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You guys couldn't hear my cries of objection, but the bridge is by far my favorite encounter in the game. Reducing it to a 5-minute exploit is not my idea of a good time :)

I didn't even know it could still be cheesed?

Isn't the whole point of playing on hard mode to challenge ourselves? That kind of sentiment makes me sad. Yes… we might spend hours figuring out how to conquer a challenge that is now hard again. You know, having fun.

:-(

For the same reasons. When I find a group on DestinyLFG, I always post "no cheese" in my info. Helps weed out those with… different… priorities.

Cuts both ways, though… Last night we did VoG Hard and sniped the Oracles/Templar section. I feel bad every time we do it because it feels like I'm cheating, but we went that route because one of our group hadn't done Hard mode before, and another hadn't even done a Vault run of any kind. We had limited time and we expected the Gatekeeper/Atheon stuff to be rough. As it turned out, though, we breezed through the Gatekeepers on our first try and had Atheon down within a handful of attempts. We definitely could have tried Oracles/Templar "legit" a few times. :-\

What are you, some kind of Communist? Time is money, Cody. Time is money.

You conveniently left out why I said that we should do the cheese. It was only because you were wanting to start late, and due to work priorities, I didn't want to take five hours running the raid, especially with your superpower of finding new ways to cause wipes...

You said that we could run a raid much earlier, cheese-free, and I was all for it.

It's not so much about "time" as it is about "timing".

I like fun.

now that I read the rest of the thread this is not the case here but it's still all true:

Some of the people play this game to get things done. The method is irrelevant. I assume for most of them they don't like the game they just like achievement or finishing goals. I saw the same thing way back when I played Everquest.

Isn't the whole point of playing on hard mode to challenge ourselves? That kind of sentiment makes me sad. Yes… we might spend hours figuring out how to conquer a challenge that is now hard again. You know, having fun.

:-(

Challenging ourselves is one thing, dying over and over with everything you've got for hours is another.

I'm now aware of my previous mistakes, but let's take the Battle with Crota, or the Deathsingers for example. When the 6 of you are going through with fully maxed out armor, and you're still getting one-hit killed, and no matter what strategy you devise, it always falls apart. Morale drops quickly. Watching the Hive taunt us through our death cameras infuriates us. We fight. We lose. We fight. We lose. Hours pass. People are tired, pissed off, hungry and feeling hopeless that we can't finish it, and stupid that so many people are--by themselves. The good time we're having quickly dissolves into anger and resentment(and blame). Now, instead of trying to have fun, you're just hoping to get it over with so you can never play it again. Challenging is fun--"impossibility" is not.