TripleWRECK on Destiny's Current State

This is where I am at right now. Definitely some really good points made, but its more of a rant. Worth listen (the video is just gameplay) IMO.

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Fallout 4 NEW DLC THIS MONTH?
No.
Can Sony trademark Let's Play?
No.
Is Bungie RUINING Destiny? (I saw this one just last week, but IDK where)
No.

So far it's served me well.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines

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The lack of new, relevant content is actually reducing the consistent player base.

Of course a YouTube video has a hyperbolic title. That is just how it works nowadays.

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Yeah, you're probably right.

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I don't know how people have the time to burn through content like they burn through Destiny content. I still have dozens of quests to finish on my two active characters. I haven't touched a Titan since the Taken King came out.

Did Bungie lie? Maybe. Maybe it was a miscommunication. I don't really know. I agree that if they were dishonest an upfront apology would be appropriate. Maybe skilled-based matchmaking was a mistake for the community on the whole. (For me it was great! I got to be the top crucible dog a few times--a new experience!) They'll learn and adjust as they always have.

Here's the thing. Can people express themselves without hyperbole? It doesn't seem to me they can anymore. I guess when everyone has a mic that's the way you differentiate yourself, but I grow weary of hearing about the death of Destiny, as if it's normal to play a game as much as people play Destiny and not get burned out. I think people expect Destiny to be an everlasting gobstopper of gaming. Geez, read a book, watch a movie, have dinner with family and friends. Play something else for a while. Chances are you'll like Destiny more when you come back.

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I think people expect Destiny to be an everlasting gobstopper of gaming.

This was expected, because this is what was originally envisioned and promised by Bungie. A promise I KNEW they couldn't keep by the way. I even said so six years ago. Apparently the future isn't so hard to predict after all.

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I think people expect Destiny to be an everlasting gobstopper of gaming.

This was expected, because this is what was originally envisioned and promised by Bungie. A promise I KNEW they couldn't keep by the way. I even said so six years ago. Apparently the future isn't so hard to predict after all.

Regardless of what some expected, Bungie never promised a constant flow of content, and you know it. The best info we ever had was the leaked contract that showed the plan at one point in time was to deliver major updates on a yearly basis. Leave your incorrect, baseless six year predictions out of the conversation. Thanks.

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I think people expect Destiny to be an everlasting gobstopper of gaming.

This was expected, because this is what was originally envisioned and promised by Bungie. A promise I KNEW they couldn't keep by the way. I even said so six years ago. Apparently the future isn't so hard to predict after all.

Regardless of what some expected, Bungie never promised a constant flow of content, and you know it. The best info we ever had was the leaked contract that showed the plan at one point in time was to deliver major updates on a yearly basis. Leave your incorrect, baseless six year predictions out of the conversation. Thanks.

Did you watch any of the marketing prerelease? Bungie repeatedly said they want people logging in and playing frequently. They said they wanted things for players to do every day. They said they wanted the game to be a hobby in to itself. They said they had a huge social world that players would not want to leave.

Nothing I expected or just said came from the contract. Straight from their own videos and press releases.

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Did you watch any of the marketing prerelease? Bungie repeatedly said they want people logging in and playing frequently. They said they wanted things for players to do every day. They said they wanted the game to be a hobby in to itself. They said they had a huge social world that players would not want to leave.

Nothing I expected or just said came from the contract. Straight from their own videos and press releases.

Nowhere did they say that stuff is supposed to be true FOREVER. Lots of people did log in every single day (lots still do). It definitely is a hobby in to itself for thousands of people.

Seems like they met those expectations to me. It's all about having reasonable expectations, which honestly seems like an unreasonable expectation when we're talking about the internet.

Halo had half as much content as Destiny (and many games released today still do), but people didn't bitch about that. If people played Destiny in the same manner they played Halo (sanely, without expecting it to hand out free handjobs every day), they'd probably be much, much happier. I sure am.

Play the game when you want to play it for fun and not at any other time. Why no one can understand this is beyond me.

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Halo had half as much content as Destiny (and many games released today still do), but people didn't bitch about that. If people played Destiny in the same manner they played Halo (sanely, without expecting it to hand out free handjobs every day), they'd probably be much, much happier. I sure am.

And why do you think this is? Maybe it's because Destiny is an MMO and Halo is an FPS. Huh wow. Different genres have different expectations. Who would have thought!

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Halo had half as much content as Destiny (and many games released today still do), but people didn't bitch about that. If people played Destiny in the same manner they played Halo (sanely, without expecting it to hand out free handjobs every day), they'd probably be much, much happier. I sure am.

And why do you think this is? Maybe it's because Destiny is an MMO and Halo is an FPS. Huh wow. Different genres have different expectations. Who would have thought!

Today I learned Destiny isn't a FPS! Here I've been deluded for a year and half!

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Halo had half as much content as Destiny (and many games released today still do), but people didn't bitch about that. If people played Destiny in the same manner they played Halo (sanely, without expecting it to hand out free handjobs every day), they'd probably be much, much happier. I sure am.

And why do you think this is? Maybe it's because Destiny is an MMO and Halo is an FPS. Huh wow. Different genres have different expectations. Who would have thought!

Today I learned Destiny isn't a FPS! Here I've been deluded for a year and half!

Glad you learned. It is an MMO with FPS elements.

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Seems more like an FPS that is complicated by its MMO/RPG like elements to me.

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Do you remember before Destiny launched? How Bungie consistently and stubbornly maintained that Destiny isn't a MMO? You think that just maybe might have been for a reason? You think maybe they were trying to set expectations and avoid the exact situation that's occurring right now?

That's my point. If people didn't view Destiny as a MMO in which you need to grind every day, but instead played it like they play any other FPS, they'd all have much more fun with the game, and we'd all be better off. Destiny isn't WoW, it was never supposed to be. Stop pretending like it is.

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Do you remember before Destiny launched? How Bungie consistently and stubbornly maintained that Destiny isn't a MMO? You think that just maybe might have been for a reason? You think maybe they were trying to set expectations and avoid the exact situation that's occurring right now?

That's my point. If people didn't view Destiny as a MMO in which you need to grind every day, but instead played it like they play any other FPS, they'd all have much more fun with the game, and we'd all be better off. Destiny isn't WoW, it was never supposed to be. Stop pretending like it is.

The random loot gives me a non-optimal loadout and I'm not able to tweak my loadout to my playstyle so 90% of my time in Destiny is spent frustrated that I don't have what I need.

When I pick up a BR in Halo 5 Arena, it's the same BR that everyone else can pick up. I'm focused on actually PLAYing the game and having fun, rather than worrying about my progress.

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I never got snipers or shotguns in Halo because the rest of the team spent all game hogging them rather then playing the objective. The one thing I've always like about COD was the ability to choose your guns, and customize them to some extent to fit your style.

I would like to see some more customization in Destiny guns. Right now you only have a sight/2nd perk choice 99% of the time, which is why I have 4 1kS sitting in my vault rather then one.

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I never got snipers or shotguns in Halo because the rest of the team spent all game hogging them rather then playing the objective. The one thing I've always like about COD was the ability to choose your guns, and customize them to some extent to fit your style.

I would like to see some more customization in Destiny guns. Right now you only have a sight/2nd perk choice 99% of the time, which is why I have 4 1kS sitting in my vault rather then one.

I like knowing that there is a limited amount of snipers and rockets on the map, that way they can be controlled/avoided. Every single person spawning with a shotgun or sniper? Really obnoxious. If I want to play something not competitive, I'll play PvE, if I DO want to compete on a fair playing field? I'll play Halo 5 Arena.

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I like knowing that there is a limited amount of snipers and rockets on the map, that way they can be controlled/avoided. Every single person spawning with a shotgun or sniper? Really obnoxious. If I want to play something not competitive, I'll play PvE, if I DO want to compete on a fair playing field? I'll play Halo 5 Arena.

This comes down to weapon balance. If Snipers/Shotguns/Fusions are set up correctly, using them outside their ideal range and situation is a disadvantage. Battlefield 4 is a good example of this, with snipers being a primary but tough to use close in, while shotguns quickly lose effectiveness at range. The maps tend to have a good combination of inside/outside environments where each weapon has home field advantage.

This is why I prefer more objective type games, since forcing people to an objective makes staying in your weapon's comfort zone less tenable.

You can see this in Trials pretty clearly. Where the goal is just to kill, players optimize to 1KS/Last Word in order to have the long range and close range bands covered, knowing mid range engagements will be rare.

In Halo, part of the skill of the game was knowing your current weapons optimum distance and engaging in it against opponents outside of their own. Bungie has been working to make the primaries fit that mold, but the Primary/Special relationship still needs work.

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I think people expect Destiny to be an everlasting gobstopper of gaming.

This was expected, because this is what was originally envisioned and promised by Bungie. A promise I KNEW they couldn't keep by the way. I even said so six years ago. Apparently the future isn't so hard to predict after all.

Regardless of what some expected, Bungie never promised a constant flow of content, and you know it. The best info we ever had was the leaked contract that showed the plan at one point in time was to deliver major updates on a yearly basis. Leave your incorrect, baseless six year predictions out of the conversation. Thanks.

Did you watch any of the marketing prerelease? Bungie repeatedly said they want people logging in and playing frequently. They said they wanted things for players to do every day. They said they wanted the game to be a hobby in to itself. They said they had a huge social world that players would not want to leave.

Nothing I expected or just said came from the contract. Straight from their own videos and press releases.

I think its kinda neat how you start calling Bungie liars if something doesn't happen in accordance within your personal timeframe. How you attribute full blown promises to marketing materials. It's cute in an infuriatingly, obtusely naive kind of way.

