BMA / Destiny interactions

I'm looking forward to seeing how Bungie makes the Bungie Mobile App a part of the Destiny experience. Granted, as is the case for many others, my wish list for such an experience is sure to exceed the reality. What little chatter I've seen about it tends to all lean in the same direction: People want to have an actual impact to gameplay. Notifications about new content are nice, and messaging between players to organize raids is helpful, but opening up new areas or triggering ingame events through BMA participation are the kinds of things I'm hoping for, and would keep me invested in the world over the long term.

In games like Chromehounds (there are others but none come to mind), there were conquest modes that would affect what weapons and parts were available for purchase depending on what territories were held by the player's faction. Similar dynamics could easily be put in play by leveraging the mobile app. Make weapon/item caches appear based on community performance in the mobile space. If loot drops as we currently know them are part of the deal, make harder/rarer enemies appear. It would have to be something all players benefit from, but aren't hurt by if they don't participate in.

There could be special areas that only allow a certain number of party members, but the number could change if mobile users fulfilled some task. Enemy force composition could change dramatically, much like was done in Mass Effect 3 MP, when weekly challenges started incorporating the worst baddies from different factions and throwing them at players. Say mobile users meet some goal and suddenly that super hard area where your raids have been failing over the last few nights is suddenly a lot easier; the baddies essentially have the Famine Skull active because (canonically) their supply lines were cut. It would go a long way towards establishing the feeling of a living world.

Thoughts?

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Sure, it could be great! Just look at the interaction Bungie got the community to coordinate for the "arg." Imagine that during big name missions mobile players could coordinate to "hack the bases defenses" to disable a few automated defense guns, or "scan for enemies" to provide in game players radar / motion tracker / whatever support in mission areas that might normally have it jammed in one way or the other.

So far I don't think Bungie has signaled that they are heading in that direction, but then there's so much we don't know. I wouldn't rule it out just yet either.

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Let's arbitrarily restrict certain game functions to certain additional and completely unnecessary hardware. While we're at it, why don't we require that you plug a Kinect into your phone to use these features, because this stuff just wouldn't feel right if you didn't manage it with Kinect voice commands on a platform that already has sound inputs.

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You could certainly choose to look at it that way. Or you could look at it as a method for a true cross-platform experience without actually having a live cross-platform gameplay session. Again, the idea is to enhance the game, not restrict functionality to a totally separate venue. Just imagine if all Destiny players, regardless of platform, experienced events in the game world together, truly impacting their own story in a joint effort. The same world is accessible to anyone, it would just be the BMA users that have an additional layer of agency that benefits everyone. It's an accessory, not a requirement. And the app is free. Are you suggesting Bingle shouldn't even try such a thing because some players feel it would be some kind of injustice?

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You could certainly choose to look at it that way. Or you could look at it as a method for a true cross-platform experience without actually having a live cross-platform gameplay session. Again, the idea is to enhance the game, not restrict functionality to a totally separate venue. Just imagine if all Destiny players, regardless of platform, experienced events in the game world together, truly impacting their own story in a joint effort. The same world is accessible to anyone, it would just be the BMA users that have an additional layer of agency that benefits everyone. It's an accessory, not a requirement. And the app is free. Are you suggesting Bingle shouldn't even try such a thing because some players feel it would be some kind of injustice?

~M

I'm not against this on principle.

Let's say I make a flight or space sim, and the game is obviously better with a joystick. Folks can play it with a mouse, but really they have the best experience and are encouraged to play with a joystick. Same thing with fighters and arcade like controllers. Sometimes you just need certain hardware to have the most fun.

So having a smartphone be such a piece of hardware? I guess based on principles there's nothing wrong with it, but it doesn't seem like something that directly affect the ability to play the game, and goes to being merely a cool additional thing. Like stats on bungie.net. Cool, but not necessary.

I, like you, wouldn't get all up in arms because the addition to the experience is going to be relatively minor, because if it was major any developer worth their salt would either incorporate the functionality directly in game, or they would flat out require it.

