The Next Generation of Xbox - May 21st reveal

http://majornelson.com/2013/04/24/xboxreveal/
It's official! Why do you guys hope it holds? Discuss!!!

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http://majornelson.com/2013/04/24/xboxreveal/
It's official! Why do you guys hope it holds? Discuss!!!

I don't really have hopes for it, but I am very excited to see what Microsoft reveals, what with all the rumors recently. With Destiny being on both PS4 and (nextgen)Xbox, I don't really feel any console loyalty and will probably end up choosing the one that offers me the most as a gamer.

The only bummer I feel is this: what about the LAN parties? Having come late to the bungie.org party, I have missed out on all the awesome LANs, and couldn't quite afford to make it to the most recent HBO LANs. But when Destiny gets here, on multiple platforms, how will that work for a party? Will there just be console specific Destiny parties? Or bring-your-own-console-and-hope-for-the-best parties? Sorry if this comes across as really negative, I surely don't mean it that way :) It's just one of very few downsides I see with Destiny.

Unless the entire community agrees on one platform, then there are no worries!

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I'm really hoping there is good news on the ability to still have LANs. I'm glad this community has been able to do multiple LANs this year and I want that to continue to grow.

As far as the new features, I want to see the controller. I've stayed away from the playstations because I never could get comfortable with the controllers. Xbox controllers feel a lot better to me and I'm hoping they keep that up. The one thing I would request is a new version of the old Duke controllers for those of us with big hands.

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As far as the new features, I want to see the controller. I've stayed away from the playstations because I never could get comfortable with the controllers. Xbox controllers feel a lot better to me and I'm hoping they keep that up. The one thing I would request is a new version of the old Duke controllers for those of us with big hands.

Absolutely. While I don't think we'll see a new one, I loved the Duke back in the day. They had to drag me kicking and screaming to the 360 controller, but I got used to it pretty fast.

I hope Microsoft knocks the new controller out of the park. The 360's controller feels great so I don't expect to see a huge change. I'm hoping for new materials and upgrades to the tactile feedback of the buttons.

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I hope Microsoft knocks the new controller out of the park. The 360's controller feels great so I don't expect to see a huge change. I'm hoping for new materials and upgrades to the tactile feedback of the buttons.

I'm mostly hoping they move the battery pack to a less annoying place. I am one of the few people that was annoyed because your fingers jam up against it. I wouldn't even mind an internal rechargeable (li-ion) battery. As long as it is replaceable with a simple screw driver I don't see any downsides. And please keep analog triggers.

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Ahahaha.

For cereal though, the controller will definitely be the deciding factor for me as well. That said, Microsoft would really have to drop the ball for me to prefer the ps4 controller. Something about the joysticks of the ps controllers being in the same horizontal plane throws me for a loop.

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Oh I'm sorry, what? I'd been playing Bioshock Infinite on my Mac Pro. Nobody told me I couldn't do that.

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Oh I'm sorry, what? I'd been playing Bioshock Infinite on my Mac Pro. Nobody told me I couldn't do that.

Yeah, the whole "Macs don't play games" line of thought has always been confusing to me as well. I've been playing games on my Mac since back when I was like 8. It's never been an issue for me, some of my fondest memories as a gamer were a direct result of gaming on my old PowerMac.

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Oh I'm sorry, what? I'd been playing Bioshock Infinite on my Mac Pro. Nobody told me I couldn't do that.

Yeah, the whole "Macs don't play games" line of thought has always been confusing to me as well. I've been playing games on my Mac since back when I was like 8. It's never been an issue for me, some of my fondest memories as a gamer were a direct result of gaming on my old PowerMac.

Yeah I have 2 Macs myself, I still find it funny though. there are still about 3x as many games at least on PC though, which is why I also have a built PC just for gaming.

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Yeah I have 2 Macs myself, I still find it funny though. there are still about 3x as many games at least on PC though, which is why I also have a built PC just for gaming.

Bootcamp.

There are more games for Mac than PC, because you get all the Mac-only games as well as all the PC-only games.

