Halo Episode 1 (Spoilers)

Let's establish the scene:

A group of insurrectionists on a mining planet finish talking about how much the UNSC sucks, and how badass spartans are. Their mine is attacked by covenant elites, and it's a massacre. Rows of machine gun turrets are ineffective as the bullets merely bounce off the shields, and nobody can harm the elites. Suddenly a group of spartans shows up. The Master Chief rips off one of the gun turrets, fires, and suddenly the bullets are now splattering enemy brains despite being ineffective minutes before. They fight exactly the same way the insurrectionists fight. Same types of weapons. Similar tactics. And somehow now they wipe the floor with the Elites.

The emotion and logic here is just totally wrong… if the Spartans are indeed badass, their victory needs to be earned through what they do differently. It makes no sense that only the Spartan pistols make the Elite's heads explode, while the other's do nothing.

Why don't the Spartans show up and find their own guns ineffective too? Oh shit… now we have tension. As everyone is picked off, chance could have a stray plasma pistol overcharge drop the shields of a random Elite. The spartans can then gang up on one Elite, overpower it, and steal its weapon. Turn that weapon against the rest, and slowly turning the tide by arming others. They should use superior tactics or training unavailable to the insurrectionists. They should do things only they are strong enough to do to set traps or evade death.

The video game logic of it makes sense: Spartans show up and clean up. But the film logic does not.

If you have not played any Halo game before, you will be confused and not like this. If you have played only the games, you might like it but will still be confused. If you've read a few books and played the games, then you can follow what's happening. 343 still just refuses to allow Halo media to stand on its own. Nothing makes sense unless you know from Fall of reach that Halsey kidnaps kids and wipes their memories to turn them into Spartans. If you don't know this… nothing will make any sense at all because this is not established despite being a major thing to know to decipher character motivations.

In short, the MC touches a covenant artifact and sees… his childhood. But he doesn't know that yet. Meanwhile the UNSC flips out and wants to kill him, because they presumably don't want him to remember. But unless you've read the book… you have no idea why his childhood memories are so dangerous. And so none of the actions will make sense.

One Insurrectionist (a kid) survives, and the Spartans, cold as ice, leave her as they fuck off. Later the MC is ordered to kill her and he decides… not to? The turn is seemingly out of nowhere. There was no doubt in his decision to leave her to die before. They don't have much of a report (they speak briefly about him killing her mom however)… and yet he risks everything to keep her alive and go AWOL.

Her:"Why are you doing this?
MC: "I don't know".

If YOU don't know… how should WE?! This feels like an episode 4 or 5 turn… after we establish character histories and they have time to interact. Everything happens so rapidly.

The standout scene is when Quan talks to Miranda Keyes via hologram and totally shuts her down and makes her look like a fool. Olive Grey played it great, with a big fat smirk on her face thinking she had the upper hand, until she was told off. This is the type of complexity and conflict I think we could see more of later on (hopefully).

They show itself… well it manages to feel both cheap and high end at the same time. Not something I'd hold against it if it were engaging.

I don't think it's unredeemable… and it might not be fair to judge a whole show by one episode, but I think the rest will have to improve a lot and do some heavy lifting. The show is actually about something. They just need to bring that out.

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Is this releasing week by week, or is it just all available to watch now?

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Is this releasing week by week, or is it just all available to watch now?

Week by week.

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Nothing makes sense unless you know from Fall of reach that Halsey kidnaps kids and wipes their memories to turn them into Spartans. If you don't know this… nothing will make any sense at all because this is not established despite being a major thing to know to decipher character motivations.

Except Halsey never wiped anyone's memories in the original canon. It has happened in this timeline, however, and has yet to be established by the show.

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Nothing makes sense unless you know from Fall of reach that Halsey kidnaps kids and wipes their memories to turn them into Spartans. If you don't know this… nothing will make any sense at all because this is not established despite being a major thing to know to decipher character motivations.

Except Halsey never wiped anyone's memories in the original canon. It has happened in this timeline, however, and has yet to be established by the show.

So… even worse. I was only able to guess that because I had read Fall of Reach.

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Nothing makes sense unless you know from Fall of reach that Halsey kidnaps kids and wipes their memories to turn them into Spartans. If you don't know this… nothing will make any sense at all because this is not established despite being a major thing to know to decipher character motivations.

Except Halsey never wiped anyone's memories in the original canon. It has happened in this timeline, however, and has yet to be established by the show.

So… even worse. I was only able to guess that because I had read Fall of Reach.

If you somehow think that's "even worse," I question your media literacy, considering not explaining everything up front is an incredibly common and valid technique in storytelling. We're not meant to understand that fully yet. Duh.

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Nothing makes sense unless you know from Fall of reach that Halsey kidnaps kids and wipes their memories to turn them into Spartans. If you don't know this… nothing will make any sense at all because this is not established despite being a major thing to know to decipher character motivations.

Except Halsey never wiped anyone's memories in the original canon. It has happened in this timeline, however, and has yet to be established by the show.

So… even worse. I was only able to guess that because I had read Fall of Reach.

If you somehow think that's "even worse," I question your media literacy, considering not explaining everything up front is an incredibly common and valid technique in storytelling. We're not meant to understand that fully yet. Duh.

It’s about having the required information as an audience to understand character choices which are supposed to be important. Even in mysteries, where lack of information is almost a given for the genre, character motivations are always crystal clear in the good ones. The motivations may change in retrospect, but as you see it you have clear stakes, goals, and emotional continuity from characters.

Withholding this information, yet having said information be crucial for the motivations of characters is not good. Ask yourself what you get by teasing yet withholding. You get nothing but undercut the drama of the choices made in episode 1.

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Nothing makes sense unless you know from Fall of reach that Halsey kidnaps kids and wipes their memories to turn them into Spartans. If you don't know this… nothing will make any sense at all because this is not established despite being a major thing to know to decipher character motivations.

Except Halsey never wiped anyone's memories in the original canon. It has happened in this timeline, however, and has yet to be established by the show.

So… even worse. I was only able to guess that because I had read Fall of Reach.

If you somehow think that's "even worse," I question your media literacy, considering not explaining everything up front is an incredibly common and valid technique in storytelling. We're not meant to understand that fully yet. Duh.

It’s about having the required information as an audience to understand character choices which are supposed to be important. Even in mysteries, where lack of information is almost a given for the genre, character motivations are always crystal clear in the good ones. The motivations may change in retrospect, but as you see it you have clear stakes, goals, and emotional continuity from characters.

Withholding this information, yet having said information be crucial for the motivations of characters is not good. Ask yourself what you get by teasing yet withholding. You get nothing but undercut the drama of the choices made in episode 1.

I think far enough is implied regarding "memories" to sustain the drama. I haven't really seen anyone unfamiliar with the series be confused about that aspect.

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A group of insurrectionists on a mining planet finish talking about how much the UNSC sucks, and how badass spartans are. Their mine is attacked by covenant elites, and it's a massacre. Rows of machine gun turrets are ineffective as the bullets merely bounce off the shields, and nobody can harm the elites. Suddenly a group of spartans shows up. The Master Chief rips off one of the gun turrets, fires, and suddenly the bullets are now splattering enemy brains despite being ineffective minutes before. They fight exactly the same way the insurrectionists fight. Same types of weapons. Similar tactics. And somehow now they wipe the floor with the Elites.

The same literal machine gun was an unforgivable stretch, but one could rationale their brought-on weapons have a much bigger punch than AK-47s. Also, I'm almost positive the show runners wanted the naïve audience to consider the Elites were Spartans up until they breach the wall.

If you have not played any Halo game before, you will be confused and not like this. If you have played only the games, you might like it but will still be confused. If you've read a few books and played the games, then you can follow what's happening. 343 still just refuses to allow Halo media to stand on its own. Nothing makes sense unless you know from Fall of reach that Halsey kidnaps kids and wipes their memories to turn them into Spartans. If you don't know this… nothing will make any sense at all because this is not established despite being a major thing to know to decipher character motivations.

In short, the MC touches a covenant artifact and sees… his childhood. But he doesn't know that yet. Meanwhile the UNSC flips out and wants to kill him, because they presumably don't want him to remember. But unless you've read the book… you have no idea why his childhood memories are so dangerous. And so none of the actions will make sense.

You expect every show to tell you the entirety of everyone's motivation up front every time? I think ever since Lost no big show has ever done it.

One Insurrectionist (a kid) survives, and the Spartans, cold as ice, leave her as they fuck off. Later the MC is ordered to kill her and he decides… not to? The turn is seemingly out of nowhere. There was no doubt in his decision to leave her to die before. They don't have much of a report (they speak briefly about him killing her mom however)… and yet he risks everything to keep her alive and go AWOL.

I mean, he did have those flashbacks in between, so, you know, that's the point. (Pet peeve: rapport)

Her:"Why are you doing this?
MC: "I don't know".

If YOU don't know… how should WE?! This feels like an episode 4 or 5 turn… after we establish character histories and they have time to interact. Everything happens so rapidly.

Refer to the Lost point.

The standout scene is when Quan talks to Miranda Keyes via hologram and totally shuts her down and makes her look like a fool. Olive Grey played it great, with a big fat smirk on her face thinking she had the upper hand, until she was told off. This is the type of complexity and conflict I think we could see more of later on (hopefully).

Agreed.

They show itself… well it manages to feel both cheap and high end at the same time.

Also agreed. So weird.

