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A word on the GNOP! Flash remake and future Bungie remakes

by stevrrr, Friday, March 15, 2013, 09:30 (2701 days ago)

First, let me say thanks to Claude Errera for providing hosting for my remake at the venerable gnop.bungie.org, and thanks to everyone's kind words about the remake itself. Also thanks to everyone who participated in the "ARG", I hope you enjoyed it!

Since Bungie hasn't sent a cease & desist letter yet (to my knowledge) I'm going to assume that they either don't know about GNOP! Flash, or maybe they think it's cool, or maybe they just don't care. As such, I'm happy to announce that I've laid the groundwork for a remake of Operation: Desert Storm, written in Haxe, and you can see the progress so far here. There's not much, and a lot is broken, but it's a start!

Like GNOP! Flash, ODS-Haxe is open source (you can see the source code for GNOP! Flash here). Unlike GNOP! Flash, I'd like ODS-Haxe (or maybe OpenODS is a better name) to be a community project with multiple contributors. If you're interested in contributing, you should know that Haxe (which is open source) is almost identical to ActionScript 3.0 so if you've worked with Flash before you'll be in familiar territory.

Of course, this would lead one to wonder about other pre-Marathon Bungie remakes. Personally, I think an in-browser remake of Minotaur: The Labyrinths of Crete would be awesome, as it's currently impossible to play it in its desired form (as a top-down deathmatch) because it relies on AppleTalk. With some effort and a server, it would be possible to play Minotaur against others in your browser (for an example of good browser multiplayer, check out Bombermine).

The last pre-Marathon Bungie game is Pathways Into Darkness, a great and well-documented game that is all but inaccessible today. This is, in my opinion, the game that offers the greatest potential for a good remake, as the gameplay has aged quite well, again, in my opinion.

As for some of Bungie's other games, as I've mentioned before, I'd like to see them available for download, and you can vote for Oni and Myth on GOG. Although perhaps Bungie could sell them directly through their store.

TL;DR I'd like to eventually remake all of Bungie's pre-Marathon games, but I could use some help, and I'd also like to know your thoughts on this whole deal. Let me know what you think!

A request

by kapowaz, Friday, March 15, 2013, 10:06 (2701 days ago) @ stevrrr

I was impressed with what you made with GNOP! but I was a little disappointed that in 2013 Flash is still being used to port old games for playing in the browser. Would you consider doing this next project with modern web technologies like canvas and JavaScript? It seems wrong somehow to be creating new things that will cease to work once Flash (inevitably) goes the way of the dodo.

I can't say I have time to contribute to help out (or I would do, given this stuff matters to me), but… give it some thought?

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Definitely!

by stevrrr, Friday, March 15, 2013, 10:19 (2701 days ago) @ kapowaz

Would you consider doing this next project with modern web technologies like canvas and JavaScript?

Totally! I actually made GNOP! in Flash because, at the time I started (over 6 months ago) all I knew was ActionScript. I actually don't have a background in any sort of programming, I'm picking this all up as I go along. I chose Flash somewhat arbitrarily.

Now that I know a bit more, this is something I'd like to support. As mentioned in the post, Haxe can create HTML5 games (i.e. Canvas/Javascript) with ease. Furthermore, as I've been working on ODS, I've seen that my code is pretty terrible.

So: when I have time, I'll definitely make an HTML5 version of GNOP! using Haxe, with all of my terrible code fixed.

Fantastic!

by kapowaz, Friday, March 15, 2013, 10:21 (2701 days ago) @ stevrrr

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Definitely!

by Samusaaron3, Bay Area, Friday, March 15, 2013, 17:31 (2701 days ago) @ stevrrr

I'll be taking a class next quarter where I'll get the chance to work in HTML5 a bit (writing games) - if all goes well, and the project is still underway at that point, I'd love to help out!

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That'd be great!

by stevrrr, Saturday, March 16, 2013, 08:38 (2700 days ago) @ Samusaaron3

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A word on the GNOP! Flash remake and future Bungie remakes

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Friday, March 15, 2013, 13:01 (2701 days ago) @ stevrrr

First, I think you did a great job with GNOP!. I'd never actually played it and I'm glad I got the chance to. I didn't realize there were so many options - I'd always understood it to be more or less a direct Pong clone but there's more to it apparently.

I don't know what Bungie's stance on their other games being remade is. They did release the source code to Marathon 2 years ago, which became Aleph One, so in general it seems like the sort of thing they might be ok with - but I don't know if they've made specific statements about the games you mentioned? My guess would be that they're probably not going to make a fuss about any games that are old enough that they can't make money from them anymore - if it's not possible for a customer to pay Bungie for Minotaur anymore, it doesn't seem like it would make any substantial difference if someone copies it.

Seems like the later games are probably going to be more difficult to reproduce than GNOP! was? I dunno, and I'm certainly no programmer. In any case, I'd love to try some of Bungie's earlier efforts.

