That is, if you thought they were issues.

But then, people also complain about SRL because "racing has no business being in an FPS game".

Infinite amount of monkeys.
Infinite amount of typewriters.
Yet to result in Shakespeare.

I can understand the guy at the top. He is the same as many of us who don't play Crucible except for iron banner or Trials, when there is a perceived benefit. That ain't me, but I get it.

I also understand the guy at the bottom. He just plays to kill time and he likes stuff easy.

I identify with him. I signed up for the casual raid yesterday hoping it would be casual. We did the Golgoroth challenge, and did hard mode Oryx, where, for specialization's sake, I couldn't do the job I liked and did a different job. I was about 30% irritated for the entire raid because we did, bar none, the hardest stuff in the game. I didn't sign up for none of this hard stuff. I'm there to kill time while I chat with my friends. Somewhere after it ended I realized I was just being a butthead, but I understand how that guy feels.

What I don't understand is why he is upset about it in the way he is. If a video game took off the "kindergarten" difficulty or something, yeah, I get it. This is MULTIPLAYER. He seems to want the game to only be easy for him, and he either doesnt realize or doesn't care that he put it on hard mode for the other players.

I don't know man. Maybe they aren't even upset. For example, I make a lot of jokes referencing apparent inconsistencies with Bungie's choices involving Destiny, and I complain a bit while I play. But to me, it's like if someone made me the best oatmeal cookies on the planet (my fave), but then threw cranberries in. I'd probably bring up the cranberries a lot. Like why would you make bomb ass cookies and then put in CRANBERRIES?!

They might just be saying stuff to say stuff.

Really? I think the idea of ranked and unranked playlists would be pretty non-controversial. That second opinion seemed pretty reasonable.

From two different, back-to-back posts on reddit, in a thread complaining about skill-based matchmaking:

"If you really think about it, there's absolutely no reason to play crucible. No goal, no objective apart from grinding rep. Nothing. No tiers of PvP armour, nothing tied to a certain level of play. It just basic for everyone."

There's a great reason to play crucible. It's called "you enjoy pvp." A game should be fun first, and offer rewards second. If you don't like pvp, don't play those modes. The fact that there are no real rewards for it should make your decision not to play it even easier.

"Sometimes I don't want to have to get sweaty in every game. Without skill based matchmaking, I didn't have to try hard since I was either getting stomped or stomping. Every game now it's like clawing tooth and nail for kills. Just give me an unranked playlist so I can listen to music full blast, sit back in my seat and just have a good time."

I don't get this either. What about his game is preventing him from listening to music and having a good time? I get not wanting to be sweaty in every game, and I agree that the current matchmaking is too limited in terms of player pool on a game by game basis, but getting sweaty is a good thing. I had a game of skirmish last night that we won by 110 points because of a lucky super at 30 seconds to go and then our whole team just hid from the enemy until time ran out. It was crazy fun!

if I had to guess, I'd guess this guy was only going into crucible to do bounties or something, but because the games are close now, he's finding himself focusing on winning instead of ignoring the outcome and playing with sub-par weapons just to finish off his bounties?

I understand that people play games (and specifically Destiny) for different reasons than I do... but wow. I can't even wrap my brain around these views - and the fact that they came one right after another in a thread makes my head spin.

Yeah, these guys are both complaining that they're willingly participating in an activity they don't enjoy. At least in TTK you don't *have* to run the raid endlessly hoping for that lucky drop so you can get the one gun that is actually the best gun in PvP if you want to compete in PvP.

I absolutely adore competitive gameplay, and I love playing Trials. Trials is a beast of its own filled with intensity, challenge, stress, laughter, and everything that made previous Halo games great when playing in tournaments or in ranked playlists.

Having said that, I can't get enough of Crucible. Outside of Trials (and occasionally Iron Banner), I don't think I've grabbed any Crucible bounties since before the Taken King. I don't care about the exp or ranking my stuff up. I go into Crucible with the weapons and armor I like (whether aesthetically or for stomping people), and I have at it. I don't need there to be a lot at stake beyond just wanting to win the game. If I lose, I enjoy staying in the lobby and hoping the other team sticks around for a rematch.

I sort of empathize with poster #2, since I get the desire to want ranked/skill-based gameplay in its own area as opposed to social playlists (there's a big difference in Team Slayer vs. Social Slayer in Halo 3, as an example), but I can't say I've really felt much of a difference playing Crucible pre-revelation of skill-based searches vs. post. It still doesn't even come close to comparing to Trials or Iron Banner, especially since light level is equalized.