That said, have you tried being realistic about the timeline for new content? Destiny took what, three years to make? Maybe five? And the previous expansions? The Dark Below took some three months to come out. House of Wolves was some five months after that. The Taken King was another four months. Given that both The Dark Below and House of Wolves were widely considered lackluster is it any surprise that after only four months no new major expansions have come out?

Or are you sticking with your usual "Bungie lied" crap?

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That said, have you tried being realistic about the timeline for new content? Destiny took what, three years to make? Maybe five? And the previous expansions? The Dark Below took some three months to come out. House of Wolves was some five months after that. The Taken King was another four months. Given that both The Dark Below and House of Wolves were widely considered lackluster is it any surprise that after only four months no new major expansions have come out?

Or are you sticking with your usual "Bungie lied" crap?

They misled. But even another Dark Below, which by the way had a new raid, is better than Sparrow Racing.

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That said, have you tried being realistic about the timeline for new content? Destiny took what, three years to make? Maybe five? And the previous expansions? The Dark Below took some three months to come out. House of Wolves was some five months after that. The Taken King was another four months. Given that both The Dark Below and House of Wolves were widely considered lackluster is it any surprise that after only four months no new major expansions have come out?

Or are you sticking with your usual "Bungie lied" crap?

They misled.

No. You misinterpreted. Grossly so. Deliberately So. You took what was actually said, in feel good marketing material for goodness sake, and crammed it into your depressingly negative preconceived notions. And then you post about it for six freaking years declaring doom and gloom over and over. I'm not sure why. Not sure what you get out of it. Just consider this:

There are other plausible explanations. Ones that don't involve synonyms for "lied."

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Bungie promised weekly content updates.

Remember Queen's Wrath? Just the first of many events like that they had planned, right?

Destiny has been a game about over promising and under delivering when it comes to scope, story, and content. But it did deliver fun in spades, and that's pretty significant. I wish I didn't have to actively remind myself that some activities I don't enjoy do not *need* to be completed, but not every dish is for every customer, am I right?

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Bungie promised weekly content updates.

Remember Queen's Wrath? Just the first of many events like that they had planned, right?

Destiny has been a game about over promising and under delivering when it comes to scope, story, and content. But it did deliver fun in spades, and that's pretty significant. I wish I didn't have to actively remind myself that some activities I don't enjoy do not *need* to be completed, but not every dish is for every customer, am I right?

There were three things that led me to expect too much, and it could have been avoided.

1. The concept art leak showing tons and tons of spaces.
2. Vidocs promising we could explore the whole solar system. Combined with the concept art leak, this made the scope seem massive.
3. The alpha was said to be 3-5% of the final game by Bungie. It was closer to 20%.

Given all of that, I was truly expecting multiple patrol spaces per planet, and to go to Jupiter's moons, Saturn, etc. I wasn't the only one. I remember the announcement of one patrol space per planet was met with surprise and worry by many.

Number three is particularly egregious, because that was misleading, and a borderline falsehood. I get that Bungie can't control leaks, but they made no effort whatsoever to temper expectations and say "hey, this is all concept art, not all these places are planned for launch". When they said I could go to Saturn, they did not qualify that with "eventually".

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Bungie promised weekly content updates.

Remember Queen's Wrath? Just the first of many events like that they had planned, right?

Destiny has been a game about over promising and under delivering when it comes to scope, story, and content. But it did deliver fun in spades, and that's pretty significant. I wish I didn't have to actively remind myself that some activities I don't enjoy do not *need* to be completed, but not every dish is for every customer, am I right?

There were three things that led me to expect too much, and it could have been avoided.

1. The concept art leak showing tons and tons of spaces.
2. Vidocs promising we could explore the whole solar system. Combined with the concept art leak, this made the scope seem massive.
3. The alpha was said to be 3-5% of the final game by Bungie. It was closer to 20%.

Given all of that, I was truly expecting multiple patrol spaces per planet, and to go to Jupiter's moons, Saturn, etc. I wasn't the only one. I remember the announcement of one patrol space per planet was met with surprise and worry by many.

Number three is particularly egregious, because that was misleading, and a borderline falsehood. I get that Bungie can't control leaks, but they made no effort whatsoever to temper expectations and say "hey, this is all concept art, not all these places are planned for launch". When they said I could go to Saturn, they did not qualify that with "eventually".

I agree. The marketing was so hyped and so good at insinuating the scale of the game. "If you see mountains in the distance, you can go there" made me salivate when I heard it, but it was simply a lie. Saturn, Old Chicago... More of the same.

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Bungie promised weekly content updates.

Remember Queen's Wrath? Just the first of many events like that they had planned, right?

Destiny has been a game about over promising and under delivering when it comes to scope, story, and content. But it did deliver fun in spades, and that's pretty significant. I wish I didn't have to actively remind myself that some activities I don't enjoy do not *need* to be completed, but not every dish is for every customer, am I right?

There were three things that led me to expect too much, and it could have been avoided.

1. The concept art leak showing tons and tons of spaces.
2. Vidocs promising we could explore the whole solar system. Combined with the concept art leak, this made the scope seem massive.
3. The alpha was said to be 3-5% of the final game by Bungie. It was closer to 20%.

Given all of that, I was truly expecting multiple patrol spaces per planet, and to go to Jupiter's moons, Saturn, etc. I wasn't the only one. I remember the announcement of one patrol space per planet was met with surprise and worry by many.

Number three is particularly egregious, because that was misleading, and a borderline falsehood. I get that Bungie can't control leaks, but they made no effort whatsoever to temper expectations and say "hey, this is all concept art, not all these places are planned for launch". When they said I could go to Saturn, they did not qualify that with "eventually".

I agree. The marketing was so hyped and so good at insinuating the scale of the game. "If you see mountains in the distance, you can go there" made me salivate when I heard it, but it was simply a lie. Saturn, Old Chicago... More of the same.

The statement about the mountains wasn't marketing. Unless I'm wrong, it wasn't even said more than once. It wasn't part of the presentation script. And making Bethesda sized playable areas certainly was never, ever part the Destiny gameplan. One wonders why you and others cling to it so strongly.

Saturn wasn't a lie. Jason Jones even talked about a ship in orbit of Saturn being a playable space in a issue of Game Informer of around that time. The obvious answer, to those without an agenda at least, is that it was either always planned for later or it got pushed back due to development troubles. Lying doesn't even enter the equation with some many much more plausible answers floating about.

And Old Chicago? It was a piece of concept art released among like a dozen or two dozen other pieces of concept art. It was later described as illustrating the way Destiny's world was even if we wouldn't be going to any time soon if ever. It wasn't even the only location shown that we didn't go to. I can count three more off the top of my head. Did Bungie lie about those too?! Get real.

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I agree. The marketing was so hyped and so good at insinuating the scale of the game. "If you see mountains in the distance, you can go there" made me salivate when I heard it, but it was simply a lie. Saturn, Old Chicago... More of the same.

The statement about the mountains wasn't marketing. Unless I'm wrong, it wasn't even said more than once. It wasn't part of the presentation script. And making Bethesda sized playable areas certainly was never, ever part the Destiny gameplan. One wonders why you and others cling to it so strongly.

I clearly seem to be in the minority here, but when I saw that video and heard that statement I 100% understood it to mean that the engine was rendering the mountain, not as a matte. I never thought about it as meaning that it would be a part of the game to go there. Dunno. It's just weird because I remember my thought process out it perfectly.

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I agree. The marketing was so hyped and so good at insinuating the scale of the game. "If you see mountains in the distance, you can go there" made me salivate when I heard it, but it was simply a lie. Saturn, Old Chicago... More of the same.

The statement about the mountains wasn't marketing. Unless I'm wrong, it wasn't even said more than once. It wasn't part of the presentation script. And making Bethesda sized playable areas certainly was never, ever part the Destiny gameplan. One wonders why you and others cling to it so strongly.

I clearly seem to be in the minority here, but when I saw that video and heard that statement I 100% understood it to mean that the engine was rendering the mountain, not as a matte. I never thought about it as meaning that it would be a part of the game to go there. Dunno. It's just weird because I remember my thought process out it perfectly.

Yeah, this totally strikes me as a classic example of why big corporate studios don't like it when the media interviews random members of the Dev team who don't have a highly practiced "safe list" to read from. A designer could say "if you can see it, you can go there" meaning "when I'm working within the level editor, I can really go over to those mountains that are really being built within the engine", not "the player will be able to go there in the final shipping game".

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Bungie promised weekly content updates.

Remember Queen's Wrath? Just the first of many events like that they had planned, right?

Destiny has been a game about over promising and under delivering when it comes to scope, story, and content. But it did deliver fun in spades, and that's pretty significant. I wish I didn't have to actively remind myself that some activities I don't enjoy do not *need* to be completed, but not every dish is for every customer, am I right?

There were three things that led me to expect too much, and it could have been avoided.

1. The concept art leak showing tons and tons of spaces.
2. Vidocs promising we could explore the whole solar system. Combined with the concept art leak, this made the scope seem massive.
3. The alpha was said to be 3-5% of the final game by Bungie. It was closer to 20%.

Given all of that, I was truly expecting multiple patrol spaces per planet, and to go to Jupiter's moons, Saturn, etc. I wasn't the only one. I remember the announcement of one patrol space per planet was met with surprise and worry by many.

Number three is particularly egregious, because that was misleading, and a borderline falsehood. I get that Bungie can't control leaks, but they made no effort whatsoever to temper expectations and say "hey, this is all concept art, not all these places are planned for launch". When they said I could go to Saturn, they did not qualify that with "eventually".

