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Chris Barrett’s defense - everyone at Bungie did it too (Destiny)

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, February 20, 2025, 07:24 (23 days ago)
edited by Cody Miller, Thursday, February 20, 2025, 08:08

So Chris Barrett filed a lawsuit for wrongful termination. His defense is basically that everyone else was just as bad.

A very senior Bungie executive texted Barrett and others sexually suggestive material, including lewd photographs, texts about his sex life (including graphic descriptions of particular sex acts), and texts concerning the appearance of women working for Bungie

The same senior Bungie executive frequently showed up for work drunk, attending group meetings while clearly intoxicated, and engaged in sexual conduct at Bungie sponsored events

One of Bungie's founding members made frequent sexist and racist comments in group settings. For example, in a leadership meeting, he joked that "a woman's place is barefoot and pregnant" (or words to that effect)

Bungie maintained an email channel that shared lewd and semi-pornographic content to the entire studio. Those images were occasionally shared on a projector at studio events

For many years, Bungie had a "knighting" ceremony for long-time employees. As part of that ceremony, the "knighted" employee (male or female) would be required to kneel in front of senior Bungie management to be "knighted" with a sword. During the ceremony it was common for lewd comments to be made, induding a statement that the kneeling employee had "assumed the position, like your mom before you" — an obvious reference to oral sex. "Knighting" ceremonies were done in front of the entire studio

https://www.gamefile.news/p/sony-bungie-christopher-barrett-lawsuit-response

Sony basically went point by point to shut down his case. Looks like they aren’t going to just give in here.

https://www.scribd.com/document/830250465/Christopher-Barrett-v-Sony-Interactive-Entertainment-LLC-and-Bungie-Inc-202...

At least an amusing section in all this is Sony recognizing Destiny as a legendary video game franchise, but not Halo.

Defendants recognize that the allegation in Paragraph 2 that Halo and Destiny are "some of the world's most legendary video games franchises" is a matter of opinion, but Defendants are of the opinion that Destiny is indeed a legendary video game franchise. Defendants deny the remaining allegations set forth in Paragraph 2 of the Complaint.

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just abhorrent, my heart goes out to the victims

by kidtsunami @, Atlanta, GA, Thursday, February 20, 2025, 07:39 (23 days ago) @ Cody Miller

- No text -

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Gross

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, February 20, 2025, 08:12 (23 days ago) @ Cody Miller

- No text -

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Stupid defense that will never work.

by Coaxkez, Thursday, February 20, 2025, 16:20 (23 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I do think he’s probably right, though. Sadly.

But it’s not like that makes him look any better.

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Stupid defense that will never work.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, February 23, 2025, 08:34 (20 days ago) @ Coaxkez

I do think he’s probably right, though. Sadly.

But it’s not like that makes him look any better.

The more compelling argument is that he claims he did not actually violate any of Bungie's policies or guidelines, and therefore a for cause firing is illegitimate. Being fired for cause is a necessary condition for not paying out his shares. Being laid off or being fired without cause would mean that'd have to cash him out, which is what he's looking for.

By more compelling I mean 'has a slightly better chance of working'.

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Stupid defense that will never work.

by Coaxkez, Sunday, February 23, 2025, 16:33 (20 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I’m not a lawyer, but “everyone else was violating policies / guidelines” doesn’t seem like a valid defense to show that you were not violating policies / guidelines.

Poor enforcement doesn’t nullify what’s on the books.

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Stupid defense that will never work.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, February 24, 2025, 12:31 (19 days ago) @ Coaxkez

I’m not a lawyer, but “everyone else was violating policies / guidelines” doesn’t seem like a valid defense to show that you were not violating policies / guidelines.

Those are two separate things.

1. I didn't actually violate any policies.
2. Even if I did, they did it too so I was singled out unfairly.

It's a two pronged approach. Go to 2 if 1 fails.

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Stupid defense that will never work.

by Schooly D, TSD Gaming Condo, TX, Monday, February 24, 2025, 21:54 (19 days ago) @ Coaxkez

I’m not a lawyer, but “everyone else was violating policies / guidelines” doesn’t seem like a valid defense to show that you were not violating policies / guidelines.

You're correct, this is a clear indication that you're not a lawyer. His case isn't "I never did X, Y, or Z," it's that his termination was unfair or illegitimate.

If you were hired for a job and deep within the contract it stipulated "you shall not consume more than 10 grams of carbohydrates per day while on campus," and one day you were fired for eating a sandwich while for years all your coworkers were slamming Honey Buns and margaritas, you'd have to assume you're being targeted unfairly. And if as a result of the firing you forfeited six figures of stock you'd probably go to war for it with a good chance of winning.

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Stupid defense that will never work.

by Coaxkez, Tuesday, February 25, 2025, 02:05 (18 days ago) @ Schooly D

It makes sense that you’d try it, but having a good chance of winning seems so stupid to me. Companies aren’t allowed to improve?

Does that still apply if you were the first firing in a new enforcement crackdown that also impacted other employees?

Does that still apply if you were the worst of the bunch?

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Stupid defense that will never work.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Tuesday, February 25, 2025, 09:26 (18 days ago) @ Coaxkez

It makes sense that you’d try it, but having a good chance of winning seems so stupid to me. Companies aren’t allowed to improve?

Does that still apply if you were the first firing in a new enforcement crackdown that also impacted other employees?

Does that still apply if you were the worst of the bunch?