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I'm not against this on principle.

I'm not sure that I am, but the ways in which I can actually imagine it being implemented don't strike me as especially great. And the suggestions in this thread sort of exemplify that: if I'm playing through some awesome event in the game world, do I actually *want* some random non-present guy to cause a stage of the fight to not happen? Is it really all that awesome to break gameplay mechanics like radar so that someone can go fetch their phone and use it to repair the game?

Most of all, some of the things being suggested sound more than anything like minigamish things that really ought not require a separate platform. I might be more open to some of the stuff if the phone simply makes certain functionality accessible for people who don't have a console on hand as opposed to having that immediate gameplay-relevant functionality exclusively.

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I'm not against this on principle.

I'm not sure that I am, but the ways in which I can actually imagine it being implemented don't strike me as especially great. And the suggestions in this thread sort of exemplify that: if I'm playing through some awesome event in the game world, do I actually *want* some random non-present guy to cause a stage of the fight to not happen? Is it really all that awesome to break gameplay mechanics like radar so that someone can go fetch their phone and use it to repair the game?

Most of all, some of the things being suggested sound more than anything like minigamish things that really ought not require a separate platform. I might be more open to some of the stuff if the phone simply makes certain functionality accessible for people who don't have a console on hand as opposed to having that immediate gameplay-relevant functionality exclusively.

Well, part of the benefit would be a type of role play. If say you're hacking something, there's something to be said about actually holding your hack device in your hand, as opposed to seeing it depicted visually on screen (otherwise why even display it? By the same argument you may as well just put the plain puzzle task on screen instead of "pretending" you're looking at the device). Granted it's not the best example of an exclusively external accessory (that sort of thing could be done both in-game or in-palm) but the point remains - we 'pretend' a lot of things on-screen, so why not extend that experience (whether exclusively or not) to an actual physical accessory to enhance that experience even more?

That's one of the ways storytelling is evolving these days, breaking out of single-platform molds; partly as a way to keep things fresh and interesting, and partly just as a way to try new things :P. If it works, great; if not, oh well. There are many factors to take into consideration when considering a game mechanic like that though; demographic being huge, as well as exclusivity and player alienation. (obviously it's more appealing to people who are willing and/or capable of experiencing said methods; otherwise it can seem unfair to those who want to but can't) So who knows...

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Sheesh. Two off the top of my head ideas and blam… I'm with Claude Errera, why all the immediate bitterness?!

Back on topic:

Is it really all that awesome to break gameplay mechanics like radar so that someone can go fetch their phone and use it to repair the game?

Break the game? Excuse me? Who mentioned breaking the game? Radar jamming is part of Mass Effect, Halo 3, Reach, and Halo 4 just to name the games I'm more familiar with. Are they all broken? I started with Halo and Mass Effect features *jammed radar* and tried to progress it to involve more players. If including more people in non-traditional ways is breaking the game then we have an almost fundamental disagreement on games… and at the very least have a different (positive vs. negative) outlook on Destiny.

More positively, what if it WASN'T random people? What if it was friends helping you in your gameplay? What if it could be not just your friend list, but the third buddy in the room who has no TV screen to play on, but can still help participate in other ways? I'm loving this time of speculation, we know so little so the sky is the limit in imagining what could be!

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and at the very least have a different (positive vs. negative) outlook on Destiny.

No, just a different outlook on how those sorts of inclusions would actually be likely to work out in practice; no need to generalize. The first thing that came to mind with the radar issue was that it would wind up being, in effect, a situation where a feature in the game stops working and you "fix" it by pushing a few buttons on your phone. More of an inelegance than a way to solidly add to social gameplay. I see what you're getting at, though. It might work, but my fear is that it would have to be done extremely well to become a new big thing and not a hindrance.

I'm generally in agreement with Cody that it's unlikely to be big if it's not thoroughly integrated.

