GameInformer reports Destiny will have ADS (Aim Down Sights)

Credit to HiredNoobs on NeoGAF: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=49098603&postcount=6966

If this is true, I will be quite sad.

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It will be a telling development, if true. I find it a little hard to believe, though. In what context? Tattered, dilapidated billboards hawking Mtn Dew Game Fuel?

Ulgh.

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I think that's what he's talking about at least.

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Is it in a print edition? GI's website has no article with such claims, or new artwork.

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I hope it still has a dedicated grenade/ordinance button AND keep my RB action, though

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Googled "bungie destiny ironsights" and came across this. Ironsights are mentioned a couple paragraphs in.

Not sure how I feel about this. The mechanic itself I am okay with in other games that feature it. Maybe I was thinking that Destiny, as far as it's game mechanics (particularly shooting), would feel similar to Halo, and I was looking forward to that. Ah well, we shall see.

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Not sure how I feel about this. The mechanic itself I am okay with in other games that feature it. Maybe I was thinking that Destiny, as far as it's game mechanics (particularly shooting), would feel similar to Halo, and I was looking forward to that. Ah well, we shall see.

It could still feel much like Halo, and that's the vibe I get from the quick glimpses we've seen of characters running. But that's just me guessing and being hopeful, I suppose. Aiming down sights itself, though, can be a pretty variable mechanic.

It could function much like it does in CoD, in which it's almost always the way to go for a kill. Most people would aim down the sight, even if for the briefest of bursts, unless someone was pressed almost right against you. You're shooting blind otherwise.

That's the opposite of what I'm hoping for.

I'm hoping that it'd function like a level of zoom in Halo. If we think of scoped weapons like the DMR, but without the scope itself? Or weapons in Halo that have no scope at all. Now with iron sights. It'd be useful to have that tiny extra zoom for closing in on the occasional kill, though not all the time, as it doesn't quite mix with running and gunning if there's heavy emphasis.

In Halo, you'd often rather not zoom with the DMR or other scoped guns, and here maybe we'd rather have the ability to occasionally look down the sights for that extra tiny bit of accuracy, while otherwise freely firing from the hip with great success.

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great success.

[image]

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Googled "bungie destiny ironsights" and came across this. Ironsights are mentioned a couple paragraphs in.

Not sure how I feel about this. The mechanic itself I am okay with in other games that feature it. Maybe I was thinking that Destiny, as far as it's game mechanics (particularly shooting), would feel similar to Halo, and I was looking forward to that. Ah well, we shall see.

Personally, I am quite all right with iron sights.

Also, I think it's safe to assume that you'll be able to get different optics for your guns as well, lending itself to that "Halo feel" of scoping in, if you choose a scope.

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Personally, I am quite all right with iron sights.

Also, I think it's safe to assume that you'll be able to get different optics for your guns as well, lending itself to that "Halo feel" of scoping in, if you choose a scope.

I'm the same. I actually prefer iron sights. To me it's more immersive than Halo's HUD.

I don't want Destiny to be Halo gameplay set in another universe. I want it to be it's own style.

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I don't want Destiny to be Halo gameplay set in another universe. I want it to be it's own style.

So long as it's fun I'm all for this, but Halo 4 has shown me that even remarkably similar styles of gunplay can result in very different feels of game (although I suppose there's an argument to be made for Halo 4 not actually being that similar to its predecessors).

When we look at the modern, successful FPS landscape, there are a few primary subdivisions: the Call of Duty-style ‘military realism’ shooter, using iron sights and relatively few, well-placed shots to despatch enemies (but there's a lot of them — see also: Killzone, Crysis etc.). Then there's the Halo-style (not necessarily, but often) sci-fi shooter, with lots of kinds of weapons with different effects, enemies that not only behave in wildly different ways, but take very different amounts/types of damage to kill — I'd include games like Half-Life 2 in this genre.

The ‘realism’ shooter is far less interesting to me — it's a lot easier to experience gamer fatigue when you're only ever shooting (say) humans. Most of the above try to mix things up a bit with other styles of gameplay, be they vehicles or whatever, but ultimately the experience of gunplay is more or less the same. Halo on the other hand (to varying degrees) was able to mix up the shooter sections too, thanks to the variety of enemy types. I don't think whether a weapon uses iron sights or an overlaid HUD for zoomed firing ultimately makes that big a difference on the gameplay — what matters is the variety of encounters.

I'd say that with the massive number of locations and enemies revealed already, Bungie is heading in the same direction again, but with the additional layer of variety that class-based player abilities provides. Hazarding a guess, I'd say that the Titan class will play most like Master Chief; that way if you enjoyed that the most, you're covered. For those who want to try something different, the other classes will give you other options.

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yeah except destiny has nothing to do with halo and people should stop thinking it does.