I don't think it's unredeemable… and it might not be fair to judge a whole show by one episode, but I think the rest will have to improve a lot and do some heavy lifting. The show is actually about something. They just need to bring that out.

I liked it a lot, but I can see major potential to suck. Hoping for the best!

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You expect every show to tell you the entirety of everyone's motivation up front every time? I think ever since Lost no big show has ever done it.

Not necessarily. But when characters make decisions, we as the audience should understand why. If they are going to change, we should see them change. Otherwise, there really isn't much emotional continuity and they are essentially acting randomly.

You can hide whatever you want, but you always have to ask yourself if hiding is more cathartic than not hiding. For a Spartan who is seen as super by the book, to change and disobey orders… well there should be something leading up to so we understand why that change occurs. Then when it happens… catharsis.

It's not the wrong choice having him do what he did, but it felt too early and not earned yet.

Lost is also the poster child for the dangers of mystery box storytelling. Clear emotions and emotional stakes trump mystery box every time.

Also, I'm almost positive the show runners wanted the naïve audience to consider the Elites were Spartans up until they breach the wall.

I hadn't considered that, because the glimpses of them prior were very clearly elites and they showed the ship. But for someone who is not familiar with Halo, perhaps! But then they'd be lost elsewhere…

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It's not the wrong choice having him do what he did, but it felt too early and not earned yet.

I think we should've at least gotten a "show, don't tell" of him being a good ~~boy~~ soldier, so the mutiny actually had any weight. Especially considering how Halsey directly tells Silver team to ignore FLEETCOM orders and also go rogue themselves and they're totally fine with it.

I feel like they tried and got edited/produced short?

Lost is also the poster child for the dangers of mystery box storytelling.

You're not wrong there. That's why while thoroughly enjoying this episode, I'm still cautious about this show.

Clear emotions and emotional stakes trump mystery box every time.

Eh. If the mystery box keeps me entertained up until it opens, it was worth it for me. No need to actually pay off if kept me excited. Hard pass on frustration, though.

I hadn't considered that, because the glimpses of them prior were very clearly elites and they showed the ship. But for someone who is not familiar with Halo, perhaps! But then they'd be lost elsewhere…

Eh, do you really think there was much hanging on actually knowing some Halo in this episode? Sure, lots of fun references, but anything important happened that only fans got informed?

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Eh, do you really think there was much hanging on actually knowing some Halo in this episode? Sure, lots of fun references, but anything important happened that only fans got informed?

Well, I don't actually know for sure! I'll have to find someone I know who isn't familiar and who has seen the show and ask what they thought.

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I think we should've at least gotten a "show, don't tell" of him being a good ~~boy~~ soldier, so the mutiny actually had any weight. Especially considering how Halsey directly tells Silver team to ignore FLEETCOM orders and also go rogue themselves and they're totally fine with it.

I agree that the show could've used more time establishing the status quo for how Spartans behave, how they're viewed by the UNSC Chain of Command, and how their operations go. That's the biggest piece missing for me in terms of understanding the significance of the response to the Chief's behavior. It felt like overkill given how things are in the books and the show doesn't do much at all to frame that question at all in the first episode.

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It was fine. Mostly it was just boring.

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I've forgotten a lot of Halo lore at this point, so maybe that helped. I was always pretty flexible, though.. I thought the first game had a good story, but the real draw was the gameplay, the environments, and the supersoldier fantasy you got to step into. Halo 2 tried to do too much story-wise, and Halo 3 and ODST was when the storytelling began to hit on all cylinders. Reach is my favorite and part of what i liked was the tonal shift. Reach is the most mature Halo game, and it would've been even better if they'd had to space to deepen all the relationships within that squad. (The greatest irony to me is that I think a novelization of the Reach game would have been better than The Fall of Reach novel was. Canon, Schmanon.)

The TV show feels continuous with Reach. I was never confused. I thought we were told enough to know the people and care about them. The violence was real and brutal. I love that John is already unmasked and off the reservation, and that no one is completely trusted, save the daughter. I feel like they're taking the raw materials of the Halo universe and seeing what interesting things they can make of it, which is a reasonable approach in a new medium. Better than walking on eggshells to please the lore keepers.I'm hopeful for what comes next.

Cody, i agree with you about the gun problem. That struck me, too. This is one part where attention to the games would've helped, because it's not like figuring out when and how to use which gun isn't part of Halo, and as you illustrated, they could've come up with scenario that served the drama with ease. At the end of the day, though, and maybe this is just low expectations, I think it has the potential to be a good action drama.

Kermit

P.S. i left the 343 games out of the storytelling bit because they lost me, frankly. I haven't finished Halo infinity, which has the potential to bring e back.

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Episode one was a generic alien invasion show with an add-on Halo Skin slapped onto it.

Immediately, Spartans were cast as mindless blood thirsty murderers. Somehow, John was known as "the hope of humanity" even though, very little interaction with the Covenant had happened. Humans had dealt with the Covie for a few years, according to some show dialogue, and one elite referred to MC as "Demon"...but...I don't see how MC had already reached "BELIEVE" status.

Seems they are focusing the story on the two characters that haven never existed, but were instead created for this show. Why?

Halo Infinite was a big let down for me, this show may be the nail in the coffin for my honor towards the franchise. I just hope they don't ruin the character of Master Chief.

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Seems they are focusing the story on the two characters that haven never existed, but were instead created for this show. Why?

Because honestly, that is the best chance for a successful adaption from game to Film / TV. At least in my opinion.

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Frankly? I'd love to have a TV show I could show to my non-gaming friends and family and say "This is Halo. This is what's kept me enraptured for the better part of two decades."

And I can't do it. This show isn't it. It's just some cynical Expanse-style nonsense dressed up in a Halo skin. I'd have a hard time convincing someone who wasn't interested in Halo to watch it.

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Frankly? I'd love to have a TV show I could show to my non-gaming friends and family and say "This is Halo. This is what's kept me enraptured for the better part of two decades."

That's impossible.

Halo is Halo and it's what kept you engaged because it was a game. If you're trying to capture the exact feeling of the game by making eight one-hour cutscenes, then you've endeavored on a fool's task.

And I can't do it. This show isn't it.

NO game to TV / Film adaptation can. Even Sonic which in my opinion was great, was not like the game at all. And that's why it worked as a film.

This fact about game to movie adaptations is what I feel creators and fans need to understand. You can't say "make it feel like the game!" in a medium that removes 80% of the things that make up the game experience.

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[image]

And, naturally, it would be April 1st when this happens. lol. ;D

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It was fine. I felt like they overstuffed this first Episode, but a lot of pilots do that. Hopefully it can slow down and give the characters the space/time they need to things to logically happen.

Also, I kinda wish this was just animated or at least all the Spartans (in action) were CGI. It just felt like they were wearing (very nice looking) cardboard armor in the fight scene.

It needs a little bit more budget IMO. Or, just make it really nicely animated.

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Also, I kinda wish this was just animated or at least all the Spartans (in action) were CGI. It just felt like they were wearing (very nice looking) cardboard armor in the fight scene.

Oh yes, this too! Absolutely agree. It did not feel like 1200 pounds of metal.

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Also, I kinda wish this was just animated or at least all the Spartans (in action) were CGI. It just felt like they were wearing (very nice looking) cardboard armor in the fight scene.

Oh yes, this too! Absolutely agree. It did not feel like 1200 pounds of metal.

After seeing Episode 2, I think it’s the sound. When the MC is walking around, the lack of metal scraping, the soft footsteps… that’s really what contributes to this I think.

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Also, I kinda wish this was just animated or at least all the Spartans (in action) were CGI. It just felt like they were wearing (very nice looking) cardboard armor in the fight scene.

Oh yes, this too! Absolutely agree. It did not feel like 1200 pounds of metal.

After seeing Episode 2, I think it’s the sound. When the MC is walking around, the lack of metal scraping, the soft footsteps… that’s really what contributes to this I think.

While the lack of heavy sfx is going to play a factor, am I wrong for recalling that Spartans had an uncanny ability to stay silent despite their armor?

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The whole time I was watching the series premiere, all I kept thinking was, “I really should’ve read the books.” I mean, I have a general idea about the Innies and Covenant invasion, and I recognized the sound effects that were brought in from the games to help immerse the player—I mean viewer… but 98% of it flew right over my head. If this was set in 2552, then it was also set during the events of Halo Reach/One. Now, I know a year is a long time, but that seems strange/nonsensical to me. And I know I feel real stupid saying this, but I’ll thought JACOB was Miranda’s father. I honestly don’t remember if Halsey had blonde hair or not…but she certainly didn’t have a British accent. And a Phantom in 2552? 0.o

Anyway, I at least thought the Elites looked great, since that was pretty much all I was waiting for. A little more shield flare would’ve been nice, but it’s still cool looking to me. Reminds me of Forward Unto Dawn.

Although, revealing Chief’s face off the bat? While it instantly made me think of the ‘four guys’ meme—also made me think of that ridiculous quote from Arrested Development. (I’m out of town, so I can’t do the whole timecode thing, but I’m hoping that you guys will know which Tobias quote I’m talking about.)

But hey, we’ll see what happens next week!

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And I know I feel real stupid saying this, but I’ll thought JACOB was Miranda’s father.

He was and still is?

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Okay good, I’m not crazy….so who was the tall black guy speaking with Miranda in the medbay? They clearly showed his ‘Keyes’ name badge and she kept calling him Dad; and they both acknowledged Halsey as her mother. I was thrown for a loop.