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Sure, anything if done badly will be bad. And yes, creating a meaningful mobile experience that integrates into a much bigger console experience is sure to be challenging. But it can be done. Our smartphones and tablets are surging in processing power and usability. I think it is more or less inevitable that somebody cracks this thing and gets some awesome multi platform coordinated gaming going. Why not Bungie?

Also, I am (playfully, pretend) insulted that you'd think I'd suggest the done badly version of an idea. :p

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Let's say I make a flight or space sim, and the game is obviously better with a joystick. Folks can play it with a mouse, but really they have the best experience and are encouraged to play with a joystick. Same thing with fighters and arcade like controllers. Sometimes you just need certain hardware to have the most fun.

So having a smartphone be such a piece of hardware? I guess based on principles there's nothing wrong with it, but it doesn't seem like something that directly affect the ability to play the game, and goes to being merely a cool additional thing. Like stats on bungie.net. Cool, but not necessary.

Yep. It seems like it should be possible to get a benefit out of a second screen without requiring it.

And now is definitely the time to start trying the concept out and honing it. Someday a point will come where everyone* will have a smartphone - we're not there yet, but we ARE at a point where market penetration is large enough to test these concepts at scale.

* Maybe not literally everyone, but everyone in a developed enough part of the world - and we're talking about current/next-generation console games here after all. I think it's fair to assume that most people playing Destiny online are also people who have access to cellular phone technology.

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You could certainly choose to look at it that way. Or you could look at it as a method for a true cross-platform experience without actually having a live cross-platform gameplay session. Again, the idea is to enhance the game, not restrict functionality to a totally separate venue. Just imagine if all Destiny players, regardless of platform, experienced events in the game world together, truly impacting their own story in a joint effort. The same world is accessible to anyone, it would just be the BMA users that have an additional layer of agency that benefits everyone. It's an accessory, not a requirement. And the app is free. Are you suggesting Bingle shouldn't even try such a thing because some players feel it would be some kind of injustice?

I think the problem that some people (not including myself) think that if there is a "game" (let's call this purchase of the 'entity') then ALL elements associated with the entity should be contained in that single purchase and/or single platform; like, you buy "the game" and you then should have rights to all content henceforth associated with the purchase of that entity (unless sufficiently self-supporting, or something, like an expansion pack). eg, if it's on a CD, then all content should be available and unlocked without further purchase... or in this case, if the "game" has linked/playable content not on the purchased platform, then it should be accessible by default or just not exist... that the idea of providing content along with a purchase which isn't immediately accessible (through a paywall or hardware requirement) is somehow purposefully crippling the game.

Or you know, something like that*... but I digress

I'd love the idea of having related gameplay content extend to another platform. It shouldn't be required to complete the initial game or to have the full intended experience on the original platform, but most definitely it would be a 'value added' accessory to the gameplay for those people who can access it or those who desire it enough to buy what's necessary in order to do so. I think it'd be really cool to have, say, missions that are available for those who've linked their mobile device to their profile, or even live events for such people where they team together, as per your comment, to complete a task co-operatively.

Heck, if there are multiple accessories, you could have some epic enormous event where all these various player-groups having various capabilities work together to accomplish a major goal. Like Kinect-enabled players working with smartphone-enabled players at home, and with smartphone/gps-enabled players meeting at some real world location at a specific time, and...and...

It's all pipe dream though, and the liklihood of it happening (at least at that scale) is slim to none I'd wager. Mainly because it could feel like it's taking people "away" from the game (is "Destiny" just a video game? or is it by nature an experience that also happens away from the platform's screen in the living room or desktop PC?)

*shrug*

I definitely digress... on the simplest, smallest scale, having smartphone 'second screen' required missions would be pretty cool, especially if somehow those missions also provide rewards for players without that capability... or require those with and without to work together. The argument about balance and fairness is still a good one in this context, I think.