Where did Bungie say that thing about 3-5% again? A press release? A ViDoc? A weekly update? An in game event dialog box? No. More like it was like a private comment made solely to you or something like that, wasn't it? If you want to talk about being misleading, you're ground zero. Your statement is misleading because "Bungie" didn't say that. Not publicly. Certainly not officially.

As for the other stuff... I think it was GDC 2013 where Staten said that Bungie had produced more concept art for Destiny than they had for all their other games combined. Why does the answer have to be they mislead people? Why can't it be they made concept art of places that never made it to production, that maybe were never meant to make it to production, but still showed off the world of Destiny in insightful ways? And the ViDocs... you've been posting about Bungie lying on and off again for like three years now based on a single sentence. And now you keep on calling them liars even after that sentence has come to pass! It's pathetic.

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Bungie promised weekly content updates.

Remember Queen's Wrath? Just the first of many events like that they had planned, right?

You tell me. We're talking promises here. Not things you infer. Certainly not things you make up and provide not a scrap of evidence for. I read through all the Weekly Updates having to do with the original Queen's Wrath. I read through all the other articles of that time period that mention queen, queen's, and wrath. None of them mention, hint at, or promise weekly anything.

If you're claim is they promised weekly content updates then prove it.

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Bungie promised weekly content updates.

Remember Queen's Wrath? Just the first of many events like that they had planned, right?

You tell me. We're talking promises here. Not things you infer. Certainly not things you make up and provide not a scrap of evidence for. I read through all the Weekly Updates having to do with the original Queen's Wrath. I read through all the other articles of that time period that mention queen, queen's, and wrath. None of them mention, hint at, or promise weekly anything.

If you're claim is they promised weekly content updates then prove it.

whether or not it's intended, you're coming across pretty disrespectfully. I'm voicing an opinion, and whether or not you agree with it, claiming it isn't as valid as yours is kind of rude.

I also doubt you went back and read every press release Bungie ever made just to prove some guy wrong on the internet. In fact, I know you didn't because:

Here's a news post about the original Queen's Wrath.

Note the starting text:

There should always be something new to experience every time you play Destiny.

That's the message they gave us from pre-launch hype all the way through at least Queen's Wrath and the early Iron Banners. Always something new. Always. Something. New. And it's turned out to be more of that *insinuated* but not *promised* category of double-speak. They don't expressly say that "something new" means "new content." It's intentionally vague to let us guess at its meaning. In court they could argue that a slightly different roll on your loot drops is "something new" and they wouldn't be wrong (though they would be pedantic dicks).

I read these messages and thought they meant there would be a steady stream of new content over the life of the game. You can (and, knowing you, you will) say that it's my fault for believing that when they clearly never specified exactly what they meant by "something new," and you wouldn't be wrong, but you would be ignoring the insinuation given the context. Here's some new content for you. Destiny should always have something new for you. Those two statements are independant, but when read next to each other, they sure seem to say that there's going to be a lot more new content rolling out in the future.

In fact, it seems that they meant that they'd recycle old content regularly with small tweaks to the gear you got which made it somehow "new." Now, personally, I consider that "different" and not "new" but now we're arguing semantics, which isn't the point here.

The point is that I initially thought Bungie was of the "under promise and over deliver" school of business. You know, the one that earned my loyalty all the way back when Pathways into Darkness first came out. But since Destiny they've been more of the "promise nothing but insinuate something to keep up interest" school of thought. Frankly, it's probably Activision's marketing division's fault more than Bungie's, but there still hasn't been a shift away from this sort of misleading double-speak and I now assume the minimum will be done when told something is coming. "Pre order for special vanguard weapons pack" means "access to some shitty guns you'll use for maybe five minutes" because that's basically the bare minimum it could mean. "we're improving high impact AR damage" means "0.04% increased damage." "We didn't make any changes to matchmaking" means "Skill based matchmaking is totally a thing now."

You could say I'm cherry picking the worst examples (and I am), but that's entirely the point. The fact that these things are true means that, for any given insinuation, the barest of minimums pretty much has to be assumed, lest I set myself up for inevitable disappointment.

Bungie has turned me into a cynic when it comes to Bungie's messaging. That's not good for them or their brand, as far as I'm concerned, and it is no longer a foregone conclusion that I'm going to buy the next Bungie product. I don't know why they'd want to persist with messaging that is detrimental to retaining the business of self-described fanboys, but they are. Clearly they haven't lost you yet, but they've lost me.

I'll concede that SRL surprised the hell out of me and I loved it. But it's gone now with no sign of returning. I'm not sure what to think about that. Bungie giveth and Bungie taketh away. Is that how we want devs to behave?

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Whether or not it's intended, you're coming across pretty disrespectfully. I'm voicing an opinion, and whether or not you agree with it, claiming it isn't as valid as yours is kind of rude.

You jumped into this conversation by making the claim that: "Bungie promised weekly content updates." All I did was call you out on what you said. You were wrong. End of story.

I also doubt you went back and read every press release Bungie ever made just to prove some guy wrong on the internet. In fact, I know you didn't because:

Here's a news post about the original Queen's Wrath.

Again, you are dead wrong. I read that article. I read every article on Bungie.net with the words queen or wrath in it, just like I said. Maybe you're so used to saying things without proof you just can't help yourself? I also saw the "always something new" you got so giddy about. But then I thought about it in its proper context. That article was posted on Sep 18 2014, a mere nine days after Destiny's launch. Back then each new playlist rotation and elemental burn was new. And, here's the crux of the matter:

I read these messages and thought they meant there would be a steady stream of new content over the life of the game.

Isn't that exactly what we got?! Three months after launch we got The Dark Below. Five months after The Dark Below we got House of Wolves. Four months after House of Wolves we got The Taken King. And along the way we got several bug fixes, UI updates, new features, free multiplayer maps, and even a few surprise events. We're just now past the four month mark since The Taken King. It seems right to me that Bungie should start telling us about what's next any day now. But it also seems right to me that the next big thing might take a bit longer given how The Dark Below and House of Wolves were both received as being to small to justify their price.

Look, I understand you want more content and better content. I want more content and better content too! But look at the pace of development Bungie maintained in the past: Halo 1 (2001), Halo 2 (2004), Halo 3 (2007), ODST (2009), Reach (2010). Destiny is advancing at a breakneck pace compared to Bungie's Halos which saw no new single player content, a couple of multiplayer map packs each, and maybe, if we were lucky, got a Title Update a year later to fix the worst of the bugs.

If a new release of single and multiplayer content ever four to five months wasn't "steady stream" enough for you, just what did you expect? And based on all the games Bungie ever release in the past, why did you think your expectations were even remotely realistic?

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I also doubt you went back and read every press release Bungie ever made just to prove some guy wrong on the internet. In fact, I know you didn't because:

Here's a news post about the original Queen's Wrath.

Note the starting text:

There should always be something new to experience every time you play Destiny.

That's the message they gave us from pre-launch hype all the way through at least Queen's Wrath and the early Iron Banners. Always something new. Always. Something. New. And it's turned out to be more of that *insinuated* but not *promised* category of double-speak. They don't expressly say that "something new" means "new content." It's intentionally vague to let us guess at its meaning. In court they could argue that a slightly different roll on your loot drops is "something new" and they wouldn't be wrong (though they would be pedantic dicks).

How the heck could it possibly mean new content?

If I play Destiny every day, and "something new to experience" means new content, and new content to me means a level, or an enemy, or a gun, or a quest, or a challenge mode, how the heck is Bungie-- or indeed anybody-- supposed to deliver that?

That claim, like all claims, needs be evaluated according to a reasonable person standard. No reasonable person could expect "something new to experience" to mean "new PVE content every time you play". It's simply not possible.

For PVE at least, Destiny is a godsend compared to Halo, where you could, aside from tricking, be largely done the game with after a few weeks and put it on the shelf for three years until the next game comes out. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but the objective here was clearly to be something different, something more engaging over a longer term, which Destiny seems designed to be and is...

...but having become that, people are behaving like addicts. All the current whining about "lack of content" seems like a junkie insisting that the dealer just must be holding out on him.

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If I play Destiny every day, and "something new to experience" means new content, and new content to me means a level, or an enemy, or a gun, or a quest, or a challenge mode, how the heck is Bungie-- or indeed anybody-- supposed to deliver that?

That claim, like all claims, needs be evaluated according to a reasonable person standard. No reasonable person could expect "something new to experience" to mean "new PVE content every time you play". It's simply not possible.

How abou expecting the amount and frequency of content starting with year one? That's possible and reasonable. We should be at that pace or better but never worse.

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If I play Destiny every day, and "something new to experience" means new content, and new content to me means a level, or an enemy, or a gun, or a quest, or a challenge mode, how the heck is Bungie-- or indeed anybody-- supposed to deliver that?

That claim, like all claims, needs be evaluated according to a reasonable person standard. No reasonable person could expect "something new to experience" to mean "new PVE content every time you play". It's simply not possible.

How abou expecting the amount and frequency of content starting with year one? That's possible and reasonable. We should be at that pace or better but never worse.

You mean that year one content that people endlessly bitched and moaned about being shallow and piecemeal to the point that Taken King was praised as saving the game from irrelevance? You mean the year one content that's probably absorbing more developer hours than expected (as things always do) and thus responsible for the presumed delay in the next full game, which is a contractual milestone?

You mean that Year One content?

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If I play Destiny every day, and "something new to experience" means new content, and new content to me means a level, or an enemy, or a gun, or a quest, or a challenge mode, how the heck is Bungie-- or indeed anybody-- supposed to deliver that?