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That was him.

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Wh—

I…I don’t…..

This is……

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Wh—

I…I don’t…..

This is……

Clown world.

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I’m not even saying it’s objectively bad, you can decide yourself… but, I find the choice to go with a syfy/CW style show with a completely different tone and story than the games just baffling. I feel like they should’ve been more confident in what they had.
— EckhartsLadder (@EckhartsLadder) March 31, 2022

The answer is because this is your best chance at a good adaptation. Sticking to the game is what makes all these adaptations suck… and likely why none of those scripts got made.

I saw promise here in episode 2. It's too bad more people aren't having an open mind. It's FAR from perfect, but at least this show appears it has somewhere to go.

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That’s intriguing to hear, at least.

I still think I’d prefer a show disconnected from Master Chief, but I understand why they think he’s a necessary anchor.

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That’s intriguing to hear, at least.

I still think I’d prefer a show disconnected from Master Chief, but I understand why they think he’s a necessary anchor.

His personality is different enough, and his helmet is off long enough, that it honestly feels like a different character. So I guess you get what you want, sorta? Lol

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And it has nothing to do with the fact that the Chief is (Or is not) a main character. I'm still working my way through the second episode, but I can't think of a single choice that this series has made right.

This is just awful. If the show miraculously improves during the second half of the season, it'll be a shame, because I doubt I'll make it that far.

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I thought episode 2 was much better (or at least more interesting). I don’t have anything insightful to say, but I enjoyed it and an at least interested in seeing where it goes.

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Finally got around to watching it.

I think the real tragedy of Madrigal was their lack of a good barber.

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How do you have a location run by a disillusioned former soldier selling it as a libertarian utopia free from control of a hyper-militarized overbearing centralized government, and not have one single Firefly easter egg in the whole episode?

What a waste.

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How do you have a location run by a disillusioned former soldier selling it as a libertarian utopia free from control of a hyper-militarized overbearing centralized government, and not have one single Firefly easter egg in the whole episode?

What a waste.

Wow wtf. Definitely not watching.

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How do you have a location run by a disillusioned former soldier selling it as a libertarian utopia free from control of a hyper-militarized overbearing centralized government, and not have one single Firefly easter egg in the whole episode?

What a waste.

Wow wtf. Definitely not watching.

[image]

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I rewatched Forward Unto Dawn tonight. I think it’s actually really good. Obviously much smaller scale, but I think they made smart decisions for filming (like setting it at night, obviously).

I find myself wishing the new series had taken a similar track. Hiding iffy CGI is much harder when you set your scene in the midday sun in the middle of the desert. If you’re going to try to show off like that, you better be goddamn sure you nailed it. That’s what worries me—it seems like they just didn’t completely make smart decisions (or were perhaps overconfident in their budget and abilities to actually pull it off). The second episode did pull it off much better, in my opinion. The dusty, grimy interiors of the Tangled Shore were plenty convincing, but that’s helped by not having a bunch of Elites disintegrating people in any of the shots. I’ll be curious to see how they handle the Covenant moving forward. Even with Hollywood budget and CG, I’m not sure the Covenant could be convincingly realized in the same way that Star Wars aliens are. I’d love to be proven wrong, though.

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Don’t think I saw this posted.

For those of us who don’t get Paramount Plus (like me) they have put the first episode out on YouTube. Haven’t yet watched it but should soon.

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So… I feel like it's actually starting to work as TV now!

There's some things I didn't like, such as the weird tone of what is actually a pretty horrific evil when Halsey kills the clone and harvests the brain data. Cortana also feels a bit too similar to the real life digital assistant to be a coincidence…

But, I feel like now the conflicts and character motivations are evolving in a clear, and more importantly believable and organic way. Some stuff was exposition heavy, but this episode was miles better than the first two.

Speaking of the recent talk of the Halo 4 ending here, notice how they made the right choice with Makee. She didn't say out loud what she was thinking. They just cut to her book. And we know! We get it! This is storytelling.

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It’s the first episode where I wished I could have immediately started the next one.

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I hated this episode so much. The argument of "video game adaptations fail because they adapt the game" is totally valid...when the adaptations we've been given (in large majority) have terrible lore!

Halo has such amazing and deep story aspects that could be touched on!! But instead, we are leading this episode off with an adult beating a child to death.

While Halsey is probably depicted accurately in regard to her being a scientific sociopath, her use of manipulation on MC was gross. I don't see the game version of Halsey ever behaving that way towards him.

In episode 1, MC took his helmet off for most of the episode.
In episode 2, MC took his armor off for most of the episode.
In episode 3, MC took his clothes off. Then basically put on the futurist version of jeans and a t-shirt. THEY PUT MASTER CHIEF...IN JEANS AND A T-SHIRT!

I'll still say that, related to nothing, it's a good show. Im intrigued by what's going on...but come on...this isn't Halo. What a waste of an IP. What a waste of so much already developed lore that is amazing.

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THEY PUT MASTER CHIEF...IN JEANS AND A T-SHIRT!

Honestly, good.

The whole point is that he’s a person. He’s not just the suit. He’s not a robot. I’m glad the show is exploring that immediately, instead of taking fifteen years to get there like the games did.

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THEY PUT MASTER CHIEF...IN JEANS AND A T-SHIRT!

Honestly, good.

The whole point is that he’s a person. He’s not just the suit. He’s not a robot. I’m glad the show is exploring that immediately, instead of taking fifteen years to get there like the games did.

Well, thanks to this show, that's all Master Chief is now. Just another person.
I'm also super sour because I've been working on a Master Chief cosplay for over a year and it's so close to being done. And if this show turns MC into a total pud, I'm going to lose it!

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Well, thanks to this show, that's all Master Chief is now. Just another person.

That’s all he’s ever been.

Also, isn’t the show going to pretty great lengths to show that he’s special somehow? He’s the only one who can interact with the artifact, other than the Covenant lady.

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Well, thanks to this show, that's all Master Chief is now. Just another person.
I'm also super sour because I've been working on a Master Chief cosplay for over a year and it's so close to being done. And if this show turns MC into a total pud, I'm going to lose it!

Just get naked, and put a fake knife above your buttcrack. Way easier.

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THEY PUT MASTER CHIEF...IN JEANS AND A T-SHIRT!

Honestly, good.

The whole point is that he’s a person. He’s not just the suit. He’s not a robot. I’m glad the show is exploring that immediately, instead of taking fifteen years to get there like the games did.

Well, thanks to this show, that's all Master Chief is now. Just another person.

If you allow me to pick and choose where the emphasis of your statement was, I agree with the criticism here. I'm loving this show, but I already have in my mind how much of a robot he is supposed to be understood as. The show has given us very very little exposition on that.

We got, what? Him ignoring the girl both right after the massacre and then bumping her head, then a quick flashback where we are supposed to infer that's his best friend he is betraying over regulations?

As a Halo fan, I'm getting a lot out of this 'Chief reborn' scenes, but I can't see it hitting remotely the same to fresh eyes.

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I'll still say that, related to nothing, it's a good show. Im intrigued by what's going on...but come on...this isn't Halo. What a waste of an IP. What a waste of so much already developed lore that is amazing.

I'll say it again: lore is poison to video game adaptations. You can absorb lore in games in a way that doesn't derail the experience. You cannot do this in movies. You need to incorporate it directly into your narrative. This is why Mortal Kombat 2021 was so dismal. They cared too much about the lore and not enough about a compelling story.

This adaptation is already of higher quality than what I was expecting. And it is, in my opinion, precisely because they are taking the exact steps you seem to dislike. The show you are wishing for could not ever possibly be good. I realize your brain wants it. But making it so and making that work in a TV show is insurmountable. This is why so many video game adaptations do not work. We've been through this so many times.

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I'll still say that, related to nothing, it's a good show. Im intrigued by what's going on...but come on...this isn't Halo. What a waste of an IP. What a waste of so much already developed lore that is amazing.

I'll say it again: lore is poison to video game adaptations. You can absorb lore in games in a way that doesn't derail the experience. You cannot do this in movies. You need to incorporate it directly into your narrative. This is why Mortal Kombat 2021 was so dismal. They cared too much about the lore and not enough about a compelling story.

This adaptation is already of higher quality than what I was expecting. And it is, in my opinion, precisely because they are taking the exact steps you seem to dislike. The show you are wishing for could not ever possibly be good. I realize your brain wants it. But making it so and making that work in a TV show is insurmountable. This is why so many video game adaptations do not work. We've been through this so many times.

Fwiw, there is enough room for us both compromise and say that it is a good show, bit its not a halo show

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Fwiw, there is enough room for us both compromise and say that it is a good show, bit its not a halo show

What is a "Halo" show?

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Fwiw, there is enough room for us both compromise and say that it is a good show, bit its not a halo show

What is a "Halo" show?

Forward Unto Dawn
Fall of Reach
Legends animated shorts

Are all really good “Halo” shows in my opinion

Even the Halo 3 Believe ad campaign and Landfall are good Halo shows

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Fwiw, there is enough room for us both compromise and say that it is a good show, bit its not a halo show

What is a "Halo" show?

Forward Unto Dawn
Fall of Reach
Legends animated shorts

Are all really good “Halo” shows in my opinion

Even the Halo 3 Believe ad campaign and Landfall are good Halo shows

I mean, what characteristic makes some thing a "Halo" show? Why are those "Halo" shows, but not this?

