Destiny at GDC

by rliebherr @, St. Louis, Missouri, Wednesday, March 27, 2013, 19:27 (4019 days ago)

Here's the link to Gamespot's stream of Bungie at GDC discussing their pillars of creating worlds. 20 hours to go!

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Sweet! Thanks for the link!

by Mr Daax ⌂ @, aka: SSG Daax, Wednesday, March 27, 2013, 19:31 (4019 days ago) @ rliebherr

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Destiny at GDC

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 09:14 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

Sweet, it's on my calendar.

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Less than 5 hours!

by SigbiasSilva @, West Midlands, England, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 11:10 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

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Don't expect code samples.

by SigbiasSilva @, West Midlands, England, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 11:52 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

"Our presenters at GDC, Staten & Barry, are creative directors @Bungie over story and art. Don't expect code samples." - David Candland, https://twitter.com/drcandland/status/317347248352686080

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Don't expect code samples.

by Tawpgun, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 12:23 (4018 days ago) @ SigbiasSilva

So chances are we're getting more concept art and maybe some more info on the story? Hoping for a campaign trailer.

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Don't expect code samples.

by SigbiasSilva @, West Midlands, England, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 12:54 (4018 days ago) @ Tawpgun

I hadn't noticed, but it seems the front page has got this covered:

Barrett and Joseph Staten, the hour-long presentation will give an insight into the process of designing and building the worlds of Destiny, from concept to production. While the talk is certainly focused toward game developers, many in the community will be interested to peek behind the curtain and catch some new perspectives on Destiny to tease our imaginations and fuel our collective speculation.

I think it's safe to expect some concept art and world information, yeah. And public exposure on the tools used to create the new IP too? It seems that way. I'm not expecting major reveals or trailers though, as it's mostly a talk intended for game developers on the art of crafting worlds/IP, but who knows!

It'll be insightful nonetheless - hopefully with juicy examples!

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Don't expect code samples.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 12:57 (4018 days ago) @ SigbiasSilva

What would I do with a code sample anyway? A new desktop pic or two? Yes please. :)

Don't expect code samples.

by yakaman, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 13:15 (4018 days ago) @ Ragashingo

What would I do with a code sample anyway? A new desktop pic or two? Yes please. :)

I'm hoping a lot of discussion on the types of problems they had to solve. A little info on this type of big-picture problem solving will tell us way more about the game they're trying to make than will a 30 second trailer of gameplay.

What tools are they using? What tools did they need? Why did they think they would need them? Etc.

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Dat Concept Art

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 16:13 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

Oh. My. Gorsh. This presentation is making me giddy!

Dat Concept Art

by PoK3RFaC3D, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 16:13 (4018 days ago) @ Beorn

Everything looks soooo good!

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Seriously. Just...damn.

by Stephen Laughlin ⌂ @, Long Beach, CA, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 21:03 (4017 days ago) @ Beorn

I'm only 20 minutes in but the amount of quality concept art they must have gone through at this point is incredible. Hundreds of designs alone for that last-city-in-space that they ended up abandoning, and each one of the samples they showed was fucking jaw-droppingly beautiful. Unbelievable. The concept art for this is so good.

Destiny at GDC

by rliebherr @, St. Louis, Missouri, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 16:24 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

This is fascinating.

Onyx Pyramid Ships!!

by rliebherr @, St. Louis, Missouri, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 16:24 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

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Stargate SG1, yo.

by Revenant1988 ⌂ @, How do I forum?, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 19:52 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

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Yay, in game shot!

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 16:25 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

Hopefully we get more!

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Exo

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 16:44 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

Really like (liked before I knew what it was) the Exo look.

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Didn't clip into each other

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 16:47 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

This is one thing that drove me crazy in Mass Effect that Bungie has been really good at, making sure the models don't clip into themselves.

TAKE MY DAMN MONEY.

by GrimBrother One, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 16:51 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

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And mine.

by rliebherr @, St. Louis, Missouri, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 16:55 (4018 days ago) @ GrimBrother One

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I don't have money, so will clothes suffice?

by zumphry ⌂ @, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 17:26 (4018 days ago) @ GrimBrother One

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This just in. They're taking preorders. :p

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, March 29, 2013, 09:34 (4017 days ago) @ GrimBrother One

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Playable Races

by rliebherr @, St. Louis, Missouri, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 16:55 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

That has me super excited.

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Calling it now: Exo is gonna be the most popular race

by Pfhrogblast, Finland, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 16:58 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

Skull face. That's the secret to popularity.

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Calling it now: Exo is gonna be the most popular race

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 17:00 (4018 days ago) @ Pfhrogblast

Yeah even Joe and Chris said it's their favorite.

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Calling it now: Exo is gonna be the most popular race

by Chewbaccawakka @, The Great Green Pacific Northwest!, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 17:03 (4018 days ago) @ Pfhrogblast

Heh, I've got a buddy who has been going on and on about wanting to play a Robot in Destiny. He's gonna be stoked now.

Me, I like the Awoken. They're dreamy!

I already have a skull face. Want to be more human.

by scarab @, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 17:04 (4018 days ago) @ Pfhrogblast

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The Awoken are fascinating.

by TTL Demag0gue ⌂ @, Within the shadow of the Traveler, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 17:11 (4018 days ago) @ Pfhrogblast

I'm really curious about the Awoken. I have a feeling there's going to be some really juicy fiction backing that particular race.

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The Awoken are fascinating.

by zumphry ⌂ @, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 17:24 (4018 days ago) @ TTL Demag0gue
edited by zumphry, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 17:28

I'm really curious about the Awoken. I have a feeling there's going to be some really juicy fiction backing that particular race.

First thought when I saw them was that if Warlocks get their powers from The Traveler, does that mean the Awoken are "awoken" (aka affected biologically, or something) by The Traveler?

(RIP tiger man)

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Elves in spaaaaaace

by Stephen Laughlin ⌂ @, Long Beach, CA, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 22:19 (4017 days ago) @ TTL Demag0gue

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SO. MUCH. ART.

by SigbiasSilva @, West Midlands, England, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 17:06 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

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YouTube Video Up

by UnrealCh13f @, San Luis Obispo, CA, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 17:06 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKOY8zJx2Q4

Shut up and take my money.

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Destiny at GDC

by RC ⌂, UK, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 17:11 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

Um. Kinda excited now.

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More Grognok please

by Pfhrogblast, Finland, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 17:27 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

That was one of the highlights of the presentation. I want to see how the samller parts of the world are fitted together. And more terrain painting, that was beautiful! Do you think the detail brush actually tesselates the ground to make all the wrinkles or if it's just a normal map?

I wish I could see skyboxes being constructed... scratch that, I want to play with Grognok myself! :D

More Grognok please

by Veegie, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 18:15 (4018 days ago) @ Pfhrogblast

Glad you enjoyed! It's the byproduct of a lot of work from a lot of very hard working people.

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More Grognok please

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 20:21 (4018 days ago) @ Veegie

Glad you enjoyed! It's the byproduct of a lot of work from a lot of very hard working people.

At the end of the Grognok demo I realized that my mouth was hanging open and I had a huge, stupid grin on my face. That was just so completely amazing! I think I just about lost it when the designer started playing with the time of day and moving the decorative lights around on the wall.

Every single one of you hardworking people at Bungie should give yourselves a pat on the back!

More Grognok please

by Phoenix_9286 @, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 20:47 (4017 days ago) @ Beorn

Glad you enjoyed! It's the byproduct of a lot of work from a lot of very hard working people.


At the end of the Grognok demo I realized that my mouth was hanging open and I had a huge, stupid grin on my face. That was just so completely amazing! I think I just about lost it when the designer started playing with the time of day and moving the decorative lights around on the wall.

Every single one of you hardworking people at Bungie should give yourselves a pat on the back!

So much this. Prior to this, I'd kill to get my hands on Unreal 4 and play with it. Now... What's Unreal 4?

I'd really love, down the line, to see something like a tech demo of Grognok. The features, how iteration works, how those lights work, the tools, how it connects into the workflow, everything.

Seriously wicked cool stuff.

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More Grognok please

by Stephen Laughlin ⌂ @, Long Beach, CA, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 02:00 (4016 days ago) @ Veegie

Glad you enjoyed! It's the byproduct of a lot of work from a lot of very hard working people.

You should tell everyone the Project Tools team just got totally wasted one night, someone drunkenly declared "let's see what happens when I type on this keyboard with my butt," and Grognok was born--fully formed, like Athena from Zeus' brow. That would be an awesome story.

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More Grognok please

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 20:20 (4018 days ago) @ Pfhrogblast

That was one of the highlights of the presentation. I want to see how the samller parts of the world are fitted together. And more terrain painting, that was beautiful! Do you think the detail brush actually tesselates the ground to make all the wrinkles or if it's just a normal map?

Would be hilarious if Destiny is full of Halo 4 Impact levels of geometry bullshlapskying.

It would be even funnier if, at the same time, the water was going Halo 3 in full force.

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Is it possible...

by Grizzlei ⌂ @, Pacific Cloud Zone, Earth, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 17:28 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

To get with an NPC? This chest plate is a total genitalia magnet.

Is it possible...

by Wakko45, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 21:56 (4017 days ago) @ Grizzlei

Babe. Magnet. You can be..their knight in shining armor.