The cost of the hardware for a given level of performance is another issue entirely, of course, and I'll head that one off at the pass by saying that nobody who owns a Mac gives a shit about your* home-built rig. That's why they bought a Mac in the first place.

*Edit: I wasn't specifically addressing Xenos with this; it just seems a trope for PC users to bang on about how they were able to build a state-of-the-art supercomputer for only $300 by buying the parts themselves. This is anathema to the vast majority of Mac users.

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The cost of the hardware for a given level of performance is another issue entirely, of course, and I'll head that one off at the pass by saying that nobody who owns a Mac gives a shit about your* home-built rig. That's why they bought a Mac in the first place.

Haha, I totally used to be that kind of Mac user... then my expenses for other things shot up and I had to decide how much I wanted to be a gamer. Luckily I still have a Macbook Pro and a Mac Mini I use as an HTPC, so pretty much all my computer use is from a Mac unless I am gaming.

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Yeah I have 2 Macs myself, I still find it funny though. there are still about 3x as many games at least on PC though, which is why I also have a built PC just for gaming.

Bootcamp.

There are more games for Mac than PC, because you get all the Mac-only games as well as all the PC-only games.

When you put it that way, you can also run Mac games on a PC. You can do it with an emulator or a virtual machine... but there can be legal issues and there pretty much will be performance issues, and it's out most people's comfort zone. You could do it like running PC games on a Mac like you described above... if Apple wasn't so touchy and restrictive about their software. You could just install OS X on your PC and run the games that way... if Apple wasn't equally touchy and restrictive about their hardware. You can still actually do that... but only if you have compatible components in your computer, and you need to use special software to mess with how your computer boots, which is something most people and even most relatively knowledgeable computer users shouldn't be messing with. This would be problem... if the Mac had more than a few (still functional) exclusive games that people had heard of, or better versions of multi-platform games. Also with your scenario you still have to make sure your Mac is fast enough and that the chips won't melt when you try to actually make the most of it.
(for the record, I know Microsoft does a lot of the same stuff; that doesn't make it any less bad)

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Relax Cody, it's fun to pick on Apple is all.

OT: I want to hang with you in RL. There's no way it could possibly be boring.

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Though, I'm a weirdo and I do like Apple stuff. But you always laugh at the PiPPiN. Always.

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Ahem!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Bandai_Pippin

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Absolutely. While I don't think we'll see a new one, I loved the Duke back in the day. They had to drag me kicking and screaming to the 360 controller, but I got used to it pretty fast.

I hope Microsoft knocks the new controller out of the park. The 360's controller feels great so I don't expect to see a huge change. I'm hoping for new materials and upgrades to the tactile feedback of the buttons.

I don't have big hands, and I loved the Duke!
(that's what she said)

Yeah, the S controller I wouldn't touch. The 360 controller though was just right at the right place between the two. I like the it a lot. Would still love to feel the Duke in my hands again though! twss

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Absolutely. While I don't think we'll see a new one, I loved the Duke back in the day. They had to drag me kicking and screaming to the 360 controller, but I got used to it pretty fast.

I hope Microsoft knocks the new controller out of the park. The 360's controller feels great so I don't expect to see a huge change. I'm hoping for new materials and upgrades to the tactile feedback of the buttons.

I don't have big hands, and I loved the Duke!
(that's what she said)

Yeah, the S controller I wouldn't touch. The 360 controller though was just right at the right place between the two. I like the it a lot. Would still love to feel the Duke in my hands again though! twss

Ah, I missed this post! Yeah, the 360 design strikes a nice balance but there was something about that veritable hippopotamus of controllers that just felt great. Maybe it's just nostalgia.

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Ever since its inception, the dualshock has been a SNES controller with weird little handles, analog sticks, and triggers basically duct-taped onto it. It's a very non-cohesive design that forces the player to claw the controller all funny. The convex analogue sticks are also not necessarily very attractive to Xbox gamers.