97% of the stuff in the Sonic SatAm show wasn't in the game, and the tone was extremely different, and yet I don't recall anyone saying it wasn't a "Sonic" show…

[image]

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I genuinely don’t understand the general fan reaction. I don’t think there’s necessarily anything wrong with doing a straight adaptation, although I recognize it would probably be much more difficult to pull off successfully. But I don’t get the hate for them establishing their own canon. Comic books have been doing this since the beginning, and I never see anyone bitching about it.

Halo is a cool universe. I’m happy to see them play in it without being beholden to specifics from a long series of previous decisions. Especially when I do feel like the show captures the things I like about Halo. I also don’t really see the characterization of the Chief being that different from anything we’ve seen before—they just skipped all the boring shit where he’s just a weapon the UNSC points at whatever they want dead.

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I'm self aware enough to admit that most of my negativity is because this show doesn't taste like the 'Member Berries I'm used to eating.

When I started dating my wife, she had never heard of Halo. Then she stayed up late with me one night when I started the Halo Reach campaign. She was interested in the story, started asking questions. She read the Fall of Reach book, then insisted I play through all the games so she could watch. She was interested in Halo as an entire universe. As a story being told. There is so much good stuff to build from...and the makers of this show basically said "nah, we're good. We'll write our own thing."

This is a Halo show about as much as 300 is a documentary on the Battle of Thermopylae. The names are the same....that's about it.

I'm just butthurt that they turned MC into a mindless, thoughtless, wool over his eyes military asset being manipulated by Halsey.

Whereas in the game, he knew what had to be done and even commanding officers let him do his thing.

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I'm just butthurt that they turned MC into a mindless, thoughtless, wool over his eyes military asset being manipulated by Halsey.
Whereas in the game, he knew what had to be done and even commanding officers let him do his thing.

I see no difference in how the show is handling him, honestly. He might as well have come straight out of Fall of Reach. I legitimately don’t see any evidence in the show that he’s mindless or thoughtless. One of the first things we see him do is refuse a given order.

In previous Halo canon (at this point in the timeline, comparatively) he was only ever a good soldier that solved the problems the UNSC or Halsey pointed him at. He literally never had a will or desire his superiors didn’t tell him to have.

I don’t know what Halo stories you’re reading or experiencing, but they’re not the same ones I have apparently.

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Whereas in the game, he knew what had to be done and even commanding officers let him do his thing.

Perhaps that's where this is heading?! This is set before even Fall of Reach.

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Whereas in the game, he knew what had to be done and even commanding officers let him do his thing.

Perhaps that's where this is heading?! This is set before even Fall of Reach.

Ya know what? You're right. I've actually never considered this factor and this point has kind of changed my entire point of view of the series so far.

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Whereas in the game, he knew what had to be done and even commanding officers let him do his thing.

Perhaps that's where this is heading?! This is set before even Fall of Reach.

Ya know what? You're right. I've actually never considered this factor and this point has kind of changed my entire point of view of the series so far.

[image]

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In episode 3, MC took his clothes off. Then basically put on the futurist version of jeans and a t-shirt. THEY PUT MASTER CHIEF...IN JEANS AND A T-SHIRT!

Oh man you'd hate what Blade Runner 2049 did to Deckard…

[image]

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In episode 3, MC took his clothes off. Then basically put on the futurist version of jeans and a t-shirt. THEY PUT MASTER CHIEF...IN JEANS AND A T-SHIRT!

Oh man you'd hate what Blade Runner 2049 did to Deckard…

heh, I've never seen either of those movies.

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At first I figured it was the Mandela effect, but looking at it in D1, the damn thing is like...exact. ?

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I'm enjoying the parallel storylines as we bring other characters into the mix such as Kai. A lot of people have been saying this was 'slow', but it's honestly not. There's not much action, but they are accomplishing a lot with each of the scenes. It's… kind of getting good guys!

And it was definitely the last word. He got the one good hip fire in.

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I'm enjoying the parallel storylines as we bring other characters into the mix such as Kai. A lot of people have been saying this was 'slow', but it's honestly not. There's not much action, but they are accomplishing a lot with each of the scenes. It's… kind of getting good guys!

This is honestly exactly what I wanted from a Halo show. Lots of the comments in the reddit thread are just begging to see Master Chief fight Covenant, and I honestly think they’re wrong for wanting that. That is not the meat of Halo for me, and it’s like the hardest thing they could attempt to do and make look good. The politics of Halsey and the Spartans and the UNSC is exactly the angle they should be pursuing, and I think they’re doing it pretty well, even if I think some of it is less subtle than it could be.

And it was definitely the last word. He got the one good hip fire in.

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Yeah, look at the scene where Miranda and Kai talk about Halsey. There's SO much there about Halsey and how she treats her actual children… it's said but unsaid.

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Yeah, look at the scene where Miranda and Kai talk about Halsey. There's SO much there about Halsey and how she treats her actual children… it's said but unsaid.

Yeah, those two are totally gonna hook up.

But hey! I'm back in! Seeing this episode from a new POV because of this thread, Cody and Cheap have turned me. I'm still bored with the Kwan story but...let's see how it pans out. It worked well for Mando and Grogu, right?

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I like the secondary story, but I think that’s mostly for the “Soren finds something worth fighting for” angle I hope they’re doing.

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I like the secondary story, but I think that’s mostly for the “Soren finds something worth fighting for” angle I hope they’re doing.

I'd imagine so. But I'm wondering how that'll play out. For in some sense, the people are justified in submitting to the UNSC given the Covenant threat. Halo has always, in the background, had that thread of unity being Humanity's salvation. There's long been this inherent "ends justify the means" theme throughout the series. It's why Ben was locked up at the end of Hunt the Truth.

However, the show seems much less ambiguous in the treatment of the UNSC. They are flat out monsters at this point in time. I wonder where this will go.

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Yeah, I’m genuinely curious. Halsey was always monstrous in the canon, but her work with the Spartans undoubtedly is directly responsible for saving the galaxy. They’re really hammering on her with the “she made us kill our puppies” angle (and the whole kidnapping children thing, obviously).

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Yeah, I’m genuinely curious. Halsey was always monstrous in the canon, but her work with the Spartans undoubtedly is directly responsible for saving the galaxy. They’re really hammering on her with the “she made us kill our puppies” angle (and the whole kidnapping children thing, obviously).

And not only that, but she was A BAD MOM!!!!!

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However, the show seems much less ambiguous in the treatment of the UNSC. They are flat out monsters at this point in time. I wonder where this will go.

The halo universe has always had bad people mixed into the fold of humanity, but if this was the group of humans I was supposed to fight alongside in the games, I don't think I'd be super motivated to save them. The UNSC probably should die in this iteration. On the other hand, it makes for a fascinating show.

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However, the show seems much less ambiguous in the treatment of the UNSC. They are flat out monsters at this point in time. I wonder where this will go.

The halo universe has always had bad people mixed into the fold of humanity, but if this was the group of humans I was supposed to fight alongside in the games, I don't think I'd be super motivated to save them. The UNSC probably should die in this iteration. On the other hand, it makes for a fascinating show.

The only reason I can play the Master Chief in Halo games is because (at least during the moments we play as him) he has the ability to make the right calls (and "John has always known the right thing to do"). It removes a lot of moral ambiguity, and the people around him support him and thus are presumably "putting their trust in the right place."

The truth is that the entire time I've been playing Halo, though the circumstances I just pointed out make it easy, I do have to compartmentalize my knowledge of just how atrocious the UNSC actually is. The Insurrectionists' terrorism isn't something I condone but they were absolutely in the right. The Spartans were created to stop a rebellion that the UNSC deserved.

They always sucked.

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Yeah, look at the scene where Miranda and Kai talk about Halsey. There's SO much there about Halsey and how she treats her actual children… it's said but unsaid.

Yeah, those two are totally gonna hook up.

But hey! I'm back in! Seeing this episode from a new POV because of this thread, Cody and Cheap have turned me. I'm still bored with the Kwan story but...let's see how it pans out. It worked well for Mando and Grogu, right?

The whole Soren/Kwan storyline adds a Firefly vibe to the show, and for that I can't criticize it. The show is grittier and darker than Halo the game, and I like it. People have real relationships in this show, and not only that, people have relationships with people who die.

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I hope this one shuts up the people who thought the show was boring.

Now, I can kind of see what they were going for in Episode 1 with the notion of the children being kidnapped. But I still stand behind my initial feeling that it was not handled properly… The way all the characters reacted was too incongruous with what the audience should know. If anything, we should have seen Halsey internally nervous but trying to maintain a composure, perhaps using a bit of subterfuge to convince the UNSC to bring the Chief back (ordering him to kill Kwan still doesn't make too much sense). Instead, both Halsey and everyone else were pretty much at Defcon 1. That doesn't really jive with this episode, where Halsey is calculating trying to hide the risk from Parangosky. And it definitely doesn't jive with the idea of this being a reveal… their response in Episode 1 left no room for doubt to the audience that things were amiss.

Anyway, see how things really get cooking when we have a bunch of characters, we know what each of them wants, and those wants are all at odds? Yeah. Every scene was full of conflict and great. The episode was over before I even knew it. Totally engrossed. And we are loaded up with dramatic irony regarding Jacob Keyes.