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I like Bungie. I like Destiny.

by Leviathan ⌂, Hotel Zanzibar, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 18:20 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

They had me when they went over their inspirations for the idealistic art. John Harris, Terry Gilliam, etc. Awesome.

I have a feeling I'm going to be a Titan (if I can).

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Warlock all the way! SPAAAACE WIZAAAAAARD!

by Chewbaccawakka @, The Great Green Pacific Northwest!, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 18:23 (4018 days ago) @ Leviathan

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Either Human Titan or Exo Hunter for me.

by Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) ⌂ @, London, Ontario, Canada, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 19:37 (4018 days ago) @ Chewbaccawakka

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Awoken female. With no armor. I can pretend I'm Cortana.

by Leviathan ⌂, Hotel Zanzibar, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 21:36 (4017 days ago) @ Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)

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I like Bungie. I like Destiny.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, March 29, 2013, 08:47 (4017 days ago) @ Leviathan

They had me when they went over their inspirations for the idealistic art. John Harris, Terry Gilliam, etc. Awesome.

I have a feeling I'm going to be a Titan (if I can).

They had me at Tarkovsky.

Leaning toward the warlock. Been bound in armor too long. I want to feel the air.

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What, like a kilt?

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Friday, March 29, 2013, 09:06 (4017 days ago) @ Kermit

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Exactly.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, March 29, 2013, 09:11 (4017 days ago) @ Beorn

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Dresses have this airflow...

by SonofMacPhisto @, Friday, March 29, 2013, 09:20 (4017 days ago) @ Kermit

Married myself a powerful ugly creature.

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If your hand touches metal…

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Friday, March 29, 2013, 10:26 (4017 days ago) @ SonofMacPhisto

…I swear by my pretty flowered bonnet, I will end you.

I love that show. I really hope there's some sort of brownish, coatish thing for my Guardian to wear. ;)

Coat==Wizard Hood==Hunter CanOpwner==Titan

by scarab @, Friday, March 29, 2013, 13:46 (4017 days ago) @ Beorn

So you'll have to be a Wizard.

I'm gonna be that guy...

by Lurono @, Oklahoma, USA, Friday, March 29, 2013, 23:37 (4016 days ago) @ Beorn

Because I love Firefly, too...

It was "floral" =)

Anyways, I hope, hope, HOPE that Bungie at least brings in Nathan Fillion to do some voice work for Destiny! I feel like he brings a bit of levity to things, even when the situation's supposed to be serious. It also wouldn't hurt to bring back a couple ODST/Serenity crew members as well... =D

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I'm gonna be that guy...

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 01:27 (4016 days ago) @ Lurono

Because I love Firefly, too...

It was "floral" =)

Anyways, I hope, hope, HOPE that Bungie at least brings in Nathan Fillion to do some voice work for Destiny! I feel like he brings a bit of levity to things, even when the situation's supposed to be serious. It also wouldn't hurt to bring back a couple ODST/Serenity crew members as well... =D

Hopefully they'll have a Firefly aught three you can buy, haha

Destiny needs Highlanders

by scarab @, Friday, March 29, 2013, 15:00 (4017 days ago) @ Beorn

Cut their heads off and watch their souls escape.

I think I've been here too long.

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 19:28 (4018 days ago) @ rliebherr

This was where my mind went.

[image]

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You're not alone, man.

by Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) ⌂ @, London, Ontario, Canada, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 19:39 (4018 days ago) @ Claude Errera

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Yep

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 19:49 (4018 days ago) @ Claude Errera

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Ditto

by SigbiasSilva @, West Midlands, England, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 19:53 (4018 days ago) @ Claude Errera

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I KNEW I recognized that cloak from somewhere!

by Chewbaccawakka @, The Great Green Pacific Northwest!, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 20:07 (4018 days ago) @ Claude Errera

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I had the same thought

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 21:17 (4017 days ago) @ Claude Errera

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Nope, first thing I thought too.

by GrimBrother One, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 22:11 (4017 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I also have ALWAYS loved that original concept art, so it immediately rang that bell, lol.

CAN'T WAIT.

Grim

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Nope, first thing I thought too.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, March 29, 2013, 09:09 (4017 days ago) @ GrimBrother One

I also have ALWAYS loved that original concept art, so it immediately rang that bell, lol.

CAN'T WAIT.

Grim

Me, too.

Maybe that image of the S'pht on the walkway started as concept art, but I'm pretty sure it was also a chapter screen from the game.

For me, Craig Mullins' screens always served as the reward for completing a level, and a great set-up for what to come, similarly to how cutscenes have worked in later games.

The Hive do look familiar...

by kapowaz, Friday, March 29, 2013, 01:43 (4017 days ago) @ Claude Errera

[image]
[image]

Snap!

by scarab @, Friday, March 29, 2013, 03:38 (4017 days ago) @ Claude Errera

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Seems familiar, as if from a dream...

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Friday, March 29, 2013, 09:42 (4017 days ago) @ Claude Errera

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I was thinking

by Stephen Laughlin ⌂ @, Long Beach, CA, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 00:15 (4016 days ago) @ Claude Errera

This one kind of felt familiar as well, but it's really stretching it.

[image]

I was thinking

by JS @, Thursday, April 04, 2013, 16:29 (4011 days ago) @ Stephen Laughlin

Stretching it, but not that much. There's certainly a resemblance and some elements (Like the blood in the S'pht and the Destiny character's head). There's certainly a number of Concept Art elements in Destiny that makes you remember Marathon. It's really amazing.

Right there with you.

by SunshineDuk, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 10:21 (4016 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Red swirling cloaks in sci-fi are forever S'pht, to me.

I think I've been here too long.

by JS @, Tuesday, April 02, 2013, 16:53 (4013 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Hello Mr. Errera! Glad to see you noticed that as well, I was just waiting for such a post. In my case, I noticed This Pose and recognized it quickly. I bet you'll understand when you see it. I've been doing my best to find things like there. I already contacted Hamish Sinclair about a certain Description from Halo: Primordium's Precursor and an "Aristocrat" Character from a prologue of the unfinished Duality game by Double Aught. It's the one in the "Hats off to 819" Secret Net Level for Marathon: Infinity. Recently I also found that for some reason, the Original and Unmodified Marathon symbol appeared in a certain Halo 4: Spartan Ops mission. If you're interested, Here it is.

I'm really looking forward to find more things like these and make up for all the years I've been away. Cheers!

Nice finds!

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, April 02, 2013, 19:09 (4013 days ago) @ JS

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Am I the only one around here

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 22:03 (4017 days ago) @ rliebherr

Am I the only one around here wondering why, with all the other engines that were shown that completely outclass what we've seen of destiny so far, Bungie still insists on going with their own engine and not licensing? Say what you will about Bungie but their engine tech has always been middle of the road compared to other contemporary games.

Am I the only one around here

by Phoenix_9286 @, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 22:14 (4017 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Am I the only one around here wondering why, with all the other engines that were shown that completely outclass what we've seen of destiny so far, Bungie still insists on going with their own engine and not licensing? Say what you will about Bungie but their engine tech has always been middle of the road compared to other contemporary games.

And I should care why when it looks that good, and functions that well?

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Am I the only one around here

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 22:25 (4017 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Am I the only one around here wondering why, with all the other engines that were shown that completely outclass what we've seen of destiny so far, Bungie still insists on going with their own engine and not licensing? Say what you will about Bungie but their engine tech has always been middle of the road compared to other contemporary games.

Meh, why you got to stir up trouble?

Anyway, Bungie's engines have generally held their own graphically while sporting features, like theater mode, or vehicles that didn't suck, that contemporary engines lacked. Have they been the most graphically advanced? Generally not. But there's more to games than graphics. You know, like fun! ;)

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Am I the only one around here

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 22:30 (4017 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Am I the only one around here wondering why, with all the other engines that were shown that completely outclass what we've seen of destiny so far, Bungie still insists on going with their own engine and not licensing? Say what you will about Bungie but their engine tech has always been middle of the road compared to other contemporary games.


Meh, why you got to stir up trouble?

Anyway, Bungie's engines have generally held their own graphically while sporting features, like theater mode, or vehicles that didn't suck, that contemporary engines lacked. Have they been the most graphically advanced? Generally not. But there's more to games than graphics. You know, like fun! ;)

Also with the scale of Destiny, I can imagine Bungie did not want to rely on an engine not designed from the ground up for what they had in mind.

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Am I the only one around here

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 22:53 (4017 days ago) @ Xenos

Also with the scale of Destiny, I can imagine Bungie did not want to rely on an engine not designed from the ground up for what they had in mind.

Indeed. There was a quote many months ago, from someone at Bungie, about Destiny not being the most graphically advanced game but rather focusing on presenting the player with more persistent things that made the world feel larger and more real. Footprints and whirlwinds or some such examples were given if I remember right.

Honestly though, I didn't see anything disappointing with what was shown anyway… so who knows. :)

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Am I the only one around here

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 22:55 (4017 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Honestly though, I didn't see anything disappointing with what was shown anyway… so who knows. :)

Yeah if I wanted to play an amazing looking but mediocre game I'd go play the Crysis games!

