patches go… I haven't had a crash in 3 days. 1.05 seems to have stopped that issue. Honestly the backlash is super overblown. Did they fuck it up? Yeah. But is it still playable and fun? Also yeah. I'm on the PS4 Pro. Don't know about the base systems.

I tried to play again tonight. It’s not overblown at all, this game is fucked. I can’t make any dialogue choices, the hacking menu just straight up disappeared so I can’t do that either. I was in the mission in the mall and all of the enemies spontaneously went on full alert for no reason. Etc, etc. It’s a complete mess.

Which is a shame, because of it worked properly, it would be absolutely incredible.

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Hacking is very very strong

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, December 20, 2020, 20:44 (1194 days ago) @ Cody Miller

How do you like Keanu in the game?

I think he’s great so far. He shows up way more often than I expected. Seems like damn near every quest he pops up and has something to say, and sometimes even just randomly as I’m walking around.

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Hacking is very very strong

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, December 20, 2020, 22:20 (1194 days ago) @ cheapLEY

How do you like Keanu in the game?

I think he’s great so far. He shows up way more often than I expected. Seems like damn near every quest he pops up and has something to say, and sometimes even just randomly as I’m walking around.

Leans a bit towards cringey edgelord at times…

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Hacking is very very strong

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, December 23, 2020, 17:14 (1191 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Leans a bit towards cringey edgelord at times…

You’re not wrong. I like the heart of the character, though (from what I’ve seen).

The more I see of him, the more I kind of wish he was just the player character and it was just his story. V is such a blank slate, I feel like I’d prefer a more realized main character, much like Geralt in The Witcher. As the player I can make choices, but they’re all still sort of filtered through his character. That is also true of V, I guess, but she’s just not very well realized as an actual character.

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