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Indiscriminate strikes on YouTube (have consequences) (Destiny)

by Robot Chickens, Friday, June 24, 2022, 10:13 (45 days ago)

Insane first posted this event where somebody impersonated Bungie and asked YouTube to take down a bunch of videos that used Destiny music. He exploited a "loophole" in the system whereby youtube doesn't verify the source of a take-down request. This was done in retaliation to the person's own channel getting shutdown due to multiple violations that did not fall under Bungie's interpretation of fair use. It pissed a lot of the community off (some at the dude, and some at Bungie).

Apparently that crime is worth $7.6 million according to Bungie's lawyers. Ouch.

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Indiscriminate strikes on YouTube (have consequences)

by cheapLEY @, Friday, June 24, 2022, 12:55 (45 days ago) @ Robot Chickens

The fact that anyone thinks anything that happens on YouTube is worth millions of dollars is a sick commentary on our society.

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Indiscriminate strikes on YouTube (have consequences)

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, June 24, 2022, 14:32 (45 days ago) @ cheapLEY

The fact that anyone thinks anything that happens on YouTube is worth millions of dollars is a sick commentary on our society.

I know you don't like streamers, but that's not all of youtube. There are good people making good content on youtube.

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Indiscriminate strikes on YouTube (have consequences)

by cheapLEY @, Friday, June 24, 2022, 14:52 (45 days ago) @ Kermit

None of it is worth 8 million dollars. Seriously, I’d love to see how they got to that number. Do they think they somehow were damaged by 8 million dollars from this? Give me a break.

I’m not talking about individual streamers here. Bungie should be suing YouTube for their shitty system that allowed this to happen, not some dipshit kid that got some videos taken down for a few days because said system is so fucking broken. Individual creators were harmed here, not Bungie. I appreciate Bungie fighting it, but they’re fighting the wrong fucking person.

Today of all days, we’re here talking about YouTube like it matters at all. It’s just fucking silly, hence my previous post.

Indiscriminate strikes on YouTube (have consequences)

by Claude Errera @, Friday, June 24, 2022, 16:25 (45 days ago) @ cheapLEY

None of it is worth 8 million dollars. Seriously, I’d love to see how they got to that number. Do they think they somehow were damaged by 8 million dollars from this? Give me a break.

I don't think they think they were damaged by 8 million dollars. If you look at the complaint itself, you'll see that it's a (standard) fee per violation ("enhanced statutory damages of $150,000 for each of the works") times the 51 violations.

(Page 28)

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Indiscriminate strikes on YouTube (have consequences)

by cheapLEY @, Friday, June 24, 2022, 16:40 (45 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Thank you. Admittedly I was too lazy (and didn’t care enough) to go looking for that info. But that is the information I was curious about.

I still think it’s stupid. This kid’s life will be ruined, Bungie and it’s community (and probably Google) will tout it as a win and then move on. Nothing will actually change, small creators will still have their channels (and livelihoods) live and die by the whims of takedowns that they can’t even defend against. Whippeee.

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Indiscriminate strikes on YouTube (have consequences)

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, June 24, 2022, 19:55 (45 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Thank you. Admittedly I was too lazy (and didn’t care enough) to go looking for that info. But that is the information I was curious about.

I still think it’s stupid. This kid’s life will be ruined, Bungie and it’s community (and probably Google) will tout it as a win and then move on. Nothing will actually change, small creators will still have their channels (and livelihoods) live and die by the whims of takedowns that they can’t even defend against. Whippeee.

Bungie used the filing to puff up free to play lol:

23. And this isn’t just gratifying for Bungie, though seeing the community’s love for its game is certainly that. Destiny’s base game is free to play, as is character levelling – gamers can play Destiny 2 without purchasing anything at all unless they want to.

24. Instead, Bungie’s income stream from the Destiny 2 game is entirely based on additional content gamers choose to buy: downloadable content including expansions (additional campaigns and storylines), in-game currency (“Silver,” which players can purchase for real money and use in the Destiny 2 world to “purchase” cosmetic items for their characters), seasonal content, and other in-game features and additions.

25. Thus, unlike a more typical model in which companies earn income by retailing individual copies or downloads of games, Bungie generates revenue from Destiny 2 if and only if its players find the game experience so compelling and enjoyable that they want to buy additional content.

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What the hell?

by cheapLEY @, Friday, June 24, 2022, 21:06 (45 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Bungie used the filing to puff up free to play lol:

23. And this isn’t just gratifying for Bungie, though seeing the community’s love for its game is certainly that. Destiny’s base game is free to play, as is character levelling – gamers can play Destiny 2 without purchasing anything at all unless they want to.