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A word on the GNOP! Flash remake and future Bungie remakes

by stevrrr, Friday, March 15, 2013, 13:21 (2701 days ago) @ stabbim

First, I think you did a great job with GNOP!. I'd never actually played it and I'm glad I got the chance to. I didn't realize there were so many options - I'd always understood it to be more or less a direct Pong clone but there's more to it apparently.

Thank you! The options are fun, I'm still waiting for RC to beat it on Expert, Large Computer Paddle, Small Player Paddle, Small Ball, Fast Ball, Score to Win: 99.

I don't know what Bungie's stance on their other games being remade is. They did release the source code to Marathon 2 years ago, which became Aleph One, so in general it seems like the sort of thing they might be ok with - but I don't know if they've made specific statements about the games you mentioned? My guess would be that they're probably not going to make a fuss about any games that are old enough that they can't make money from them anymore - if it's not possible for a customer to pay Bungie for Minotaur anymore, it doesn't seem like it would make any substantial difference if someone copies it.

I'm hoping that this will be their stance too -- although it would be nice to have some official word.

Seems like the later games are probably going to be more difficult to reproduce than GNOP! was? I dunno, and I'm certainly no programmer. In any case, I'd love to try some of Bungie's earlier efforts.

Yes, GNOP! was very simple, so remaking it was not difficult. Later games were more complicated, but the underlying concepts of, say, ODS are commonplace; a tilemapped top-down tank game is not hard to make nowadays. Getting it to play exactly like Seropian's effort is another story.

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A word on the GNOP! Flash remake and future Bungie remakes

by RC ⌂, UK, Friday, March 15, 2013, 14:21 (2701 days ago) @ stevrrr

Thank you! The options are fun, I'm still waiting for RC to beat it on Expert, Large Computer Paddle, Small Player Paddle, Small Ball, Fast Ball, Score to Win: 99.

Yeah... I'll get my grandchildren to work on that one.

A word on the GNOP! Flash remake and future Bungie remakes

by Flynn J Taggart, Friday, March 15, 2013, 16:03 (2701 days ago) @ stevrrr

First, let me say thanks to Claude Errera for providing hosting for my remake at the venerable gnop.bungie.org, and thanks to everyone's kind words about the remake itself. Also thanks to everyone who participated in the "ARG", I hope you enjoyed it!

Since Bungie hasn't sent a cease & desist letter yet (to my knowledge) I'm going to assume that they either don't know about GNOP! Flash, or maybe they think it's cool, or maybe they just don't care. As such, I'm happy to announce that I've laid the groundwork for a remake of Operation: Desert Storm, written in Haxe, and you can see the progress so far here. There's not much, and a lot is broken, but it's a start!

Like GNOP! Flash, ODS-Haxe is open source (you can see the source code for GNOP! Flash here). Unlike GNOP! Flash, I'd like ODS-Haxe (or maybe OpenODS is a better name) to be a community project with multiple contributors. If you're interested in contributing, you should know that Haxe (which is open source) is almost identical to ActionScript 3.0 so if you've worked with Flash before you'll be in familiar territory.

Of course, this would lead one to wonder about other pre-Marathon Bungie remakes. Personally, I think an in-browser remake of Minotaur: The Labyrinths of Crete would be awesome, as it's currently impossible to play it in its desired form (as a top-down deathmatch) because it relies on AppleTalk. With some effort and a server, it would be possible to play Minotaur against others in your browser (for an example of good browser multiplayer, check out Bombermine).

The last pre-Marathon Bungie game is Pathways Into Darkness, a great and well-documented game that is all but inaccessible today. This is, in my opinion, the game that offers the greatest potential for a good remake, as the gameplay has aged quite well, again, in my opinion.

As for some of Bungie's other games, as I've mentioned before, I'd like to see them available for download, and you can vote for Oni and Myth on GOG. Although perhaps Bungie could sell them directly through their store.

TL;DR I'd like to eventually remake all of Bungie's pre-Marathon games, but I could use some help, and I'd also like to know your thoughts on this whole deal. Let me know what you think!

Pathways into Darkness has kinda been one of the Bungie-nerd holy grails of conversion, IMO. If I had more skill and time, I'd love to work on a conversion of that. I only ever played it through the once and it was a long time ago, and I don't have access to any Macs from that era anymore, and it would be amazing to see PiD brought back for the current generation of Bungie fan to experience.

http://bighouse.bungie.org/pathways/index.php these guys were public with their project a few years back, but sadly never finished. It's an attempt at an aleph one port of PiD, but really any way of playing it on modern computers would be incredible.

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A word on the GNOP! Flash remake and future Bungie remakes

by stevrrr, Saturday, March 16, 2013, 08:33 (2700 days ago) @ Flynn J Taggart

Pathways into Darkness has kinda been one of the Bungie-nerd holy grails of conversion, IMO. If I had more skill and time, I'd love to work on a conversion of that. I only ever played it through the once and it was a long time ago, and I don't have access to any Macs from that era anymore, and it would be amazing to see PiD brought back for the current generation of Bungie fan to experience.

