Why rewards always devalue the game experience
These thoughts are sort of a spinoff from the thread a few pages back. I'm going to try to express myself as best as I can, because that thread took me back and made me re-evaluate my positions. However it seems the more I thought about it, the more extreme my position became. Basically, It would seem that ALL rewards essentially undermine the enjoyment of a game.
When you think about what people do for fun, the entire reason for engaging in a leisure activity is that it's enjoyable. The activity itself. Just doing the activity is itself fun. Otherwise, it's not really a leisure activity. So, video games being a leisure activity, the fun should come from simply playing the game moment to moment, be that the thrill of combat, the joy discovery, problem solving, or whatever else the game offers.
However when there is a reward involved, this alters the ability of the player to enjoy the moment to moment pleasure of the game, simply because now instead of focusing on the present, the player has to focus on future. If you are driven to play because of that reward, this shift prevents the player from merely enjoying the present moment on its own, since the expectation is now that the present moment carries later on a future reward. Obviously if you are not driven to play because of the reward, the reward is unnecessary. So by playing for a reward, you are undermining the inherent value of the game's moment to moment pleasures.
I know somebody, probably Claude is going to say "Well, isn't level 2 a reward for finishing level 1?" No it's not. See, once you've completed a challenge, explored an area, or killed all the enemies, you can't really continue that moment to moment pleasure since there's nothing left to stimulate you. The moment to moment pleasure of discovery, fear or whatever else compelled you to play is gone. So, the game puts you in a different environment, with new challenges to tackle, new enemies to kill, or new areas to explore. In short, level progression is merely a way to ensure you can continue have moment to moment pleasure.
That's also why in a sense I don't enjoy actually beating games, because once it's over, that's the end of the inherent pleasure in playing. There are no more situations left.
So the more rewards there are in a game or the more complex the player investment system, the more the mere act of play is devalued. This has obvious implications for Destiny.
Complete thread:
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-19, 16:13
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
ZackDark,
2013-04-19, 17:00
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-20, 11:26
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
SonofMacPhisto,
2013-04-20, 12:01
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - stabbim, 2013-04-23, 09:09
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
SonofMacPhisto,
2013-04-20, 12:01
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-20, 11:26
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - RaichuKFM, 2013-04-19, 17:00
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Ragashingo,
2013-04-19, 17:42
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-19, 17:49
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Malagate, 2013-04-19, 18:13
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-19, 17:49
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Xenos, 2013-04-19, 18:53
- "Only a Miller deals in absolutes." -Oobedoob Benubi -
Leviathan,
2013-04-19, 20:18
- Worst thought out line ever in a movie -
ZackDark,
2013-04-19, 20:21
- Worst thought out [...] movie. -
Leviathan,
2013-04-19, 21:47
- Battles were pretty sweet, though -
ZackDark,
2013-04-19, 22:04
- Contradicts "Do or Do Not, There is No Try" -
RaichuKFM,
2013-04-20, 07:03
- And "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" -
Quirel,
2013-04-20, 22:50
- I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough. It gets everywhere -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-21, 13:06
- You don’t want to sell me death sticks. -
Xenos,
2013-04-21, 14:37
- "I thought they smelled bad on the outside." -
ZackDark,
2013-04-21, 16:20
- WRONG TRILOGY! How dare you... -
Leviathan,
2013-04-21, 19:14
- WRONG TRILOGY! How dare you... -
ZackDark,
2013-04-21, 21:58
- This thread is getting heavy, Doc. -
SonofMacPhisto,
2013-04-22, 08:24
- Is that a quote from VII? -
Xenos,
2013-04-22, 08:52
- We've been here before, -
Chewbaccawakka,
2013-04-22, 10:02
- It is a strange fate... -
Mr Daax,
2013-04-22, 22:26
- That is the sound of inevitability... - thebruce, 2013-04-24, 06:48
- It is a strange fate... -
Mr Daax,
2013-04-22, 22:26
- Is that a quote from VII? - Cody Miller, 2013-04-22, 10:45
- We've been here before, -
Chewbaccawakka,
2013-04-22, 10:02
- Is that a quote from VII? -
Xenos,
2013-04-22, 08:52
- This thread is getting heavy, Doc. -
SonofMacPhisto,
2013-04-22, 08:24
- WRONG TRILOGY! How dare you... -
ZackDark,
2013-04-21, 21:58
- WRONG TRILOGY! How dare you... -
Leviathan,
2013-04-21, 19:14