The new dualshock attempts to address all of those concerns. The controllers are topologically similar, but the DS4 has had its shape totally redesigned (or maybe just "designed" in the first place, as the earlier dualshock was an ancient design with things sloppily appended to it). The handles are designed to allow your hands to rest while your thumbs feel out the analogue sticks in a grip not terribly dissimilar to holding the right side of an Xbox gamepad. And the sticks themselves are concave.

I do like asymmetrical sticks, but I suspect the bigger issue has always been the awkward grip shape. That's being addressed, and the controller barrier scares me less than it has in the past.

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I do like asymmetrical sticks, but I suspect the bigger issue has always been the awkward grip shape. That's being addressed, and the controller barrier scares me less than it has in the past.

For me it has been more the looseness and dead zone of the sticks (which they claim they have addressed, but we'll have to wait to see for sure). I do like that they are taking some strides with the new controller, other than "Look we made it wireless and added motion controls!" like they did with the PS3, but unless those two concerns are addressed I will have serious issues with the controller still.

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I do like asymmetrical sticks, but I suspect the bigger issue has always been the awkward grip shape. That's being addressed, and the controller barrier scares me less than it has in the past.

Yes, yes! This! The worst thing about the previous versions was the shape of the grips. They were just sort of cones with the point rounded off. The sides were made up of straight lines, if that makes sense. I've seen in the shots of the DS4 that the grips have curves, very similar to the 360 controller. Which is the right way to go. Holding the old DualShocks for any substantial time was not comfortable.

Hadn't noticed that they changed to concave sticks, but you're right about that as well. Again, I feel this is the right way to go. There might be a few people out there who prefer convex, but I haven't met any of them. Even my friends who are really into their PS3s all think the controller sucks.

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Yes, yes! This! The worst thing about the previous versions was the shape of the grips. They were just sort of cones with the point rounded off. The sides were made up of straight lines, if that makes sense. I've seen in the shots of the DS4 that the grips have curves, very similar to the 360 controller. Which is the right way to go. Holding the old DualShocks for any substantial time was not comfortable.

Hadn't noticed that they changed to concave sticks, but you're right about that as well. Again, I feel this is the right way to go. There might be a few people out there who prefer convex, but I haven't met any of them. Even my friends who are really into their PS3s all think the controller sucks.

Another thing I notice is that the PS3 controller feels too light for me. I'm not sure why exactly, but I like that the 360 controller has a little bit of heft. Not so much weight that it's a problem over long gaming sessions, but enough that it feels comfortable in my hands. I hope the PS4 controller adds a little bit of weight.

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http://www.polygon.com/2013/4/25/4264848/ps4-dualshock-4-controller-sony-developer-discussion

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This sucker was the luxury car of controllers. The buttons were slow and unresponsive, the D-Pad was all but useless, the giant plastic dome on the front did absolutely nothing, it weighed about 500 pounds, but damn if it wasn't comfortable.

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This sucker was the luxury car of controllers. The buttons were slow and unresponsive, the D-Pad was all but useless, the giant plastic dome on the front did absolutely nothing, it weighed about 500 pounds, but damn if it wasn't comfortable.

Yeah I remember when it was announced being annoyed because it looked like a bloated Dreamcast controller, but to be honest, I thought the Dreamcast controller was the most uncomfortable controller to use in the world. Great controls, terrible comfort. Personally I still like the 360 controller the best for comfort. I think it's the first console controller that doesn't cramp my hands after about an hour that also happens to have fantastic button placement.

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Ever since its inception, the dualshock has been a SNES controller with weird little handles, analog sticks, and triggers basically duct-taped onto it. It's a very non-cohesive design that forces the player to claw the controller all funny.

It was based on a controller built for Japanese-sized hands. Remember how Microsoft had to release a special version of the original Xbox controller for the Japanese market because the Duke controller was just too big for them? The same applies in reverse. Sony are addressing it, though, which is cool.

That said, I still think the most comfortable game controller I've ever used is the Gamecube's, which obviously was meant for Japanese hands as well as western gamers.

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It was based on a controller built for Japanese-sized hands.

