Cyberpunk releases unplayable.

Fake news.

I played it on release all the way to the end on PS4 and it was fine.

Legit? You’re lucky as hell. My PC version (and the Xbox version I tried after) were no goes. But ethics and great management (and smart business) provided refunds. Got it back after they fixed it up, and it’s such an amazing game. Can’t wait for the sequel!

All of that can easily be disregarded by the simple sentiment that Halo fans are fucking morons, in so much as any sufficiently large group of people is stupid.

You're definitely not wrong. The online sentiment backs 343 being removed from Halo, but they aren't thrilled with Activision being the alternative. It's the majority of gamers who aren't online where the real fun is at in this whole equation.

I don't think 343 ever really nailed it, but their games have largely been fine, even good.

Hard disagree, but I'm glad you got some enjoyment with their stuff.

The sentiment around their games isn't really that different from that around the Bungie games. Lots of folks hated the Arbiter and Halo 2 and the non-ending. Lots more hated Reach and its retcons and bloom and whatever else.

People would think the exact same thing about Bungie as they do about 343 if Bungie had kept making Halo. Hell, the opposing reactions to everything that ever happened in Destiny proves that. Halo would have never maintained the massive popularity it enjoyed during its peak all these years later. Nothing ever has. Bungie never had to deal with the scourge of dipshit youtubers bitching about literally anything and everything during their Halo days, either.

Circling back to the majority of gamers who aren't online. Halo 4 lost 80% of its population in 3 months, H5 didn't do well, and Infinite was also a disaster. I feel awful for the devs, because management at 343 (and Xbox) sure did a great job of blasting Halo into oblivion. Like I said in my other post, there's a reason Microsoft ended 343. For 15 or so years, they have been found quite lacking. And the same consequences for being found quite lacking and mismanagement has happened with Bungie (their management now basically entirely removed).

I'm with Kermit, though. I can't fathom just never letting it go.

I never think about 343 until they get brought up. I'm too busy having fun playing things like Destiny, Marathon, Cyberpunk, or countless Nintendo titles. I gave 343 plenty of chances, even after MCC. Hell, I even came here and shouted their praises for fixing MCC and told people they should buy and play it. I give credit where credit is due, even with a company like 343. And they aren't due much credit for almost everything they've released, imo.

And speaking of letting go, the way I ended my first post was about how ABSOLUTELY UP we all are with Destiny, Marathon, and Halo. It's easy to let a 343 go when a 343 is no more! The future is BRIGHT (though Marathon's is still in peril, but all signs point to us having at least another year of it for them to turn things around). The Destiny community, and everyone I know who still plays it, are on cloud nine right now. Bringing back the vaulted content + future new content?? This game was done like three months ago, and now check it out! The people who enjoy Marathon and can't wait for season 3 are very excited. And Halo finally has a fresh chance at a new direction and vision (and we can all hope better management). Times are good. Rejoice, because I sure am across the board with Bungie and Halo.

As for the news--I can't say I have so much of an opinion, either way. I mostly liked the 343 games, but I'm also eager to see someone else get a crack at it, just because I think that's neat. I don't particularly have high hopes, just because, at this point, I genuinely don't know what the hell you would do with Halo at this point. I'm not sure it's possible to make a Halo game that will garner the positive reception they want. You'll have people claiming it's just a bad copy of what it used to be, or you'll have people bitching that it's not faithful enough to Halo.

I'm interested to see what they make of it, though.

Battle royale Halo. Also, why not go in a different direction from Master Chief and tell new stories? Maybe even smaller scale like ODST that could be highly praised and also include some amazing multiplayer. Who knows. The sky's the limit! And maybe it'll come crashing down. Maybe Halo really is done for, 343 or no 343. But at least we have a chance to find out. That excites me.

I don't think 343 ever really nailed it, but their games have largely been fine, even good.

Have you considered this is because Bungie took the Halo formula as far as it could go?

As you say, not even Bungie could do better.

Gameplay might have been fine, but 343 came right out of the gate p*ssing all over everything. Retconning the forerunners to be a separate race (after Halo 3 and Contact Harvest clearly state that Humans are Forerunners), redesigning the covenant to look like bad jurassic world mutants, and then not telling a coherent story throughout the trilogy. Halo 5 just drops Halo 4's story. Also, Halo 5 was a huge bait and switch with the awesome #huntthetruth campaign, that doesn't really tie into anything. And then the created war that was started in 5 and teased in Halo wars 2 is settled off-screen, only to have Infinite tease a threat worse than the flood.

I was disappointed in Halo 2's ending, not b/c it was terrible, but because Halo 2 was amazing and the ending was abrupt. I played the hell out of the OG trilogy (and Reach/ODST) campaigns, I have only ever played through the 343 games once (though i have played a fair bit of multiplayer).

I think a lot of the retcons could have been forgiven if they would have committed to a storyline and saw it through. The 343 trilogy is a lot like a "baddie of the week" cop show, where each episode is directed by someone else, and they don't really tie into each other

Halo would have to have such a massive drop in quality for me to not immediately buy and play a new one, just because I’d have to know for myself.

They could have been cranking out a Halo game every two years instead of completely fucking around like they have, and I honestly think they’d be in a much stronger position than they are now.

2011 - Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary
2012 - Halo 4
2013 - Halo: Spartan Assault
2014 - Halo: The Master Chief Collection
2015 - Halo: Spartan Strike
2015 - Halo 5: Guardians

343i did that, and some might argue the drop in quality was massive and perhaps indicative that the studio just didn't have the ability to build themselves a stronger position.

I think there is something to this. I won't paint with a broad brush because I know that there were people at 343 who wanted to create meaningful experiences, but creating a game that works on that level is the product of a company culture and a defined vision. Those who won the arguments in the day-to-day struggles that are inherent in software development weren't the people with their eyes on the "meaningful experience" prize, I don't think.

Think of it this way.

You're a screenwriter. The studio says "Write us a Captain Awesome movie. The villain has to be Doctor Horrible. PG-13 so we can make toys. Oh, and you have 12 weeks for the first draft."

You're a screenwriter. You get an amazing idea for a story on a topic you have a lot of investment and interest in. You pour that passion into your screenplay, and wrie whatever you want.

Which do you think will end up being the superior 'product'?

Depends on the talent of the screenwriter. If you're talking as if this was the same screenwriter in both scenarios, probably the second, but it still depends on talent. Constraint is often a great thing for creativity, and I think it's possible to create something great that's also commercial.