The kind of promises they made about 10 year experiences and keeping your same character throughout the whole Destiny cycle have already been broken in my eyes. Any time or progress or anything I put into my D1 characters has been discarded and no, keeping the same cosmetic features with everything else being thrown away does not count as keeping the same character in my eyes.

HZD and Dues Ex should eat up a bunch of my time til December.

I think the problem of choice is only a problem to the new or the uninformed. In your example you use Pop from the supermarket. If you've never had any in your life, yeah, you'd be overwhelmed with the variety. But if you are familiar with it, the choice doesn't bother you at all; you just go for Vanilla Coke.

You are 100% wrong about this.

I grew up in the United States, and was completely comfortable with supermarkets. I joined the Peace Corps, and spent 3 years in a developing nation. When I came home, one of the most overwhelming things was walking down the cereal aisle in my hometown Stop and Shop - it made me physically dizzy.

I guarantee you, if you poll 100 returned peace corps volunteers, more than 75 of them will have a similar story.

Reverse culture shock.

RPCVs and others working for charitable institutions in various parts of the world probably experience it more often, but it can happen to anyone living long enough in an area with different economic conditions.

Did I mention I'm returning to the US permanently starting next week?

Is it trivial of me that my first thought was, "Yay, lag-free play with narc!"

Welcome back.

DUDE. I don't think we're understanding each other. I don't think that many choices necessarily leads to dissatisfaction, and to the extent that the paradox of choice theory is invoked as some sort of law, we're probably in agreement. A preponderance of choices in itself isn't a predictor of dissatisfaction. I don't think it's bullshit, as you so delicately put it, because it's useful to describe the experience of having many choices that aren't distinctive and can't be easily chosen among. More importantly, it's a useful concept for creators to think about, in that they can ensure that the choices they offer are meaningful to their audience, and they can be cautious about not overwhelming their audience. I mean, ask Steve Jobs (if only we could). There was a man who understood the paradox of choice. Expert PC users spent decades lording their expertise over the rubes who didn't necessarily want to have to learn how to build a PC in order to use one. Steve Jobs sided with the rubes, and computing became ubiquitous in no small part because of him. There's a famous book about usability called Don't Make Me Think. A big part of usability is about avoiding the paradox of choice.

This I think falls more under meaningful choice. For Steve, computers were creative tools and the people who used them creative professionals (at least for most of Apple's life). Thus, many 'choices' were not meaningful to them regarding the technical aspects of the computer. They cared about what software it would run, and whether what they saw on the screen would look the same way on the page, the quality of the UI, etc. It's not the paradox of choice; it's getting rid of meaningless choices that get in the way of your creativity.

It's just as stupid to say that more choice is always bad as it is to say that more choice is always good, and when I invoke "the paradox of choice," I'm pushing back against the latter.

And by the way, everybody shit on the 2013 Mac Pros and the New Macbook Pros because they don't offer enough options. But your phone? It just has to do a few things well.

Oh, I'm not the guy who's going to say Apple always makes the best decisions in terms of how they limit our choices, but Jobs was pretty damn good about deciding what was essential and what wasn't. He did a much better job than Apple is doing currently, IMHO. I mean, taking away the home button on the iPhone feels idiotic to be, the wrong answer to the question, What Would Jobs Do? I reserve the right to change that opinion, though, because I've had to revise similar opinions in the past.

DUDE. I don't think we're understanding each other. I don't think that many choices necessarily leads to dissatisfaction, and to the extent that the paradox of choice theory is invoked as some sort of law, we're probably in agreement. A preponderance of choices in itself isn't a predictor of dissatisfaction. I don't think it's bullshit, as you so delicately put it, because it's useful to describe the experience of having many choices that aren't distinctive and can't be easily chosen among. More importantly, it's a useful concept for creators to think about, in that they can ensure that the choices they offer are meaningful to their audience, and they can be cautious about not overwhelming their audience. I mean, ask Steve Jobs (if only we could). There was a man who understood the paradox of choice. Expert PC users spent decades lording their expertise over the rubes who didn't necessarily want to have to learn how to build a PC in order to use one. Steve Jobs sided with the rubes, and computing became ubiquitous in no small part because of him. There's a famous book about usability called Don't Make Me Think. A big part of usability is about avoiding the paradox of choice.

This I think falls more under meaningful choice. For Steve, computers were creative tools and the people who used them creative professionals (at least for most of Apple's life). Thus, many 'choices' were not meaningful to them regarding the technical aspects of the computer. They cared about what software it would run, and whether what they saw on the screen would look the same way on the page, the quality of the UI, etc. It's not the paradox of choice; it's getting rid of meaningless choices that get in the way of your creativity.

And by the way, everybody shit on the 2013 Mac Pros and the New Macbook Pros because they don't offer enough options. But your phone? It just has to do a few things well.

https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=138271

"I'm nervous that the burn out factor in D2 may happen." - ManKitten

Hashtag ManKitten is canon? Did I do that right?