* I'm not calling anyone out, just being cynical about some of the general opinions expressed in the forums recently :P

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Heck, if there are multiple accessories, you could have some epic enormous event where all these various player-groups having various capabilities work together to accomplish a major goal. Like Kinect-enabled players working with smartphone-enabled players at home, and with smartphone/gps-enabled players meeting at some real world location at a specific time, and...and...

It's all pipe dream though, and the liklihood of it happening (at least at that scale) is slim to none I'd wager. Mainly because it could feel like it's taking people "away" from the game (is "Destiny" just a video game? or is it by nature an experience that also happens away from the platform's screen in the living room or desktop PC?)

*shrug*

I definitely digress... on the simplest, smallest scale, having smartphone 'second screen' required missions would be pretty cool, especially if somehow those missions also provide rewards for players without that capability... or require those with and without to work together. The argument about balance and fairness is still a good one in this context, I think.

* I'm not calling anyone out, just being cynical about some of the general opinions expressed in the forums recently :P

Honestly I don't think the ideas are as crazy as people think. With them pushing the mobile integration on day 1 of officially announcing the game I think they are planning to do something major. It could be as simple as if you friend is playing a mission you can point out a supply depot to get ammo/weapons or it could be as major as calling in an airstrike to help out a friend. Either way that is more than any game that I'm aware of has done and it would make me happy.

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Honestly I don't think the ideas are as crazy as people think. With them pushing the mobile integration on day 1 of officially announcing the game I think they are planning to do something major. It could be as simple as if you friend is playing a mission you can point out a supply depot to get ammo/weapons or it could be as major as calling in an airstrike to help out a friend. Either way that is more than any game that I'm aware of has done and it would make me happy.

Yeah, I'm definitely excited to see where they're going with it. I spend so much time on the go these days, I would be all over a mobile app that allows me to participate in the Destiny game world in some kind of meaningful way without dedicating a solid chunk of time to being home, sitting in front of my television. I think there are some really awesome ideas being tossed around.

I don't know if this is feasible, but what if you could use the mobile app to tap into an--upgradable--reconnaissance system on your spaceship (left in orbit around the planet) that allowed you to explore a planet's surface or remotely monitor a friend's real-time in-game position from a sort of fuzzy spy-satellite top-down perspective on your phone?

When activated, you'd get a full map view of the entire location with enemies highlighted. You could help your friends navigate an area, scope out cool shit, drop supplies, hack into enemy installations or--if your spaceship is well equipped--introduce hostile positions to the magic of orbital bombardment. Depending on the quality of your ship's systems, perhaps jamming devices could disrupt the quality of your reception and the full extent of your abilities until your friends eliminate the source of the disturbance on the ground. Eh?

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Yeah, I'm definitely excited to see where they're going with it. I spend so much time on the go these days, I would be all over a mobile app that allows me to participate in the Destiny game world in some kind of meaningful way without dedicating a solid chunk of time to being home, sitting in front of my television. I think there are some really awesome ideas being tossed around.

I don't know if this is feasible, but what if you could use the mobile app to tap into an--upgradable--reconnaissance system on your spaceship (left in orbit around the planet) that allowed you to explore a planet's surface or remotely monitor a friend's real-time in-game position from a sort of fuzzy spy-satellite top-down perspective on your phone?

When activated, you'd get a full map view of the entire location with enemies highlighted. You could help your friends navigate an area, scope out cool shit, drop supplies, hack into enemy installations or--if your spaceship is well equipped--introduce hostile positions to the magic of orbital bombardment. Depending on the quality of your ship's systems, perhaps jamming devices could disrupt the quality of your reception and the full extent of your abilities until your friends eliminate the source of the disturbance on the ground. Eh?

I definitely like the ideas, so lets take it to the even more infeasible. What if your buddy is playing and is in trouble and the app messages you and tells you. You have a few choices: you can jump in the game and help him, you can send in some supplies, you can try and bombard the enemies, or you can send your ship to pick him up. How cool would that be?