24. Instead, Bungie’s income stream from the Destiny 2 game is entirely based on additional content gamers choose to buy: downloadable content including expansions (additional campaigns and storylines), in-game currency (“Silver,” which players can purchase for real money and use in the Destiny 2 world to “purchase” cosmetic items for their characters), seasonal content, and other in-game features and additions.

25. Thus, unlike a more typical model in which companies earn income by retailing individual copies or downloads of games, Bungie generates revenue from Destiny 2 if and only if its players find the game experience so compelling and enjoyable that they want to buy additional content.

Is that seriously how Bungie sees Destiny? That's the most disengeneous horseshit I think I've ever seen. Destiny is "free" in the same way weed was "free" when I got to hang out and smoke a joint at my dealer's house in college when I was buying a half.

Bungie is just a soulless corporation like the rest of them.

by Coaxkez, Saturday, June 25, 2022, 09:07 (44 days ago) @ cheapLEY

If there’s only one illusion of mine that has been broken by the on-and-off controversy and negativity surrounding Bungie over the past decade, it’s the illusion that any company is capable of being “different”. They’re all soulless profit-driven entities without exception. A company cannot effectively “stand for” anything beyond its own self-interest. Companies behave the way they do because they must be competitive within the confines of the system, which requires them to play ball with the worst of the worst. Bungie is no better than anyone else in that regard, including a behemoth like Microsoft. They just don’t have as much power or as many opportunities to take advantage of people.

None of which is to say that Bungie is an “evil” company or that there are not good people with good intentions working there. I know better than that. I am not some kind of crusader. “Soulless” simply means exactly what it says on the tin. Amoral. Self-interested. Psychopathic. It was unrealistic to believe that Bungie was ever above that sort of thing, or indeed that any company could ever be above it in our perverse economic system.

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Bungie is just a soulless corporation like the rest of them.

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Sunday, June 26, 2022, 12:38 (43 days ago) @ Coaxkez

If there’s only one illusion of mine that has been broken by the on-and-off controversy and negativity surrounding Bungie over the past decade, it’s the illusion that any company is capable of being “different”. They’re all soulless profit-driven entities without exception. A company cannot effectively “stand for” anything beyond its own self-interest. Companies behave the way they do because they must be competitive within the confines of the system, which requires them to play ball with the worst of the worst. Bungie is no better than anyone else in that regard, including a behemoth like Microsoft. They just don’t have as much power or as many opportunities to take advantage of people.

None of which is to say that Bungie is an “evil” company or that there are not good people with good intentions working there. I know better than that. I am not some kind of crusader. “Soulless” simply means exactly what it says on the tin. Amoral. Self-interested. Psychopathic. It was unrealistic to believe that Bungie was ever above that sort of thing, or indeed that any company could ever be above it in our perverse economic system.

Setting aside whether I agree with your assessment of Bungie specifically I want to fight back on this "The Corporation" view of businesses. Businesses are made up of people and should be thought of accordingly by the public. The legal fiction that businesses are a person/entity of themselves is something we all pretend to make certain legal operations easier, it's not a moral shield.

It's is a marionette. Saying it is soulless is true. Saying it is driven by anything other than a person is wrong, confounding, and opens the door to not holding people accountable. Companies can and do stand for things beyond profit.

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You know this was not written by Bungie, right?

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Sunday, June 26, 2022, 12:29 (43 days ago) @ cheapLEY

25. Thus, unlike a more typical model in which companies earn income by retailing individual copies or downloads of games, Bungie generates revenue from Destiny 2 if and only if its players find the game experience so compelling and enjoyable that they want to buy additional content.


Is that seriously how Bungie sees Destiny? That's the most disengeneous horseshit I think I've ever seen. Destiny is "free" in the same way weed was "free" when I got to hang out and smoke a joint at my dealer's house in college when I was buying a half.

The filing needs to lay out damages and this is them showing how repetitional damage and chilling 3rd party creators causes monetary damage. They also need to lay out an argument against a counter claim that Bungie was not harmed because game downloads were not slowing down after Minor's acts.

Setting aside the specific dollar amount, do you really think this is not true? Bungie offers a certain amount free and the income comes from people being convinced that there is something new or additional to pay for. I can't imagine how you could argue it is anything else. (nor why Cody believes that the law firm Bungie hired was trying to sell the judge on the f2p model)

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You know this was not written by Bungie, right?

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, June 26, 2022, 13:14 (43 days ago) @ Vortech

I didn’t say it was a lie. I said it was disingenuous.