When I say "claw," I'm referring to how people use the sticks which the shape of the controller was very obviously not designed around using. The handles work okay with the basic d-pad and face buttons (they were the first addition, the initial differentiator from the SNES controller; elegance was easier when the design was very simple), but they're questionable for the triggers and analogue sticks.

It was built for Japanese-sized hands. But it has a lot of actual design problems.

Remember how Microsoft had to release a special version of the original Xbox controller for the Japanese market because the Duke controller was just too big for them?

Oh, you mean that Duke that almost everyone in the US hated as well?

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As far as the new features, I want to see the controller. I've stayed away from the playstations because I never could get comfortable with the controllers. Xbox controllers feel a lot better to me and I'm hoping they keep that up.

The 360 controller is certainly one of the best gamepads I've ever used and I sympathize somewhat.

But if you want to play a PS3 with a 360 style controller you can get adapters...

http://www.amazon.com/HDE%C2%AE-Xbox-Playstation-Controller-Adapter/dp/B007SO06O6

http://www.cronusdevice.com/cronus-device.html

Or a choose from a bevy of 360-style controllers. Some are even compatible with both Sony and Microsoft systems.

http://www.target.com/p/ps3-pro-elite-wireless-controller-playstation-3/-/A-13217769?ref=tgt_adv_XSG10001&AFID=Go...

http://www.powera.com/Browse/PROD_CTRLS/PLATFORM_PS3

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I've tried some of the 360 style controllers, I never liked any of them, but I've never seen the adapter, I may have to get one!

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The only bummer I feel is this: what about the LAN parties? Having come late to the bungie.org party, I have missed out on all the awesome LANs, and couldn't quite afford to make it to the most recent HBO LANs. But when Destiny gets here, on multiple platforms, how will that work for a party? Will there just be console specific Destiny parties? Or bring-your-own-console-and-hope-for-the-best parties? Sorry if this comes across as really negative, I surely don't mean it that way :) It's just one of very few downsides I see with Destiny.

No, it's a totally legitimate concern. I'm not seriously entertaining the idea of cross-platform play so this could be a real issue. And not just at LANs - my ability to play with people from this community could be affected all the time.

Given that much of this community is made up of Halo fans, if I had to guess I would think we will end up having at least a slight XBox majority, simply because many of us are already more invested in the XBox platform, and might lean toward getting a NextBox before getting a PS4. But that doesn't take into account the differences there might be between the consoles. If it turns out that the XBox is a movie/TV/music machine that just happens to game, whereas the PS4 is the more hardcore game machine, it is feasible we could see a migration. I imagine this will become more clear after the MS announcement next month.

I do want to add one thing which I think is relevant. I don't think we'll see cross-platform play, but depending on how much of your data is stored on Destiny's servers, it might be possible to play it in XBox, then switch over to a PS4 and play the same character. We'll have to see whether this is actually doable of course. And even if it is, there are problems - you'd have to buy two copies of the game, and you could still only play with one group at a time, so it's far from perfect.

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I do want to add one thing which I think is relevant. I don't think we'll see cross-platform play, but depending on how much of your data is stored on Destiny's servers, it might be possible to play it in XBox, then switch over to a PS4 and play the same character. We'll have to see whether this is actually doable of course. And even if it is, there are problems - you'd have to buy two copies of the game, and you could still only play with one group at a time, so it's far from perfect.

I am very much hoping this is the case, although I know it'll only cause me to buy the game twice. There would go my gaming budget for the month or two, haha.

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What do you guys hope it holds?

GAMES!

Also, fixed. :)

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Hoping Bungie is there, like they were at the PS4 announcement!

But I'm not expecting them to be there since E3 is so close to May 21st :P

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Hoping Bungie is there, like they were at the PS4 announcement!

But I'm not expecting them to be there since E3 is so close to May 21st :P

They might be, if I was Microsoft I would be begging them to come to the announcement, although they could probably get by if Microsoft said something like "We won't be making any game announcements until E3."

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Hoping Bungie is there, like they were at the PS4 announcement!