I think the problem of choice is only a problem to the new or the uninformed. In your example you use Pop from the supermarket. If you've never had any in your life, yeah, you'd be overwhelmed with the variety. But if you are familiar with it, the choice doesn't bother you at all; you just go for Vanilla Coke.

You are 100% wrong about this.

Then our life experiences are simply 100% different! :-)

But is what you are writing about really the problem of choice? It seems like your problem isn't the choosing, but the environment itself and your readjustment to it.

Where did you get this phrase "problem of choice"? Mankitten and Claude were talking about the paradox of choice, which is a real phenomenon that has been studied in great detail.

So am I. Same thing. We are talking about the same issue.

But tell me, have they run experiments on people who are EXPERTS? Like, send someone who's played guitar for 50 years into a store to buy one. Would they feel the same about their purchase as a teenager looking to start a band? I'm guessing no, but then again I haven't run any experiments to prove that. Has anybody else?

Oh wait, they have. It turns out the paradox of choice is bullshit:

Attempts to duplicate the paradox of choice in other studies have had mixed success. A meta-analysis incorporating research from 50 independent studies found no meaningful connection between choice and anxiety

http://www.scheibehenne.de/ScheibehenneGreifenederTodd2010.pdf

Don't believe everything you see in a TED talk dude.

Thanks for the link, but I think you're cherry picking what you want out of that paper. Choice overload is a phenomenon but much depends on context. You describe only scenarios where people can quickly and readily limit their choices, thereby making the preponderance of choice moot.

You have extremely strong personal preferences (this is not wholly a compliment--it affects your ability to give any credence to alternative preferences). It makes sense that you would discredit an experience you don't have. I can easily imagine you in the grocery. "There's only two decent cereals, and this is the best one." Well, bully for you.

Dude, this is the exact opposite of what you describe. I give you a link to a scientific review of 50 such studies, and it concludes the link is either not meaningful, or it is due to other factors. That's hardly discrediting an experience I don't have. It's literally examining a wide variety of experiences and coming to an evidence drawn conclusion.

I mean, it directly supports my original hypothesis:

One important such precondition is lack of familiarity with, or prior pref- erences for, the items in the choice assortment so that choos- ers will not be able to rely merely on selecting something that matches their own preferences (Iyengar and Lepper 2000). Chernev (2003a, 2003b) showed that people with clear prior preferences prefer to choose from larger assort- ments and that, for those people, choice probability and satisfaction increased with the number of options to choose from, the opposite of choice overload.

DUDE. I don't think we're understanding each other. I don't think that many choices necessarily leads to dissatisfaction, and to the extent that the paradox of choice theory is invoked as some sort of law, we're probably in agreement. A preponderance of choices in itself isn't a predictor of dissatisfaction. I don't think it's bullshit, as you so delicately put it, because it's useful to describe the experience of having many choices that aren't distinctive and can't be easily chosen among. More importantly, it's a useful concept for creators to think about, in that they can ensure that the choices they offer are meaningful to their audience, and they can be cautious about not overwhelming their audience. I mean, ask Steve Jobs (if only we could). There was a man who understood the paradox of choice. Expert PC users spent decades lording their expertise over the rubes who didn't necessarily want to have to learn how to build a PC in order to use one. Steve Jobs sided with the rubes, and computing became ubiquitous in no small part because of him. There's a famous book about usability called Don't Make Me Think. A big part of usability is about avoiding the paradox of choice.

Mind the cereal aisle. :)

.... or else it's not vacuum.

Except for the Higgs Field and vacuum energy… no such thing as empty space in this universe.

Did I mention I'm returning to the US permanently starting next week?

A few things have happened since you were gone…

I think the problem of choice is only a problem to the new or the uninformed. In your example you use Pop from the supermarket. If you've never had any in your life, yeah, you'd be overwhelmed with the variety. But if you are familiar with it, the choice doesn't bother you at all; you just go for Vanilla Coke.

You are 100% wrong about this.

I grew up in the United States, and was completely comfortable with supermarkets. I joined the Peace Corps, and spent 3 years in a developing nation. When I came home, one of the most overwhelming things was walking down the cereal aisle in my hometown Stop and Shop - it made me physically dizzy.

I guarantee you, if you poll 100 returned peace corps volunteers, more than 75 of them will have a similar story.

Reverse culture shock.

RPCVs and others working for charitable institutions in various parts of the world probably experience it more often, but it can happen to anyone living long enough in an area with different economic conditions.

Did I mention I'm returning to the US permanently starting next week?

Do you have two kitchens?

https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=138271

"I'm nervous that the burn out factor in D2 may happen." - ManKitten

Hashtag ManKitten is canon? Did I do that right?