I'm sure it won't happen, but hey this is all speculation anyway :-D

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I definitely like the ideas, so lets take it to the even more infeasible. What if your buddy is playing and is in trouble and the app messages you and tells you. You have a few choices: you can jump in the game and help him, you can send in some supplies, you can try and bombard the enemies, or you can send your ship to pick him up. How cool would that be?

"Now, you too can be a deus ex machina! On the go, anytime, anywhere!" :3

Man. I like the pickup idea. There are some awesome possibilities there, for sure. I think getting the player's ship involved definitely adds an interesting angle. Depending on how you fit it out as far as weaponry, shuttle bays, recon equipment, etc. you could specialize in being the Han Solo mobile-app guy who remotely saves everyone's asses at the last minute.

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Let's arbitrarily restrict certain game functions to certain additional and completely unnecessary hardware. While we're at it, why don't we require that you plug a Kinect into your phone to use these features, because this stuff just wouldn't feel right if you didn't manage it with Kinect voice commands on a platform that already has sound inputs.

You realise, of course, that this could also apply to voice chat requiring a headset? It's also reminiscent of the objections to designing for HD/widescreen displays when the 360 first came out...

I play Mass Effect 3 a lot; it has an external iOS-platform minigame that influences the console's campaign playthrough, one that I (having no iOS devices) have never played. It sounds like an interesting minigame, but I don't feel particularly left out nor do I feel that players using it get an unfair advantage because of the way it was implemented. These things can be implemented well or poorly and it's the implementation, not the feature, that would concern me.

-- Steve's pretty confident that Bungie can pull this sort of thing off at least as well as Bioware did.

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ME3's app and minigame sucked. It was basically just a "click here to increase your readiness!" app. I don't think Bungie's will be that simple or that uninspired. The mere fact that it appears you will be able to edit your character already makes it better than the ME3 app.

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I'm one of the apparent minority who loved the hacking and bypassing minigames in ME2, so I took the complaints about "Galaxy at War" with a fairly large portion of sal; though as I haven't played it I'm open to the possibility that it is indeed underwhelming. I liked the idea, though, and wouldn't be disappointed in the least if something like the concept was implemented in Destiny.

-- Steve still thinks that the hacking minigame in Deus Ex: Human Revolution would make for a respectable stand-alone $1.99 phone game.

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I never played the one in ME2. The one in ME3 was just choosing an area and waiting for the "battle" to finish to increase your readiness.

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I never played the one in ME2. The one in ME3 was just choosing an area and waiting for the "battle" to finish to increase your readiness.

Sorry, miscommunication; I was referring to the in-game manner of hacking terminals (puzzle-piece matching) and bypassing locks (pair-finding) in ME2, that ME3 handled as "press 'A' and wait until the timer bar runs down". ME2's way let you convince yourself (if you wished) that your Shepard was actually hacking software or setting jumpers; ME3's was another reminder you were playing a game.

-- Steve liked the way Deus Ex: Human Revolution did terminal hacking and how Fallout 3 handled lockpicking for the same reason; F3's hacking was similarly immersive, but was too time consuming for him to enjoy as much as the others already mentioned.

PS: The stand-alone Android/iOS game, Mass Effect: Infiltrator, was the game I was thinking of.

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Yep. Whole lot of potential there. Re: force composition, What about dropping an artifact or beacon in enemy territory that calls in the Space Zombies to chew on the opposition a little before we make landfall? Or with respect to the hacking idea, opening the garages for the enemies' motor pool and raiding their vehicle stash? Lots could be done. The technology exists.

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Indeed.

Or what about basic scouting? We don't know how big the playspaces will be? What if there were a way to discover, and then warn your friends that an armor column was approaching from the East?

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Or what about basic scouting? We don't know how big the playspaces will be? What if there were a way to discover, and then warn your friends that an armor column was approaching from the East?