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Woah there man. I'm not in anyway expecting a Halo copycat. I'm excited for a brand new story, brand new universe, and the breaking of new ground! But as far as how Destiny feels as a shooter, I was hoping for a similar feel to Halo, because no other shooter has really felt quite right to me, and I'm not sure if ADS will affect that feeling or not. I'm not saying I don't want the mechanic in the game; if Bungie thinks it works best, then I trust them and I'm all for it.

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I'm not sure how to feel about it without some sort of gameplay footage. I'm not a fan of ADS, but we'll see I suppose.

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At least now we know how they are going to pay for the game. And now I can say I will never buy it. Seriously, ads on the dashboard are bad enough I don't want to see them in game too. I hope this is wrong.

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At least now we know how they are going to pay for the game. And now I can say I will never buy it. Seriously, ads on the dashboard are bad enough I don't want to see them in game too. I hope this is wrong.

If you'd read any other part of this thread you'd know that you were.

ADS = Aim Down Sights

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My bad.

Why would anybody have a serious problem with sight aiming? Really curious here.

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I think it is the things that usually follow ADS that people don't like much.
For example, FPS games with ADS usually have very low-health (but regenerating) enemies, so that a single burst of sustained fire can easily kill the enemy (which can be somewhat easily through ADS), but not firing wildly at it from afar (such as from the hip).

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It's the implied mechanics that go along with it. In particular, in games that do implement that style of aiming, weapons typically fire very inaccurately when you're not using the sights and accuracy increases when using the sights. You have to aim (and, typically, consequently slow down) if you're planning to hit a target more than a few feet away with any real concentration of fire. Contrast that with Halo, where the AR for example only has 1 level of zoom/accuracy.* If you have an AR equipped, it is only ever going to be that accurate. And even weapons which do have scopes don't really get more accurate (at least, not noticably). All the zoom does is magnify your target and decrease aim sensitivity to let you line up more precisely. The point being that in Halo you can get full accuracy while still moving full speed. Imagine a DMR shootout at medium range with both players strafing back and forth. That is par for the course in Halo, but it would only happen in ADS shooters if both players were panicking.

*Yes, I'm aware you can burst fire. That's not really relevant to the ADS distinction though.

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In a general global way, how does this change things from say, Halo play? Is there a consensus? I think the really good Halo players would say they love the ability to run and jump and dodge while still being able to shoot somewhat effectively.

Is that something incompatible with iron sights? In games that use iron sights, is shooting "from the hip" relatively ineffective?

I have no real experience, just wondering why you love it?

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In a general global way, how does this change things from say, Halo play? Is there a consensus? I think the really good Halo players would say they love the ability to run and jump and dodge while still being able to shoot somewhat effectively.

I agree. I prefer a Halo-style shooter. I don't hate ADS, but it's not what I love, if that makes sense.

Is that something incompatible with iron sights? In games that use iron sights, is shooting "from the hip" relatively ineffective?

Yes, hip-firing typically is much less accurate in those games. As far as being incompatible, I suppose you could make a game with ADS, and then have the hip-firing be just as accurate as when the player's zoomed in. But if you examine it, all that really is is Halo-style aiming, except you have a picture of a close-up gun on the screen instead of a scope HUD. As I alluded to here, it's more about the differences between zoomed and unzoomed weapon behavior than about the appearance of looking down sights.

I have no real experience, just wondering why you love it?

*shrug*

I guess some consider it more realistic (and they're right). But I struggle to understand why more realism would be inherently more fun (outside of driving games). Just a matter of personal taste, I suppose.

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In a general global way, how does this change things from say, Halo play? Is there a consensus? I think the really good Halo players would say they love the ability to run and jump and dodge while still being able to shoot somewhat effectively.

It doesn't necessarily change things entirely, as Borderlands gameplay, while having ADS (on guns that allow it, anyway), does not really impede your ability to run and gun. Other games (like CoD) restrict your player speed greatly when aiming (though there are perks and attachments that nullify this, which can actually negatively affect your enjoyment of the style)...

I agree. I prefer a Halo-style shooter. I don't hate ADS, but it's not what I love, if that makes sense.

I love ADS, but think that for competitive, skill-based combat like that found in Halo, where a single encounter can last longer than five seconds due to shields and health, ADS tends to NOT be enjoyable, since you have to reduce your movement speed for so long in a single encounter. See Crysis 3 for an example of why ADS in this style is not fun.

Is that something incompatible with iron sights? In games that use iron sights, is shooting "from the hip" relatively ineffective?

For the most part, it's much less accurate, with a large spread that grows exponentially. Aiming down the sites almost completely eliminates the spread, at the cost of making yourself a better target. In games like CoD, where being exposed for a second can guarantee your death, this provides a very good system of checks and balances.

Borderlands differs from this in that a weapon is good whether you're aiming down the sights or not. The difference is precision and range rather than general effectiveness.

it's more about the differences between zoomed and unzoomed weapon behavior than about the appearance of looking down sights.