I think the problem of choice is only a problem to the new or the uninformed. In your example you use Pop from the supermarket. If you've never had any in your life, yeah, you'd be overwhelmed with the variety. But if you are familiar with it, the choice doesn't bother you at all; you just go for Vanilla Coke.

You are 100% wrong about this.

Then our life experiences are simply 100% different! :-)

But is what you are writing about really the problem of choice? It seems like your problem isn't the choosing, but the environment itself and your readjustment to it.

Where did you get this phrase "problem of choice"? Mankitten and Claude were talking about the paradox of choice, which is a real phenomenon that has been studied in great detail.

So am I. Same thing. We are talking about the same issue.

But tell me, have they run experiments on people who are EXPERTS? Like, send someone who's played guitar for 50 years into a store to buy one. Would they feel the same about their purchase as a teenager looking to start a band? I'm guessing no, but then again I haven't run any experiments to prove that. Has anybody else?

Oh wait, they have. It turns out the paradox of choice is bullshit:

Attempts to duplicate the paradox of choice in other studies have had mixed success. A meta-analysis incorporating research from 50 independent studies found no meaningful connection between choice and anxiety

http://www.scheibehenne.de/ScheibehenneGreifenederTodd2010.pdf

Don't believe everything you see in a TED talk dude.

Thanks for the link, but I think you're cherry picking what you want out of that paper. Choice overload is a phenomenon but much depends on context. You describe only scenarios where people can quickly and readily limit their choices, thereby making the preponderance of choice moot.

You have extremely strong personal preferences (this is not wholly a compliment--it affects your ability to give any credence to alternative preferences). It makes sense that you would discredit an experience you don't have. I can easily imagine you in the grocery. "There's only two decent cereals, and this is the best one." Well, bully for you.

Dude, this is the exact opposite of what you describe. I give you a link to a scientific review of 50 such studies, and it concludes the link is either not meaningful, or it is due to other factors. That's hardly discrediting an experience I don't have. It's literally examining a wide variety of experiences and coming to an evidence drawn conclusion.

I mean, it directly supports my original hypothesis:

One important such precondition is lack of familiarity with, or prior pref- erences for, the items in the choice assortment so that choos- ers will not be able to rely merely on selecting something that matches their own preferences (Iyengar and Lepper 2000). Chernev (2003a, 2003b) showed that people with clear prior preferences prefer to choose from larger assort- ments and that, for those people, choice probability and satisfaction increased with the number of options to choose from, the opposite of choice overload.

https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=138271

"I'm nervous that the burn out factor in D2 may happen." - ManKitten

Hashtag ManKitten is canon? Did I do that right?

I think the problem of choice is only a problem to the new or the uninformed. In your example you use Pop from the supermarket. If you've never had any in your life, yeah, you'd be overwhelmed with the variety. But if you are familiar with it, the choice doesn't bother you at all; you just go for Vanilla Coke.

You are 100% wrong about this.

Then our life experiences are simply 100% different! :-)

But is what you are writing about really the problem of choice? It seems like your problem isn't the choosing, but the environment itself and your readjustment to it.

Where did you get this phrase "problem of choice"? Mankitten and Claude were talking about the paradox of choice, which is a real phenomenon that has been studied in great detail.

So am I. Same thing. We are talking about the same issue.

But tell me, have they run experiments on people who are EXPERTS? Like, send someone who's played guitar for 50 years into a store to buy one. Would they feel the same about their purchase as a teenager looking to start a band? I'm guessing no, but then again I haven't run any experiments to prove that. Has anybody else?

Oh wait, they have. It turns out the paradox of choice is bullshit:

Attempts to duplicate the paradox of choice in other studies have had mixed success. A meta-analysis incorporating research from 50 independent studies found no meaningful connection between choice and anxiety

http://www.scheibehenne.de/ScheibehenneGreifenederTodd2010.pdf

Don't believe everything you see in a TED talk dude.

Thanks for the link, but I think you're cherry picking what you want out of that paper. Choice overload is a phenomenon but much depends on context. You describe only scenarios where people can quickly and readily limit their choices, thereby making the preponderance of choice moot.

You have extremely strong personal preferences (this is not wholly a compliment--it affects your ability to give any credence to alternative preferences). It makes sense that you would discredit an experience you don't have. I can easily imagine you in the grocery. "There's only two decent cereals, and this is the best one." Well, bully for you.

...I was just wondering if people were already burned out on Destiny 2 based on the original thread post. That's why I quoted that line from my old post. In D1 we were trickle fed. In D2 we binged from the beginning.

Wouldn't it be more like

I don't know. My office network is blocking the image :P
See my previous post in reaction to this.

...I was just wondering if people were already burned out on Destiny 2 based on the original thread post. That's why I quoted that line from my old post. In D1 we were trickle fed. In D2 we binged from the beginning.

Wouldn't it be more like