It's great that the big battle was good narratively, but some of it felt a bit to video gamey to me. Especially the way the covenant look and move. The CG is kind of consistently weak here, and even the covenant ships don't look great, and we've been able to make inanimate CG objects look great for years now. But, I get the reality of time and budgets. The bottom line, is that unlike the action in episode 1, this one had tension, stakes, and meaningful choices. So it did what it needed to from a narrative perspective.

Cool shit.

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The year is 2022. A television adaptation of the video game Halo is released. Cody Miller thinks it is good.

What the hell even is this timeline?

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The year is 2022. A television adaptation of the video game Halo is released. Cody Miller thinks it is good.

What the hell even is this timeline?

A timeline where you get to see a needler explode a dude on a streaming service!

I really hope when the flood show up the show doesn't jump the shark.

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The year is 2022. A television adaptation of the video game Halo is released. Cody Miller thinks it is good.

What the hell even is this timeline?

A timeline where you get to see a needler explode a dude on a streaming service!

I really hope when the flood show up the show doesn't jump the shark.

Calling it now:

-The flood are not going to be in the TV show timeline.

-The bigger bad will be whatever the "Endless" are from Infinite.

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-The bigger bad will be whatever the "Endless" are from Infinite.

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I really hope when the flood show up the show doesn't jump the shark.

Bro!! Spoiler Alert!!

And the flood HAVE to be in the show eventually. They are the reason for the Halos to exist.

But yeah, this episode was what I've been waiting for. Seeing Spartans running along side a Warthog at speed. Master Chief being a human missile. All that stuff. Ya'll saw it, I don't need to recount each beat.

The part my wife and I questioned/discussed after the episode were the hormone pellets.
Kai took hers out and it broke her. MC took his out and he turned into a rage monster. So is this John-117 going to be just a monster?

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The part my wife and I questioned/discussed after the episode were the hormone pellets.
Kai took hers out and it broke her. MC took his out and he turned into a rage monster. So is this John-117 going to be just a monster?

I doubt it. That’s just going to be part of his (and maybe the others’) journey. Learning to be human.

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The year is 2022. A television adaptation of the video game Halo is released. Cody Miller thinks it is good.

What the hell even is this timeline?

Cody was right (finally). Is the "isnotcanon.net" domain for sale now?

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Hey unrelated but do you think it would be worth it to get the Halo cutscenes in Ultrawide 4K/120?

I noticed in the The Armory scene on the opening shot of Earth, the ultrawide version reveals that the picture of Earth they used is cut off beyond where the camera normally sees.

There are likely many similar interesting things just out of sight.

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Hey unrelated but do you think it would be worth it to get the Halo cutscenes in Ultrawide 4K/120?

I noticed in the The Armory scene on the opening shot of Earth, the ultrawide version reveals that the picture of Earth they used is cut off beyond where the camera normally sees.

There are likely many similar interesting things just out of sight.

Ask Claude. It's not my cutscene database :-p

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Hey unrelated but do you think it would be worth it to get the Halo cutscenes in Ultrawide 4K/120?

I noticed in the The Armory scene on the opening shot of Earth, the ultrawide version reveals that the picture of Earth they used is cut off beyond where the camera normally sees.

There are likely many similar interesting things just out of sight.

Ask Claude. It's not my cutscene database :-p

lol - ask Cody, he's the one with the ability to record. :)

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Hey unrelated but do you think it would be worth it to get the Halo cutscenes in Ultrawide 4K/120?

I noticed in the The Armory scene on the opening shot of Earth, the ultrawide version reveals that the picture of Earth they used is cut off beyond where the camera normally sees.

There are likely many similar interesting things just out of sight.

Ask Claude. It's not my cutscene database :-p

lol - ask Cody, he's the one with the ability to record. :)

Getting mixed messages here so I'm just going to assume this will be top priority in the near future. Cheers.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjd8xs3OQvk

H3 cutscenes at max FOV. Pretty cool!

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Ugh, those were actually making me squeamish. Super-wide angles work in a few contexts, but for the most part remind me of ill-conceived experiments from 1960s.

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Ugh, those were actually making me squeamish. Super-wide angles work in a few contexts, but for the most part remind me of ill-conceived experiments from 1960s.

Oh don't get me wrong, it's not meant to look good by any means. Just provide a peak behind the curtain, so to speak. Just look at the memorial scene, nobody showed up!

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Ugh, those were actually making me squeamish. Super-wide angles work in a few contexts, but for the most part remind me of ill-conceived experiments from 1960s.

Yeah, yeah, we've heard about your ill-conceived experimentation in the '60s.

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Ugh, those were actually making me squeamish. Super-wide angles work in a few contexts, but for the most part remind me of ill-conceived experiments from 1960s.

Yeah, yeah, we've heard about your ill-conceived experimentation in the '60s.

I meant to say experiments in cinema. My experiments in the '60s involved Hot Wheels, GI Joes, and gravity.

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I meant to say experiments in cinema. My experiments in the '60s involved Hot Wheels, GI Joes, and gravity.

Damn that's pretty hardcore.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjd8xs3OQvk

H3 cutscenes at max FOV. Pretty cool!

Why aren't those being rendered in a wider raster than 16:9? They kind of look like ass. When you said ultra-wide I thought you meant 21:9. I understand the novelty value of being able to peek underneath the hood so to speak, but the result is not pleasing aesthetically.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjd8xs3OQvk

H3 cutscenes at max FOV. Pretty cool!

Why aren't those being rendered in a wider raster than 16:9? They kind of look like ass. When you said ultra-wide I thought you meant 21:9. I understand the novelty value of being able to peek behind the hood so to speak, but the result is not pleasing aesthetically.

No no, 21:9 is what I meant. This is just a similar thing I happened upon. It's modded to have an FOV way above the normal limit. Not meant to look good, just a silly mod.

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[image]

Jeff Nosanov pointed this out on the Marathon Story page. To be fair, Traxus industries is a thing in the later Halo games, so it might be a reference to a reference.

(Traxus was an AI that went rampant, and was disassembled / rebooted into Durandal.)

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Jeff Nosanov pointed this out on the Marathon Story page. To be fair, Traxus industries is a thing in the later Halo games, so it might be a reference to a reference.

I guess Halo 3 is later. I'd say Traxus Heavy Industries is the canonical source of this appearence.

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Traxus is on the dirtbike too, that Kwan and Soren had.

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https://twitter.com/Plasmaposting/status/1517212382023634945?s=20&t=VuI3IH6ItZbMCiwzSPD1Hw

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"Parents mourn their mutant children."

This backstory has been a part of Halo since Fall of Reach. It's been present, and referenced many times. But this is the first time I actually FELT it. Where I emotionally, rather than intellectually, understood the cost and pain of this course of action. That's what this show is bringing.

They might as well just list the eyes in the credits. The way just the eyes alone expressed so many of the feeling of the characters, unsaid. Sadness, anger, confusion, longing, betrayal, fear, happiness. This is what is really setting the storytelling apart from typical video game fare (and the one area Naughty Dog and Square pretty much has a monopoly on.) These actors are giving 100%, even in the small moments.

Still, as good as it is I'm not in love with the bare clean production design of things like the barracks and the labs. Officials stand in an empty room, with holograms in the middle as they converse. That doesn't feel right. Halsey's lab has tons of open space, rather than being full of equipment. It doesn't have that 'lived in' quality, and ends up just reminding me it's a set.

I like how they reference the number dead from the previous battle and don't just forget about it. It makes it feel like these things actually matter to the characters, and therefore us.

Even so, this is good TV. The Halo reddit will hate it of course because MC is emotional. If I had any complaint, it was that the MC faced no repercussions after almost killing Halsey. I get what's happening, but it was never mentioned again.

P.S. With all these real video game adaptations coming about, my fake video game movie trailers don't make much sense anymore do they?

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This show quickly turned from being merely neat to see the Halo things on TV to a legitimately great show.

Like you, my main complaint really just boils down to production issues. As you mentioned, the sets feel so barren. I get it’s the future, but . . . I doubt pens and paper stopped existing. It just feels weird and not believable—like how are these people doing their jobs?

Some of the props are also sort of bad in a way that I can’t see a legitimate excuse for. The keystone looks terrible in some of the close-ups, like it was a mediocre resolution 3D print that they didn’t bother to even hit with some sandpaper and they just called it good and rattle-canned it silver.

That stuff is disappointing but ultimately forgivable because what’s actually happening and they way the story is being told is so utterly compelling.

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This show quickly turned from being merely neat to see the Halo things on TV to a legitimately great show.

Like you, my main complaint really just boils down to production issues. As you mentioned, the sets feel so barren. I get it’s the future, but . . . I doubt pens and paper stopped existing. It just feels weird and not believable—like how are these people doing their jobs?

Some of the props are also sort of bad in a way that I can’t see a legitimate excuse for. The keystone looks terrible in some of the close-ups, like it was a mediocre resolution 3D print that they didn’t bother to even hit with some sandpaper and they just called it good and rattle-canned it silver.

That stuff is disappointing but ultimately forgivable because what’s actually happening and they way the story is being told is so utterly compelling.

Sheesh, you think Microsoft just has extra money laying around for bondo and crack fill primer!!?? That stuff is almost $10 per can!

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Sheesh, you think Microsoft just has extra money laying around for bondo and crack fill primer!!?? That stuff is almost $10 per can!

They spent it all buying Activision Blizzard and Bethesda.

