I think you hit the nail on the head. There is something missing from D2 and potentially nobody knows what it is, not even Bungie. Then there's times where it seems like, if there weren't complaint threads, then this forum would go days without a new post. Yet, when you look at current active users, there are plenty of people. As I type this there are 15 registered and 88 guests. So people are here, they just don't have anything to say about the game...except complain.

It's missing that "IT" factor...whatever IT is.

Is there a solution to this?
Is it possible to figure out what the IT factor is?
Instead of looking at Bungie to fix everything, is there something we can do?
How do we play D2 differently than we did D1? I know I can think of many examples here...is the IT factor hiding inside one of these details?
Is the IT factor a bunch of little factors?

These might be rhetorical questions, I don't know.

Forge mode revolutionized content (as far as I know). The fans made the content, because they got to learn (in a much simpler package) that creating things is SO MUCH FUN!

What is one of the biggest constant gripes about Destiny? Content.

I spent several hundred hours in Forge mode with Halo Reach, but I’m not sure I’d have any desire to use a Forge mode in Destiny.

Granted, a lot of my Forge time in Reach was spent building sets and locations for my machinima, which is a bit of a niche usage. But to that end, Destiny doesn’t have a theatre mode either, so the sort of machinima I’d be interested in making is a non-starter.

That said, I also got heavily into forging Racetracks in Halo Reach, as well as organizing community race nights. I might mess around with something like that in Destiny, were it available, but I doubt I’d get into it much. I don’t actually enjoy sparrow racing (Destiny’s physics make it more frustrating than anything else, IMO)

Aside from that stuff, the most fun I had c/o Forge mode was playing some of the wild and crazy gameypes that talented forgers would come up with... and those creations require in-depth custom game options, which Destiny also lacks.

So for me, that’s sort of the crux of this particular issue. Forge is awesome, but without the custom game and theatre features of the Halo series, I don’t know how much vitality Forge can add all by itself.

...also I miss Pete. ;_; *quack quack*

You and me both. I miss him, and I also miss his creations. Playing his “Onslaught” mode with him was the most fun I ever had in Halo 4.

Although I think this would be awesome, I can't imagine how much work it would take to make something like forge for Destiny. Not to mention, think about how many assets/models/lighting there could possible be in Halo compared to Destiny... It's gotta be a TON. Sure, they could give Destiny Forge a subset of assets for the community to work with... but... I don't know. I think it would be cool still

it all depends how modular it is
if it's very modular it should be easy, barring some strange bugs
if it's not that modular they'd have to pull the code apart and possibly the models and even the textures, which can be anywhere from "kind of difficult" to "a task not meant for mortal man"
it should be very modular because that makes it easier for mapmakers and programmers in the company, but I remember some kerfuffle in D1 about having to rewrite their own tools and go about everything the hard way, despite the fact I thought they learned that lesson with Halo, so maybe they didn't make things appropriately modular

Forge mode revolutionized content (as far as I know). The fans made the content, because they got to learn (in a much simpler package) that creating things is SO MUCH FUN!

What is one of the biggest constant gripes about Destiny? Content.

...also I miss Pete. ;_; *quack quack*

I'm a (very) amateur Forger, and I'm someone who's played a lot of custom maps (hundreds), and I'm someone who's weathered the storms of recent Halo games (with Halo 4 having a lackluster Forge, MCC not having many Forgers, and Halo 5 having a great Forge but one that came out sort of piecemeal), and I've tried to get Destiny customs going several times
with that in mind, Forge or something like it only helps as much as the players and developers are willing to make and play on Forged maps, and it requires people to be able to make what they've imagined
I would absolutely love a Forge or mapmaking mode but at this point, especially if maps don't enter matchmaking, it's not likely to be the killer feature

A lot of times when I'm AFK, I come back to see you sitting in orbit with me.

I'm always watching...

I played (alone, because I didn't see anyone on)

So, this is something I have thought about discussing for a bit now, but it always slips my mind.

That creates a loop where I'm not playing, so I don't get invited, so I don't play, so I don't get invited . . .

This isn't some pity party saying I feel left out--I often don't bother folks with invites who aren't actively playing, either.

I'm just saying I would love to play with anyone here--send that invite!

(For whatever it's worth, I wasn't online at all last night, so this isn't really directed at you, Claude).

A lot of times when I get an invite, I'm either AFK, or in the middle of whatever mission I'm in, and I forget to check afterwards. I'm much the same way in that I'll usually hop on to whatever game people are playing if they send an invite, so don't be discouraged and think that I'm just going to ignore it; I'll usually just flat-out say no if I'm not feeling the game (and I bought Titanfall 2 on Xbox just because I got an invite to it, so my desire to play with folks tends to be pretty strong)...