Stabbim nailed it...

But I struggle to understand why more realism would be inherently more fun (outside of driving games). Just a matter of personal taste, I suppose.

I guess the more in-the-boots you feel with your character, the more visceral the game feels, making your successes more satisfying... I dunno.

A lot of the Destiny footage is very reminiscent of Borderlands, which I really hope it's like.

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It doesn't necessarily change things entirely, as Borderlands gameplay, while having ADS (on guns that allow it, anyway), does not really impede your ability to run and gun.

Speaking of which, have you played Borderlands 2? I'm trying to decide between it and BioShock Infinite...

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Speaking of which, have you played Borderlands 2? I'm trying to decide between it and BioShock Infinite...

I got Borderlands 2 four days ago (birthday present!), so I can't give an honest opinion on it (I love Bordelands 1 though) as a whole. It's definitely fun, though, and a blast to play with friends.

But unless you plan to do a lot of co-op, Bioshock Infinite definitely looks like it'll be the superior game to get...

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In a general global way, how does this change things from say, Halo play? Is there a consensus? I think the really good Halo players would say they love the ability to run and jump and dodge while still being able to shoot somewhat effectively.

Well, you just about hit the nail on the head. I don't really care for iron sights because typically, to make them worth using, developers make hip aiming very inaccurate. Then they restrict movement while aiming down the sights.

To be clear, I love uberfoop's comment, not run or gun itself.

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I'm off work sick at the moment, so I took the opportunity to finish Modern Warfare 3 today, which for some reason I'd abandoned around the 40% mark. I finished playing through Halo 3 yesterday, so it didn't take long for me to see why I'd left it unfinished. Forcing players in an FPS to choose between accurate shooting and moving around (particularly when combined with the CoD series’ obnoxious mechanic of requiring the player to keep moving forwards in order to make progress, not to kill the hostiles) just isn't anywhere near as much fun. There may be a variety of ways to approach a given encounter, but by reducing the scope of the player's toolbox (which is what use iron sights or you won't hit anything does), the number of viable strategies shrinks dramatically.

What made the Halo series at its best most fun was the variety in enemy AI and weapons wielded, combined with your own varied weapons and the landscape of a given encounter. These things together made for a very large number of viable strategies, of which any number could be enormous fun.

I'm hoping that by using iron sights in Destiny, Bungie is simply expanding the toolbox further — and this may well be necessary to support class-based play. Imagine that the Hunter class specialises in the use of scoped weapons, and other classes simply can't use them — it would therefore be necessary to somehow balance out such a class, say reducing their mobility whilst shooting, in order for them not to be as powerful on the move as the more general-purpose Titan class. I could be miles off-target with that speculation, but that's just one way they might incorporate iron sights without restricting the overall toolbox available to players.

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Honestly I won't have a problem with iron sights at all as long as from the hip firing works moderately well. Take Battlefield for example. Light machine guns can be fired from the hip and be quite deadly. In fact when I have certain attachments on the gun the only time I use the iron sights/scope is when I want to shoot someone farther away. If the guns functioned something like that in Destiny I would have no problem. Imagine for example if the assault rifle functioned like it does in Halo but with the added possibility being that you could pull it up to your face and fire a little bit farther with similar accuracy. It wouldn't break the present game but it would make the assault rifle a little bit more useful (especially compared to Halo 1, geez!)

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I'll wait for a confirmation, but I can't say I'm too upset over this. This isn't Halo.

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I love how you mention a GI article report, and then link to another forum where a guy posted literally the same thing, again with no external source.

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Googled "bungie destiny ironsights" and came across this. Not a GI article, but ironsights are mentioned nonetheless.

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I don't think we can link to the GameInformer article, I believe it is subscribers only. From reading the article myself I can tell you that they are assuming it does from looking at a character externally, not from 1st person perspective, so I would not say it's confirmed. Basically they said they saw a character pull a gun up to their face.

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I figured you couldn't link directly to the GI article, I just found it humorous how "GI article" was the subject, and the link just went to a NeoGaf post that said the same thing.

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I figured you couldn't link directly to the GI article, I just found it humorous how "GI article" was the subject, and the link just went to a NeoGaf post that said the same thing.

Haha, my thoughts too. I never found any GI info regarding this (I didn't look very hard) but I came across the shacknews article, so I figured I'd share it on this thread.

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Harumph. It's hard to draw any conclusions from that unless we know whether the gun had a scope on it.

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I think that aim down sights is a non-issue. Destiny is an entirely new franchise, which will mean an entirely new set of gameplay mechanics, the mechanics don't need to be consistent with Halo.

However, I would be a little disappointed to see iron sights in the game, a red dot-like optic should be used at the very least. It is the future after all, future gun technology using iron sights would be a joke.