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For anyone who enjoys CinemaSins, they just reviewed the first episode. I'm gonna go watch it now, discuss!

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A bit of a setback if you ask me.

The inclusion of the mystics, the tease of the Ha family destiny, it's all too much. Why does Kwan's journey have to be about something preordained and prophesied? Can't it just be, you know, because she wants to? Because the ideal of freedom is important to her? We get yet another hero special because of birthright. Not happy about this.

Vinsher was kind of over the top in a bad way. Cartoonishly evil, with a big puffy coat reminiscent of the campy Bane from Dark Knight Rises, putting a cigar in his mouth not to light, but just for the look. Kwan's victory over him also seemed… too easy? I guess she didn't have to win the hearts and minds of the people after all. Also what happens now? With him removed, what does it mean for Madrigal?

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Can't it just be, you know, because she wants to? Because the ideal of freedom is important to her? We get yet another hero special because of birthright. Not happy about this.

This is my biggest complaint about so many stories these days. Things actually feel less special when they’ve been preordained. At that point you’re just a cog in a cosmic wheel. The original matrix is the only story that handled it well in my memory. Sure there was an oracle, but the advice they gave was ambiguous enough that multiple levels of interpretation could be applied. Neo’s becoming of The One actually happened against his best understanding so it felt earned rather than bestowed. Ehh, this and the Chief’s special forerunner magic bug me. I liked it better when all humans shared this trait. I guess Miranda won’t get killed by Truth in this version.

That being said, I’m still interested in what happens next.

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Can't it just be, you know, because she wants to? Because the ideal of freedom is important to her? We get yet another hero special because of birthright. Not happy about this.

This is my biggest complaint about so many stories these days. Things actually feel less special when they’ve been preordained. At that point you’re just a cog in a cosmic wheel. The original matrix is the only story that handled it well in my memory. Sure there was an oracle, but the advice they gave was ambiguous enough that multiple levels of interpretation could be applied. Neo’s becoming of The One actually happened against his best understanding so it felt earned rather than bestowed. Ehh, this and the Chief’s special forerunner magic bug me. I liked it better when all humans shared this trait. I guess Miranda won’t get killed by Truth in this version.

Yeah, it’s the divine right of kings recycled.

Not my favorite episode, except admiring the guts to make the show it’s own thing.

That being said, I’m still interested in what happens next.

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They had to do something to make her story worth telling. In a universe of constant insurrection war, why is her story so special?

I'm starting to see her story as more of a story about the planet Madrigal. The artifact was there, there's an apparent portal there, presumably to a Halo. Has the term "Reclaimer" been used in this series yet? From what I remember in the games, all humans were Reclaimers, right? Maybe in the show, Reclaimers are kind of like Jedi, in that, many people have the gift, only some realize it and only the most important get a show made about them :P

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They had to do something to make her story worth telling. In a universe of constant insurrection war, why is her story so special?

I'm starting to see her story as more of a story about the planet Madrigal. The artifact was there, there's an apparent portal there, presumably to a Halo. Has the term "Reclaimer" been used in this series yet? From what I remember in the games, all humans were Reclaimers, right? Maybe in the show, Reclaimers are kind of like Jedi, in that, many people have the gift, only some realize it and only the most important get a show made about them :P

Maybe she's special because of her heroic character and not because of some genetic lottery? Don't me get started on Lucas's colossal eff up. Star Wars was cool when it was just called Star Wars and mastering the Force was the result of commitment and effort, not freaking midichlorians.

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I get a text from Chris101b this morning.

He hasn't started the show, since he wants to just binge it. "Hey, have you seen today's episode yet?"

"No, why?"

"People are posting screenshots from it, and everyone is calling it pure garbage. They are saying it's embarrassing."

After watching the episode, I am genuinely cannot possibly fathom how anyone could take that position. Like, I'm stunned. Here we have an episode where the story moves, the drama is intense, you have a bunch of different character plot threads coming together in an explosion (even Makee's marine guard gets a character arc!), and it has the best action so far in the series…

AND PEOPLE THINK ITS AN EMBARRASSMENT?!!!!

No words.

Like, after a rough last episode this show bursts around the final turn firing on all cylinders. In addition to the above we get some actual human joy when Kai is lifting the warthog, which is just so refreshing.

Like, if you hated it please reply. I won't argue or mock you or anything… I literally just want to comprehend.

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…But they had to have known Master Chief having sex was going to blow up. I’m OK with it in concept, John is exploring new emotions and feelings, but it didn’t feel earned. Kai being the character chief gets experimental with would have been way more interesting and believable.

All the stuff with Cortana and Kai was really good though.

I’m waiting for the finale for my “here’s how I would have done it” post. So let’s check back next week! lol

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I’m waiting for the finale for my “here’s how I would have done it” post. So let’s check back next week! lol

There's TWO more episodes to go my friend.

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I’m waiting for the finale for my “here’s how I would have done it” post. So let’s check back next week! lol

There's TWO more episodes to go my friend.

I’m only seeing one more listed on IMDB and Wikipedia.

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I’m waiting for the finale for my “here’s how I would have done it” post. So let’s check back next week! lol

There's TWO more episodes to go my friend.

I’m only seeing one more listed on IMDB and Wikipedia.

I think you’re right. It originally had a 10 episode order, but that appears to have been changed.

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Not a fan cramming the entirety of a character's arc into a single episode, especially in the second to last one!

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Kai being the character chief gets experimental with would have been way more interesting and believable.

I don't think it would have been either one of those things.

It would not really have done much to complicate the narrative, and Makee is in a similar situation to the Chief. They are 'the same' as she tells him, and in some sense that's very true. The show makes this totally clear (the parallel nudity in Episode 2, the examination of both their scars, both being kidnapped as a child, the questioning of your guardians, etc). I think it makes sense emotionally for them to get together this way. Plus… now Chief trusted a spy which has implications moving forward for narrative.

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Kai being the character chief gets experimental with would have been way more interesting and believable.

I don't think it would have been either one of those things.

It would not really have done much to complicate the narrative, and Makee is in a similar situation to the Chief. They are 'the same' as she tells him, and in some sense that's very true. The show makes this totally clear (the parallel nudity in Episode 2, the examination of both their scars, both being kidnapped as a child, the questioning of your guardians, etc). I think it makes sense emotionally for them to get together this way. Plus… now Chief trusted a spy which has implications moving forward for narrative.

Not as written. Obviously how it is works better for the show that’s been written. I just don’t think it’s done very well.

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Kai being the character chief gets experimental with would have been way more interesting and believable.

I don't think it would have been either one of those things.

It would not really have done much to complicate the narrative, and Makee is in a similar situation to the Chief. They are 'the same' as she tells him, and in some sense that's very true. The show makes this totally clear (the parallel nudity in Episode 2, the examination of both their scars, both being kidnapped as a child, the questioning of your guardians, etc). I think it makes sense emotionally for them to get together this way. Plus… now Chief trusted a spy which has implications moving forward for narrative.

Not as written. Obviously how it is works better for the show that’s been written. I just don’t think it’s done very well.

Next week's your chance to rewrite! :-p

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Kai being the character chief gets experimental with would have been way more interesting and believable.

I don't think it would have been either one of those things.

It would not really have done much to complicate the narrative, and Makee is in a similar situation to the Chief. They are 'the same' as she tells him, and in some sense that's very true. The show makes this totally clear (the parallel nudity in Episode 2, the examination of both their scars, both being kidnapped as a child, the questioning of your guardians, etc). I think it makes sense emotionally for them to get together this way. Plus… now Chief trusted a spy which has implications moving forward for narrative.

Not as written. Obviously how it is works better for the show that’s been written. I just don’t think it’s done very well.

Next week's your chance to rewrite! :-p

I'm on it!

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Kai being the character chief gets experimental with would have been way more interesting and believable.

I don't think it would have been either one of those things.

It would not really have done much to complicate the narrative, and Makee is in a similar situation to the Chief. They are 'the same' as she tells him, and in some sense that's very true. The show makes this totally clear (the parallel nudity in Episode 2, the examination of both their scars, both being kidnapped as a child, the questioning of your guardians, etc). I think it makes sense emotionally for them to get together this way. Plus… now Chief trusted a spy which has implications moving forward for narrative.

Not as written. Obviously how it is works better for the show that’s been written. I just don’t think it’s done very well.

Next week's your chance to rewrite! :-p

I'm on it!

You know if it's too good, I'll have to do HaloTV.isnotcanon.net

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(even Makee's marine guard gets a character arc!)

Badum Tish!

I mean, I can understand the negative reaction. So many times, a love story has to be shoe horned into a story when it doesn't have to be. The concept of them exploring each others bodies was fine. It was probably the first time either of them had been with anyone....ever.

But can you imagine, those two smoke shows in the throws and it's super awkward because they have no idea what to do? haha...but I digress.

And then that scene of her ripping our her fingernail!!? GOOD LAAAWWWRRDDD!!

I've really been enjoying the Halsey store line. She is truly despicable. We never got a lot of story about her in the games but she probably was this bad in the games too.

The action scenes were great. I'm intrigued by the characters and looking forward to what happens. I hope it ends with the Covenant finding them, boarding the In Amber Clad and blindly jumping to a destination that Cortana found in the artifact...taking them to Halo. Mwa!

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I've really been enjoying the Halsey store line. She is truly despicable. We never got a lot of story about her in the games but she probably was this bad in the games too.

