AM I DUMB? King's Fall challenges and other mysteries.

Okay, don't answer that first question. I'm starting to get frustrated with Destiny's and/or Bungie's lack of communication. I mean, I like the secrets in the story missions. I like figuring things out, and I'm willing to do a certain amount of outside-of-game research in order to understand the game and the best ways to play it.

When it comes to the raid challenges, though, everyone seems to know more than me, like what they are, how long they last, etc. When I try to research them, I get nothing but strategies for how to beat the challenge.

Bungie.net, reddit, or destiny tracker have no info on what challenge is active and for how long. Perhaps I haven't looked hard enough, but that begs the question: how hard should I have to look?

I'm at 305 on the PS4 and 309 on the Xbox, so I don't think I can do the hard challenge this week (i.e., I'm useless or the hard Oryx fight), but other challenges aren't active this week--is that how it works?

Maybe I'm just generally frustrated. I like raiding. It's my favorite Destiny activity, but I'm feeling left behind. A lot of people seem to have gotten to the going-through-the-motions stage. (I'm not there.) On the other hand, FTB events fill up quicker than I can sign up for them these days.

I know part of the solution. Set up events, ask for help, etc., and part of it is my fault. I can't play as late from the east coast. I can't commit to multi-night events as frequently, and that's often what's necessary (on weeknights, anyway). The issue for now is, I don't know where to find out what the parameters of the challenge are. I don't know the target to aim for.

Kermit

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It says in the game, IIRC. Could be wrong. That said, you'll never have to look.

This week is Oryx. End at reset. Next week is Warpriest. Next week is Golgoroth. Next week is Oryx. Next week is Warpriest. And so on.

Same challenge every time it's on a particular segment. The challenge is only active on one segment of the raid at a time. All players entering raid are automatically doing the challenge. A challenge fail but stage win, that is, if you beat the boss but don't do it the challenge way, nets you normal loot.

EDIT: Turns out position 2 is really easy for the Oryx fight, so even under leveled you should be able to do it. However, you're guaranteed some bomb ass armor for golgoroth, so just run that a couple times.

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EDIT: Turns out position 2 is really easy for the Oryx fight, so even under leveled you should be able to do it. However, you're guaranteed some bomb ass armor for golgoroth, so just run that a couple times.

This, i think, is bad advice, and will leave both Kermit and his team (unless they're really good) unhappy.

Position 2 is definitely the most forgiving slot of the 6 - but 'really easy' for a 305 it is not. (There's still getting from the platform to the aura, there's the multiple thunderdomes, etc etc etc)

The rest of the raid, however, is doable on Hard as a 305, assuming the rest of the team is solid. Doing that once or twice should build up enough 310+ gear to get over 311 for Oryx Challenge Hard.

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Position 2 is definitely the most forgiving slot of the 6 - but 'really easy' for a 305 it is not. (There's still getting from the platform to the aura, there's the multiple thunderdomes, etc etc etc)

I think every part of the Orxy fight is actually pretty difficult until you work your way through the challenges of each. I had been the runner almost every time I participated until this past week, when I ended up being a platform guy. This didn't go very well initially, as I just didn't know all of the "best practices" that other people had already internalized. By the end of yesterday night, when I finished it for the third time, I had really figured a lot of it out. The thing is, there are so many things you can screw up, it can seem overwhelming, but if you figure it out one death at a time (your fireteam willing), it's very do-able.

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You're probably right. I was mostly suggesting it as possible, not as an actual good idea. The other night, I did an Oryx checkpoint where Kermit signed up, but then he left because he didn't want to be a burden. It weighed heavily on my mind, which is why I wrote the edit. He shouldn't shut himself off from the possibility of doing it, which is what I was going for.

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I've seen this happen with a few people a few different times with the raid. Once I saw a guy from DBO doing a nightfall solo, so I jumped in to be helpful. By the time I had zoned in he had left. :/

I get it, I was the new guy going with the "regular raid group" for a while. It's intimidating and you feel very uncomfortable. But we all die. We all screw up, and that's half the fun. Seeing who doesn't make it across the tomb ships 4-6 times in a row (including people who have been running the raid multiple times a week since it was out! heh)

Everyone I run with on a regular basis is very welcoming to new blood. Heck, I think it took me 6-7 weeks to run King's Fall with the same group of people. It was always 1-2 different people every week for a while.