But I'm not expecting them to be there since E3 is so close to May 21st :P

It is going down in Redmond, WA, sooo... possibly??? But, I agree it seems too close to E3 for any substantial announcement. Maybe an Xbox announcement trailer similar to the PS4 announcement trailer. Enough to bide us over until E3.

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If Bungie is developing Destiny for both the current and next generation PlayStation consoles, I don't see why they wouldn't be following suit on Xbox. They wouldn't even need a big grand presentation or anything. A six mile drive up to Redmond from Bellevue for a simple "Hey, what's up! We're on this bitch too" would suffice.

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If Bungie is developing Destiny for both the current and next generation PlayStation consoles, I don't see why they wouldn't be following suit on Xbox. They wouldn't even need a big grand presentation or anything. A six mile drive up to Redmond from Bellevue for a simple "Hey, what's up! We're on this bitch too" would suffice.

If Microsoft really wants to one-up Sony, they'll put seven Bungie employees on stage behind Harold Ryan, all with their arms at their sides.

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Or they'll put the same number of people, only make them Fallen. Twice the amount of arms. Twice the destiny. Xbox.

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As long as we're talking about the reveal, The Verge has a nice summary of various leaks and known info here.

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I'VE WATCHED SIX SEASONS OF STAR TREK: TNG IN THE LAST MONTH, THOSE WORDS MEAN NOTHING ELSE. AAAAAAAAAAAAH.

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It's official! Why do you guys hope it holds?

Drinks.

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Yes. Mine, also, sits. Though vertical, in futile hope, next to my 360. It's only reason for existing being to play back the 5 HD-DVDs I own, movies for which I haven't purchased a BR copy.
I weep for it, for the idea was sound, and while forward thinking, also not forward thinking. I think MS really missed the boat by not releasing a BR add-on drive for this hardware generation. oh well.
Those of us with the drive now have an HD paper weight.

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It wouldn't surprise me with all of this next generation or the start of a generation talk. Next Xbox to be Xbox G? Xbox Gen? Xbox Generation?

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Unconfirmed rumors aside...

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I know they are just rumors, but Polygon posted information from a Microsoft source about the next XBox here.

This part is very interesting:
Currently, the console will support digital rights management and anti-piracy checks using an internet connection. Under Microsoft’s current guidelines, which may still be changed, the decision of whether a game will require an internet connection to work and if that is a one-time authentication or a constant connection, will be left up to individual publishers.

Definitely better than always on requirement for the console itself but still troubling.

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I know they are just rumors, but Polygon posted information from a Microsoft source about the next XBox here.

This part is very interesting:
Currently, the console will support digital rights management and anti-piracy checks using an internet connection. Under Microsoft’s current guidelines, which may still be changed, the decision of whether a game will require an internet connection to work and if that is a one-time authentication or a constant connection, will be left up to individual publishers.

Definitely better than always on requirement for the console itself but still troubling.

Not necessarily.

I can understand and agree to a one time verification process, that's no different than an activation code for most modern software anyway.

Also, if there are games coming out that require online to play anyway (such as an MMORPG) it doesn't matter in those cases- those players will be on regardless.

I do have a problem with it for games that don't have an online or MP component- example- I don't see why I should need to get online to play Bioshock 1 or Arkham Asylum or Portal.

I think leaving that decision in the hands of the publisher is a wise move- That would allow MS (and others such as Sony or Nintendo who might be watching) to essentially beta test some games but not ALL games using that mechanic.

Wait and see, I suppose.

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Not necessarily.

I can understand and agree to a one time verification process, that's no different than an activation code for most modern software anyway.

Also, if there are games coming out that require online to play anyway (such as an MMORPG) it doesn't matter in those cases- those players will be on regardless.

Oh I definitely agree. The thing I am worried about is definitely the last part you mention, that companies could require you to be online at all times to play their games even when the game is not an online game.

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Oh I definitely agree. The thing I am worried about is definitely the last part you mention, that companies could require you to be online at all times to play their games even when the game is not an online game.