I agree completely; Pathways into Darkness is (what I consider to be) the first game that really captured Bungie's vision, not to mention that it's first game made by Bungie proper (with both Seropian and Jones). It's atmospheric, dark, and suspenseful, with an innovative narrative.

http://bighouse.bungie.org/pathways/index.php these guys were public with their project a few years back, but sadly never finished. It's an attempt at an aleph one port of PiD, but really any way of playing it on modern computers would be incredible.

An Aleph One port is a logical route to take, but I suppose I had a grander vision in mind. That conversation is a long way off though.

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A word on the GNOP! Flash remake and future Bungie remakes

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Saturday, March 16, 2013, 22:39 (2700 days ago) @ stevrrr

Pathways into Darkness has kinda been one of the Bungie-nerd holy grails of conversion, IMO. If I had more skill and time, I'd love to work on a conversion of that. I only ever played it through the once and it was a long time ago, and I don't have access to any Macs from that era anymore, and it would be amazing to see PiD brought back for the current generation of Bungie fan to experience.


I agree completely; Pathways into Darkness is (what I consider to be) the first game that really captured Bungie's vision, not to mention that it's first game made by Bungie proper (with both Seropian and Jones). It's atmospheric, dark, and suspenseful, with an innovative narrative.

http://bighouse.bungie.org/pathways/index.php these guys were public with their project a few years back, but sadly never finished. It's an attempt at an aleph one port of PiD, but really any way of playing it on modern computers would be incredible.

I used to chat with one of the guys behind that. I asked him about it last year (I think it was last year) and IIRC he said they got a little farther than really showed on b.org but not much, and there were problems of interest and time, among other things. IDK if he still hangs around b.net since the forums got all... weird, but if he does you should be able to find him in the group For Carnage Apply Within.

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A word on the GNOP! Flash remake and future Bungie remakes

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Saturday, March 16, 2013, 22:22 (2700 days ago) @ stevrrr
edited by General Vagueness, Saturday, March 16, 2013, 22:28

I like what you did with Gnop(!) and your reveal thing... it would've been nice if it had any impact on anything that happened, but I was only expecting that because the Local Elder said there would be a payoff. I've been programming for a few years, I've taken college classes on programming, and I know a few programming languages, plus I know some basics of web design (HTML and CSS; another class I took), so if I have time I might try to help with whatever you want help with.

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Glad to hear you can help!

by stevrrr, Tuesday, March 19, 2013, 13:59 (2697 days ago) @ General Vagueness

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A word on the GNOP! Flash remake and future Bungie remakes

by MrM12LRV, Sunday, March 17, 2013, 12:14 (2699 days ago) @ stevrrr

I definitely support this project. I've been waiting for multiplayer Minotaur. That would be great! Keep going with this.

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A word on the GNOP! Flash remake and future Bungie remakes

by stevrrr, Tuesday, March 19, 2013, 14:01 (2697 days ago) @ MrM12LRV

Multiplayer Minotaur seems pretty fun; right now you can just jab at a "punching bag", which is just a stationary enemy. The procedural levels, huge item variety; pretty advanced for the time, IMO.

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A word on the GNOP! Flash remake and future Bungie remakes

by Stephen Laughlin ⌂ @, Long Beach, CA, Monday, March 18, 2013, 18:23 (2698 days ago) @ stevrrr

The Gnop remake was awesome, man. I would play the shit out of any other Bungie games you revive.

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Thank you!

by stevrrr, Tuesday, March 19, 2013, 14:01 (2697 days ago) @ Stephen Laughlin

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A word on the GNOP! Flash remake and future Bungie remakes

by JohnShortcut @, Valencia, Venezuela, Tuesday, April 02, 2013, 17:39 (2683 days ago) @ stevrrr

Hello! First of all, I am glad you're planning this endeavour, from a personal perspective, I've always wanted to make up for all the time lost (Considering that in my Country it was already hard to connect to the internet), I discovered Halo as a child by my own, and only got to meet part of the Community after the release of Halo: Reach. I'm afraid that by then pretty much of the Fan base was somewhat dispersed. But I've working as much as I can, collaborating with Hamish Sinclair (As a matter of fact I just contacted him as well as Claude Errera regarding some interesting tidbits about Marathon and Destiny/Halo 4. I'd like to tell you that, I'd like to assist you in your plans for remaking Pre-Marathon Games, especially Pathways Into Darkness. I might not have any experience in programming, but I'll make myself as useful as possible, even if that requires that I start learning from this very moment. You, sir, have my full support! Lately I've been very busy, and therefore I've had to leave projects aside, but if things go well, I might start working on my Web Comics, as well as some Halo/Marathon Machinima and Marathon 3rd Party Maps (I will have to start from Zero, but I'm 117% committed to these tasks). So, if there's anythng that you might require from me, I'm at your service.

I'll anxiously await for your response.
Cheers
Simon (John Shortcut)

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