So post that fireteam event. And if you're not sure, make a post asking if people are willing/able to run a specific thing and when people can do it. You're not as bad as you think you are. =)

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EDIT: Turns out position 2 is really easy for the Oryx fight, so even under leveled you should be able to do it. However, you're guaranteed some bomb ass armor for golgoroth, so just run that a couple times.

Not only is there lack of info on Bungie's part, I get confused by the universally accepted strategies adopted by the community that are not fully communicated.
Position 2?????

It is probably the same grapevine that know what the challenge is, that have by word of mouth implemented the one and only method to complete the raid/challenges. Labeling out unknown position numbers for each "role"

PS4 - Light 304 only been able to run Kings Fall 2 or 3 times

EDIT
Is "position 2" the first platform after the one "the runner" starts on???

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I much prefer everyone picking a platform and then referring to it using the person's name. Any numbering system confuses someone.

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I much prefer everyone picking a platform and then referring to it using the person's name. Any numbering system confuses someone.

To me that is... insane. That means each platform gets a new name every time a player switches platforms, or each time you play with a different group, or when a player dies and a floater needs to take over the platform.

Just about every group I've played with that uses a number system uses the same one, and as long as somebody points it out before the start, it's much easier to call out numbers than names. You're only dealing with 1-4 for platforms. You can call out where Oryx is heading (Oryx is going to two"), players can call out their numbers to indicate they're on the platform ("two is on") they can let everybody know where someone has died ("dead on two") and the sherpa can call out that the floater needs to cover a platform ("floater to platform two").

How the naming works with an LFG group and players with unpronounceable names I can't imagine.

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I much prefer everyone picking a platform and then referring to it using the person's name. Any numbering system confuses someone.

To me that is... insane. That means each platform gets a new name every time a player switches platforms, or each time you play with a different group, or when a player dies and a floater needs to take over the platform.

Just about every group I've played with that uses a number system uses the same one, and as long as somebody points it out before the start, it's much easier to call out numbers than names. You're only dealing with 1-4 for platforms. You can call out where Oryx is heading (Oryx is going to two"), players can call out their numbers to indicate they're on the platform ("two is on") they can let everybody know where someone has died ("dead on two") and the sherpa can call out that the floater needs to cover a platform ("floater to platform two").

How the naming works with an LFG group and players with unpronounceable names I can't imagine.

I prefer having an absolute description when talking about specific platforms, and a relative one when saying "two is on", since the order changes depending on the starting platform.

L1, L2, R1, R2

1 is closest to where Oryx spawns. Very easy to identify.

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Sounds like hard mode requires a different strategy but honestly, it's not nuts when you can simply open your eyes and see what the platform is called based on who is standing on it. Doesn't take more than a round or two for everyone to get it. You play with the numbering system and then you play with a different group who has a different numbering system and confusion abounds.

I don't do LFG so I guess I don't run into people who gave themselves unpronounceable names.

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Sounds like hard mode requires a different strategy but honestly, it's not nuts when you can simply open your eyes and see what the platform is called based on who is standing on it. Doesn't take more than a round or two for everyone to get it. You play with the numbering system and then you play with a different group who has a different numbering system and confusion abounds.

I don't do LFG so I guess I don't run into people who gave themselves unpronounceable names.

why waste a few rounds learning where everyone is? the numbers don't lie. Oryx always slams on 1 (no matter what platform it is). You number counter clockwise from there. Too many people argue about where front/back or left/right is. Numbering counter-clockwise from Oryx is the simplest way.

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Geometry-based call-outs are better, imho. The trick is settling with a reference.

However, just like Right/Left;Jungle/Desert;"Venus"/"Mars", it takes very little time to get used to a new call-out. Oryx just happens to be a little tighter on timing.

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When Oryx starts moving from the top of the level to slam, there is nothing left alive. Everyone is busy getting into position- but if you can't be bothered to notice whether he goes left or right in that 15-second stretch (when you're not doing ANYTHING more important, except maybe collecting ammo), you're not going to be much use in a hard-mode raid.

There's a minimum level of observation that's CRITICAL - and figuring out where he's slamming is really below that level.

There aren't really two ways about this one. :(

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When Oryx starts moving from the top of the level to slam, there is nothing left alive. Everyone is busy getting into position- but if you can't be bothered to notice whether he goes left or right in that 15-second stretch (when you're not doing ANYTHING more important, except maybe collecting ammo), you're not going to be much use in a hard-mode raid.