Not that there aren't times thatI'd like a switch labeled "Let the Raga win" I could throw after I have a few bad games, but sheesh, the best games are the ones that are close. (...and that I do win... :p )

The no point comment is just plain dumb though... In Bungie style multiplayer. The point is its a test of skill and reflexes and cunning! :)

From two different, back-to-back posts on reddit, in a thread complaining about skill-based matchmaking:

"If you really think about it, there's absolutely no reason to play crucible. No goal, no objective apart from grinding rep. Nothing. No tiers of PvP armour, nothing tied to a certain level of play. It just basic for everyone."

(emphasis mine) This sentence in particular irks me, and is one of the gripes I have with Destiny (and to some extent, gaming in general)- what 'REASON' should there be, aside from "to have fun"?

Yeah, it's nice when there is a little extra incentive to do something, such as a double XP or an emblem or some other cosmetic doodad, but FUN is supposed to be the reason you play anything.

Quote number one just reeks of some sort of entitlement mentality...

Why are you grinding for rep in something? (You need rep to 'X' someone might say) Ok, well why do you want that thing? Destiny has been getting better at giving players different avenues to obtain high level gear to increase light level.... that's the only 'end game' that Destiny has now. So if you don't enjoy Crucible, maybe, I dunno, don't fucking play it?

Am I being too black and white here?

"Sometimes I don't want to have to get sweaty in every game. Without skill based matchmaking, I didn't have to try hard since I was either getting stomped or stomping. Every game now it's like clawing tooth and nail for kills. Just give me an unranked playlist so I can listen to music full blast, sit back in my seat and just have a good time."

I understand what this person is trying to say. I'm not sure what Bungie intended with some of these crucible modes.

• Trials is supposed to be THE competitive playlist. High stakes. Level advantages.
  
• Iron Banner is the same thing, but without limited lives... Level advantages.
  
• General Crucible then is supposed to be.... more social? balanced? No Level advantages.

I guess I do see a bit of a "hole" here then. If I'm a non-serious competitive player (as in, I want to win, but I'm not going to stress about it like I would in the other play modes) then all I really have is vanilla crucible.

Well, skill based MM turns that on it's head then, doesn't it? I would make the argument that what was "vanilla" Destiny is now more like Iron Banner but with a leveled playing field.

So where do the "casual"of casuals go then? It feels like that's where he's going with this.

I understand that people play games (and specifically Destiny) for different reasons than do... but wow. I can't even wrap my brain around these views - and the fact that they came one right after another in a thread makes my head spin.

I'm not going to lie- I dislike (at time of writing) crucible. The meta game is too much to think about for me. I prefer the simplicity of Halo, where I know my shotgun is the same as your shotgun and I don't have to worry about so many variables. Destiny has too much variety in this way, for me. I can empathize with the second player that for a long time, it WAS "getting stomped vs stomping on" for me. Vanilla Destiny was too easy. It lacked the thrill that I get playing Halo MP.

So I should have liked Trials and IB right? Well, I don't have the guns and armor to be competitive in that because I don't play a lot anymore. I can't devote the time required to level up. So for someone like me who NEEDS level advantages to be disabled, the new crucible sounds like a good thing! I'll have closer games, I don't have to worry about light. Good good.

But it still leaves out the casual player, in that sense. They don't have a "social slayer" anymore, a place to dick around with other players. In Halo, we all KNEW the difference in skill\seriousness we'd encounter in Team Slayer vs Social Team Slayer.

Destiny MP kinda lacks that, now. I would expect it to change and see things get re-tooled.

In terms of competitiveness, you've got

Hard - Trials
Medium - IB
Normal - Vanilla
Easy - ????

That first quote is exactly just nail and hammer. There really is no solid reward/benefit for playing Crucible. Then again, the same thing could be said for most multiplayer games. Yes, Destiny is unique in the fact that they actually give rewards to people in Crucible as an incentive for completing a game, but most of the time(at least for me) those rewards are mostly forgettable. I've very rarely gotten a Legendary reward, and in nearly every case, it's not powerful enough to keep or infuse. The only times I ever received an Exotic weapon from Crucible is less than 24 hours after buying the same one from Xur. Now I agree with you in that if you don't like it, don't play it. Which is why of course I stay away from it whenever I can. But I can't help but agree with that 1st post. I'm not expecting a 320(although that would be nice, Bungie) but we can at least get something other than whatever Arcite is selling. I want to earn something that will make me say "Ooh, wow! I got a cool ___", or "Whoa, what's that? I've never heard of this before..." But with the increased pool of rewards still being somewhat lackluster, there really is no reason to play Crucible--unless you like it.

The second post was stupid.