That claim, like all claims, needs be evaluated according to a reasonable person standard. No reasonable person could expect "something new to experience" to mean "new PVE content every time you play". It's simply not possible.

How abou expecting the amount and frequency of content starting with year one? That's possible and reasonable. We should be at that pace or better but never worse.

You mean that year one content that people endlessly bitched and moaned about being shallow and piecemeal to the point that Taken King was praised as saving the game from irrelevance? You mean the year one content that's probably absorbing more developer hours than expected (as things always do) and thus responsible for the presumed delay in the next full game, which is a contractual milestone?

You mean that Year One content?

Not to mention being the Year One content Cody complained about pretty much non-stop during Year One.

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If I play Destiny every day, and "something new to experience" means new content, and new content to me means a level, or an enemy, or a gun, or a quest, or a challenge mode, how the heck is Bungie-- or indeed anybody-- supposed to deliver that?

That claim, like all claims, needs be evaluated according to a reasonable person standard. No reasonable person could expect "something new to experience" to mean "new PVE content every time you play". It's simply not possible.

How abou expecting the amount and frequency of content starting with year one? That's possible and reasonable. We should be at that pace or better but never worse.

You mean that year one content that people endlessly bitched and moaned about being shallow and piecemeal to the point that Taken King was praised as saving the game from irrelevance? You mean the year one content that's probably absorbing more developer hours than expected (as things always do) and thus responsible for the presumed delay in the next full game, which is a contractual milestone?

You mean that Year One content?

Not to mention being the Year One content Cody complained about pretty much non-stop during Year One.

That's one of the things about this whole community-wide "conversation" that confuses me right now. I keep hearing people talk about "the good old days" of year 1 as if half the community was raging and bitching back then, too. I can't say I'm thrilled with what the Live team has produced so far, but I'm not going to complain about free events either. I absolutely do not want more $20 expansions on the level of The Dark Below or House of Wolves (in terms of scope and quality).

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If I play Destiny every day, and "something new to experience" means new content, and new content to me means a level, or an enemy, or a gun, or a quest, or a challenge mode, how the heck is Bungie-- or indeed anybody-- supposed to deliver that?

That claim, like all claims, needs be evaluated according to a reasonable person standard. No reasonable person could expect "something new to experience" to mean "new PVE content every time you play". It's simply not possible.

How abou expecting the amount and frequency of content starting with year one? That's possible and reasonable. We should be at that pace or better but never worse.

You mean that year one content that people endlessly bitched and moaned about being shallow and piecemeal to the point that Taken King was praised as saving the game from irrelevance? You mean the year one content that's probably absorbing more developer hours than expected (as things always do) and thus responsible for the presumed delay in the next full game, which is a contractual milestone?

You mean that Year One content?

Not to mention being the Year One content Cody complained about pretty much non-stop during Year One.

That's one of the things about this whole community-wide "conversation" that confuses me right now. I keep hearing people talk about "the good old days" of year 1 as if half the community was raging and bitching back then, too. I can't say I'm thrilled with what the Live team has produced so far, but I'm not going to complain about free events either. I absolutely do not want more $20 expansions on the level of The Dark Below or House of Wolves (in terms of scope and quality).

I do if this is the alternative. They've already learned not to make boneheaded mistakes. HoW got it mostly right except for the lack of a raid.

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I also doubt you went back and read every press release Bungie ever made just to prove some guy wrong on the internet. In fact, I know you didn't because:

Here's a news post about the original Queen's Wrath.

Note the starting text:

There should always be something new to experience every time you play Destiny.

That's the message they gave us from pre-launch hype all the way through at least Queen's Wrath and the early Iron Banners. Always something new. Always. Something. New. And it's turned out to be more of that *insinuated* but not *promised* category of double-speak. They don't expressly say that "something new" means "new content." It's intentionally vague to let us guess at its meaning. In court they could argue that a slightly different roll on your loot drops is "something new" and they wouldn't be wrong (though they would be pedantic dicks).

How the heck could it possibly mean new content?

Because they gave us new content and then said that's what they plan on doing in the future, giving us something new.

If I play Destiny every day, and "something new to experience" means new content, and new content to me means a level, or an enemy, or a gun, or a quest, or a challenge mode, how the heck is Bungie-- or indeed anybody-- supposed to deliver that?

That claim, like all claims, needs be evaluated according to a reasonable person standard. No reasonable person could expect "something new to experience" to mean "new PVE content every time you play". It's simply not possible.

Now you're not using the reasonableness claim. I didn't say I expected daily new content. I said that they implied there would be regular content updates.

For PVE at least, Destiny is a godsend compared to Halo, where you could, aside from tricking, be largely done the game with after a few weeks and put it on the shelf for three years until the next game comes out. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but the objective here was clearly to be something different, something more engaging over a longer term, which Destiny seems designed to be and is...

Is PvE destiny really better than halo? The AI is worse, the vehicles pale in comparison, the level design is repetitive and uninspired until TTK, and the only reason you probably do any missions at all is for the rewards at the end, not the fun of playing them.

...but having become that, people are behaving like addicts. All the current whining about "lack of content" seems like a junkie insisting that the dealer just must be holding out on him.

Yes, we are, because Bungie specifically filled the game with addiction inducing features in order to hook the players. It's deliberate and it's been successful. So now their addicts want more, and they aren't delivering. Sure you say it's my fault for falling prey to that, but it's akin to saying drug users are to blame and not their dealers. It takes two, and one is clearly abusing the other.

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I also doubt you went back and read every press release Bungie ever made just to prove some guy wrong on the internet. In fact, I know you didn't because:

Here's a news post about the original Queen's Wrath.

Note the starting text:

There should always be something new to experience every time you play Destiny.

That's the message they gave us from pre-launch hype all the way through at least Queen's Wrath and the early Iron Banners. Always something new. Always. Something. New. And it's turned out to be more of that *insinuated* but not *promised* category of double-speak. They don't expressly say that "something new" means "new content." It's intentionally vague to let us guess at its meaning. In court they could argue that a slightly different roll on your loot drops is "something new" and they wouldn't be wrong (though they would be pedantic dicks).

How the heck could it possibly mean new content?

Because they gave us new content and then said that's what they plan on doing in the future, giving us something new.

If I play Destiny every day, and "something new to experience" means new content, and new content to me means a level, or an enemy, or a gun, or a quest, or a challenge mode, how the heck is Bungie-- or indeed anybody-- supposed to deliver that?

That claim, like all claims, needs be evaluated according to a reasonable person standard. No reasonable person could expect "something new to experience" to mean "new PVE content every time you play". It's simply not possible.

Now you're not using the reasonableness claim.

You've gotten the point! No reasonable person could take the claim literally, as "something new to experience" every time one plays could be reasonably interpreted as meaning "every day", EXCEPT that this is impossible.

I didn't say I expected daily new content. I said that they implied there would be regular content updates.

The word "regular" appears nowhere. From the quote you supplied, I can just as easily interpret "daily" as I can "regular". They are both equally reasonable or unreasonable, and both follow as logically from the quotation.

The contract (leaked and now old) states more or less "regular" updates, and the two DLC updates and comet arrived more or less on time. That rate may not be (is probably not) sustainable which is why there's been no solid announcement about whether there will be more DLC or not, and if so, when.

But aside from the initial 1 year delay everything has been on schedule, so what you've got in terms of update is about as "regular" as it was ever going to be, and I expect going forward it may be less so, as I expect the demands of simultaneously producing Destiny 2 while doing two more DLC updates are too high. One of those things, possibly both, is either going to be eliminated or slip.

For PVE at least, Destiny is a godsend compared to Halo, where you could, aside from tricking, be largely done the game with after a few weeks and put it on the shelf for three years until the next game comes out. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but the objective here was clearly to be something different, something more engaging over a longer term, which Destiny seems designed to be and is...

Is PvE destiny really better than halo? The AI is worse, the vehicles pale in comparison, the level design is repetitive and uninspired until TTK, and the only reason you probably do any missions at all is for the rewards at the end, not the fun of playing them.

Nope. I like all of the above things, and I play the game to have fun. Rewards are a way to shape my objectives during the time I play, not the reason I choose to play in the first place.

...but having become that, people are behaving like addicts. All the current whining about "lack of content" seems like a junkie insisting that the dealer just must be holding out on him.

Yes, we are, because Bungie specifically filled the game with addiction inducing features in order to hook the players. It's deliberate and it's been successful. So now their addicts want more, and they aren't delivering. Sure you say it's my fault for falling prey to that, but it's akin to saying drug users are to blame and not their dealers. It takes two, and one is clearly abusing the other.

Certain drugs are physiologically addictive. So while it is not the addict's fault afterwards, one can certainly blame them for the initial use, assuming they made an informed choice about using. Many do not. Is that what you are claiming-- that you made an uninformed choice to begin playing Destiny, and that you find it so poorly made that you don't enjoy playing it, but its design is so addictive you are compelled to play it against your will, and that your next biggest complaint is that you're not getting more bad AI, bad vehicles, and repetitive level design fast enough?

That's pretty pathetic, on top of the fact that I'm pretty sure video games are not physiologically addictive. Psychologically addictive, perhaps, but there is a distinction.

If you feel Bungie is abusing you, walk away or you're just a victim. Seriously. For victims of real abuse or real drug addiction, walking away is hard. This is easy. If you're not having fun, stop playing. If and when Bungie makes more stuff you're addicted to, you can come back. They probably won't even give you a black eye for stepping out on them. Lucky you!