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Am I the only one around here

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 23:10 (4017 days ago) @ Xenos

Honestly though, I didn't see anything disappointing with what was shown anyway… so who knows. :)


Yeah if I wanted to play an amazing looking but mediocre game I'd go play the Crysis games!

Heh. I played Crysis 2 once. Fun concept with one of the most inept, pointless stories I've ever set my controllered hands too. That and it was detailed like Bay's Transformers. So much detail on the enemies that I could hardly tell I was hitting them, much less if I'd landed a head shot.

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Am I the only one around here

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 22:53 (4017 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Am I the only one around here wondering why, with all the other engines that were shown that completely outclass what we've seen of destiny so far, Bungie still insists on going with their own engine and not licensing? Say what you will about Bungie but their engine tech has always been middle of the road compared to other contemporary games.

Because as much as people insist otherwise, Bungie is not technologically clueless.

First off, a lot of the stuff being shown right now is for the next-gen consoles. Bungie can't take full advantage of those resources at the moment because Destiny is a cross-gen game and has to be able to run on eight-year-old hardware. It's also technically quite ambitious in gameplay, which is going to limit the polish of its visuals.

The more important thing, though, is that Bungie can always tune their engines for the look and feel they're going for.
Halo 3 is a great example of this. There's a ton of design choices, like how the water works and the way some foliage reacts to things, that are costly and subtle but contribute to the game's feel. But on a core engine level, nothing stands about the lighting model. It's unique, and it's fantastic, and it's absurdly expensive and would never have happened if Bungie has gone with a cheap middleware solution.

Bungie's games haven't usually competed at the bleeding edge of battles over the amount of detail in the foreground, and they don't always tick off all the standard graphical checkboxes that every middleware engine ever does... but they generally manage to hold their own well enough, while doing awesome experimental stuff that sets them apart, while nailing their aesthetic vision, while also being very full-featured. If having fewer polygons is what it takes for spartans to go splashy splashy float float down a river, I'm down with it.

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Am I the only one around here

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, March 29, 2013, 09:38 (4017 days ago) @ uberfoop
edited by Cody Miller, Friday, March 29, 2013, 09:42

Did you see MGS 5? It's running on current gen hardware and looks next gen. Games with Unreal engine 3 are consistently better looking than H3/Reach, and have an amazing diversity. I don't know, I'm not in the know about this stuff, but it's obvious Bungie can make a fun game, so why not step up the graphics a bit AND make a great game?

I'M JUST WONDERING OUT LOUD HERE, it's not necessarily a criticism.

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Am I the only one around here

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, March 29, 2013, 09:51 (4017 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Maybe it would limit their flexibility. Maybe given the finite number of man hours they have to make a game, they don't consider it worth the trade-offs in different areas.

To me, better graphics have never made the difference between a good game and great game.

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Am I the only one around here

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, March 29, 2013, 10:08 (4017 days ago) @ Kermit

To me, better graphics have never made the difference between a good game and great game.

Would you have played (and enjoyed) Limbo if it looked like space invaders?

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Am I the only one around here

by Leviathan ⌂, Hotel Zanzibar, Friday, March 29, 2013, 12:44 (4017 days ago) @ Cody Miller

To me, better graphics have never made the difference between a good game and great game.


Would you have played (and enjoyed) Limbo if it looked like space invaders?

That's a pretty extreme example. He's probably referring to the more recent era of games. For example, the graphics of Halo Anniversary didn't push Halo CE from a good game to a great game. Conversely, if any of the great games coming out now were made with the graphics technology of 5 or 7 years ago, they still would have been great.

The graphical leaps have slowed down. To me, that front seems to be more about shock value than anything these days, not fulfillment of your art direction or enhancing gameplay capabilities.

(And 'yes' to a more moderate comparison, I think I would have enjoyed Limbo if it was at say, a 16-bit level. Any less and it likely would have had too little to work with to maintain its effect on the player - the players who enjoyed it at least.)

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Am I the only one around here

by SigbiasSilva @, West Midlands, England, Friday, March 29, 2013, 12:48 (4017 days ago) @ Cody Miller

To me, better graphics have never made the difference between a good game and great game.


Would you have played (and enjoyed) Limbo if it looked like space invaders?

You're twisting their words there, though. Jumping between the graphics in Limbo and Space Invaders in pretty extreme, cross generational, and largely irrelevant?

But I'll bite ;D

The graphics of Limbo are perfect for what it is - for the style of gameplay and narrative it's presenting. If we were to apply Limbo's direction to many other titles, it would not bode well. The developers had certain goals in mind, and the engine was of course constructed to achieve those goals in the best way they could.

Let's apply this to Destiny.

If Bungie were to try and construct their large, shared, ever changing and persistent multiplayer world - something with great emphasis on the scale and continuous player activity, I don't think a game engine designed for relatively compact (though stunning!) game space will cut it. It's not a game about small competitive multiplayer maps or linear campaign corridor design.

Bungie has traded off top of the range next gen visuals for scope. They want scale. They want networking magic. They want players seamlessly stumbling into one another. It's one of the choices developers have to make - choosing how much power to point where. IF they pumped up the visuals, the scope that Bungie speaks so enthusiastically of would no doubt have to be reeled in, undoing their vision.

That's exactly why they'd construct their own engine. They have a unique task at hand, and have the ability to create the means to reach it. Why pay a ton of cash for something that will inevitably be altered to the point of beyond recognition?

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Am I the only one around here

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, March 29, 2013, 13:50 (4017 days ago) @ SigbiasSilva

To me, better graphics have never made the difference between a good game and great game.


Would you have played (and enjoyed) Limbo if it looked like space invaders?


You're twisting their words there, though. Jumping between the graphics in Limbo and Space Invaders in pretty extreme, cross generational, and largely irrelevant?

That's not the point. The point is that so many people responded positively to the atmosphere of Limbo. Narcogen and JIllybean even say that's one of the big reasons they love the game. If the graphics in Limbo had not been able to do that, then I don't think anybody would have paid it much attention. Limbo is an example of graphics making the game significantly better.

The graphics are the primary way you respond to a game. As such, their quality and art direction has a huge impact on how you perceive the game. As you point out, yes you have to have graphics appropriate to your game, but can you imagine making limbo on the NES? Would it have the impact it had? Nope. It would have just been a dull platformer that would have been instantly forgotten.

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Am I the only one around here

by SigbiasSilva @, West Midlands, England, Friday, March 29, 2013, 14:41 (4017 days ago) @ Cody Miller

The graphics are the primary way you respond to a game. As such, their quality and art direction has a huge impact on how you perceive the game. As you point out, yes you have to have graphics appropriate to your game, but can you imagine making limbo on the NES? Would it have the impact it had? Nope. It would have just been a dull platformer that would have been instantly forgotten.

I don't disagree about the importance and initial impact of graphics and art direction. Limbo and NES games being compared to one another in terms of the importance of graphics still remains to be an extreme and largely redundant example, though? Those sit on almost opposing ends of game history.

Let's not forget the comment that lead to this tangent, and that we're talking about modern games and their visuals, and in-house engines:

Maybe it would limit their flexibility. Maybe given the finite number of man hours they have to make a game, they don't consider it worth the trade-offs in different areas.

To me, better graphics have never made the difference between a good game and great game - Kermit

And I agree 100% with that. It boils down to gameplay and fun. Destiny is already stated to substitute some graphical umph for large scale worlds and networking funk, and that's it. It's nothing for anyone to worry about, and I don't think the graphical "loss" is going to deter anyone from the experience! ;D

What we've seen looks great! It might not compare to some other Next Gen titles technically, but that really doesn't bother me. If the vision of scale remains true, I'm fine with Destiny looking the way it currently does! :)

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Am I the only one around here

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, March 29, 2013, 23:56 (4016 days ago) @ Cody Miller
edited by Kermit, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 00:11

You're twisting their words there, though. Jumping between the graphics in Limbo and Space Invaders in pretty extreme, cross generational, and largely irrelevant?


That's not the point. The point is that so many people responded positively to the atmosphere of Limbo. Narcogen and JIllybean even say that's one of the big reasons they love the game. If the graphics in Limbo had not been able to do that, then I don't think anybody would have paid it much attention. Limbo is an example of graphics making the game significantly better.


The graphics are the primary way you respond to a game. As such, their quality and art direction has a huge impact on how you perceive the game. As you point out, yes you have to have graphics appropriate to your game, but can you imagine making limbo on the NES? Would it have the impact it had? Nope. It would have just been a dull platformer that would have been instantly forgotten.

The quality and art direction can be judged separately from level of detail, level of realism, and all the tech specs that people usually talk about when they talk about what a graphic engine will do, which is what I thought we were talking about.

The graphics for LIMBO were pretty basic technologically speaking, but the art direction was stellar and suited the game. I feel the same way about Bungie's games. My statement was another way of saying I'm not a pixel-counter, and I don't think you are either, Cody. I suspect you're just stirring the pot.

I know that there are graphics fanatics, but those people aren't playing on Xboxes anymore. They're into alienware and all that stuff I don't care anything about.

They remind me of these snooty audiophiles who would come into the record store when CDs were new and refuse to buy any CD that wasn't fully digital--digitally recorded, digitally mixed, and digital format (obviously). This standard would require them to dismiss virtually all recorded music made at that time, which is ludicrous if, you know, you actually like music.