Indiscriminate strikes on YouTube (have consequences)

by FyreWulff, Saturday, June 25, 2022, 04:36 (45 days ago) @ cheapLEY

The fact that anyone thinks anything that happens on YouTube is worth millions of dollars is a sick commentary on our society.

I don't think Bungie actually intends to extract 8 million dollars from this Youtuber, partly because they'll never get it. I think they're very afraid of their quasi-open relationship re: content with the community (see how they came up with the draft for Microsoft Game Content Usage Rules after MS almost burned down the community because their lawyers paniced) being undone by this being in the press and Sony clamping down on everything, which they already did with the game's music rights.

But they also have to file suits in a certain way to be taken seriously and point to more coordinated and well funded companies that might try the same later.

I predict an undisclosed small settlement and a video apology from the Youtuber in question with a script agreed upon by the lawyers and that will be the end of it.

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ISoY: Bungie "Strikes" Back

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Friday, June 24, 2022, 19:07 (45 days ago) @ Robot Chickens
edited by INSANEdrive, Friday, June 24, 2022, 19:13

Alt Title: Stupid Games. Stupid Prizes.

Note: Wrote this last night, but it was too late to post it. Was going to make a post today, but got delayed by other things. Wa-evs. It's all good. Since this post is now existing without my doing so, what I wrote may be a touch redundant now, but... again, whatever. What I have to say still works. Here it is. Cheers.

This thread is a follow up to the posts I (and Vortech) made 3 or so months ago about the (as I titled it) "Indiscriminate Strikes on Youtube", where all sorts of Destiny Youtuber and Bungies own official YouTube account got hit with DCMA take down notices and strikes. Of this topic, yesterday I was made aware that there was progress on this story, thanks in part to the brief mention in this weeks razor thin TWAB.

Takedown Update

In a previous TWAB (https://destiny.bungie.org/bwu/405), we let everyone know that a series of copyright takedown issues on YouTube had been identified as being fraudulent by someone impersonating our intellectual property protection service. We wanted to give a brief update and let everyone affected know that we have identified the individual responsible and we are taking legal action.

We take these matters seriously and will invest the time and resources required to protect our community from malicious actors.

That said, do not attempt to harass, attack, or pile onto this individual. Any direct outreach not by Bungie’s legal team could impair our ability to address the harm done to our community, which is our priority. We have your backs on this and will make sure this individual meets with the future they deserve. Much though we appreciate the sentiment, we aren’t asking for your help in making that happen.

Now that this person has been identified, it has removed some challenges we faced in reviewing license requests for archived music uploads. If you have been waiting for these, thank you for your patience, and we hope to get back to you in the next few weeks.

The underline formatting is my edit.

So I went to look for the public legal brief, found it, and I gave it a read. I was curious on what the lowdown on what transpired was all about. And, uh... I'm no lawyer, but...

[image]

*Shocked Laughter* Hol-ee shit, what a dumb ass. This kid (who on a quick look AND NO MORE, 'cause it's NOT OUR business (nor should we want it to be), seems to be in his 20's)... has tactically nuked himself into... well potentially bankruptcy. I don't know. Not good, but based on what I read, that's what happens what you reach the "find out" phase. Don't know what was going on in this persons life prior, but it sure wasn't a gem. The reported actions of the accused are of such blind and baneful wrath for stupid and meaningless reasons, I can hardly stand it. Reading the legal brief had me finding myself trying to express a dozen things at once and they're all half sentences of "You freaking power drunk fool" and (somehow) split second motions of tactical face-palms. This young idiot went all "Tack-ti-COOL Mall Cop" in his antics and I for one wasn't ready for the ending of the story before the lawyers start outlining damages. The ending about "The letter" and the "threats" preceding it.

Just.

WHAT.

...ROFL...

SO... if ya'll want a READ, here's where I found an article which provides not only a link to read the official legal brief, but also a pretty solid telling of what all this is about here-in should you need it. But folks, if you ask me, the -real- interesting stuff both indirect an otherwise, is in the brief. One of my favorite paragraphs being;

106. While Bungie’s legal department, management, and executives were
attempting to negotiate the byzantine procedural labyrinth Google required before it
would address the fraud Minor was committing, let alone identify him to Bungie,
Minor was gloating, confessing, and threatening.

"byzantine procedural labyrinth" ... *chefs kiss* lol. Oh man have I've known them feels.

I won't say much else, short of spoiling any more than already has been, but... wow. Far more entertaining a read then I had expected. Maybe we'll chatter about it later. Or not, can never really tell around here.

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