I think it would be cool if there was something like three or four mini-games, playable from the app. Maybe like a scouting/radar enhancement game, a door/supply crate hacking game, maybe something to do with mobility assistance, ect.

The idea I'm thinking is that player A is on his console shooting things up when all of the sudden player B, who is commuting home from work and playing on his phone, shows up. Player A is then told that they now have access to x drones and are prompted to select what kind of help they would like. Depending on the situation or preferences of player A the choice is made and the drone (player B on their phone) swoops off to the mini-game to help player A achieve their objective.

All the things that the drones can do are not vital to the game, but they could help keep every instance fresh.

I'm no huge fan of mobile gaming, just not my boat-floating cup of tea. But I do think it would be pretty awesome for this type of interaction (or something similar) to be incorporated into Destiny.

My Mom was the person to get me into gaming way back when I was but a little tyke. As time progressed our tastes in virtual worlds split up to the point where we almost never play the same games anymore. How cool would it be for me to be blasting away time-traveling spider pirate zombies from my console, while from states away she could happily be tap-tap-tapping on her beloved phone helping out in my game? All the cool, that's how much. ALL the cool.

Co-op, no matter it's flavor, is one of my favorite aspects of gaming and I personally would love to see a dynamic new way to implement it. And if anyone can do it I trust that Bungie can.

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I hadn't even been thinking so much along the lines of the Destiny player providing the mobile player things to do, but you're right, the interactions between the two could easily flow either way. Could be interesting. :)

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I think it would be cool to minigames that could lead to something random you could use during a friend's, or your own, game. Something like a supply drop, a motion detector thingy, a visormode powerup, or other kinds of somewhat negligible buffs.

I want the ability to send GrimBrother One a healthpack from my phone just to show that I was thinking about him. ;)

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So I'm looking at this thread, and I'm comparing the responses in it to the responses to similar threads in the early days of Halo's development. (By 'similar', I mean in style - threads that are "what if...?" in nature.)

And I'm amazed by the differences I see.

The starting posts are similar, in style; they're extrapolations, based on some tiny observed fact in the meager released content.

It's the responses that are different.

In the early days of Halo, if you read one of these, and it excited you, you jumped in with your own expansions on the original speculation - some of the ideas got pretty wild (and definitely out of the realm of 'feasible'). If it DIDN'T excite you... you passed by the thread.

Here, though... here, it seems like the first thing people do is try to find the negative implications in any speculation. And then talk about how the game is going to suck because this speculation can't possibly be done in any reasonable fashion.

I wish people would remember that none of these ideas are actually coming from Bungie - they're coming from the fanbase. It's speculation. If you read something someone suggests, and it doesn't do it for you... feel free to say so, if you have to, but then move on. Condemning the GAME because some random speculation by some fan doesn't do it for you does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING USEFUL for the community as a whole.

I long for the days when people weren't so bitter. :(

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Well, a lot of bad stuff has happened in the game industry these past 15 years, so it's only natural old timers get bitter/skeptical if they were caught in the crossfire. I, for one, enjoy having both sides of every point being discussed far more than if a single side is talked about.

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I long for the days when people weren't so bitter. :(

There's also a fine line between the impression of bitterness and being a realist :P

Personally, I hope for all this new and crazy stuff (even stuff I can't necessarily partake in myself, nor in some case desire to), but realistically it's harder to see it happening; almost as if failed experiments (along with the more apparent bitterness that can spread socially through the 'net these days) are causing more people to not even attempt to try things like this.

But the potential is definitely exciting! More experiments should be undertaken, it's the only way we can move forward and hone these types of experiences, to get better and better, and attractive to more people (if that's the creators' hope, as opposed to focusing quality on a smaller niche audience).

Anyhow... all that to say, yes, I agree :)

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I long for the days when people weren't so bitter. :(

People weren't so bitter because we lived in a world where folks tried their hardest to make the best game they could. Players were treated with respect. The landscape of gaming is dramatically different now, such that when everybody else is doing any number of the stupid ass things most modern AAA developers tend to do, it's hard to remain optimistic.