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You're cooking with gas lately, narc. I won't say Kahzgul's perspective is without merit, but as someone who spent a year pretty obsessively playing Destiny and who, I admit, let it take up an unhealthy amount of my time, I can say that now I love Destiny more than ever because I play it less.

An example: I wanted to play every night this week because of Iron Banner. I played Tuesday night. Hasn't worked out otherwise, and that's OKAY. I might not get that chest piece I want for my hunter. I might not get that scout rifle. My Xbox warlock might not get any Iron Banner stuff, and that's OKAY. I play to have fun.

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I just had this discussion with the kidlet. He has played 150 hours and has had the game for less than a month, with a bedtime at 9:30, on a shared TV. He must spend every waking moment possible playing that game.

When he played Iron Banner the other day, he literally cried and started smashing the controller. I know that feeling, it's why I don't play Iron Banner. He isn't addicted, he's just whiny. I had to tell him that the game is supposed to be fun and to not play if he isn't having fun. Don't think he got it. I think I'll implement playtime restrictions.

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I think people expect Destiny to be an everlasting gobstopper of gaming.

This was expected, because this is what was originally envisioned and promised by Bungie. A promise I KNEW they couldn't keep by the way. I even said so six years ago. Apparently the future isn't so hard to predict after all.

So you really thought they were promising to deliver an object with fictional attributes that couldn't exist in reality. And you really thought it was reasonable for people to expect that. Let me paraphrase you.

Bungie clearly promised to deliver a living, breathing unicorn! Bungie hasn't delivered a living, breathing unicorn! Bungie lied! Gamers cried!

Of course, I, Cody Miller, knew all along they couldn't deliver a unicorn, 'cause I'm smart like that.

Nice work if you can get it, Cody.

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I think people expect Destiny to be an everlasting gobstopper of gaming.

This was expected, because this is what was originally envisioned and promised by Bungie. A promise I KNEW they couldn't keep by the way. I even said so six years ago. Apparently the future isn't so hard to predict after all.

So you really thought they were promising to deliver an object with fictional attributes that couldn't exist in reality. And you really thought it was reasonable for people to expect that. Let me paraphrase you.

Bungie clearly promised to deliver a living, breathing unicorn! Bungie hasn't delivered a living, breathing unicorn! Bungie lied! Gamers cried!

Of course, I, Cody Miller, knew all along they couldn't deliver a unicorn, 'cause I'm smart like that.

Nice work if you can get it, Cody.

Exactly. But what they did deliver was a horse with 8 legs. If they cut off four, then now they'll have a beautiful, functional, realistic creature.

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I think people expect Destiny to be an everlasting gobstopper of gaming.

This was expected, because this is what was originally envisioned and promised by Bungie. A promise I KNEW they couldn't keep by the way. I even said so six years ago. Apparently the future isn't so hard to predict after all.

So you really thought they were promising to deliver an object with fictional attributes that couldn't exist in reality. And you really thought it was reasonable for people to expect that. Let me paraphrase you.

Bungie clearly promised to deliver a living, breathing unicorn! Bungie hasn't delivered a living, breathing unicorn! Bungie lied! Gamers cried!

Of course, I, Cody Miller, knew all along they couldn't deliver a unicorn, 'cause I'm smart like that.

Nice work if you can get it, Cody.

Exactly. But what they did deliver was a horse with 8 legs. If they cut off four, then now they'll have a beautiful, functional, realistic creature.

If you understood my point you wouldn't suggest that they did deliver an impossible object.

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I think people expect Destiny to be an everlasting gobstopper of gaming.

This was expected, because this is what was originally envisioned and promised by Bungie. A promise I KNEW they couldn't keep by the way. I even said so six years ago. Apparently the future isn't so hard to predict after all.

So you really thought they were promising to deliver an object with fictional attributes that couldn't exist in reality. And you really thought it was reasonable for people to expect that. Let me paraphrase you.

Bungie clearly promised to deliver a living, breathing unicorn! Bungie hasn't delivered a living, breathing unicorn! Bungie lied! Gamers cried!

Of course, I, Cody Miller, knew all along they couldn't deliver a unicorn, 'cause I'm smart like that.

Nice work if you can get it, Cody.

Exactly. But what they did deliver was a horse with 8 legs. If they cut off four, then now they'll have a beautiful, functional, realistic creature.

If you understood my point you wouldn't suggest that they did deliver an impossible object.

I'm not sure I ever suggested they deliver something impossible. That's why I said it was impossible. I simply criticize them for not delivering on the things they promised that WERE possible.

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Saw an article yesterday on the Verge. Now Is The Perfect Time To Stop Playing Destiny.

The main point is that there's no new major content on the horizon, which is kinda fair, but it descends into statements like:

This past week, I put Destiny away for the first time in 16 months.

What in the hell, man. In the past 16 months I completed Arkham Knight at least twice, Life Is Strange at least three times, Halo+Halo2+Halo3+Halo4+ODST+Reach+Halo5 at least once, put many hours into Fallout 4, beat Rise of the Tomb Raider at least twice and just beat the new DLC today. If you play anything fro 16 months straight you're gonna get burned out. That's not a complaint against Destiny, that's the author being a dummy... if he's telling the truth.

So yep, I agree, it'd be great if we could have discussions about Destiny instead of loud "look at me" rants that really don't make a lost of sense.

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Saw an article yesterday on the Verge. Now Is The Perfect Time To Stop Playing Destiny.

The main point is that there's no new major content on the horizon, which is kinda fair, but it descends into statements like:

This past week, I put Destiny away for the first time in 16 months.

What in the hell, man. In the past 16 months I completed Arkham Knight at least twice, Life Is Strange at least three times, Halo+Halo2+Halo3+Halo4+ODST+Reach+Halo5 at least once, put many hours into Fallout 4, beat Rise of the Tomb Raider at least twice and just beat the new DLC today. If you play anything fro 16 months straight you're gonna get burned out. That's not a complaint against Destiny, that's the author being a dummy... if he's telling the truth.

So yep, I agree, it'd be great if we could have discussions about Destiny instead of loud "look at me" rants that really don't make a lost of sense.

Exactly! It's not normal to play a game for 16 straight months. Expecting ANY game to last that long is asinine. There are other games out there, other shit to do. The things people expect from Destiny are just ridiculous in the dumbest way.

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I'm sure I'll be accused of being too black and white.

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I'm sure I'll be accused of being too black and white.

[image]

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I'm sure I'll be accused of being too black and white.

Ask yourself why this is different from other games. I don't see people who blow through say, Until Dawn in a weekend demanding more content versus those who take a while to finish.

Why do you think this is? You probably know already.

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Why do you think this is? You probably know already.

Because Destiny is such an incredibly fun game that we desperately want more of it? I might feel that way if I weren't still working my way through TTK content.

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I thought it was pretty well stated. I haven't played Destiny in a while, mainly because of Halo 5. But I am both PvE and PvP player, so the lack of PvE content, this slow trickle of "Challenges" pushed me away. If I had played with how bad this lag seems to have been, I may have never looked back (so good thing I didn't play lately).

This balance is hard to find for developers, but for PvP it's pretty simple. Make it fun, make enough maps, and make it playable. yes everyone wants new maps, and that needs to happen eventually. But long term playability is needed as well. Sounds like they have messed up on that front.

For PvE, it's about content, and they have pretty clearly messed that in, which is why I didn't feel bad leaving (plus the grind, I do have a job and Girlfriend, Grind does not work with that). I think we all know it isn't dead, but it needs a jolt of energy again to get the damn heart pumping.

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Sorry, I didn't find his arguments about matchmaking convincing in the least. Really, his rant on matchmaking was a mixture of speculation and paranoia with very few facts or even common sense statements. For instance:

Skill based matchmaking changes the search parameters to find you opponents based solely on a similar skill level to you.

[Citation Needed]. I'd eat my new Apple Logo hat if things like connection quality aren't always a factor. Not enough of a factor? Possibly. But a good chunk of his rant is centered around skill being the only factor which I highly doubt is the case.

...where everyone you face is as good or better than you.

Again, that makes little sense. It seems impossible that you, personally, are the one person who is the worst on every team in every game.

...that also means if you plan with someone who is not on your level you will have a miserable time and can forget about winning matches.

Does no one else ever play with people who aren't quite as good as them? Again, will every single person on the enemy team be better than every person on your team. Realistically, the answer is no.

Yes, Bungie needs to start talking about future plans. Vague assurances that maybe something kinda big will come this quarter aren't enough. And, yes, if they really said there were no matchmaking changes when there were then yeah, they shouldn't do that and they should absolutely be called out for misleading people.

All in all, I was unimpressed and felt I wasted my time watching the video...

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The PVP rant is all baseless crying. Skill was never the only factor, and you could take players much worse then you through and still have fun. Heck, I played games last IB with a guy with 220 light. He couldn't even hurt people, yet we still had about a 33% win rate.

I played COD from time to time recently, and we get bad lag and teams far beyond our skill level all the time. For all the ranting I don't see any improvement from COD's supposed prioritizing connections. COD also drops you in losing games, and punishes poor players who suddenly have killstreaks dropping on them for the last half of a match.

At least Destiny you only have to worry about supers and heavy.

Heck, I still can't get a team to beat oryx reliably. by this time Atheon and Crota were on farm status, but Oryx is still a pain in the butt on hard.

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On the one hand, I'm getting pretty tired of hearing streamers complain that this game doesn't have enough content for them. They're the ones who chose to make playing Destiny into a full-time job. Not to mention the fact that Destiny has boatloads of content. Maybe if more streamers found new and creative ways to work the older content into their broadcasts, they wouldn't burn out on the new stuff so quickly. "But then we wouldn't get end-game drops!". Boohoo. It's a game. Have fun with it or don't. I'm not saying TripleWRECK and others don't have valid criticisms at times. As Kermit pointed out, it's just that the hyperbole gets way out of control.