There's a minimum level of observation that's CRITICAL - and figuring out where he's slamming is really below that level.

There aren't really two ways about this one. :(

not to mention, after he slams, he just stays there. lol

If you are the runner, or doing a platform, then you should be paying attention to where he goes (no matter if you do numbers, or a set assigned platform) b/c you need to know where he went and what order the platforms need to be activated. If you are a floater, then you need to know where he is so you can kill the ogres in order.

If you can't be bothered to know where Oryx is, then you are being a bad teammate and wasting everyone's time. Every part of that encounter relies on knowing what platform Oryx is at.

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If you can't be bothered to know where Oryx is, then you are being a bad teammate and wasting everyone's time. Every part of that encounter relies on knowing what platform Oryx is at.

Well, then I clearly need to play a LOT more of it. I still have no idea how Oryx influences most of the spawns...

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[image]

These diagrams show how different the fight gets and how tight the timing is during the Oryx fight.

Oryx slams on 1. Runner and guy 1 gets up. Runner goes on the platforms at 1 and runs around counter clockwise. Guy 2 gets up. Ogre 1 (O1) spawns. Guy 3 gets up. Knight 1 (K1) spawns. Ogre 2 spawns. Knight 2 spawns. Nobody is on 4.

20 seconds has passed.

Runner has relic. Ogre 3 spawns. Runner starts running towards where the ship will be. Positions 1 and 2 run away to the middle. Knight 3 spawns. Ogre 4 spawns. Runner has taken shield from vessel of Oryx. 3 abandons his post.

40 seconds has passed.

Knight 4 spawns. Oryx slams his fist. People are still killing Vessel. Vessel dies.

50 seconds has passed.

Everyone shoots at Oryx.

--------------------

Everyone has to, within about 15 seconds, be at the exact correct spot, know exactly where their knight and ogre are, know how long it will be until the Vessel is dunked on (if early, you don't have to avoid the axion darts, if late, you do), know exactly where to turn and shoot exactly right after the vessel dies, and where the bombs are. Virtually all of this is 100% dependent on where Oryx slams his fist. If you don't know where Oryx is, you will almost certainly cause a wipe.

Furthermore, those two guys Floaters (F) 1&2, know exactly where the ogres are, how to kill them, and what to do. Imagine if, within the first 15 seconds, we have to swap floaters, have a guy move to a platform, and immediately be right in the mental zone for a job that requires to the second timing and nigh perfect execution by the whole team. That's what would happen if we assigned people to the same platforms, which I know you're not advocating, but I know some do.

However, that layer of geography, spawn side left, Saturn right, etc, forces people to think, since job 1, 2, and 3 are different. "So spawn left, that's 3, right?" They lose a second and it can fuck the team.

Now, on a practiced group, I don't imagine this is actually a huge issue. I personally like the assigned spot names better, but since the job changes based on position, it's just far more practical to not add that extra layer of info.

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[image]

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Boy, no wonder I was confused as hell

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As someone who has done it with rotating numbers and with static pillar numbers multiple times each, I'm not sure one is "better" than the other. I will say that the rotating numbers strategy allows for less people to know the fight less well and just do their jobs. Rotating who is the floater isn't a huge deal if everyone knows what to do there.

But that's the thing, if people are new (or don't care), then teaching them 1 role is easier than teaching them the whole fight to comprehension levels.

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Yes, I agree. In my last couple sentences, I went with that. It doesn't seem that relevant though, since well practiced groups aren't having this kind of a discussion. :P

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This is good, because we might have to have this discussion in my raid tomorrow :-)

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When Oryx starts moving from the top of the level to slam, there is nothing left alive. Everyone is busy getting into position- but if you can't be bothered to notice whether he goes left or right in that 15-second stretch (when you're not doing ANYTHING more important, except maybe collecting ammo), you're not going to be much use in a hard-mode raid.

There's a minimum level of observation that's CRITICAL - and figuring out where he's slamming is really below that level.

There aren't really two ways about this one. :(

not to mention, after he slams, he just stays there. lol

If you are the runner, or doing a platform, then you should be paying attention to where he goes (no matter if you do numbers, or a set assigned platform) b/c you need to know where he went and what order the platforms need to be activated. If you are a floater, then you need to know where he is so you can kill the ogres in order.