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I long for the days when people weren't so bitter. :(

People weren't so bitter because we lived in a world where folks tried their hardest to make the best game they could. Players were treated with respect. The landscape of gaming is dramatically different now, such that when everybody else is doing any number of the stupid ass things most modern AAA developers tend to do, it's hard to remain optimistic.

But we aren't talking about most modern AAA developers. And why take a guilty until proven innocent approach on a site dedicated to enjoying a particular developers games?

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I long for the days when people weren't so bitter. :(

People weren't so bitter because we lived in a world where folks tried their hardest to make the best game they could. Players were treated with respect. The landscape of gaming is dramatically different now, such that when everybody else is doing any number of the stupid ass things most modern AAA developers tend to do, it's hard to remain optimistic.

But we aren't talking about most modern AAA developers. And why take a guilty until proven innocent approach on a site dedicated to enjoying a particular developers games?

Particularly one who hasn't done anything notably evil towards their fanbase.

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- No text -

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But we aren't talking about most modern AAA developers. And why take a guilty until proven innocent approach on a site dedicated to enjoying a particular developers games?

Particularly one who hasn't done anything notably evil towards their fanbase.

how quickly people forget Halo 2 Legendary :)

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But we aren't talking about most modern AAA developers. And why take a guilty until proven innocent approach on a site dedicated to enjoying a particular developers games?

Particularly one who hasn't done anything notably evil towards their fanbase.

how quickly people forget Halo 2 Legendary :)

Pshaw! I can beat Halo 2 on Legendary in my sleep... it's a lot easier when it's a dream.

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I long for the days when people weren't so bitter. :(

People weren't so bitter because we lived in a world where folks tried their hardest to make the best game they could. Players were treated with respect. The landscape of gaming is dramatically different now, such that when everybody else is doing any number of the stupid ass things most modern AAA developers tend to do, it's hard to remain optimistic.

You seem to have missed the major point of my post, which was that the negativity towards the developer is being generated from ideas BROUGHT FORTH BY FANS, WITH LITTLE OR NO BASIS IN ACTUAL REALITY YET.

If you want to be cynical about gaming companies doing nasty things to their customer base, go for it. I think that's self-defeating, but you're welcome to do it. But that's not what i'm talking about. I'm talking about blaming Bungie for some idea a FAN came up with. That's dumb. :(

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I long for the days when people weren't so bitter. :(

People weren't so bitter because we lived in a world where folks tried their hardest to make the best game they could. Players were treated with respect. The landscape of gaming is dramatically different now, such that when everybody else is doing any number of the stupid ass things most modern AAA developers tend to do, it's hard to remain optimistic.

You seem to have missed the major point of my post, which was that the negativity towards the developer is being generated from ideas BROUGHT FORTH BY FANS, WITH LITTLE OR NO BASIS IN ACTUAL REALITY YET.

If you want to be cynical about gaming companies doing nasty things to their customer base, go for it. I think that's self-defeating, but you're welcome to do it. But that's not what i'm talking about. I'm talking about blaming Bungie for some idea a FAN came up with. That's dumb. :(

You're right, I totally missed that. I get it now, and yeah, you are 100% right.

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...commence with the end of the world.

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Well I think you're both right. The sense of entitlement and "armchair video game developer" has grown like a cancer amongst video game culture, and results in people feeling like they can just say whatever briefly passes through their pretty little heads (or butts) as a theory based in fact.

And right, Claude, the result is Bungie getting blamed for stuff that's probably not even on the drawing table yet, because some idiot's theory snowballs into "fact," when it's probably not even on the drawing board yet.

What results is comments like "wtf I read somewhere that Destiny haz rocket launchers, rocket launchers suck lol I hate the RL in Medal of Special Black OPS IV wtf Destiny is gonna suck."