Buuuuuuut....

All that said, I do feel like Bungie has some issues they should probably sort out. There seems to be a level of miscommunication between Bungie and the community that I don't think was present until the past year or two. Bungie also seems to be suffering from a lack of agility when it comes to making changes or addressing problems with the game. Star Wars Battlefront just got custom games added to their feature set after only 2 months of hearing the community ask for it. I know they are 2 different games from 2 different studios, but it's starting to get silly how long we've gone without hearing even a peep from Bungie on the matter (in any official capacity). It takes months for them to make tweaks to the sandbox, while games like Battlefield and Rainbow 6 get those kinds of adjustments every few weeks (when needed).

I know for a fact that the team at Bungie busts their asses working on this game. I also know the team at Bungie is larger than ever before. So why then does it take so long to react or make changes? So long to create even minimal forms of content conpared to other studios? There very well may be internal issues (Dev tools, communication issues, whatever) but for the sake of this conversation I don't really care what those issues may be, if they exist. I would rather look at the game itself: where exactly does all of Bungie's time go? Is Destiny really that much bigger than Halo Reach? In some ways, it clearly is. And yet the player base at large feels like we have less to do in the long run. How does this happen?

Back in the Halo 3 days, Frank and Luke had a Bungie producer on the podcast (I think it was Pete Parsons, but don't quote me on that). The producer brought up the phrase "consentrated coolness" as the benchmark that Bungie used to judge the game they were making. The idea being that every minute of developer time is precious, so that time better be spent making something that will make the game substantially better or more fun. You can't include every feature, so pick the ones that you'll get the most mileage out of.

This idea, "consentrated coolness", is what I believe is lacking from Destiny as it stands now.

Don't get me wrong; I think Destiny has lots of incredible stuff in it. The art is spectacular. The shooting is best in class. The raids are the most fun Co-op experiences I've ever had, and Trials is the best competitive experience I've had. But when I step back and look at Destiny as a whole, I start to wonder how much of the game really needs to be there. Or if it is living up to its potential.

Do we really need so many guns and so much armor? Or more to the point, how is it that in a game with hundreds of guns, there isn't a single primary weapon that really feels right to me in PvP (compare this to games like Titanfall or Halo, where one of the very first weapons you touch feels PERFECT right out of the gate). How can a game have so many unique pieces of armor, yet I can't make my guardian look the way I want them to look?

How about the environments? The first time I jumped into the Alpha, I spent hours exploring every inch of old Russia. My imagination ran wild as I traveled across the landscape, seeing other Guardians along the way. "What secrets will I uncover here?" None, it turns out. "What will I learn about the history of this place?". Not much, so far. "What kinds of experiences will I have with other Guardians out here in the wild?". Turns out I saw just about everything Patrol has to offer, even now, back in the Alpha.

Where am I going with all this?

On the subject of "is Bungie killing Destiny?", my answer is: Of course not. Destiny is not dying. But I do think it is suffering from some long term health issues. A lot of streamers out there are saying things like "all we need is a roadmap" or "all we need is a little bit of new content". In my opinion, these solutions are as short sighted as the question in discussion. A roadmap doesn't give us stuff to do now. A little bit of new content will placate those who are complaining for a week or two, then we're right back here again. What Destiny needs, I think, is more "consentrated coolness". IMO, Bungie needs to figure out how to really capitalize on the parts of Destiny that are so unique and awesome without shooting themselves in the foot as they have done so many times over the past year. I'm talking about things like adding all this new armor into the game, but making it such a pain to level it up that nobody bothers. Or creating a brilliant, seamless co-op open-world/patrol system, but fail to add to it or expand upon it in any meaningful way since launch. These are the kinds of things that make a real difference in the long run.

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Just to add to the second part of your post, the Grimiore show us the promise of Destiny. I'm still hoping it can live up to that promise.

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Just to add to the second part of your post, the Grimiore show us the promise of Destiny. I'm still hoping it can live up to that promise.

Story-wise? Gameplay-wise?

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Just to add to the second part of your post, the Grimiore show us the promise of Destiny. I'm still hoping it can live up to that promise.

Story-wise? Gameplay-wise?

The story in the Grimoire is brilliant. It's got depth, character, charm, even some humor. It shows a living, breathing, fascinating galaxy full of mystery and promise. The game itself doesn't deliver any of that until you get to the TTK cutscenes, where character and humor start to show up. The game needs to live up to the promise of the Grimoire (and, for the love of God, the game should include the grimoire instead it only being available on an external website. It's like the game doesn't even know the backstory to itself).

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Story-wise. The Grimoire cards are brilliant. You should be proud.

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...My imagination ran wild as I traveled across the landscape, seeing other Guardians along the way. "What secrets will I uncover here?" None, it turns out...

I spent a lot of time exploring, expecting that I would uncover something really cool. After a while I became accustomed to the environment and just "knew" where the kill zones would be and that exploring wasn't going to turn up anything beyond some cool views.

"If you can see it, you can go there". That's not even close to true. My expectations had to be readjusted within the first hour or so of gameplay.

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Didn't they fix this a bit with the hive ship? I thought they did a fantastic job of creating interesting things to discover as you explored. My assumption is that this is how bungie is intending to build in this direction.

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Didn't they fix this a bit with the hive ship? I thought they did a fantastic job of creating interesting things to discover as you explored. My assumption is that this is how bungie is intending to build in this direction.

I thought the Dreadnought was certainly a step in the right direction. My only real problem with the way they designed the new patrol space was that it is too much of a closed ecosystem. Luke Smith described the idea of creating an "inscrutable loot-filled fortress"... I think they kind of got close to that, but missed the mark when it comes to the "loot-filled" part. There are chests everywhere, several of which are guarded by some kind of puzzle element (which is very cool, IMO). The problem is that the only stuff you ever get out of those chests are materials/currencies to use elsewhere in the dreadnought. You open a chest and find a key to open another chest which gives you a skyburners deployment key which gets you another key for a chest which gives you a rune for Court of Oryx which gets you more runes and maybe another key...

It's great for the first week or so when you're still seeing everything for the first time, but it wears thin more quickly than patrolling the other spaces, IMO. Still, I think the Dreadnought is a good example of some of the untapped potential of Destiny's patrol spaces. I'm looking forward to seeing what Bungie does with the next new space(s) we get to explore :)

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It's great for the first week or so when you're still seeing everything for the first time, but it wears thin more quickly than patrolling the other spaces, IMO. Still, I think the Dreadnought is a good example of some of the untapped potential of Destiny's patrol spaces. I'm looking forward to seeing what Bungie does with the next new space(s) we get to explore :)

That's it, exactly.

Also, the Dreadnaught is neat, but damn it's ugly. It's just not a space I find myself wanting to be. It fits and works very well thematically (it's claustrophobic and creepy), but I don't like being there. I'd much rather patrol Old Russia or Venus, or heck, even Mars. They're just much nicer places to be.

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I agree and it is all very same-y. those chests all look the same and are distinguished by text that appears on screen, mostly. At least for me. I would like visually distinct areas.

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It's great for the first week or so when you're still seeing everything for the first time, but it wears thin more quickly than patrolling the other spaces, IMO. Still, I think the Dreadnought is a good example of some of the untapped potential of Destiny's patrol spaces. I'm looking forward to seeing what Bungie does with the next new space(s) we get to explore :)

That's it, exactly.

Also, the Dreadnaught is neat, but damn it's ugly. It's just not a space I find myself wanting to be. It fits and works very well thematically (it's claustrophobic and creepy), but I don't like being there. I'd much rather patrol Old Russia or Venus, or heck, even Mars. They're just much nicer places to be.

I feel exactly the same way. I've never been a huge fan of the Hive-themed environments (I think they're well designed, but as you said they're not places I'd ever want to spend time in). I rarely go to the moon for the same reason.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder how much the lack of Sparrows plays into this. There's something so pure and joyful about hoping on your speeder and gliding through these beautiful and mysterious spaces. The Dreadnought lacks this, as does half of the moon's patrol space. Huh.

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It's great for the first week or so when you're still seeing everything for the first time, but it wears thin more quickly than patrolling the other spaces, IMO. Still, I think the Dreadnought is a good example of some of the untapped potential of Destiny's patrol spaces. I'm looking forward to seeing what Bungie does with the next new space(s) we get to explore :)

That's it, exactly.

Also, the Dreadnaught is neat, but damn it's ugly. It's just not a space I find myself wanting to be. It fits and works very well thematically (it's claustrophobic and creepy), but I don't like being there. I'd much rather patrol Old Russia or Venus, or heck, even Mars. They're just much nicer places to be.

I feel exactly the same way. I've never been a huge fan of the Hive-themed environments (I think they're well designed, but as you said they're not places I'd ever want to spend time in). I rarely go to the moon for the same reason

See it's weird, because I like the Moon, Hellmouth included. I think the Hive stuff on the moon is a lot more aesthetically pleasing than the Dreadnaught. It's still creepy and claustrophobic, but I really enjoyed those areas. Maybe i just don't enjoy the sickly green color of the Dreadnaught? I don't know.

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On the one hand, I'm getting pretty tired of hearing streamers complain that this game doesn't have enough content for them. They're the ones who chose to make playing Destiny into a full-time job.

While I agree with this I also see where Triple is coming from. I love Destiny. But I play FAR less than him, and I am already bored. (Maybe if I was getting donations I would play more?)