Ten years before that you had audio equipment manufacturers recording special pressings in quadraphonic sound so that dweebs with more money than sense would ooh and ahh over them (and spend megabucks on hardware), as if they weren't hearing C-list artists like Livingston Taylor (you all probably don't even know his more famous brother, James).

Screw that noise. Give me the Ronettes. Bring back mono.

Can't figure you out, Cody. I never know what measuring stick you're going to pull out. I sure didn't expect graphical fidelity to be your touchstone for greatness in games.

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Am I the only one around here

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Sunday, April 07, 2013, 21:49 (4007 days ago) @ Cody Miller

To me, better graphics have never made the difference between a good game and great game.


Would you have played (and enjoyed) Limbo if it looked like space invaders?


You're twisting their words there, though. Jumping between the graphics in Limbo and Space Invaders in pretty extreme, cross generational, and largely irrelevant?


That's not the point. The point is that so many people responded positively to the atmosphere of Limbo. Narcogen and JIllybean even say that's one of the big reasons they love the game. If the graphics in Limbo had not been able to do that, then I don't think anybody would have paid it much attention. Limbo is an example of graphics making the game significantly better.

well, when you put it that way, every game is like that

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Am I the only one around here

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Friday, March 29, 2013, 12:35 (4017 days ago) @ Cody Miller
edited by uberfoop, Friday, March 29, 2013, 12:41

Did you see MGS 5? It's running on current gen hardware and looks next gen.

Oh, you mean the game running on Konami's proprietary in-house FOX Engine? ;)

Games with Unreal engine 3 are consistently better looking than H3/Reach, and have an amazing diversity.

That's more than a little subjective. There is a core "look" that unmodified UE3 tends to provide, and not everyone likes it. And it wouldn't necessarily be what Bungie wanted with Halo.
Sure, Bungie could go pull a Mirrors Edge and do things like implement a different lighting model into UE3... And we're right back to talking about custom graphical engineering.

I'm not sure where you're coming from with the notion that Reach is terribly graphically outclassed by other 360 games. I can see where the argument comes from with Halo 3 because Bungie compromised so heavily on raw detail (I still think it was totally worth it, but it doesn't shock me that people disagree), but Reach is no slouch in that department.
How many UE3 games with as wide open environments full of as much interactive stuff and can be moved about as quickly and freely (and hence necessitate being able to push all the details in the environment on the fly) are much more impressive?

Actually, this attitude of Reach being graphically unimpressive perplexes me in general. Halo 4 is applauded for being super graphically impressive, but Reach isn't all that far behind Halo 4 in terms of raw stuff-pushing, and there's a lot of stuff it graphically does better. It has seemingly higher-quality HDR resulting in less hazy bloom, its water is a semi-interactive 3d-animated surface as compared with Halo 4's static surface, environment shadows aren't dithered, it has more particles, the dynamic lights are big enough that they actually have an effect on the visual makeup of the game, the LODing is astronomically less aggressive, and textures are typically better. Heck, for all the praise Halo 4's shadowing gets, Reach's in-game dynamic and self shadows are actually often higher-resolution (seriously, compared the ones on the scorpions), which means that Reach's environment and dynamic shadows both do things better than Halo 4's. And that's all while filling fairly large and fleshed-out combat areas with reasonable amounts of simultaneous enemies and physics objects and tracking data for theater, the former 2 of which Halo 4 only does rarely and the latter of which it never does.
I agree that Reach doesn't look quite as "polished" as most of its competitors... Bungie could easily have changed that by dropping the quality of the HDR while increasing the lighting contrast to get hazy Halo 4-style bloom, adding in some hazy screen-space godrays, applying a blurry post-process filter, and using less colour contrast. Bungie doesn't do that because they care more about crisp imagery and diverse, bold colour schemes. (This is part of why all the screen-space godrays in Destiny footage has me a little worried.)

Am I the only one around here

by Lurono @, Oklahoma, USA, Friday, March 29, 2013, 23:53 (4016 days ago) @ uberfoop

I agree that Reach doesn't look quite as "polished" as most of its competitors... Bungie could easily have changed that by dropping the quality of the HDR while increasing the lighting contrast to get hazy Halo 4-style bloom, adding in some hazy screen-space godrays, applying a blurry post-process filter, and using less colour contrast. Bungie doesn't do that because they care more about crisp imagery and diverse, bold colour schemes. (This is part of why all the screen-space godrays in Destiny footage has me a little worried.)

[/b]

That last bit there...

I'm not entirely sure you should worry that much. I think godrays might fit well with the universe Bungie is trying to create. Do they fit well in Halo? Debatable. Could they fit well in a mythic-sci-fi feel that they are trying to create? Possibly.

There's always personal preference, of course, but from what I've seen, I think it works.

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Am I the only one around here

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 01:22 (4016 days ago) @ Lurono

That last bit there...

I'm not entirely sure you should worry that much. I think godrays might fit well with the universe Bungie is trying to create. Do they fit well in Halo? Debatable. Could they fit well in a mythic-sci-fi feel that they are trying to create? Possibly.

There's always personal preference, of course, but from what I've seen, I think it works.

I had the same thought. I think the godrays fit really well, especially considering it looks like there are going to be a lot more levels that feel like dungeons than in the Halo games.

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Am I the only one around here

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Saturday, March 30, 2013, 08:14 (4016 days ago) @ Xenos

And let's not forget the amazing "sun through the trees" godrays Halo:CE had.

Heck, Halo:CE had such an amazing light physics.

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Am I the only one around here

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 11:29 (4016 days ago) @ ZackDark

And let's not forget the amazing "sun through the trees" godrays Halo:CE had.

Hehehe. That was definitely a good application of that sort of effect, though it's not exactly the same thing that we're talking about, at least not in implementation details.

Heck, Halo:CE had such an amazing light physics.

It uses a lot of basic effects in a lot of mixed and matched ways to produce a very rich and diverse light scape.

At the core of it all is an unusually hard split in how the game handles static environmental lights versus dynamic lights. In particular, the fact that dynamic lights trigger neither reflection maps nor specular reflections on dynamic objects immediately produces a ton of interesting effects. For instance, light up a dark room with your flashlight, and the dead elites and whatnot will have an eery, ghostly appearance. That happens because of a bizarre choice in the lighting system to not trigger certain types of lighting with the flashlight.

At some level it's a really simple lighting system by todays standards, but gives crazy interesting results because of the weird ways in which the bits and pieces of the system interact with each other.

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Am I the only one around here

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 10:57 (4016 days ago) @ Lurono

That last bit there...

I'm not entirely sure you should worry that much. I think godrays might fit well with the universe Bungie is trying to create. Do they fit well in Halo? Debatable. Could they fit well in a mythic-sci-fi feel that they are trying to create? Possibly.

There's always personal preference, of course, but from what I've seen, I think it works.

I hope.

The thing with screen-space godrays is that they've started to become the next bloom. They're a cheap way of hazing over lack of detail for a more "polished" look, and can similarly easily become obnoxious. It's hard to use them as really good sunbeams because they swim around unnaturally due to how their sources are occluded (a sunbeam shouldn't vanish when its source is blocked from your vision), and they're not exactly lens flares because, well, they don't look like lens flares. They're just these weird hazes that swim around your view.

It's absolutely true that they can be used effectively, though. And I'd be more inclined to trust Bungie than most developers with stuff like this. I'm just going to have to see it and feel it in action before I'm sold.

Am I the only one around here

by kapowaz, Friday, March 29, 2013, 01:37 (4017 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Am I the only one around here wondering why, with all the other engines that were shown that completely outclass what we've seen of destiny so far, Bungie still insists on going with their own engine and not licensing? Say what you will about Bungie but their engine tech has always been middle of the road compared to other contemporary games.

Maybe because licensing a third-party engine isn't always such a great idea when you're building a multiplayer game. Personally I've never considered Bungie's game engines 'middle of the road'; games like the Call of Duty series have managed a smoother frame rate but usually that comes with a sacrifice to the scope of the environments you're fighting in. But since we're talking about aesthetics here maybe it'd be a good time to remind everyone that this stuff is highly subjective...?

Cody's obligatory contrarian comment fail

by scarab @, Friday, March 29, 2013, 04:07 (4017 days ago) @ Cody Miller

No, you are not the only person who has made a comment similar to this on this forum. You may be the only one who is still making comments like this but, I imagine that someone else will make that comment at some time in the future. There are X billion people alive on the planet, it's inevitable that some of them haven't already raised this issue before and will be along at some time in the future to make it again.

So you have company! :-)

You will need to come up with something far less obvious if you want to be the only one.


-PS It's not such a bad point, it's just old and answered before.

My take on it is that the guys at Bungie are adults and can make their own decisions. Most decisions in programming can be both wrong and right, it's generally not cut and dried. Bungie has weighed up the pros and cons and have decided that they want to maintain their own engine.

Will 343 continue using a version of Bungie's engine?

by scarab @, Friday, March 29, 2013, 04:42 (4017 days ago) @ Cody Miller

343 is an extra datum point. If they continue using it then we know that there are two companies that think that using this engine has merit.

343 has many experienced devs who are used to 3rd party engines, they could switch if they felt that maintaining a proprietary engine wasn't worth the effort and I suppose that they would have less emotional investment in the, formerly, Bungie engine.