I'm curious as to whether that means anything, actually. Technically speaking, it wouldn't even be that hard to program a game on 360 to require an internet connection.

If Microsoft doesn't have policies in-place to require that publishers not do that, the situation isn't much different than it already is.

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Oh I definitely agree. The thing I am worried about is definitely the last part you mention, that companies could require you to be online at all times to play their games even when the game is not an online game.

I'm curious as to whether that means anything, actually. Technically speaking, it wouldn't even be that hard to program a game on 360 to require an internet connection.

If Microsoft doesn't have policies in-place to require that publishers not do that, the situation isn't much different than it already is.

I would guess it would somehow be a feature built into the 720 that they can use if they so desire. That's how I interpreted it when I read it, but who knows. We'll find out in about a month.

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Generally speaking, I really like what Yahtzee posted this week. I'm not sure about what he says regarding the 'state of the industry,' simply because I don't know enough about it, but his 'desperate let's-see-what-we-can-get-away-with lunge from a dying beast' just rings true.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/10300-We-Really-Really-Dont-Need-New-Consoles

Anyway, there you go. Enjoy. Apologies if this was already posted, and I missed it.

/patiently awaits Destiny PC announcement.

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He is 100% right about the Wii U sadly, but he mentions that making a new console that makes it harder to develop for is never a winning strategy and talks about it as if it is true about the PS4 and XBox 720. From what has been announced about the PS4 though it'll be EASIER to develop for than the PS3 and from the rumors the 720 may end up being similar. I mean the PS3 is basically just a PC with a few bells and whistles. Who knows though, I could be wrong, we'll have to wait and see.

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He is 100% right about the Wii U sadly, but he mentions that making a new console that makes it harder to develop for is never a winning strategy and talks about it as if it is true about the PS4 and XBox 720. From what has been announced about the PS4 though it'll be EASIER to develop for than the PS3 and from the rumors the 720 may end up being similar. I mean the PS3 is basically just a PC with a few bells and whistles. Who knows though, I could be wrong, we'll have to wait and see.

Yeah. His article did seem a bit out of touch. Both Sony and Microsoft are supposedly going for decent but not totally groundbreaking PCish designs. And I'm excited for the new consoles because the additional RAM and processing power will help even PC games become bigger and better. So many games are multiplatform and the old creaky 512MB main RAM consoles have got to be holding the 16GB+ PC's back.

It sure would have been nice if Halo 4 and Destiny could have been held back a while longer to focus solely on the new hardware, profits and marketability be damned.

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When people talk about rising development costs due to new hardware, they're not referring to greater difficulty of developing a particular thing. They're talking about higher amount of stuff to be developed. It's not an unfounded concern; the amount of time spent developing and applying assets has increased substantially with each generation. The notion of several hundred people spending several years developing a game was nonsensical in the generation before this one, but now people don't bat an eye.

Whether that trend will continue as steeply is a worthwhile question, though. Development tools are always improving, and in a lot of ways graphics in the console space could be improved drastically and take *some* advantage of the new hardware with very little additional work.

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While not terribly surprising, we will definitely be seeing some game reveals at the May 21st event according to this article about the new CoD from Joystiq. I bring this up because it makes it more likely that we will see something of Destiny at the event, especially considering we now know Activision will be there for sure.

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I've noticed my left thumb starts to hurt before my right thumb if I'm only or almost only using them for the sticks, and I'm inclined towards putting that down under better, more natural placement. That's with the controller I have now, though, and maybe the last one. With some 360 controllers it's been the other way around, but it's always one side or the other. I really don't think you can have optimal placement of both sticks at different "heights" like on the 360 controller unless the person using the controller has two hands that are fairly different from each other (like probably asymmetrical). What would really be nice is if the sticks were in a good place, preferably lower down, and they got rid of the d-pad (I know, I'm attached to it too, but I never use it these days) and replaced it with some more buttons, hopefully ones that aren't annoying to reach, and hopefully I'd be able to get used to that.

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The Next Generation of Xbox - May 21st reveal