As far as the roadmap, it kind of gives me some incentive I guess? If I know that all year the only updates I will see are these little holiday events, I could happily quit playing after beating the hard mode raid. Personally, I don't want to "grind" for a year only to have another release just reset my progress. Having that roadmap, for me, could tell me if its worth the investment of time to keep playing. This just goes back to playing games for fun, which I have re-learned to do. Destiny really sucked me in, and became a chore. Albeit a fun chore.

I probably should have shared my thoughts to clear up how I felt. I really just shared since I know some people enjoy tripleWRECK's stream, myself included. Alot of the streamers are SUPER whiny/ over the top. His is rather laid back, good conversations, and you get to see some quality PVP.

On a side note, I will be playing this weekend. Trials anyone? =]

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On the one hand, I'm getting pretty tired of hearing streamers complain that this game doesn't have enough content for them. They're the ones who chose to make playing Destiny into a full-time job.

While I agree with this I also see where Triple is coming from. I love Destiny. But I play FAR less than him, and I am already bored. (Maybe if I was getting donations I would play more?)

I would say that it is ok to be bored after all this time. You and I have sunk hundreds of hours into this game... TripleWreck is probably in the thousands. Most games I play can't hold my attention for 2 hours.

The difference is that you or I can put the game down and pick it back up when we have the craving to play it again. TripleWRECK and other streamers have put themselves into a situation where they feel they need to keep playing Destiny every single, because it is their job. Of course they're getting bored of it. Did they not see this coming? Did they really think they could play for 10 or 12 hours every single day and Bungie would keep it new and fresh for them the entire time? What other game in the history of videogames could possibly stay fresh through so many back-to-back hours?

As far as the roadmap, it kind of gives me some incentive I guess? If I know that all year the only updates I will see are these little holiday events, I could happily quit playing after beating the hard mode raid. Personally, I don't want to "grind" for a year only to have another release just reset my progress. Having that roadmap, for me, could tell me if its worth the investment of time to keep playing. This just goes back to playing games for fun, which I have re-learned to do. Destiny really sucked me in, and became a chore. Albeit a fun chore.

Not arguing with how you feel about it at all, just for me a road map doesn't influence the fun I'm having or not having right now. I figure every new update will make a certain amount of old gear obsolete. That's the nature of this kind of RPG progression. I'm at the point in year 2 where there really isn't any gear I'm chasing, aside from a few more pieces of Iron Banner gear. There's nothing like the year 1 raid or Trials weapons that I really love using and want to collect. So I just play with what I have (which is admittedly a pretty large collection), doing the activities I find fun. When new content finally does come along, I'll shard most of my year 2 gear without much thought.

I probably should have shared my thoughts to clear up how I felt. I really just shared since I know some people enjoy tripleWRECK's stream, myself included. Alot of the streamers are SUPER whiny/ over the top. His is rather laid back, good conversations, and you get to see some quality PVP.

On a side note, I will be playing this weekend. Trials anyone? =]

Oh, you know I'm in :)

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The difference is that you or I can put the game down and pick it back up when we have the craving to play it again. TripleWRECK and other streamers have put themselves into a situation where they feel they need to keep playing Destiny every single, because it is their job. Of course they're getting bored of it. Did they not see this coming? Did they really think they could play for 10 or 12 hours every single day and Bungie would keep it new and fresh for them the entire time? What other game in the history of videogames could possibly stay fresh through so many back-to-back hours?

So very much this.

If I were playing destiny 10-12 hours a day (heck, even 8 hours a day) I'd probably be bored sick of it. Playing on Tuesday & Thursday nights each week is a good amount. It leaves me wanting more come Sunday/Monday night (addiction maybe? hmm). The number of quests available are great too, I still have lots to work on with my primary character, who happens to be at light 316/317, which I feel is plenty high, and I'm probably done with attempting to get much higher light with him, but I still have the quests that I can work on for fun.

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I would say that it is ok to be bored after all this time. You and I have sunk hundreds of hours into this game... TripleWreck is probably in the thousands. Most games I play can't hold my attention for 2 hours.

According to DestinyStatus, tripleWRECK has 2871 total hours played, with 1906 of them active (not tower/orbit).

You've got 1958 total, 1261 active. (Plus a few more on the Xbox One)

Cody's at 1366 total, 1033 active.

I'm always surprised by these numbers when I look at them for a player; they're ALWAYS higher than I expect them to be. :)

(For comparison, I'm 1827 total, 1266 active.)

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I would say that it is ok to be bored after all this time. You and I have sunk hundreds of hours into this game... TripleWreck is probably in the thousands. Most games I play can't hold my attention for 2 hours.

According to DestinyStatus, tripleWRECK has 2871 total hours played, with 1906 of them active (not tower/orbit).

You've got 1958 total, 1261 active. (Plus a few more on the Xbox One)

Cody's at 1366 total, 1033 active.

I'm always surprised by these numbers when I look at them for a player; they're ALWAYS higher than I expect them to be. :)

(For comparison, I'm 1827 total, 1266 active.)

O_o

Just for my own sanity, I'm not going to think about all the things I could have done/accomplished in ~1500 hours ;)

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O_o

Just for my own sanity, I'm not going to think about all the things I could have done/accomplished in ~1500 hours ;)

You could have learned French, gotten a hot body in the gym, and scored a Ménage à trois. With time to spare!

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He's Canadian. they are required by law to already speak French.

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Just for my own sanity, I'm not going to think about all the things I could have done/accomplished in ~1500 hours ;)

A few months ago i accidentally found some web site that showed my /played in Everquest. I…didn't need to see that.

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You've got 1958 total, 1261 active. (Plus a few more on the Xbox One)

Cody's at 1366 total, 1033 active.

I'm always surprised by these numbers when I look at them for a player; they're ALWAYS higher than I expect them to be. :)

(For comparison, I'm 1827 total, 1266 active.)

That's 47 days of my life o_0

But I really want to know how on earth you not only have more playtime than me, but more playtime than Cruel, who I thought was the biggest Destiny addict on here.

You don't even have a real house to play it in yet! :-p

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I'm showing 1487 hours active according to http://wastedondestiny.com

That's pretty insane.... and to think that I have a full-time job and girlfriend. Good thing she likes to go to bed early I guess lol.

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I would like to thank you guys for making me feel better about myself.

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I would like to thank you guys for making me feel better about myself.

The site that Unoudid linked doesn't count the hours that you've spent in the tower, which adds an extra 30% of time or so...

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I have a Girlfriend too. Her name is Destiny.

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I would say that it is ok to be bored after all this time. You and I have sunk hundreds of hours into this game... TripleWreck is probably in the thousands. Most games I play can't hold my attention for 2 hours.

According to DestinyStatus, tripleWRECK has 2871 total hours played, with 1906 of them active (not tower/orbit).

You've got 1958 total, 1261 active. (Plus a few more on the Xbox One)

Cody's at 1366 total, 1033 active.

I'm always surprised by these numbers when I look at them for a player; they're ALWAYS higher than I expect them to be. :)

(For comparison, I'm 1827 total, 1266 active.)

2123 hours across Playstation and Xbox (Over half of that is on my Playstation Warlock alone), 1374 active.

And that's not even counting the hours that I put into Sammy's account back when I had all of the Exotics and gear on my own account (the months before HoW).

And I'm still having fun and have things to do (Like I said the other night, I only have a single leveled Legendary Sword, and my Xbox Titan was still a 34 until this past Friday). Cruel and I have yet to run our Refer-a-friend missions, I need to run Skolas on PS4 for the shader, I need to get to the Lighthouse on Xbox for the Year 2 emblem... I could go on. Heck, I barely completed the Crucible questline on PS4.

People who burn through content just to check off a list, or just to chase a specific item make me shake my head. And then they whine constantly and loudly about how little there is for them to do 1000+ hours into a game. Remember when RPGs were 80+ hours long and we thought that was too much time to spend on one game?

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... I need to get to the Lighthouse on Xbox for the Year 2 emblem...

Off topic, but I'm a bit of a completionist and I've done a little digging into this. There are actually two emblems to be earned via the Lighthouse (above and beyond the 5 emblems that can drop along the way).

One for reaching the Lighthouse with a flawless card in year two ("Hic Jacet"):
[image]

Another that's a random drop for continued wins on a card with 9 wins ("Scarab Heart"):
[image]

I know because these are probably the two emblems I'm never going to earn. Well, those plus the two that never seem to drop for me from the Cryptarch.

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People who burn through content just to check off a list, or just to chase a specific item make me shake my head. And then they whine constantly and loudly about how little there is for them to do 1000+ hours into a game. Remember when RPGs were 80+ hours long and we thought that was too much time to spend on one game?

Amen.

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People who burn through content just to check off a list, or just to chase a specific item make me shake my head. And then they whine constantly and loudly about how little there is for them to do 1000+ hours into a game. Remember when RPGs were 80+ hours long and we thought that was too much time to spend on one game?

How many times do I have to explain this? RPGs are not meant to have players playing constantly, and doing the same shit over and over again. You can actually beat an RPG and finish the story. Destiny is not like that. Bungie designed it with no end.

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People who burn through content just to check off a list, or just to chase a specific item make me shake my head. And then they whine constantly and loudly about how little there is for them to do 1000+ hours into a game. Remember when RPGs were 80+ hours long and we thought that was too much time to spend on one game?

How many times do I have to explain this? RPGs are not meant to have players playing constantly, and doing the same shit over and over again. You can actually beat an RPG and finish the story. Destiny is not like that. Bungie designed it with no end.