So don't be afraid to send one, even if you see me on Warframe. :P

I played (alone, because I didn't see anyone on)

So, this is something I have thought about discussing for a bit now, but it always slips my mind.

I don't regularly play Destiny 2 anymore. I am usually online, though, playing something else. No one ever sends me any invites to do anything. Whether that's because they just don't want to play with me, assuming I hate the game now from all my recent posts, or because they think I wont' want to play, I don't know.

I'm here to say, if anyone ever sees me online, even if I'm not playing Destiny, and you're looking to put a fireteam together, send the invite. I won't necessarily always say yes, but it'd be rare for me to. I would love tackle Nightfalls with people, or just get materials for Lost Prophecies, or whatever folks might need or want help with.

Honestly, I expect I would honestly like the game much more if I more consistently had people to do stuff with--I have fun just screwing around in patrol if it's with folks from here. The game just doesn't offer much for me personally right now, when I play it solo.

That creates a loop where I'm not playing, so I don't get invited, so I don't play, so I don't get invited . . .

This isn't some pity party saying I feel left out--I often don't bother folks with invites who aren't actively playing, either.

I'm just saying I would love to play with anyone here--send that invite!

(For whatever it's worth, I wasn't online at all last night, so this isn't really directed at you, Claude).

I understand this completely, I've become a social gamer in my old age and playing games solo is still fun, but it doesn't have the same fun as when I'm playing with other people.

1. Generally if I see people online playing something other than what I want to play, I won't send them invites, because I just don't want to bother them if they're intending to play something else at the time. I don't know if this is something everyone does, or if it's just me projecting my non-spontaneous personality onto others. I do make exceptions to this for people I've played a certain game with A LOT. For example, there's a friend I've known since high school who I often play Forza with - if he's online at all, I'll invite him to that.

2. Often when we're looking for people to invite to Destiny, we use the in-game friends list, so we're only really seeing the people who are already on Destiny.

I played (alone, because I didn't see anyone on)

So, this is something I have thought about discussing for a bit now, but it always slips my mind.

I don't regularly play Destiny 2 anymore. I am usually online, though, playing something else. No one ever sends me any invites to do anything. Whether that's because they just don't want to play with me, assuming I hate the game now from all my recent posts, or because they think I wont' want to play, I don't know.

I'm here to say, if anyone ever sees me online, even if I'm not playing Destiny, and you're looking to put a fireteam together, send the invite. I won't necessarily always say yes, but it'd be rare for me to. I would love tackle Nightfalls with people, or just get materials for Lost Prophecies, or whatever folks might need or want help with.

Honestly, I expect I would honestly like the game much more if I more consistently had people to do stuff with--I have fun just screwing around in patrol if it's with folks from here. The game just doesn't offer much for me personally right now, when I play it solo.

That creates a loop where I'm not playing, so I don't get invited, so I don't play, so I don't get invited . . .

This isn't some pity party saying I feel left out--I often don't bother folks with invites who aren't actively playing, either.

I'm just saying I would love to play with anyone here--send that invite!

(For whatever it's worth, I wasn't online at all last night, so this isn't really directed at you, Claude).

Cruel, this isn't directed at you.

I hope I'm not overstepping here, but I'm going to imagine myself as Claude here. Many of you have decided the game isn't good and endlessly talk about that. I don't think he agrees. He suggested that the negativity is draining. Instead of looking at how you post, many of you are pivoting to the idea that D2 lacks a "je ne sais quoi" quality that brings about positive posts thus ignoring the constant stream of salt-infused posts. This misses the point. I think he still likes it and it's hard to come here when the prevailing vocalized mindset is that D2 sucks, and Bungie are bumbling fools. Over and over and OVER again. I don't even think he begrudges you for it. It's just hard to enjoy something and put effort into it when everyone around you is constantly saying it's terrible.

Took the day off to do some work, coming back to read stuff now.

Yeah, it seems like a bunch of people missed the point. I'm not trying to censor anyone (more on that further down), I'm just trying to make MY life a little better. I'm afraid of being infected by some of the more pervasive attitudes here (I noticed last night as I was reading this very thread that I was second-guessing the fun I'd just had playing the game because of some arguments I agreed with about Bungie's communication skills recently. And then I said "wait, what? I HAD FUN. I CAN HAVE FUN PLAYING THE GAME AND BE ANNOYED AT THE SAME TIME BY THE COMMUNICATION PROBLEMS. THEY'RE UNRELATED." The fact that I had to yell at myself to understand that says that I'm in a bad place right now. That should be OBVIOUS.)

The easiest solution is to walk away. Maybe just for a while, maybe longer - who knows? I love this community, in general, but right now, it's bringing me down, and I don't need that in my life.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be negative. I'm not saying you don't have a point if you think Bungie could do better. I'm saying that I don't want to be a part of that conversation any more.