- Not just the men, but the WOMEN, and the CHILDREN too! -
Cold,
2013-04-22, 11:48
- Now THIS is Pod Racing! -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-22, 14:08
- It's working! It's workiiiiiiiing! -
ZackDark,
2013-04-22, 14:09
- Holy Nostalgia - katancik, 2013-04-22, 20:47
- Yippeee! - Quirel, 2013-04-22, 20:54
- It's working! It's workiiiiiiiing! -
ZackDark,
2013-04-22, 14:09
- Now THIS is Pod Racing! -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-22, 14:08
- "I thought they smelled bad on the outside." -
ZackDark,
2013-04-21, 16:20
- You don’t want to sell me death sticks. -
Xenos,
2013-04-21, 14:37
- I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough. It gets everywhere -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-21, 13:06
- And "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" -
Quirel,
2013-04-20, 22:50
- Contradicts "Do or Do Not, There is No Try" -
RaichuKFM,
2013-04-20, 07:03
- Battles were pretty sweet, though -
ZackDark,
2013-04-19, 22:04
- Worst thought out [...] movie. -
Leviathan,
2013-04-19, 21:47
- Worst thought out line ever in a movie -
ZackDark,
2013-04-19, 20:21
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Kalamari, 2013-04-20, 09:24
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - SonofMacPhisto, 2013-04-20, 10:58
- yes - Decom, 2013-04-20, 14:44
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-21, 05:49
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
ZackDark,
2013-04-21, 08:46
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-21, 09:09
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - ZackDark, 2013-04-21, 09:28
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - John Hopson, 2013-04-22, 07:27
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-21, 09:09
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-21, 09:09
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-21, 09:11
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-21, 09:32
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-21, 09:38
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
General Vagueness,
2013-05-09, 12:51
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Ragashingo, 2013-05-09, 13:13
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
General Vagueness,
2013-05-09, 12:51
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
RaichuKFM,
2013-04-21, 09:50
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Xenos, 2013-04-21, 12:34
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - SonofMacPhisto, 2013-04-21, 13:39
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
thebruce,
2013-04-24, 07:00
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Xenos,
2013-04-24, 07:40
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
thebruce,
2013-04-24, 08:01
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Xenos, 2013-04-24, 08:11
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
thebruce,
2013-04-24, 08:01
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Xenos,
2013-04-24, 07:40
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Claude Errera, 2013-05-09, 13:21
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-21, 09:38
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-21, 09:32
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-21, 09:11
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
kapowaz,
2013-04-22, 09:14
- The problem is... -
breitzen,
2013-04-22, 10:23
- The problem is... -
kapowaz,
2013-04-23, 01:43
- The problem is... -
breitzen,
2013-04-23, 08:27
- The problem is... -
Xenos,
2013-04-23, 10:04
- The problem is... -
breitzen,
2013-04-23, 10:37
- Glad we agree :) -
Xenos,
2013-04-23, 10:44
- Whoo!!!! - breitzen, 2013-04-23, 10:52
- Glad we agree :) -
Xenos,
2013-04-23, 10:44
- The problem is... -
breitzen,
2013-04-23, 10:37
- The problem is... -
Xenos,
2013-04-23, 10:04
- The problem is... -
breitzen,
2013-04-23, 08:27
- The problem is... -
kapowaz,
2013-04-23, 01:43
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-22, 10:44
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-22, 11:57
- Great Explanation! - breitzen, 2013-04-22, 12:35
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - uberfoop, 2013-04-22, 23:31
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
thebruce,
2013-04-24, 07:19
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-24, 08:00
- Why reward-motivated gaming can devalue the game experience - thebruce, 2013-04-24, 08:02
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-24, 08:00
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Jillybean,
2013-04-22, 11:57
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
Cold,
2013-04-22, 12:04
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
RaichuKFM,
2013-04-22, 12:26
- Multitude of Difficulty Levels -
Cold,
2013-04-23, 08:07
- Multitude of Difficulty Levels -
thebruce,
2013-04-24, 07:30
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cold,
2013-04-24, 09:04
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 10:30
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Xenos,