RPGs all have an element that keeps the players playing, from finding all 101 Dalmatians to filling out every perk in your SPECIAL tree. That's stuff to get players to play longer than it would take them to simply beat the story.

Find an RPG that lets you burn through story stuff without a single wall to keep you from blazing through it. Find one. Besides that, I distinctly recall beating the story to Destiny. I also recall beating the story to The Taken King, so you're wrong on all counts. Destiny at least lets you unlock all of your perks fairly quickly, while some other RPGs have even killed off characters that you spent a lot of time leveling halfway through the game...

For someone who doesn't play a whole lot of games (RPGs especially), you sure seem to think that you know them better than those who have sunk countless hours into them.

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After finishing the story did Destiny end? Nope. But with RPGs you get an end. The game stops. THE END. You don't continue on after that point. There are exceptions sure, but those are the games that are bad.

There are tons of RPGs which you can breeze through and never have to grind or level. Deus Ex, FF8, are two examples off the top of my head.

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After finishing the story did Destiny end? Nope. But with RPGs you get an end. The game stops. THE END. You don't continue on after that point. There are exceptions sure, but those are the games that are bad.

There are tons of RPGs which you can breeze through and never have to grind or level. Deus Ex, FF8, are two examples off the top of my head.

Any examples you can think of that are less than 15 years old?

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After finishing the story did Destiny end? Nope. But with RPGs you get an end. The game stops. THE END. You don't continue on after that point. There are exceptions sure, but those are the games that are bad.

There are tons of RPGs which you can breeze through and never have to grind or level. Deus Ex, FF8, are two examples off the top of my head.

Any examples you can think of that are less than 15 years old?

Why do you think I always complain about modern games? :-p

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After finishing the story did Destiny end? Nope. But with RPGs you get an end. The game stops. THE END. You don't continue on after that point. There are exceptions sure, but those are the games that are bad.

There are tons of RPGs which you can breeze through and never have to grind or level. Deus Ex, FF8, are two examples off the top of my head.

Any examples you can think of that are less than 15 years old?

Why do you think I always complain about modern games? :-p

This reminds me of a very bad, very off-color, entirely racist joke I heard once, and that I will by no means repeat here (or anywhere else, for that matter) about why God invented orgasms.

It seems you need a strong signal to tell you to stop playing.

I'm not sure what that means, but it's interesting.

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After finishing the story did Destiny end? Nope. But with RPGs you get an end. The game stops. THE END. You don't continue on after that point. There are exceptions sure, but those are the games that are bad.

There are tons of RPGs which you can breeze through and never have to grind or level. Deus Ex, FF8, are two examples off the top of my head.

Any examples you can think of that are less than 15 years old?

Why do you think I always complain about modern games? :-p

This reminds me of a very bad, very off-color, entirely racist joke I heard once, and that I will by no means repeat here (or anywhere else, for that matter) about why God invented orgasms.

It seems you need a strong signal to tell you to stop playing.

I'm not sure what that means, but it's interesting.

That's untrue. You will notice I spent a ton of time with the Halo games after initially beating them. I don't need to be told when to stop. That is completely different than the game having an ending. Please note I enjoyed games like Sim City 2000 which do NOT have an end.

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Eh. Sim City 2000 most certainly had an ending. After a while all the powerlines mysteriously break, all the water stops flowing, all the Sims move out and you spiral into loan fueled bankruptcy... Or was that just me? :p

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Eh. Sim City 2000 most certainly had an ending. After a while all the powerlines mysteriously break, all the water stops flowing, all the Sims move out and you spiral into loan fueled bankruptcy... Or was that just me? :p

It was just you.

All my Arcologies would blast off into space to find new worlds, leaving behind bare land on which to build another city…

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Eh. Sim City 2000 most certainly had an ending. After a while all the powerlines mysteriously break, all the water stops flowing, all the Sims move out and you spiral into loan fueled bankruptcy... Or was that just me? :p

It was just you.

All my Arcologies would blast off into space to find new worlds, leaving behind bare land with which to build another city…

After I was satisfied with my city, I just loaded up "Streets of Simcity" and demolished the buildings one by one via a lengthy vehicular combat sequence.

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Eh. Sim City 2000 most certainly had an ending. After a while all the powerlines mysteriously break, all the water stops flowing, all the Sims move out and you spiral into loan fueled bankruptcy... Or was that just me? :p

It was just you.

All my Arcologies would blast off into space to find new worlds, leaving behind bare land with which to build another city…

After I was satisfied with my city, I just loaded up "Streets of Simcity" and demolished the buildings one by one via a lengthy vehicular combat sequence.

I think my favorite was when I made a city that was a low density paradise on a series of islands, all connected via subway. The city had no roads at all. I realized I was funding roads needlessly, since there weren't any. So I cut it to zero. The transportation guy freaked out, and was outraged. Soon there were riots all over the city.

Because I defunded roads that weren't there.

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Eh. Sim City 2000 most certainly had an ending. After a while all the powerlines mysteriously break, all the water stops flowing, all the Sims move out and you spiral into loan fueled bankruptcy... Or was that just me? :p

It was just you.

All my Arcologies would blast off into space to find new worlds, leaving behind bare land with which to build another city…

After I was satisfied with my city, I just loaded up "Streets of Simcity" and demolished the buildings one by one via a lengthy vehicular combat sequence.

I think my favorite was when I made a city that was a low density paradise on a series of islands, all connected via subway. The city had no roads at all. I realized I was funding roads needlessly, since there weren't any. So I cut it to zero. The transportation guy freaked out, and was outraged. Soon there were riots all over the city.

Because I defunded roads that weren't there.

Did the game not charge you for road maintenance on a per-road-tile basis?

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Eh. Sim City 2000 most certainly had an ending. After a while all the powerlines mysteriously break, all the water stops flowing, all the Sims move out and you spiral into loan fueled bankruptcy... Or was that just me? :p

It was just you.

All my Arcologies would blast off into space to find new worlds, leaving behind bare land with which to build another city…

After I was satisfied with my city, I just loaded up "Streets of Simcity" and demolished the buildings one by one via a lengthy vehicular combat sequence.

I think my favorite was when I made a city that was a low density paradise on a series of islands, all connected via subway. The city had no roads at all. I realized I was funding roads needlessly, since there weren't any. So I cut it to zero. The transportation guy freaked out, and was outraged. Soon there were riots all over the city.

Because I defunded roads that weren't there.

Did the game not charge you for road maintenance on a per-road-tile basis?

I'm trying to remember but I think you'd set taxes which went to pay for things, and then set what proportion goes to which services. So if crime was high and you didn't want to raise taxes, you could put more into police at the expense of the fire department for example. So you could set it to zero for roads, enabling you to lower taxes and still get the same amount of income.

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Eh. Sim City 2000 most certainly had an ending. After a while all the powerlines mysteriously break, all the water stops flowing, all the Sims move out and you spiral into loan fueled bankruptcy... Or was that just me? :p

I freaking adore that game. Still have it, too. Also, yeah, that was totally just you! Btw, can I just say how lovely it was to have the little newspaper articles pop up about an Ugly Shark or other random things that happened in the city?

I also thoroughly enjoyed using cheat codes to make military bases that pretty much never appeared as anything but dark green tiles, but in my head it made my city safer from doom. I definitely appreciated getting to actually see the military bases in Sim City 3000.

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Eh. Sim City 2000 most certainly had an ending. After a while all the powerlines mysteriously break, all the water stops flowing, all the Sims move out and you spiral into loan fueled bankruptcy... Or was that just me? :p

I freaking adore that game. Still have it, too. Also, yeah, that was totally just you! Btw, can I just say how lovely it was to have the little newspaper articles pop up about an Ugly Shark or other random things that happened in the city?

I also thoroughly enjoyed using cheat codes to make military bases that pretty much never appeared as anything but dark green tiles, but in my head it made my city safer from doom. I definitely appreciated getting to actually see the military bases in Sim City 3000.

You could deploy the military to fight floods and fires and stuff, but the coolest thing was that if you let them build a nuke on the base in your city and the alien monster attacked, they would shoot it out of the sky!

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This game sounds way more fun than I ever imagined it would be.

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This game sounds way more fun than I ever imagined it would be.

Keep in mind the simulation is pretty crude in Sim City 2000 (it ran on DOS originally), at least in the sense that when you figure it out is it easy to exploit. I hear that Cities Skylines is what the new Sim City should have been. I've been thinking about getting it, but have no idea if it has all the little touches that made Sim City 2000 great.

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Wow. I have nearly 100 hours on Xbox. I never would have guessed that high.

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According to DestinyStatus, tripleWRECK has 2871 total hours played, with 1906 of them active (not tower/orbit).
You've got 1958 total, 1261 active. (Plus a few more on the Xbox One)
Cody's at 1366 total, 1033 active.
(For comparison, I'm 1827 total, 1266 active.)

http://wastedondestiny.com/playstation/dogcowmoof

Slycrel is at 1039 hours, 21st percentile.

I'm right at 600 hours. I'm in the 49th percentile. This makes me feel good about myself and my life choices. Thanks guys! ;-)

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On a side note, I will be playing this weekend. Trials anyone? =]

Ready to play on Xbox yet? Korny was saying you were thinking about playing last weekend.

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Yes,

I dont have The Last Word on xbox, maybe he will sell it soon. but I have a really good sniper rifle so i can still do well. I also bought the multitool so im not too bad off, depending on the map

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TripleWRECK on Destiny's Current State (Destiny)

With titles like that, I know the answer is "no."

There's a name for that...

Except...

FUNKMON DISAGREES WITH PROBABLYLAST?!?!?!?!