Xenos, and Beorn, and Speed (and probably some other people) came up with the idea of a Criticism tag - and I think that it's a fine immediate solution to the current problem. I'm a little worried about it in the long run, because it's something we've NEVER done before, on any B.org forum - you've ALWAYS gotten the good with the bad, all mixed up. (That said, the good almost always far outweighed the bad, so we're facing a problem that's new, too.) I'm willing to let it have a trial run.

In answer to Korny's fears that it's going to quarantine the salty contingent - it's not. As Xenos pointed out, the majority of forumgoers probably won't even visit their settings, and the default is opt-in on all tags. In specific, it seems he might have misunderstood a basic policy in this post:

Xenos clearly explained that if he or another admin deems your post critical, they'll move it over. Now people will be like "I better make sure that I don't say anything too critical, or Xenos the Menace will strike, and my thought-out post will be hidden from members in the community whose input I'd enjoy reading."

Xenos clearly explained in several posts that the only way a thread (not a post, a THREAD) gets reclassified is if the majority of comments go negative. If you make a critical post in an otherwise neutral (ie not already tagged Criticism) thread, it'll stay there. This isn't about censorship. It's about making it possible to enjoy this forum without fear of being jumped on for saying positive things.

(This is a feeling I've actually discussed before; it's not the first time I've felt it here. When I log in to the forum, and there's a 15-post thread with a bunch of people all agreeing with each other about how terrible Bungie is for doing X or Y or not doing Z, even if I feel like they're not terrible for that, I won't wade in because I don't feel like being berated, and that's what it looks like is gonna happen. If you've participated in one of those threads, and you read this paragraph and say "well, he's just being a snowflake"... you're part of the problem. I'm not a fucking snowflake, and I can take criticism and scorn as well as the next guy, but THIS IS A FAN FORUM FOR A VIDEO GAME. Why would I subject myself to that sort of bullshit when my bandwidth for negative feelings is already saturated by politics, and social injustice, and climate change? I come here for the company, and to discuss a game (and a company) that I love. If I'm not going to enjoy that, I'm not coming.)

Bottom line: we made a forum out of love for Bungie, and over time, out of love for their game. It's grown to something else, right now, and I don't begrudge the changes - I just don't want to be part of them. So you're welcome to stay and say what you want - I'm not removing YOU, or the negative stuff... I'm removing ME.

I hope that's clearer.

Small and out of the way though.

Cruel, this isn't directed at you.

I hope I'm not overstepping here, but I'm going to imagine myself as Claude here. Many of you have decided the game isn't good and endlessly talk about that. I don't think he agrees. He suggested that the negativity is draining. Instead of looking at how you post, many of you are pivoting to the idea that D2 lacks a "je ne sais quoi" quality that brings about positive posts thus ignoring the constant stream of salt-infused posts. This misses the point. I think he still likes it and it's hard to come here when the prevailing vocalized mindset is that D2 sucks, and Bungie are bumbling fools. Over and over and OVER again. I don't even think he begrudges you for it. It's just hard to enjoy something and put effort into it when everyone around you is constantly saying it's terrible.

Yeah. I equated it to a good friend who goes to you all the time to "vent" but if all you hear from your friend, no matter how good of one, is venting the relationship gets hard. The friend might have legitimate reason to vent, but that's not the point. It can't just be venting. We are doing a lot of venting here.

Cruel, this isn't directed at you.

I hope I'm not overstepping here, but I'm going to imagine myself as Claude here. Many of you have decided the game isn't good and endlessly talk about that. I don't think he agrees. He suggested that the negativity is draining. Instead of looking at how you post, many of you are pivoting to the idea that D2 lacks a "je ne sais quoi" quality that brings about positive posts thus ignoring the constant stream of salt-infused posts. This misses the point. I think still likes it and it's hard to come here when the prevailing vocalized mindset is that D2 sucks, and Bungie are bumbling fools. Over and over and OVER again. I don't even think he begrudges you for it. It's just hard to enjoy something and put effort into it when everyone around you is constantly saying it's terrible.

This post feels like a peak of consensus for all points. With this on the table I think - Well... What now?

I hope I'm not overstepping here, but I'm going to imagine myself as Claude here. Many of you have decided the game isn't good and endlessly talk about that. I don't think he agrees. He suggested that the negativity is draining. Instead of looking at how you post, many of you are pivoting to the idea that D2 lacks a "je ne sais quoi" quality that brings about positive posts thus ignoring the constant stream of salt-infused posts. This misses the point. I think he still likes it and it's hard to come here when the prevailing vocalized mindset is that D2 sucks, and Bungie are bumbling fools. Over and over and OVER again. I don't even think he begrudges you for it. It's just hard to enjoy something and put effort into it when everyone around you is constantly saying it's terrible.