Nothing that I'm about to say should be interpreted as a defense of anyone. Corporations routinely have employees sign off on new or revised policies. That's a marker. As long as the company can say, after this date, none of this behavior by anyone was tolerated, the unfairness argument goes away.

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Stupid defense that will never work.

by Coaxkez, Thursday, March 06, 2025, 09:02 (9 days ago) @ Kermit
edited by Coaxkez, Thursday, March 06, 2025, 09:16

Does it, though?

Cody and Schooly are saying that the legal argument can be made that enforcement was unfair as long as the ex-employee is able to demonstrate in court that his peers who engaged in the same conduct and violated the same policies were not penalized. How would the signing of a document change that premise?

Again, in my view, poor enforcement doesn’t nullify what’s on the books. Employees are expected to behave a certain way and the company is well within their rights to terminate anyone who is unable or unwilling to do that.

Schooly said previously:

You're correct, this is a clear indication that you're not a lawyer. His case isn't "I never did X, Y, or Z," it's that his termination was unfair or illegitimate.

I realize that, but what I was attempting to say is that I don't understand how selective enforcement can be used to argue unfair or illegitimate termination. Companies are not perfect. There's no way they can monitor employee behavior perfectly without any oversight gaps, which mean there's no way they can enforce their policies uniformly. So even if Barrett is able to demonstrate that "everyone else was doing it", how does that help his case? That does not at all mean that he wasn't doing it -- which, to me, is the only thing that seems relevant here.

In order to prove active targeting, would he not need to provide evidence to support the claim? For example, texts between executives talking about how much they'd love to ice him out of the organization?

It just seems like his argument is inferring way too much about Bungie's motive. Selective enforcement can easily be explained as a consequence of poor monitoring... or perhaps Barrett's conduct was simply more pervasive than that of his peers. There are dozens of alternative explanations.

Lawyers are so annoying.

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Stupid defense that will never work.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, March 07, 2025, 00:04 (8 days ago) @ Coaxkez
edited by Cody Miller, Friday, March 07, 2025, 00:07

I realize that, but what I was attempting to say is that I don't understand how selective enforcement can be used to argue unfair or illegitimate termination.

He gets to keep the stock if he were fired without cause. He was fired with cause, so he could not keep it. He wants to keep it. So he wants to poke a hole in the 'for cause' part of his firing.

The first argument is that he never actually violated any policies, and thus there is no grounds for a for cause firing.

The second argument is that even if he did violate the policies, his conduct was not out of place given so many others at Bungie were doing it who weren't fired. This means that they specifically singled him out because they didn't want him to keep the stock. That would mean they weren't operating in a manner of fair dealing.

I mean, if 50 million dollars were on the line wouldn't you make every argument you could that had any chance at all of winning the case?

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Stupid defense that will never work.

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Friday, March 07, 2025, 16:48 (8 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I mean, if 50 million dollars were on the line wouldn't you make every argument you could that had any chance at all of winning the case?

I probably wouldn't have been an asshole in the first place...

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Stupid defense that will never work.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Saturday, March 08, 2025, 13:51 (7 days ago) @ Coaxkez
edited by Kermit, Saturday, March 08, 2025, 13:54

Nothing that I'm about to say should be interpreted as a defense of anyone. Corporations routinely have employees sign off on new or revised policies. That's a marker. As long as the company can say, after this date, none of this behavior by anyone was tolerated, the unfairness argument goes away.

Does it, though?

Cody and Schooly are saying that the legal argument can be made that enforcement was unfair as long as the ex-employee is able to demonstrate in court that his peers who engaged in the same conduct and violated the same policies were not penalized. How would the signing of a document change that premise?

Again, in my view, poor enforcement doesn’t nullify what’s on the books. Employees are expected to behave a certain way and the company is well within their rights to terminate anyone who is unable or unwilling to do that.

Schooly said previously:

You're correct, this is a clear indication that you're not a lawyer. His case isn't "I never did X, Y, or Z," it's that his termination was unfair or illegitimate.

I realize that, but what I was attempting to say is that I don't understand how selective enforcement can be used to argue unfair or illegitimate termination. Companies are not perfect. There's no way they can monitor employee behavior perfectly without any oversight gaps, which mean there's no way they can enforce their policies uniformly. So even if Barrett is able to demonstrate that "everyone else was doing it", how does that help his case? That does not at all mean that he wasn't doing it -- which, to me, is the only thing that seems relevant here.

In order to prove active targeting, would he not need to provide evidence to support the claim? For example, texts between executives talking about how much they'd love to ice him out of the organization?

No, I think he'd have to prove they knew others were doing it and did nothing.

It just seems like his argument is inferring way too much about Bungie's motive. Selective enforcement can easily be explained as a consequence of poor monitoring... or perhaps Barrett's conduct was simply more pervasive than that of his peers. There are dozens of alternative explanations.

Lawyers are so annoying.

A key phrase in what I said above was "after this date." Often, the motivation for updating policies is to make clear what they will fire you for, have you sign it, and THEN, the next time you engage in that behavior, fire you. Think of it like terms and conditions, another thing people sign without really reading. I don't think it's uncommon for this to be in preparation for firing certain people. Other people might even be given a (verbal, undocumented) heads up to knock off such behavior because they are not the target. Yes, that's unfair, but this is all block and tackle to make the charge of unfair treatment unprovable in a suit.

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