Yes! The look on Keyes' face when she says "No, actually I'd burn it all down, you, miranda, everything, just to get to my goal" was just so great.

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I mostly agree with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_EbMqIsIKc

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I mostly agree with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_EbMqIsIKc

"The dialogue is very below my age"

Haha.

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I mostly agree with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_EbMqIsIKc

"The dialogue is very below my age"

Haha.

Underming himself a little, eh? I'm sympathetic with many of his points. The writing can be uneven. Not everything worked for me this episode, but what did work and what was smart was the story of Makee, and her decision to embrace her humanity and then be torn away from that embrace. The postcoital scene and the excruciating fingernail scene were crucial, and what was so great about it, was how we know something about her no one else can know. It's good when we can see the characters acting out of ignorance of the full picture, and the domino effect of all that. Looking forward to the next one!

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I've been thinking about this post for days.

I've noticed a change, Cody. It's probably been present for a while, but first, second, and [...] impressions die hard. Perhaps it's rude to bring up anything from years ago, but you're not as dogmatic as you used to be. You've always had a big impact here, and kept things lively. That's to the good, but there's been less good parts.

This post is classic Cody: very articulate, it contains strong, forceful opinions, but then there's this kicker:

Like, if you hated it please reply. I won't argue or mock you or anything… I literally just want to comprehend.

I wanted to kiss the screen. May we all seek to understand this sincerely.

I hope you don't take this as condescending or faint praise, I just appreciate you and this post. I believed them when they told me you were a good guy in person, I knew you were a good guy in chat, but you've pulled off something admirable and difficult: disagreeing without rancor online.

Kerm

I hope someday we can raise a glass together. It'll be on me.

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I’ve been watching the show week-to-week and (mostly) enjoying it up until the now-infamous sex scene. While I’ve got no problem with the concept of giving Master Chief a romantic and/or sexual relationship, I did not feel that the moment was earned given the way they chose to do it.

For one thing, what the hell is Chief doing making a booty call in a high-security prison cell? Like, aren’t there cameras? And then he just spends the night like it’s no big deal. Bro, I get it, Makee is a nice-looking woman and you’re (probably) a virgin, but don’t you think you might get caught? Doesn’t it seem like a really, really bad idea to be doing this? Moreover, doesn’t Chief have enough wherewithal to realize that literally sleeping with the enemy will probably backfire spectacularly? At the very least, it’s a huge opsec risk and he should know better than to do it. Again, I do understand that Chief is a 40 year old virgin and that he’s experiencing this really intense and specific emotional connection with Makee, but I don’t think the context justifies the stupidity of his behavior here.

I don’t know, man. It didn’t kill the show for me and I’m still going to watch the finale to see how they wrap all of this up, but it was a major letdown in such an otherwise good episode.

I mean, at least they didn’t have him fuck Cortana… although when they cut away to that shot of her watching him, I actually laughed out loud. Her expression combined with the unintentional comedic timing of the cut was just too perfect.

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I’ve been watching the show week-to-week and (mostly) enjoying it up until the now-infamous sex scene. While I’ve got no problem with the concept of giving Master Chief a romantic and/or sexual relationship, I did not feel that the moment was earned given the way they chose to do it.

For one thing, what the hell is Chief doing making a booty call in a high-security prison cell? Like, aren’t there cameras? And then he just spends the night like it’s no big deal. Bro, I get it, Makee is a nice-looking woman and you’re (probably) a virgin, but don’t you think you might get caught? Doesn’t it seem like a really, really bad idea to be doing this? Moreover, doesn’t Chief have enough wherewithal to realize that literally sleeping with the enemy will probably backfire spectacularly? At the very least, it’s a huge opsec risk and he should know better than to do it. Again, I do understand that Chief is a 40 year old virgin and that he’s experiencing this really intense and specific emotional connection with Makee, but I don’t think the context justifies the stupidity of his behavior here.

I agree that it happened a little quickly, but it's not like they didn't foreshadow the romantic connection, and it truly does serve the plot. I mean, all young lovers see themselves as singularly unique, and these two actually are. I also get it's a mindf*ck to those totally wed to the Steve Downes, faceless, Mr. Business Master Chief. This ain't him ... yet. Taking out the emotion regulator was little like the multiverse plotline in the Star Trek reboot (before the creative landscape became lousy with multiverses). It's gives them a lot of room to play. Besides, if Mankitten's amazingly specific prognostications are correct, it'll all be all right for the canon referees.

I don’t know, man. It didn’t kill the show for me and I’m still going to watch the finale to see how they wrap all of this up, but it was a major letdown in such an otherwise good episode.

I mean, at least they didn’t have him fuck Cortana… although when they cut away to that shot of her watching him, I actually laughed out loud. Her expression combined with the unintentional comedic timing of the cut was just too perfect.

I enjoyed that, too.

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He never thought she was the "enemy". He trusted her. Only we, an eventually Miranda knew what she really was. And the guard that was like "She's totally a squidhead" lol

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This is how I hope it ends.

Makee signals the covenant with the artifact -
Covenant find Reach and begin the glassing -
Everyone hops onto In Amber Clad -
Cortana finds coordinates in Artifact to jump to -
Arrive at Halo -
Calm moment as everyone is blinded by its majesty -
Covenant arrive next -

Roll credits.

Post credit tease of the flood.

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This is how I hope it ends.

Makee signals the covenant with the artifact -
Covenant find Reach and begin the glassing -
Everyone hops onto In Amber Clad -
Cortana finds coordinates in Artifact to jump to -
Arrive at Halo -
Calm moment as everyone is blinded by its majesty -
Covenant arrive next -

Roll credits.

Post credit tease of the flood.

You forgot to tie Kwan back into the story.

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This is how I hope it ends.

Makee signals the covenant with the artifact -
Covenant find Reach and begin the glassing -
Everyone hops onto In Amber Clad -
Cortana finds coordinates in Artifact to jump to -
Arrive at Halo -
Calm moment as everyone is blinded by its majesty -
Covenant arrive next -

Roll credits.

Post credit tease of the flood.

You forgot to tie Kwan back into the story.

No I didn't.

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This is how I hope it ends.

Makee signals the covenant with the artifact -
Covenant find Reach and begin the glassing -
Everyone hops onto In Amber Clad -
Cortana finds coordinates in Artifact to jump to -
Arrive at Halo -
Calm moment as everyone is blinded by its majesty -
Covenant arrive next -

Roll credits.

Post credit tease of the flood.

You forgot to tie Kwan back into the story.

No I didn't.

[image]

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- No text -

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This is how I hope it ends.

Makee signals the covenant with the artifact -
Covenant find Reach and begin the glassing -
Everyone hops onto In Amber Clad -
Cortana finds coordinates in Artifact to jump to -
Arrive at Halo -
Calm moment as everyone is blinded by its majesty -
Covenant arrive next -

Roll credits.

Post credit tease of the flood.

Credit to my boy, MechaTanuki for this detail.

There has to be a scene where Master Chief / Cortana take a significant physical blow, to the point where his armor gets jacked up and has to get re-calibrated. As the person checking him out gives him the ol' "Look up, now down...to the right, now left. Ok you're good to go."

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This is how I hope it ends.

Makee signals the covenant with the artifact -
Covenant find Reach and begin the glassing -
Everyone hops onto In Amber Clad -
Cortana finds coordinates in Artifact to jump to -
Arrive at Halo -
Calm moment as everyone is blinded by its majesty -
Covenant arrive next -

Roll credits.

Post credit tease of the flood.

Credit to my boy, MechaTanuki for this detail.

There has to be a scene where Master Chief / Cortana take a significant physical blow, to the point where his armor gets jacked up and has to get re-calibrated. As the person checking him out gives him the ol' "Look up, now down...to the right, now left. Ok you're good to go."

Didn't something like that already happen in the show? I could be misremembering.

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This is how I hope it ends.

Makee signals the covenant with the artifact -
Covenant find Reach and begin the glassing -
Everyone hops onto In Amber Clad -
Cortana finds coordinates in Artifact to jump to -
Arrive at Halo -
Calm moment as everyone is blinded by its majesty -
Covenant arrive next -

Roll credits.

Post credit tease of the flood.

Credit to my boy, MechaTanuki for this detail.

There has to be a scene where Master Chief / Cortana take a significant physical blow, to the point where his armor gets jacked up and has to get re-calibrated. As the person checking him out gives him the ol' "Look up, now down...to the right, now left. Ok you're good to go."

"Look down"

Chief Looks up.

"Whoops, you're in inverted mode"

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Because Breitzen is right.

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So the finale is kind of a mix of both the best of the series and the worst of the series, but overall it's more of the best.

Starting with the worst, the idea of the climactic battle was good, but I'm not sure about the execution. It was once again very video gamey in logic and presentation. Yes in the game we could mow down hundreds of enemies easily, but in a TV show it just ends up feeling ridiculous with the crazy fully CG shots that defy physics and look animated. And just… don't go to first person. Please. It's just a stretch to do it this way with the budget they have. Fewer covenant that are harder to take down would have made the fight more cathartic. If they had them scramble to take down each one rather than blowing most away I think it would have been better, and victory sweeter. Sure they need to be overwhelmed, but even with Cortana taking over it felt like there'd be no way. Taking down the Brute that stole the artifact in episode 5 should have felt amazing! But he was sort of just crushed by a random pillar. Ug. I'm also unclear on some elements. Why did only the elites get hurled away when Makee touched the artifact? Why not the brutes, grunts, or other spartans?