Go take a look at the archives of the Marathon Story Page, check the level and quality of discourse going on there. Sure, a lot of us were bookworms, but the reason the discourse there was at such a high level was because Hamish specifically set out the rules for posting a theory: you _had_ to present supporting evidence for your theory, otherwise, you may as well been farting in the wind, and telling people you smelled Channel No.5.

The result was that that level of discourse became expected, and in part enforced, by us, the community. Not by an admin deleting unacceptable posts, but by the community either responding to, or ignoring "farting in the wind" comments.

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In the early days of Halo, if you read one of these, and it excited you, you jumped in with your own expansions on the original speculation - some of the ideas got pretty wild (and definitely out of the realm of 'feasible'). If it DIDN'T excite you... you passed by the thread.

Here, though... here, it seems like the first thing people do is try to find the negative implications in any speculation. And then talk about how the game is going to suck because this speculation can't possibly be done in any reasonable fashion.

I guess crack has gone out of style.

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And then talk about how the game is going to suck because this speculation can't possibly be done in any reasonable fashion.

Condemning the GAME because some random speculation by some fan doesn't do it for you does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING USEFUL for the community as a whole.

I had a knee-jerk reaction to how I'd imagined Malagate and then Ragashingo's particular suggestions could take form and... yeah. I messed up regardless, but I didn't mean to say that. Then again I don't know what I meant to say. :/

I long for the days when people weren't so bitter. :(

A lot has happened since then. But yes.

If it makes you feel any better, look at how DBO reacted to my response. A large portion of the hopeful speculative discussion in this thread has somehow still managed to happen on the chain that followed that post. That's taking it in in stride.
Things aren't all that bleak. This is a community that will make something of Destiny.

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As I am fond of saying, It's the Internet, we're all jackasses sometimes :-D

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So I'm looking at this thread, and I'm comparing the responses in it to the responses to similar threads in the early days of Halo's development. (By 'similar', I mean in style - threads that are "what if...?" in nature.)

And I'm amazed by the differences I see.

The starting posts are similar, in style; they're extrapolations, based on some tiny observed fact in the meager released content.

It's the responses that are different.

In the early days of Halo, if you read one of these, and it excited you, you jumped in with your own expansions on the original speculation - some of the ideas got pretty wild (and definitely out of the realm of 'feasible'). If it DIDN'T excite you... you passed by the thread.

I actually was just skimming the thread and I was going to go back to the index, but I saw "Sounds awful." and I read a little and I thought and I realized it could in fact be awful, so I started reading the whole thread.

Here, though... here, it seems like the first thing people do is try to find the negative implications in any speculation. And then talk about how the game is going to suck because this speculation can't possibly be done in any reasonable fashion.

I didn't see anyone in this thread saying the game was going to suck, or even saying it would probably suck. I haven't even seen that in the vast majority of threads on here, and I've read all of them up to this one. I've seen it in maybe 8-10 threads, in 10-12 posts by 5 or 6 or 7 people.

I wish people would remember that none of these ideas are actually coming from Bungie - they're coming from the fanbase. It's speculation. If you read something someone suggests, and it doesn't do it for you... feel free to say so, if you have to, but then move on. Condemning the GAME because some random speculation by some fan doesn't do it for you does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING USEFUL for the community as a whole.

I don't remember seeing anyone on here taking a fan idea as an official feature/plot point/whatever.

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I'm looking forward to seeing how Bungie makes the Bungie Mobile App a part of the Destiny experience. Granted, as is the case for many others, my wish list for such an experience is sure to exceed the reality. What little chatter I've seen about it tends to all lean in the same direction: People want to have an actual impact to gameplay. Notifications about new content are nice, and messaging between players to organize raids is helpful, but opening up new areas or triggering ingame events through BMA participation are the kinds of things I'm hoping for, and would keep me invested in the world over the long term.

not me, I really hope they don't do that
also anything you can do with the smartphone app, I really hope you can do without a smartphone-- please don't go that route, Bungie

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