Will 343 continue using a version of Bungie's engine?

by kapowaz, Friday, March 29, 2013, 05:06 (4017 days ago) @ scarab

343 is an extra datum point. If they continue using it then we know that there are two companies that think that using this engine has merit.

Unlikely. 343i have talked about how the Halo 4 engine is derived from the Halo Reach engine (and so in turn, from Halo 3, and probably Halo 2 in parts too). I can't imagine Bungie would do all this work only to license it — for one thing, servicing the support demands of a licensee would eat into resources they could otherwise dedicate to, y'know, making Destiny.

I wasn't talking about Bungie licensing it

by scarab @, Friday, March 29, 2013, 05:15 (4017 days ago) @ kapowaz

I meant that: given that 343 has it's own version of the Bungie engine - if 343 continue to use it - even though they have people with experience of other engines... then this would be a vote for the desirability of using a proprietary engine based on the Bungie engine.

I wasn't talking about Bungie licensing it

by kapowaz, Friday, March 29, 2013, 11:20 (4017 days ago) @ scarab

I meant that: given that 343 has it's own version of the Bungie engine - if 343 continue to use it - even though they have people with experience of other engines... then this would be a vote for the desirability of using a proprietary engine based on the Bungie engine.

I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying 343i should license the Destiny engine from Bungie? Because that is what I'm saying I doubt Bungie would be willing to do. Maybe I misunderstand you, though.

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Will 343 continue using a version of Bungie's engine?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, March 29, 2013, 10:06 (4017 days ago) @ scarab

343 has many experienced devs who are used to 3rd party engines, they could switch if they felt that maintaining a proprietary engine wasn't worth the effort and I suppose that they would have less emotional investment in the, formerly, Bungie engine.

I'm guessing it had more to do with maintaining the look and feel of Halo over anything else. An engine switch can really make a game 'feel' different, and they were under so much pressure from the fans to deliver a Halo like experience.

It will be interesting to see what they will use in Halo 5

by scarab @, Friday, March 29, 2013, 14:56 (4017 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I'm guessing it had more to do with maintaining the look and feel of Halo over anything else. An engine switch can really make a game 'feel' different, and they were under so much pressure from the fans to deliver a Halo like experience.

That inertia combined with having tool chains that may be engine specific is another reason to stick to what you know.

It sounds like destiny requires a lot of backend technical support and they may not want a double technical hit by also swapping engines at the same time.

I honestly think that once things are sufficiently complex then every technical decision will have elements that are wrong and elements that are right. You pick the options that you think will give you the most win but you understand that valid arguments can be made for the options that you decided not to go for.

So you are always wrong.... and right.

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Will 343 continue using a version of Bungie's engine?

by car15, Tuesday, April 02, 2013, 23:50 (4012 days ago) @ scarab

Isn't the Destiny engine completely new? 343 are using an upgraded version of the Reach engine.

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Will 343 continue using a version of Bungie's engine?

by biggy ⌂ @, Tinseltown, Wednesday, April 03, 2013, 00:35 (4012 days ago) @ car15

343 will probably continue to upgrade the engine they have now. Bungie probably used the Halo engine as a starting point and overhauled/upgraded it for Destiny.

343/Bungie are the only people that know for sure.

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Will 343 continue using a version of Bungie's engine?

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Wednesday, April 03, 2013, 00:43 (4012 days ago) @ car15

Isn't the Destiny engine completely new?

Hard to say. I mean, even if you know exactly how the development has been going, how do you classify something as a "new engine?" How much does someone have to leverage source code from a previous engine for the current engine to be or not be a "new" engine?

That said, it's at least probably different enough from Reach's engine that most people would consider it new. For instance, it's fairly certain that the lighting model is going to be quite different, and it's also very likely that there will be huge differences on the network engineering side due to it being a very coop-centric game. There's also been talk about efficient large-scale occlusion handling and such...
Bungie will doubtless have done plenty of Bungie engine work. They've just about always done it between major releases.

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Quantity has a quality all of its own, comrade.

by Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) ⌂ @, London, Ontario, Canada, Friday, March 29, 2013, 06:28 (4017 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Am I the only one around here wondering why, with all the other engines that were shown that completely outclass what we've seen of destiny so far, Bungie still insists on going with their own engine and not licensing? Say what you will about Bungie but their engine tech has always been middle of the road compared to other contemporary games.

I doubt that a licensed engine would suit Destiny's intention of an open, shared, and persistant world. Unreal Engine, for instance, gets a lot more detail but does so by sacrificing scope; maps in Gears of War were more detailed but immensely smaller than their equivalents in Halo. Gamebryo could handle the scale (if you don't mind details fading in from time to time) but I'm not impressed with how it handles character animation myself. I haven't seen much in Frostbite and so will reserve comment.

Also, there are certain business advantages to building your own engine... the pathelogical case being that Silicon Knights vs. Epic brouhaha a few years ago.

-- Steve's fairly confident in the abilities of Bungie's software engineers; they've been walking this tightrope for a couple decades now.

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Quantity has a quality all of its own, comrade.

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Sunday, April 07, 2013, 21:15 (4007 days ago) @ Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)
edited by General Vagueness, Sunday, April 07, 2013, 21:18

I have an assignment due Tuesday on the benefits and drawbacks of an organization building or buying software they need. Life is funny sometimes. (Other times it's annoying, like when I'm looking up specs for accounting software in the middle of the night for that same class.)

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Am I the only one around here

by RC ⌂, UK, Friday, March 29, 2013, 08:40 (4017 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Am I the only one around here wondering why, with all the other engines that were shown that completely outclass what we've seen of destiny so far, Bungie still insists on going with their own engine and not licensing? Say what you will about Bungie but their engine tech has always been middle of the road compared to other contemporary games.

Engine licences can run hundreds of thousands if not millions of $ and sometimes a percentage of revenue too. So there is certainly a cost implication.

You also have to learn someone else's content creation pipeline that is built to either be generic or for a type of game that yours is not. So there is a re-training implication.

Having an engine already up and running from previous projects, that evolves over the course of the development, gives them a space to prototype in rapidly: something that would be set back by having to learn the ins and outs of a new engine and port over all the content.

In-house engine and tools developers at Bungie can create bespoke solutions based upon existing working practices, culture and demands. They can respond quickly, be there in-person to discuss issues, features, work through problems and help the teams.

Maybe their graphics have never been uber-top-of-the-line, they've always looked great, supported the game's mechanics and feel (rather than being 'another-unreal-engine-game') and most importantly (to me) they've packed them with features that many other games simply don't care about. Re: gametype customisation, replays et al.

Destiny may share a lot of things with other games, but at the same time it's mix of things is a bit different from everything else. Even if they did licence an engine, they'd still have to hammer it into the shape they wanted - which would still involve a lot of work.

Flexibility

by electricpirate @, Friday, March 29, 2013, 11:47 (4017 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I dunno, I'd put Reach in the top 10% of games visually from the previous Generation. It had a couple of issues, but I was pretty consistently wowed by it.

All that being said, Bungie gets a ton of flexibility out of using their own engine. They aren't tied to a single tool set. I mean, check out that Grognok video from the show last night. That's not something that you can just buy unreal and plop into your game.

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Hnnnngg!

by Mr Daax ⌂ @, aka: SSG Daax, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 22:49 (4017 days ago) @ rliebherr

SO. MUCH..... EVERYTHING. To be honest, I would be absolutely content with the info I now have and nothing more before playing the game.....Okay, a little gameplay wouldn't hurt. They've hinted at just enough to make me want more, yet I still don't quite know exactly what's going on. I just know it looks abso-frickin-lutely amazing and I want in.

Also, that Exo postcard is my favorite character concept art, but I'm gonna have a tough time choosing. THEY ALL LOOK SO AWESOME!

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AND DAT MUSIC!!!

by Mr Daax ⌂ @, aka: SSG Daax, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 22:53 (4017 days ago) @ Mr Daax

- No text -

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AND DAT MUSIC!!!

by Tawpgun, Friday, March 29, 2013, 11:58 (4017 days ago) @ Mr Daax

This is what I was gonna post. Lots of stuff we've seen before more or less but the music FLOORED me.

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Speculation Update Time!

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 23:03 (4017 days ago) @ rliebherr

Having just finished the GDC panel video I think it's time for a Speculation Update.*

1. Not just Humans anymore!

I'd been approaching all my Destiny speculation from the perspective that all the players would be Human. Different classes with different armor, abilities, and guns, sure, but Humans none the less. That's all the available data supported, until now. But now things are very different. And exciting!

- These three races apparently coexist in The Last City… at least well enough for all three to serve as Guardians. I'd guess they were all Human once, but the events of Destiny's past, and perhaps The Traveler, changed all that… Except… Robots? And not just mindless automatons! Judging from the Exo's "postcard" concept art, of it slumped against a wall after a battle, they feel. Are they self aware? Are they alive? Or is Bungie giving us the chance to play a race that is neither? Wouldn't that be interesting?! :) The Awakened I'm more guessing that they've been either affected by whatever war knocked Humanity down, or that they're Traveler Infused++. Either way I'm guessing they're "human", just different. Of course they may literally be space elves. Who knows?! :)

2. Concept Art = Concept Reality.

One of the most impressive things I saw during the talk was Grognok. I'm no game developer. Maybe all games are developed like this. But by the way it was talked about, I don't think so. What impressed the most though, apart from fiddling with the time of day slider, was the apparent ease of going from the concept art to the working, lit, almost playable looking, finished product. Maybe the moon base was nothing to write home about (I think it was pretty cool, but whatevers) but now take a step back and look at all the concept art we've seen so far. If all of that can be turned into gameplay quality environments as easily as the moon base was… then WOW!! We're going to have something awesome on our hands!