2013-04-24, 11:11
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cold,
2013-04-24, 12:47
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 13:04
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 - Cold, 2013-04-24, 13:18
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 13:04
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cold,
2013-04-24, 12:47
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cold,
2013-04-24, 12:44
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 13:00
- That is the very point... -
Cold,
2013-04-24, 13:07
- That is the very point... -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 13:11
- That is the very point... - Cold, 2013-04-24, 13:22
- That is the very point... -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 13:11
- That is the very point... -
Cold,
2013-04-24, 13:07
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 13:00
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Xenos,
2013-04-24, 11:11
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 10:30
- Difficulty Levels 1-7 -
Cold,
2013-04-24, 09:04
- Multitude of Difficulty Levels -
thebruce,
2013-04-24, 07:30
- Multitude of Difficulty Levels -
Cold,
2013-04-23, 08:07
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
RaichuKFM,
2013-04-22, 12:26
- The problem is... -
breitzen,
2013-04-22, 10:23
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
ZackDark,
2013-04-21, 08:46
- This is one of my problems with playing online. -
Mercury,
2013-04-22, 14:39
- Spot on. - thebruce, 2013-04-24, 07:32
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - stabbim, 2013-04-23, 09:02
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
electricpirate,
2013-04-23, 10:16
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-23, 10:31
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
electricpirate,
2013-04-23, 11:23
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-23, 11:40
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - RaichuKFM, 2013-04-23, 12:11
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - electricpirate, 2013-04-23, 12:16
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Kermit,
2013-04-23, 12:25
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
SonofMacPhisto,
2013-04-23, 14:51
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Kermit,
2013-04-23, 16:26
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - thebruce, 2013-04-24, 07:47
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
stabbim,
2013-04-24, 09:35
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 10:18
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - Xenos, 2013-04-24, 10:26
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - stabbim, 2013-04-24, 15:22
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-24, 10:18
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Kermit,
2013-04-23, 16:26
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
SonofMacPhisto,
2013-04-23, 14:51
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-28, 21:48
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - RaichuKFM, 2013-04-29, 03:58
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - thebruce, 2013-04-29, 06:42
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - Kermit, 2013-04-29, 08:36
- Swings and round-a-bouts, Mr. Miller -
RC,
2013-04-29, 11:03
- Swings and round-a-bouts, Mr. Miller - Cody Miller, 2013-04-29, 11:39
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - electricpirate, 2013-05-03, 07:34
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - General Vagueness, 2013-05-09, 16:27
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-23, 11:40
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
electricpirate,
2013-04-23, 11:23
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-23, 10:31
- Kinda OT but . . . -
Jillybean,
2013-04-24, 08:05
- Nope, you're the devil! *NM* - Xenos, 2013-04-24, 08:14
- Kinda OT but . . . - SonofMacPhisto, 2013-04-24, 14:18
- Kinda OT but . . . -
Flynn J Taggart,
2013-04-24, 17:04
- Kinda OT but . . . - Cody Miller, 2013-04-24, 19:26
- Not much to add to the current conversation, but... -
Mr Daax,
2013-04-24, 16:01
- +1. Always thought so too. - ZackDark, 2013-04-24, 17:12
- Dude's a genuine 21st century Socrates - Stephen Laughlin, 2013-04-28, 20:19
- A short commentary on games design -
Oz Mills,
2013-04-30, 08:15
- A short commentary on games design -
kapowaz,
2013-04-30, 15:22
- A short commentary on games design - Oz Mills, 2013-05-01, 02:29
- A short commentary on games design -
kapowaz,
2013-04-30, 15:22
- SO WHO WON? -
Cody Miller,
2013-04-30, 19:29
- I wasn't aware we needed a winner. *NM* - Oz Mills, 2013-05-01, 01:42
- EVERYBODY. -
RaichuKFM,
2013-05-01, 03:48
- EVERYBODY. - ZackDark, 2013-05-01, 08:39
- Jury's still out -
thebruce,
2013-05-01, 07:55
- Jury's still out - Oz Mills, 2013-05-01, 08:18
- Ahah oops! -
Cody Miller,
2013-05-01, 15:23
- Heh, they just had. =P - ZackDark, 2013-05-01, 20:38
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience -
ZackDark,
2013-04-19, 17:00