If you can't be bothered to know where Oryx is, then you are being a bad teammate and wasting everyone's time. Every part of that encounter relies on knowing what platform Oryx is at.

Technically whoever is running the encounter, or the floater if nobody is, should be calling out what Oryx is doing-- which side he's going to, when he's slamming, etc-- to keep timing for everyone.

I still contend that's easier not only when you use numbers, but when the scheme is absolute, rather than relative.

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I think there's a basic misunderstanding here. If we're talking about numbering based on where Oryx starts, I don't have a problem with that, although I haven't played with a group that used that (or perhaps needed to, not having played on hard). I've not done the raid dozens of times, but I can see who's on what (again, just by looking), and the clearest description for me has always been Funkmon's platform (or whoever's). The only time it's important (for normal) is during the sisters, right, when someone else has to take so-and-so's platform. I have played with groups that have different static numbering schemes and someone always seems to get confused. (Maybe just me.)

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The only time it's important is during the sisters, right, when someone else has to take so-and-so's platform.

This. During the Oryx fight it doesn't really matter that much, the 4th platformer just needs to know they're now on float duty.

Anyway, having done it both ways w/ many of the PS4 crew, either way works just fine.

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Sounds like hard mode requires a different strategy but honestly, it's not nuts when you can simply open your eyes and see what the platform is called based on who is standing on it.

Except that some of those scenarios require everyone to be able to quickly identify the platform, perhaps without looking, and others require you to identify the platform that does not have a person on it. It might be conspicuous by its absence, but you may not have direct line of sight to that platform, and depending on where you're standing you might see another nameplate in that general area.

Doesn't take more than a round or two for everyone to get it. You play with the numbering system and then you play with a different group who has a different numbering system and confusion abounds.

I get what you're saying-- that it is possible to do it with names, but it requires more processing, and for me that encounter is hard enough and using names makes it harder unless you always play with the same group with the same composition. As for the numbers, I don't think I ever ran into a group that used numbers that didn't use the same scheme-- #1 is the platform to the players' left as they enter the room, and #2 is the one on the right, counterclockwise from it... and so on. I have encountered several different naming schemes, but I think all the ones that were numbered were numbered in this way. I could be wrong.

I don't do LFG so I guess I don't run into people who gave themselves unpronounceable names.

Lucky you :)

On the other hand, it's those "near Saturn/Far Saturn" people that really drive me up a wall.

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Sounds like hard mode requires a different strategy but honestly, it's not nuts when you can simply open your eyes and see what the platform is called based on who is standing on it.

Except that some of those scenarios require everyone to be able to quickly identify the platform, perhaps without looking, and others require you to identify the platform that does not have a person on it. It might be conspicuous by its absence, but you may not have direct line of sight to that platform, and depending on where you're standing you might see another nameplate in that general area.

Doesn't take more than a round or two for everyone to get it. You play with the numbering system and then you play with a different group who has a different numbering system and confusion abounds.

I get what you're saying-- that it is possible to do it with names, but it requires more processing, and for me that encounter is hard enough and using names makes it harder unless you always play with the same group with the same composition.

My raids have had lots of wipes--I play with the same group many times. :)

As for the numbers, I don't think I ever ran into a group that used numbers that didn't use the same scheme-- #1 is the platform to the players' left as they enter the room, and #2 is the one on the right, counterclockwise from it... and so on. I have encountered several different naming schemes, but I think all the ones that were numbered were numbered in this way. I could be wrong.

Well, that's how I'd number them if I were going to, so there's that.

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I'm with you. That's how we did it on our first raid, and worked well. Maybe our group was just weird. I think someone suggested a numbering system, but we kept reverting to just saying our names. We did it enough times without switching positions that it amounted to the same thing though, really.

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EDIT: Turns out position 2 is really easy for the Oryx fight, so even under leveled you should be able to do it. However, you're guaranteed some bomb ass armor for golgoroth, so just run that a couple times.

Not only is there lack of info on Bungie's part, I get confused by the universally accepted strategies adopted by the community that are not fully communicated.
Position 2?????