3. Mythic Scifi.

The concept, as shown so far, looks amazing. I always though of fantasy as science fiction with magic replacing the technology, or scifi as fantasy with technology in place of magic. Why not have both? This should lead to some pretty interesting abilities and play style choices. This could get very interesting.

*Pronounce with reverb when at all possible, thanks.

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Speculation Update Time!

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 23:10 (4017 days ago) @ Ragashingo

2. Concept Art = Concept Reality.

One of the most impressive things I saw during the talk was Grognok. I'm no game developer. Maybe all games are developed like this. But by the way it was talked about, I don't think so. What impressed the most though, apart from fiddling with the time of day slider, was the apparent ease of going from the concept art to the working, lit, almost playable looking, finished product. Maybe the moon base was nothing to write home about (I think it was pretty cool, but whatevers) but now take a step back and look at all the concept art we've seen so far. If all of that can be turned into gameplay quality environments as easily as the moon base was… then WOW!! We're going to have something awesome on our hands!

I don't want to rain on the parade, because the Grognok demo is extremely cool, but it bears mentioning that one of the reasons it was constructed so fast is that Grognok focuses on enabling fast construction and iteration with very modular designs.

The base was able to be made quickly because it was made from a surprisingly small number of pieces that already existed. They were painstakingly constructed prior to the base's assembly in Grognok. If something totally unique needs to be placed somewhere, and artist is going to have to go make it in a modeling tool.
Basically, you can't just present arbitrary art and have it turned into high-quality environment in half an hour. Someone is still going to have to build any new assets.

Not that I think this is a terrible thing. I love Halo 1's environments, and they use tons and tons of modularity as well.

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Speculation Update Time!

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 23:17 (4017 days ago) @ uberfoop

Don't worry, I always carry an umbrella. :)

Yeah, the main base structure, and the rocks, were obviously pre-modeled, but the ability to go from nothing to a finished (and fully lit?) scene seemed pretty amazing. I loved the adding of the little rocks around the larger boulders. It would be interesting to see the Grognok process compared to what Bungie had previously though. In some ways I feel more impressed because what was shown looked neat, and not because I, as a non game developer, have a whole lot to contrast it with.

Speculation Update Time!

by scarab @, Friday, March 29, 2013, 04:19 (4017 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Don't worry, I always carry an umbrella. :)

Yeah, the main base structure, and the rocks, were obviously pre-modeled, but the ability to go from nothing to a finished (and fully lit?) scene seemed pretty amazing. I loved the adding of the little rocks around the larger boulders. It would be interesting to see the Grognok process compared to what Bungie had previously though. In some ways I feel more impressed because what was shown looked neat, and not because I, as a non game developer, have a whole lot to contrast it with.

Didn't Ubisoft have a really cool world building tool that they made available to users? Was it a Far Cry 'forge' tool? That looked amazing and was out years ago.

I wonder if Bungie intends to release Grognok to the community to see what they could add to the game.

Speculation Update Time!

by scarab @, Friday, March 29, 2013, 04:15 (4017 days ago) @ uberfoop

Some of the resources were labeled Patterns and some were labeled Prefabs. I wonder if the names are significant. Are patterns procedurally generated? I could be reading too much into a name :-)

343 has also emphasized that they have made their own content authoring changes to the Reach tool chain that they inherited from Bungie. I don't know enough about the various tools to make an informed judgment about Grognok but it did look fun. :-)

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Speculation Update Time!

by Quirel, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 02:14 (4016 days ago) @ Ragashingo

3. Mythic Scifi.

The concept, as shown so far, looks amazing. I always though of fantasy as science fiction with magic replacing the technology, or scifi as fantasy with technology in place of magic.

Nah. Two are at completely opposite ends of the spectrum, or so I like to think.
Science fiction is the extrapolation of what's possible into the realm of probable. It is a mirror to study ourselves, our relationship with technology and the universe.

Fantasy has orcs.

More seriously, I think that the two genres share some fundamental differences (though, there's some blurring and no hard boundaries between the two, as fiction is wont to do) and the biggest line is: Does magic exist in the story?
If yes, then it's fantasy. If no, then it's science fiction (or other). A lot of fantasy has adopted elements of steampunk with steam-powered or magic-powered technology. Science fiction, on the other hand... well, telepathy and Sufficiently Advanced Technology aside, magic doesn't exist or doesn't drive the plot.

Don't bring up Star Wars. That's just fantasy set in space.

Now answer me this: Does fantasy have an equivalent to 'hard science fiction'?

Why not have both?

That's called Fantasy.

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Speculation Update Time!

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 02:43 (4016 days ago) @ Quirel
edited by Xenos, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 02:47

Why not have both?


That's called Fantasy.

I disagree with the idea that you can't have both personally. Having extrapolation of current technology can be done while also having magic. From what you said it seems you are saying that fantasy overrules science fiction. "Oh there is magic, therefore it is fantasy never mind the science fiction elements." If that is true than quite a few of Isaac Asimov's stories crossed over into the realm of fantasy instead of science fiction. Why is fantasy the "stronger" genre? Why does it have to be one or the other? What's wrong with saying it is "Science Fiction with some Fantasy elements?" The main reason I bring it up though is because even Bungie has said "you could call it magic" as if to imply it has a scientific explanation of some kind. And as Arthur C. Clarke said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Speculation Update Time!

by scarab @, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 03:54 (4016 days ago) @ Xenos

And as Arthur C. Clarke said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

And I bet he regretted saying it. :-)

Anyway, the soul story tells us that they aren't too worried about tying their fiction to reality. Joe tried but gave into: exploding souls are cool.

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Speculation Update Time!

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Saturday, March 30, 2013, 08:25 (4016 days ago) @ Xenos

Basically, because the term "science fiction" implies a big degree of, well, science backing it up, even if it is a science differing from ours. As soon as you introduce something not even the science in said story can back up (no, midichlorians don't count), it crosses the boundary out of science fiction.

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Speculation Update Time!

by Quirel, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 08:28 (4016 days ago) @ Xenos

I disagree with the idea that you can't have both personally.

I disagree as well. I'm just saying that fantasy with technology is fantasy. Terry Brook's books, despite being set in the distant future of a nuclear holocaust, are fantasy. World of WarCraft, despite the gnome-built machines, is pure fantasy.

The other way around: The Engineer Trilogy takes place in a constructed world with a medieval setting. There is no magic, only briefly mentioned myths. There is no high technology, nothing more complicated than a simple clockwork doll.
That is science fiction.

Having extrapolation of current technology can be done while also having magic.

I can think of two examples.

StarCraft started out as science fiction with psionics. As psionics and prophecies rose to the fore, StarCraft has fallen into fantasy.

Mass Effect has biotics filling the role usually occupied by mages. Biotics, however, is 'unobtainium.' The writers sat down, thought of what they needed eezo to do, and mapped out how it would affect the setting.

Some people do the same thing with magic systems, crafting entire rulebooks governing how magic works. Partly, I think this is missing the point of magic. Partly, I think this is a little overdone. But mostly, I'm tired of seeing some of my fellow writers spend more time crafting those rulebooks than fleshing out their characters.

I mean, yeah, that system you worked out for how the lunar phases govern the strength and flavor of magic is pretty neat. But your protagonist is still an unlikable pratt.

From what you said it seems you are saying that fantasy overrules science fiction. "Oh there is magic, therefore it is fantasy never mind the science fiction elements."

Good to know that I'm communicating effectively.
I did mention that there was no clear border between the two. I'm just rejecting the argument that technology exclusively makes science fiction.

If that is true than quite a few of Isaac Asimov's stories crossed over into the realm of fantasy instead of science fiction.

So? C.S. Lewis wrote science fiction as well.

Why is fantasy the "stronger" genre? Why does it have to be one or the other? What's wrong with saying it is "Science Fiction with some Fantasy elements?"

Because I don't think "Machines = Science Fiction, Dwarves = Fantasy" is a good way to sort my bookshelf. =D

And as Arthur C. Clarke said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

"Of course technology is distinguishable from magic. Technology works!"

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Speculation Update Time!

by Stephen Laughlin ⌂ @, Long Beach, CA, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 09:23 (4016 days ago) @ Quirel

I think this discussion is interesting. I'm really intrigued by the historical setting that the Destiny universe takes place in, though. Instead of placing us in a period concurrent with the height of humanity's technological achievement as so often occurs in scifi, we're introduced to the world at a point far later when much of that knowledge has probably been lost to the ages. Humanity has come to the brink of collapse and subsequently recovered following a devastating catastrophe, but even that is ancient history. What remains of our technological golden age is largely passed down through myth and legend.