But still, the idea narratively worked fine, and was I think emotionally in the right place.

Halsey replacing herself with a flash clone was badass.

They went really dark with Adun… finally Halo has a depraved pervert.

Unlike the games, you really do get a sense that Silver team knows each other, and have a relationship together, as well as having individual personalities. Although, I don't think a Spartan would have to ask what spaghettification was (aren't they supposed to be the best and brightest?) Just write the line in a way that it's clear "The ship will be destroyed". Easy.

There's some nice touches like the the spartans being able to run faster than the Chief when he doesn't have his suit on. Kai running to catch up to the ship was a little ridiculous though, but everything that happened before the opening credits was absolutely compelling.

I was a little surprised by Kawn's story. Not necessarily that it didn't tie back in this season, but that it didn't really feel that developed. I figured it would be about her learning to become a leader, rallying everyone against Vishner and becoming the general that her father was. But… she just kind of killed him off quickly. Especially if storylines aren't going to intersect for a while, you've really got to make sure that the storyline is fulfilling and interesting. It's kind of a weird choice…

And of course by the end, I'm now wondering if Halsey got what she wanted after all…

I await season 2.

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Can we get some new show runners for Season 2?

More thoughts later, but what an unsatisfying finale.

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Can we get some new show runners for Season 2?

[image]

They literally ARE getting a new show runner for season 2. But my gut tells me season 2 will pivot too hard because of stupid internet hate, and the show will suffer. Stay the course guys! Refine what you have and improve the weaknesses.

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Can we get some new show runners for Season 2?

They literally ARE getting a new show runner for season 2. But my gut tells me season 2 will pivot too hard because of stupid internet hate, and the show will suffer. Stay the course guys! Refine what you have and improve the weaknesses.

This^

I had low expectations for the show and I was pleasantly surprised, for many of the reasons you've already articulated. I admire that they made their own thing. The finale was disappointing over all. I seem to like the episodes that are less about action, I guess. Some lines, especially during the action sequences were hackneyed crap. "The ship won't hold!" "She'll hold."

I'm a fan. though, who will keep watching with fingers crossed.

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Some lines, especially during the action sequences were hackneyed crap. "The ship won't hold!" "She'll hold."

I thought that was a direct quote from the games, but after a cursory search through some cutscenes it doesn't appear to be. I swear I can hear "She'll hold" (or perhaps "It'll hold") in the Chief's voice in my memory somewhere. At the very least it's a twist on "We're not going to make it!" and "We'll make it" that Bungie used like three times. Especially given the crash and then then Kai pulling herself onto the ledge, just like Chief did in the games.

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Some lines, especially during the action sequences were hackneyed crap. "The ship won't hold!" "She'll hold."

I thought that was a direct quote from the games, but after a cursory search through some cutscenes it doesn't appear to be. I swear I can hear "She'll hold" (or perhaps "It'll hold") in the Chief's voice in my memory somewhere. At the very least it's a twist on "We're not going to make it!" and "We'll make it" that Bungie used like three times. Especially given the crash and then then Kai pulling herself onto the ledge, just like Chief did in the games.

D'oh. Good point. An echo I missed. I guess I just didn't like that sequence anyway. At one point a character says something like cabin A is on fire, and I thought Pelicans have cabins? (Maybe this one did--it was biggest Pelican I'd ever seen.)

I guess what really bugged me was I didn't see what line they were supposedly holding. I didn't understand what they were doing, and how it related to whatever Cortana was supposedly doing, and anytime it showed a Master Chief's hand on the yoke, it looked fake, like actors in old TV shows directed to act like they steering fake cars but overdoing it.

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Some lines, especially during the action sequences were hackneyed crap. "The ship won't hold!" "She'll hold."

I thought that was a direct quote from the games, but after a cursory search through some cutscenes it doesn't appear to be. I swear I can hear "She'll hold" (or perhaps "It'll hold") in the Chief's voice in my memory somewhere. At the very least it's a twist on "We're not going to make it!" and "We'll make it" that Bungie used like three times. Especially given the crash and then then Kai pulling herself onto the ledge, just like Chief did in the games.

D'oh. Good point. An echo I missed. I guess I just didn't like that sequence anyway. At one point a character says something like cabin A is on fire, and I thought Pelicans have cabins? (Maybe this one did--it was biggest Pelican I'd ever seen.)

I thought she said “cabinet.”

I guess what really bugged me was I didn't see what line they were supposedly holding. I didn't understand what they were doing, and how it related to whatever Cortana was supposedly doing, and anytime it showed a Master Chief's hand on the yoke, it looked fake, like actors in old TV shows directed to act like they steering fake cars but overdoing it.

I don’t disagree there. None of the action in the finale was good, which is disappointing, because I thought the Spartans fighting in the previous episode was pretty well done.

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I just thought of one thing I didn't like. I find the whole concept of
AIs taking over spartan bodies and fighting to be a mistake. It's undercuts the whole idea of John's unique talents if he's just a meat puppet for an AI. It did serve one big purpose, however, which is to allow Chief to pick up the artifact without freezing.

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Yeah, that was my major complaint, too. At a certain point, why not just build a separate suit and put Cortana in it? The whole point is they work better together, and it was a little off-putting that Cortana essentially without John was far more effective.

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Yeah, that was my major complaint, too. At a certain point, why not just build a separate suit and put Cortana in it?

Because it's not the suit, it's his actual body being taken over. Which is silly, but it is what it is.

The whole point is they work better together, and it was a little off-putting that Cortana essentially without John was far more effective.

The point in the books, yes. The point in the series is apparently Dr Halsey meant for this the whole time. I wonder if Cortana being produced from a flash-clone of hers is a big part of this in the series' justification. Like, she is achieving her own sort of immortality?

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Yeah, that was my major complaint, too. At a certain point, why not just build a separate suit and put Cortana in it?

Because it's not the suit, it's his actual body being taken over. Which is silly, but it is what it is.

Sure. But I have to believe if they can create an AI that can interface with and control a human body, they could just build a robot wrapped in MJOLNIR armor she could control instead.

The whole point is they work better together, and it was a little off-putting that Cortana essentially without John was far more effective.

The point in the books, yes. The point in the series is apparently Dr Halsey meant for this the whole time. I wonder if Cortana being produced from a flash-clone of hers is a big part of this in the series' justification. Like, she is achieving her own sort of immortality?

I think that’s the point in the show, too. Cortana changes her mind about working with Halsey because she believes in the Chief. Her taking control sort of undercuts that.

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Sure. But I have to believe if they can create an AI that can interface with and control a human body, they could just build a robot wrapped in MJOLNIR armor she could control instead.

But the humanity! ;p

I think that’s the point in the show, too. Cortana changes her mind about working with Halsey because she believes in the Chief. Her taking control sort of undercuts that.

I mean, he did die there, so I guess it didn't? Thank god we'll get new showrunners, this was a mess.

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I’m not as down on the series as many of you appear to be, but I think it’s fair to say that this first season was a bit of a mess. It felt like there were several competing ideas of what the showrunners wanted to do with it and none of them were given the proper level of attention or development on-screen. I’m actually 100% fine with the many changes to canon as long as they make sense for the story the showrunners want to tell, but in a few cases it seemed like those changes were made for completely arbitrary reasons. More egregiously, characters sometimes made huge decisions for completely arbitrary (or just plain stupid) reasons, most prominently when Chief trusted a UNSC prisoner so implicitly that he slept with her inside of a monitored holding cell and then stayed the night for good measure.

I’m not really sure where this show wants to go in Season 2. I think there are some things we can deduce about the plot, but character-wise, I don’t know where any of this is leading. It doesn’t seem like they’re trying to “match up” to any established major events in existing canon, so I think this is going to go in its own direction, but what that means is a total mystery at the moment. Again, I’m fine with that, but it needs to be a direction that makes sense and exists in service of the story they are trying to tell. The trouble is that I’m not certain they know exactly what that story is in the first place.

Makee’s death seemed very premature and I’m sad that she will not return for Season 2 because it did not feel like we got to know her very well at all. Similarly, Kwan’s story didn’t resolve so much as reach a pre-defined end point without any apparent relevance to the greater plot of the season or the show overall. It feels like they don’t really have a plan for any of these characters, and that’s not a very encouraging realization.

However, the show continues to excel in its action scenes (when it bothers to stage them) as well as its overall pacing and, while I find myself in the minority regarding this next point (at least over on Reddit), I’m mostly very pleased with the way the show has chosen to depict the Master Chief and his fellow Spartans. Other characters like Halsey and Miranda show a lot of promise, but I’m going to be looking for tighter and more introspective writing in Season 2 to develop that promise into something substantial. The jury is still out, but if Season 2 fails to build upon the foundation that this first season established, then I will likely stop watching upon its conclusion.

Overall, it was a decent finale that ended very abruptly and left a lot of plot and character threads unresolved. I’ll be back for more when the show resumes.

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Makee’s death seemed very premature and I’m sad that she will not return for Season 2 because it did not feel like we got to know her very well at all. Similarly, Kwan’s story didn’t resolve so much as reach a pre-defined end point without any apparent relevance to the greater plot of the season or the show overall. It feels like they don’t really have a plan for any of these characters, and that’s not a very encouraging realization.

Kwan's story was, as much I hate to say it, the real weak point. I'm wondering if the cut from 10 episodes to 9 shortchanged her story.

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