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However, I would be a little disappointed to see iron sights in the game, a red dot-like optic should be used at the very least. It is the future after all, future gun technology using iron sights would be a joke.

I want a flashlight that can stay on longer than 30 seconds. It is the future after all.

Speaking of flashlights, I also hope we get some dark underground facilities and abandoned ships to explore.

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I was promised flying cars!

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…this is how I read this topic ever time I see it.

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Maybe that's the new infection gametype.

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Maybe that's the new infection gametype.

Now that's something I could... wait for it... get behind!

huehuehue :}

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Hopefully I'm just misinterpreting things, but I don't like the direction this branch of the thread has been going.

Let's get back on topic, please.

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I meant no offense. I just really like puns is all.

My apologies.

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A lot of shooters have ADS... Call of Duty, Battlefield, Gears of War (in 3rd person), Fallout.

The list keeps going.

Not only wouldn't be surprised, I wouldn't really care. I am definitely used to Halo's non-ADS approach, but I played enough games with ADS that I can get used to whatever method of aiming Bungie chooses to use.

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I think a lot of players are confused about what ADS actually means, much like how many people confuse the terms ‘clip’ and ‘magazine’. Halo does have several elements of ADS in its gameplay however it is heavily focused on arcade-style shooting. Allow me to explain.

Aiming Down Sights (ADS) describes a game mechanic where the player alters the function of his or her weapon by utilizing the sights of their weapon. Halo features ADS mechanics with their sniper weapons, evidenced by the fact that they feature a ‘zoom’ or ‘scope-in’ option. However Halo also features a reticule fixed to the center of the screen which governs both ADS and non-ADS weapons. This fixed-reticule system, a hallmark of arcade-style game play, allows the user to fire weapons from the hip without aiming.

Iron-sights have nothing to do with the ADS mechanic. Iron-sights are affixed to all weapons so that they may remain effective when the optics go down or when adjusting the optics themselves. Modern military shooters such as CoD are heavily affiliated with iron-sights because all weapons have them.
As far as Destiny goes, it would appear that their style of gunplay takes the arcade-style of Halo and adds layers of complexity via increased ADS mechanics available through weapon attachments. Sniper rifle scopes have been shown as well as what appeared to be a holographic sight of some type; this would imply that the ability to add an ADS feature to a weapon. The fixed-reticule system also appears to be making a comeback as it appears briefly in the ViDoc.

On Iron-sights: While having iron sights is essentially the same as having a scope on the DMR, it changes the style of gameplay only by implication. Iron-sights are a baseline system present on all guns; if you’re going to include them, all weapons are able to have reasonably accurate fire which appears to be something Bungie is against. I do not think iron-sights will appear in Destiny based upon the brief view of combat seen in the ViDoc as well as the fact the level of design is VERY Halo-esque. The massive, open environments seen in the “Zombie” level would be a complete death-trap if every weapon was allowed to utilize its iron-sights.
It is my OPINION that weapons will feature a fixed-reticule at all times and no weapon will have iron-sights(even though it makes no sense). From this point, if a player would like to add sights to their weapon, they may do so, allowing for the weapon to feature both fixed-reticule and ADS mechanics. I do expect, however, that a “scope-in” delay will be featured as a stat for all sights.

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This fixed-reticule system, a hallmark of arcade-style game play, allows the user to fire weapons from the hip without aiming.

Huh????? Without aiming? :) care to play a 1v1 match with me in any arcade style game (Quake, UT, Halo)? I pride myself on having a decent aim. I would argue that the COD style of gunplay mechanics requires less aiming skill. There is more spread and randomness. Also, the instant you start getting a bullet hitting you the reticule jumps all over the screen.

The fixed-reticule system also appears to be making a comeback as it appears briefly in the ViDoc.

I need to watch the video again. I sure hope a fixed-reticule system is back. I want my shots to go exactly where I am aiming and intending them to be shot at.

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This fixed-reticule system, a hallmark of arcade-style game play, allows the user to fire weapons from the hip without aiming.

Huh????? Without aiming? :) care to play a 1v1 match with me in any arcade style game (Quake, UT, Halo)? I pride myself on having a decent aim. I would argue that the COD style of gunplay mechanics requires less aiming skill. There is more spread and randomness. Also, the instant you start getting a bullet hitting you the reticule jumps all over the screen.

He meant without having to use an "aim" button to look down the sights. He wasn't suggesting that you don't have to point the reticule at the correct place. Sheesh.

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Doesn't bother me one bit. ADS isn't bad. For some games it works and for others it doesn't. It all depends on if the game is designed for it. Halo for example wasn't. If this one is then I think it will be fine.

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If Destiny is going to have long encounters in the PVE environment (raids, etc.) it better be more arcade style than COD-esque

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GameInformer reports Destiny will have ADS (Aim Down Sights)