This gives the universe a really juicy mythological Lord of The Rings sort of feel where you know there are mysteries in the margins--perhaps outside of the scope of the story--that could definitely be explained and analyzed to death if only there were someone who still carried that ancient knowledge. It allows the writers a lot of freedom while perhaps making for a richer, more imaginative experience. Some things are better left open to interpretation. The unexplained is often more interesting to me than the explained. I'm not sure if this signifies fantasy or what, but at a certain point I think it just comes down to an argument of semantics.

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Speculation Update Time!

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 14:58 (4016 days ago) @ Stephen Laughlin
edited by Xenos, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 15:04

This gives the universe a really juicy mythological Lord of The Rings sort of feel where you know there are mysteries in the margins--perhaps outside of the scope of the story--that could definitely be explained and analyzed to death if only there were someone who still carried that ancient knowledge. It allows the writers a lot of freedom while perhaps making for a richer, more imaginative experience. Some things are better left open to interpretation. The unexplained is often more interesting to me than the explained. I'm not sure if this signifies fantasy or what, but at a certain point I think it just comes down to an argument of semantics.

Yeah I absolutely agree with that sentiment. I also think it's too early to claim which genre Destiny is since they haven't gone into detail about how the "magic" works. Maybe they won't, which definitely leaves it more in the realm of fantasy, or maybe they'll use the Traveler to provide some kind of Unobtanium like Quirel talked about, we just have to wait and see.

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Screaming souls catastrophically evacuating someone's skull

by Mr Daax ⌂ @, aka: SSG Daax, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 23:19 (4017 days ago) @ rliebherr
edited by Mr Daax, Thursday, March 28, 2013, 23:46

Yeah

[image]

Screaming souls catastrophically evacuating someone's skull

by NsU Soldier @, Washington, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 06:49 (4016 days ago) @ Mr Daax

Yeah

[image]

I think that was my favorite line of any panel I have ever seen.

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Destiny at GDC

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Friday, March 29, 2013, 01:23 (4017 days ago) @ rliebherr

This was probably my favorite tweet while the GDC Panel was happening from none other then The Elder:

"I bet DBO will have a lot to discuss after this. Should hold them for at least a few hours."
-@MartyTheElder

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Unknown enemy race

by Mr Daax ⌂ @, aka: SSG Daax, Friday, March 29, 2013, 08:48 (4017 days ago) @ rliebherr

[image]

So, is it me, or is there another enemy race that we don't know about? If my guess is right, in the above picture the red concept represents the Vex, the grey represents the Cabal, the green represents the Fallen, and the yellow represents the Hive. What about the blue one? Unless the Fallen ended up being a combination of the blue and green concept pieces? And if Bungie really is holding back an enemy race, why? Do they have something to do with the onyx pyramids, or the hellmouth on the moon? There was the name "glimmer" that Bungie trademarked along with the name "hive." Could that be their name?

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Unknown enemy race

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, March 29, 2013, 09:04 (4017 days ago) @ Mr Daax

Possibly.

# 3 reminds me of the large grey rectangular buildings of Vogsphere. The Cabal warrior with his helmet off even looked a good bit like a Vogon!

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Unknown enemy race

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Friday, March 29, 2013, 09:45 (4017 days ago) @ Mr Daax

Go back and look at the faction shirts. Eye of Horus for the yellow, methinks. I want to say green is the Hive. Black triangles in the sky speak to me of floating obsidian pyramids, ya dig?

~M

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Agree.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, March 29, 2013, 09:51 (4017 days ago) @ Malagate

- No text -

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Unknown enemy race

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Friday, March 29, 2013, 09:52 (4017 days ago) @ Malagate

Blue is the Fallen, almost definitely. Think about the small Traveller-esque orb leading the spider tank detail in the first Fallen image we saw. Each of these banners breaks down the races, from orbit to ground troops. They have some tech that evokes the traveller, and I think that's what we see here. Plus, nothing like walking tanks in any of the other banners.

~M

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Unknown enemy race

by Mr Daax ⌂ @, aka: SSG Daax, Friday, March 29, 2013, 12:19 (4017 days ago) @ Malagate

Blue is the Fallen, almost definitely. Think about the small Traveller-esque orb leading the spider tank detail in the first Fallen image we saw. Each of these banners breaks down the races, from orbit to ground troops. They have some tech that evokes the traveller, and I think that's what we see here. Plus, nothing like walking tanks in any of the other banners.

Yeah, I also thought of that; but the green banner has the whole soul-escaping-the-skull thing going on, which I thought was an attribute of the Fallen.

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Unknown enemy race

by TDSpiral ⌂ @, TDS Gaming Shack, WA, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 10:12 (4016 days ago) @ Mr Daax

Blue is the Fallen, almost definitely. Think about the small Traveller-esque orb leading the spider tank detail in the first Fallen image we saw. Each of these banners breaks down the races, from orbit to ground troops. They have some tech that evokes the traveller, and I think that's what we see here. Plus, nothing like walking tanks in any of the other banners.


Yeah, I also thought of that; but the green banner has the whole soul-escaping-the-skull thing going on, which I thought was an attribute of the Fallen.

I think the green one is actually Hive- the color scheme makes sense for space zombies.

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Unknown enemy race

by SigbiasSilva @, West Midlands, England, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 10:24 (4016 days ago) @ TDSpiral

Blue is the Fallen, almost definitely. Think about the small Traveller-esque orb leading the spider tank detail in the first Fallen image we saw. Each of these banners breaks down the races, from orbit to ground troops. They have some tech that evokes the traveller, and I think that's what we see here. Plus, nothing like walking tanks in any of the other banners.


Yeah, I also thought of that; but the green banner has the whole soul-escaping-the-skull thing going on, which I thought was an attribute of the Fallen.


I think the green one is actually Hive- the color scheme makes sense for space zombies.

It was discussed at the GDC presentation that the soul escaping, the beam of light seen in the green image, is an aspect of The Fallen.

Unless it was once attributed to another race, such as The Hive, and later swapped onto another race - the concept art still reflecting what once was prior to the change.

That said, I definitely agree that the blue imagery seems more fitting of what we've seen of The Fallen, and the green for The Hive/Space Zombies. I'm almost certain the escaping soul was just shifted over to another race once their lore become more fleshed out.

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Unknown enemy race

by Mr Daax ⌂ @, aka: SSG Daax, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 10:56 (4016 days ago) @ SigbiasSilva

Blue is the Fallen, almost definitely. Think about the small Traveller-esque orb leading the spider tank detail in the first Fallen image we saw. Each of these banners breaks down the races, from orbit to ground troops. They have some tech that evokes the traveller, and I think that's what we see here. Plus, nothing like walking tanks in any of the other banners.


Yeah, I also thought of that; but the green banner has the whole soul-escaping-the-skull thing going on, which I thought was an attribute of the Fallen.


I think the green one is actually Hive- the color scheme makes sense for space zombies.


It was discussed at the GDC presentation that the soul escaping, the beam of light seen in the green image, is an aspect of The Fallen.

Unless it was once attributed to another race, such as The Hive, and later swapped onto another race - the concept art still reflecting what once was prior to the change.

That said, I definitely agree that the blue imagery seems more fitting of what we've seen of The Fallen, and the green for The Hive/Space Zombies. I'm almost certain the escaping soul was just shifted over to another race once their lore become more fleshed out.

Looking at the pictures again, I definitely agree with you guys. I was caught up on the Fallen's soul-escaping-skull attribute and was trying to reconcile that with the concept art. But it still leaves an unknown race, represented by the yellow concept work. The triangles in the artwork could represent the onyx pyramid ships, but now I'm really curious what the black, misty stuff represents?

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Unknown enemy race

by SigbiasSilva @, West Midlands, England, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 11:09 (4016 days ago) @ Mr Daax

But it still leaves an unknown race, represented by the yellow concept work. The triangles in the artwork could represent the onyx pyramid ships, but now I'm really curious what the black, misty stuff represents?

I wonder if the misty stuff is at all related to this?

[image]

Hmmm...

Unknown enemy race

by Wakko45, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 11:14 (4016 days ago) @ SigbiasSilva

Ooo I'd say your on to something. You wouldn't happen to remember a caption or discussion from Bungie of that picture off the top of your head would you?

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Unknown enemy race

by SigbiasSilva @, West Midlands, England, Sunday, March 31, 2013, 03:43 (4015 days ago) @ Wakko45

Ooo I'd say your on to something. You wouldn't happen to remember a caption or discussion from Bungie of that picture off the top of your head would you?

Oh, it's from the PS4 announcement, while Jason Jones talks about an exciting new universe of mystery and adventure with contagious enthusiasm!

That shot really stood out to me though, and I was instantly reminded of it after seeing the misty funk in the yellow image.

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Unknown enemy race

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Monday, April 01, 2013, 05:06 (4014 days ago) @ SigbiasSilva

There's also still the matter of the creature that looks like some sort of chained beast. I believe it can be seen in (what i believe to be) the Hellmouth interior during the PS4 announcement footage, and very briefly (unskinned) at the beginning of the GDC character design video.

I'll try to post some shots later in the day, but I've yet to see anyone point it out. I suspect it may have to do with the as-of-yet-unnamed fifth race.

~M

Unknown enemy race

by kapowaz, Monday, April 01, 2013, 05:44 (4014 days ago) @ Malagate

There's also still the matter of the creature that looks like some sort of chained beast. I believe it can be seen in (what i believe to be) the Hellmouth interior during the PS4 announcement footage, and very briefly (unskinned) at the beginning of the GDC character design video.