One common breakdown -
6 positions:

Runner
Platform 1 (the one Oryx pounds on)
Platform 2 (the next platform, counterclockwise)
Platform 3 (the third platform, counterclockwise)

2 floaters (when doing challenge, these are responsible for all ogres, and Knight 4)

Platform 2 is responsible for Knight 2 (so lots of time to set up), random adds, and staying alive - easiest job of the 6. :)

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On easy mode, I much much much prefer calling out platforms from the beginning and sticking with them. On hard mode, it takes so much work to damage the ogres, and each position has another job, there has to be two guys off platforms in the middle damaging ogres.

For those new to hard mode, this makes sense because just about every job on hard mode is difficult. The platformers have to snipe knights in reverse of the ogres, and do it quick. The ogres need to be downed at the same time, and as simple as it sounds, it isn't. Specialization on the task is pretty much necessary. Having one guy on each platform, then swapping the fourth guy into the middle makes it an exceptionally complicated run.

Otherwise, you're right. Names or designations. On sisters, I always get dibs on spawn side right, and I always note where others are so I can replace them if they get stuck as runner. It's just not an option for hard mode Oryx.

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One challenge per week that cycles. Warpriest, Golgoroth, Oryx. The challenge is always the same:

Defeat Warpriest without anyone holding the Aura more than once.
Defeat Golgoroth with everyone holding the Gaze per Orb cycle.
Defeat Oryx with a single set of detonations (minimum 16 bombs). <- This week.

Bungie dropped hints on Twitter the first week, people deduced the meaning of the clues, and confirmed them with test runs.

Word-of-mouth and streams spread the news to everyone else.

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Once again I'm not getting the twitter joke.

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also, every Tuesday on Reddit there is a "Weekly Reset Megathread" that has everything about the reset in it.

Every day, there is a "Daily Reset Megathread"

Every Iron Banner, there is an "Iron Banner Megathread"

Every Wednesday, there is an "Armsday megathread"

Every Friday there are separate "Xur" and "Trials of Osiris" megathreads.

I usually just check the destiny reddit after a reset to see what has changed, b/c the corresponding megathreads usually have all pertinent info.

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also, every Tuesday on Reddit there is a "Weekly Reset Megathread" that has everything about the reset in it.

Every day, there is a "Daily Reset Megathread"

Every Iron Banner, there is an "Iron Banner Megathread"

Every Wednesday, there is an "Armsday megathread"

Every Friday there are separate "Xur" and "Trials of Osiris" megathreads.

I usually just check the destiny reddit after a reset to see what has changed, b/c the corresponding megathreads usually have all pertinent info.

Thanks. Believe me I've searched. Just not for weekly reset. Durr.

(That said, I wasn't entirely sure if it was reset weekly.)

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One challenge per week that cycles. Warpriest, Golgoroth, Oryx.

It does bother me that a site like PlantDestiny wouldn't include this basic information in the Challenge Mode Guide.

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One challenge per week that cycles. Warpriest, Golgoroth, Oryx.

It does bother me that a site like PlantDestiny wouldn't include this basic information in the Challenge Mode Guide.

Certainly an oversight. Bungie did talk about it in their updates week to week, but that doesn't really help those who are looking for the info after the fact. The in-game director screen does communicate which challenge is currently active, but that's not something most people would think to look at unless they're actually sitting down to do the event. Basically, there's a lot of info surrounding challenge mode that is easy to miss.

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One challenge per week that cycles. Warpriest, Golgoroth, Oryx.

It does bother me that a site like PlantDestiny wouldn't include this basic information in the Challenge Mode Guide.

Certainly an oversight. Bungie did talk about it in their updates week to week, but that doesn't really help those who are looking for the info after the fact. The in-game director screen does communicate which challenge is currently active, but that's not something most people would think to look at unless they're actually sitting down to do the event.

It does? Well, then. I am dumb. I mean, I thought I looked for it there, but I must not have.

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Maybe I'm just generally frustrated. I like raiding. It's my favorite Destiny activity, but I'm feeling left behind. A lot of people seem to have gotten to the going-through-the-motions stage. (I'm not there.) On the other hand, FTB events fill up quicker than I can sign up for them these days.

Right now I have 5 friends that are just starting to play Destiny. I just took 2 of them through Kings Fall for the first time this past week. We made it to Oryx, but aren't going to finish this week. They also prefer starting a bit earlier, so I know they will be looking for people to play with. I'm in the process of turning them on to this site.

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AM I DUMB? King's Fall challenges and other mysteries. (Destiny)