I went back to look at this, as I was sure it was just a Hive character, but having looked at both I'm no longer quite so sure:

[image]

The untextured version above as it appears in the character development video shows several clear physical traits that distinguish it from what I initially assumed it to be; a Cabal race creature. The head is too big for that, and there is the exposed ribcage to consider too.

Here's the announcement trailer shot:

[image]

And zoomed in:

[image]

Now, what I'm wondering is whether this truly is the mysterious fifth race, or if it's actually something else. One thing I've seen mentioned in interviews is this idea that The Hive are sort of like The Flood, in that they consume other races — certainly the aesthetic of this character is similar to the Hive ‘drones’ (if that's what they're called), and the setting for the ‘chained beast’ has a lot of details that could be interpreted as being connected with The Hive (hanging cocoons, ethereal giant cobwebs etc.) Is this actually a Cabal member who has been ‘infected’? Or is it another race entirely?

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Unknown enemy race

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Monday, April 01, 2013, 06:00 (4014 days ago) @ kapowaz

Yep, good questions, all. Thanks for doing the legwork. ;)

~M

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Unknown enemy race

by Mr Daax ⌂ @, aka: SSG Daax, Monday, April 01, 2013, 10:19 (4014 days ago) @ kapowaz

One thing I've seen mentioned in interviews is this idea that The Hive are sort of like The Flood, in that they consume other races — certainly the aesthetic of this character is similar to the Hive ‘drones’ (if that's what they're called), and the setting for the ‘chained beast’ has a lot of details that could be interpreted as being connected with The Hive (hanging cocoons, ethereal giant cobwebs etc.) Is this actually a Cabal member who has been ‘infected’? Or is it another race entirely?

[image]

On this note, check out the Hive guy behind and to the right of the "undead royalty." Four arms?

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Unknown enemy race

by SigbiasSilva @, West Midlands, England, Monday, April 01, 2013, 10:36 (4014 days ago) @ Mr Daax

Damn, how'd I miss that one? That image just gets cooler and cooler!

Unknown enemy race

by kapowaz, Monday, April 01, 2013, 14:26 (4014 days ago) @ Mr Daax

On this note, check out the Hive guy behind and to the right of the "undead royalty." Four arms?

Yeah, so the Fallen can be infected too. I need to find the actual paragraph where this is discussed so we have the canonical reference…

Unknown enemy race

by Wakko45, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 11:12 (4016 days ago) @ SigbiasSilva

I just rewatched this part of the GDC panel and they never mentioned that the 'soul escaping' was an aspect of the Fallen.

Between transitioning between this picture of 5 races/soul escaping and the next pictures of more detailed sketches of the Fallen they say:
"these turned into more detailed silhouette studies from those sketches".

They aren't talking about specifically the Fallen, they're talking in general, that the sketches from the last slide turned into more detailed renderings. The Fallen just happen to be the first pictures in these next slides.


The Red frame is clearly the Vex, and the Grey clearly the Cabal. This leaves the Blue, Green and Yellow. I'd argue that the Blue is the Fallen considering it looks like they may have more than two arms but more importantly they have the little orbs leading these big vehicles just like we see in the picture of the Fallen and the Spidertank. Leaving the Yellow and Green pictures I'd say the Green with the "soul escaping" probably belongs to the Hive. The whole concept of souls escaping and space zombies just seems to belong together. Plus the green color palette seems like it would work for the Hive as well.

This only leaves the Yellow, with some mysterious triangles in the sky. If you guys listened to early in the GDC panel there was a picture of "Giant Onyx Pyramids" that they weren't allowed to say anything else about. The pyramids look like giant space ships and look very likely to be the triangles in the sky of the Yellow frame. I would argue that since they weren't allowed to talk about the "Giant Onyx Pyramids" any more then that this is probably a race that has not been disclosed yet.

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Unknown enemy race

by Mr Daax ⌂ @, aka: SSG Daax, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 11:33 (4016 days ago) @ Wakko45
edited by Mr Daax, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 11:36

I just rewatched this part of the GDC panel and they never mentioned that the 'soul escaping' was an aspect of the Fallen.

Between transitioning between this picture of 5 races/soul escaping and the next pictures of more detailed sketches of the Fallen they say:
"these turned into more detailed silhouette studies from those sketches".

They aren't talking about specifically the Fallen, they're talking in general, that the sketches from the last slide turned into more detailed renderings. The Fallen just happen to be the first pictures in these next slides.

Quote from one of the mailsacks

We’ll show you how incredible it feels to see a Fallen Captain’s ethereal soul rip from its body after you’ve dusted his crew with your Gravesend Mk. 28 Heavy Machinegun, shattered his absorption shield with a perfectly-placed pulse grenade, and delivered a final, thundering shot with your beloved hand cannon. We’ll show you how satisfying it is to tactically carve through the suppressing fire of a fortified Cabal war base with your fireteam, gouts of oil, geysers of steam, and shimmering loot punctuating your victory as you go.

Sounds like the soul-ripping is a quality of the Fallen, unless it ends up applying to all the enemies :)

Unknown enemy race

by Wakko45, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 12:00 (4016 days ago) @ Mr Daax

Ah ha, I must of missed that, thanks!

Strange Names?

by Wakko45, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 14:55 (4016 days ago) @ Wakko45

Random thought, but anyone else think of it weird how the Fallen and the Hive are named? Wouldn't it make more sense to give the name of "The Fallen" to Space Zombies (if they're zombies they've died or 'have fallen') and "The Hive" to the creatures with extra limbs? (Many bugs have extra sets of arms and form 'hives')

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Strange Names?

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Saturday, March 30, 2013, 16:56 (4016 days ago) @ Wakko45

Not really, IMO.

The Fallen look very noble (in the noble-born sense), so my head-canon is that they once had a sprawling empire and were quite humiliatingly and broadly known beaten down, only recently gaining power back.

The Hive look like they have some Queen-like individuals, which in my head-canon translated to a hivemind-like society.

Now, the VEX don't look that puzzled, so maybe they're supposed to leave us vexed. (ba-dum-tisch)

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Unknown enemy race

by Mr Daax ⌂ @, aka: SSG Daax, Friday, March 29, 2013, 12:31 (4017 days ago) @ Malagate

Go back and look at the faction shirts. Eye of Horus for the yellow, methinks. I want to say green is the Hive. Black triangles in the sky speak to me of floating obsidian pyramids, ya dig?

Eye of Horus...pyramids, yeah I dig :) So we think the t-shirts refer to enemy factions? Hmmm...what about the 7 Seraphs T-shirt? Human/good guy faction?

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Unknown enemy race

by zumphry ⌂ @, Friday, March 29, 2013, 13:41 (4017 days ago) @ Mr Daax

Eye of Horus...pyramids, yeah I dig :) So we think the t-shirts refer to enemy factions? Hmmm...what about the 7 Seraphs T-shirt? Human/good guy faction?

I unfortunately don't have a screencap, and this was probably pointed out in the many analyseeseses, but you can get a glimpse of the Seven Seraphs logo on a Guardian's helmet in the reveal trailer (@ 2:31):

Somewhat related and also pointed out many times, there's banners and ships with the New Monarchy logo on them in this new piece of concept art:

[image]

If I had to guess, Seven Seraphs and New Monarchy would probably swing to the "good guy" side more than bad, unless they're just sides you choose in Faction Wars or whatever mode(s) competitive play is*.

Or they're factions within the story that you choose with and get different objectives, challenges, and missions from — like every other MMO ever and like every one else has probably said.

*: Maybe the different factions reward you differently for winning matches or something similar if that's the case?

[insert crack pipe joke here]

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Unknown enemy race

by Mr Daax ⌂ @, aka: SSG Daax, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 10:45 (4016 days ago) @ zumphry

Somewhat related and also pointed out many times, there's banners and ships with the New Monarchy logo on them in this new piece of concept art:

Yeah, my bad. In my excitement I just ran with the idea without giving it much thought.

unless they're just sides you choose in Faction Wars or whatever mode(s) competitive play is*.

As of right now, I am inclined to think that this is the case.

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Unknown enemy race

by zumphry ⌂ @, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 14:59 (4016 days ago) @ Mr Daax

Somewhat related and also pointed out many times, there's banners and ships with the New Monarchy logo on them in this new piece of concept art:


Yeah, my bad. In my excitement I just ran with the idea without giving it much thought.

Oh, I didn't mean "and also pointed out many times" as a poke at you. Said that to give credit to people who noticed that before I did. Plus, flying by the seat of your pants is always fun. :-)

(but I think I'm the first to notice the Seven Seraphs logo on the helmet...maybe)

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Unknown enemy race

by Mr Daax ⌂ @, aka: SSG Daax, Saturday, March 30, 2013, 15:21 (4016 days ago) @ zumphry

Oh, I didn't mean "and also pointed out many times" as a poke at you.

Thanks :) Hard to tell when someone is serious or not sometimes, myself included. I'll go back and reread something I wrote and think, "Man, I sure sound like a jerk (idiot, moron, know-it-all)," when I totally didn't mean it that way.

Plus, flying by the seat of your pants is always fun. :-)

It doesn't always end up well, but definitely fun :)

[image]

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