I was thinking of PvP mechanics this morning and ran into something that didn't make sense to me. Headshots and shields. Shields are this invisible something that protects you all over right? So why do crits still happen when your shields are up?

What if headshots acted like body shots until your shield was gone? Basically the first half of your health. How would this change PvP?

I think TTK overall would go up a little.

I think hardcore players would call this unfair.

I think PvP would be more approachable for beginners.

I think this would drastically change what preferred weapons are, and in particular, encourage more short range combat. (Which would promote more shotguns. Hrm.)

I can't decide if I think this is a really good idea or a really bad idea. But I was struck this morning by how assumed headshots are for PvP in general nowadays. I think the dynamic would certainly change, I know how I approach just about everything related to targetting in PvP would change.

Thoughts?

I was thinking of PvP mechanics this morning and ran into something that didn't make sense to me. Headshots and shields. Shields are this invisible something that protects you all over right? So why do crits still happen when your shields are up?

What if headshots acted like body shots until your shield was gone? Basically the first half of your health. How would this change PvP?

I think TTK overall would go up a little.

I think hardcore players would call this unfair.

I think PvP would be more approachable for beginners.

I think this would drastically change what preferred weapons are, and in particular, encourage more short range combat. (Which would promote more shotguns. Hrm.)

I can't decide if I think this is a really good idea or a really bad idea. But I was struck this morning by how assumed headshots are for PvP in general nowadays. I think the dynamic would certainly change, I know how I approach just about everything related to targetting in PvP would change.

Thoughts?

My memory is getting foggy, but I'm pretty sure that is exactly how Halo's health/shield mechanics work (or at least how the used to work).

I was thinking of PvP mechanics this morning and ran into something that didn't make sense to me. Headshots and shields. Shields are this invisible something that protects you all over right? So why do crits still happen when your shields are up?

What if headshots acted like body shots until your shield was gone? Basically the first half of your health. How would this change PvP?

I think TTK overall would go up a little.

I think hardcore players would call this unfair.

I think PvP would be more approachable for beginners.

I think this would drastically change what preferred weapons are, and in particular, encourage more short range combat. (Which would promote more shotguns. Hrm.)

I can't decide if I think this is a really good idea or a really bad idea. But I was struck this morning by how assumed headshots are for PvP in general nowadays. I think the dynamic would certainly change, I know how I approach just about everything related to targetting in PvP would change.

Thoughts?

My memory is getting foggy, but I'm pretty sure that is exactly how Halo's health/shield mechanics work (or at least how the used to work).

In Halo, once a player got a headshot (with a headshot capable weapon) on an enemy while that enemy's shields were down, that enemy was dead. all shots against shields counted as body shots, unless the amount of damage inflicted was greater than the shields's strength. See: Sniper Rifles.

That was how it worked.

I was thinking of PvP mechanics this morning and ran into something that didn't make sense to me. Headshots and shields. Shields are this invisible something that protects you all over right? So why do crits still happen when your shields are up?

What if headshots acted like body shots until your shield was gone? Basically the first half of your health. How would this change PvP?

It would dramatically increase the effectiveness of weapons with low crit modifiers like Auto Rifles, and pretty severely punish things like Scout Rifles. Not a good idea without completely reworking weapon damage and design philosophy from the ground up.

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I've been thinking about this sort of thing too...

What if Bungie reduced all PVP damage by 50%?

I've been thinking about this sort of thing too...

What if Bungie reduced all PVP damage by 50%?

I think some tweaks might need to be made to 1HK weapons/supers, but I'd love to try that.

I've been thinking about this sort of thing too...

What if Bungie reduced all PVP damage by 50%?

The problem with PvP is OHK weapons, not the other weapons. There is enough time, if you're using cover, to get back behind cover and avoid dying whenever you're faced with any weapon that is not a OHK. increasing that time would mean team-shooting would be much more important than it already is, but kills would also be more elusive. Armor would be far less important than recovery. 1v1 fights would become much more cat and mouse, usually decided by an extra player showing up to end it. 1v2 and 1v3 situations would become impossible to manage.

My issue is that OHKs are too prevalent and the TTK of other weapons is too slow to be any sort of counter. Snipers are particularly nasty since they're a OHK at any range. Personally I think snipers should not be able to quick scope at all. The weapon should require foresight and thought rather than fast twitch muscles. It's a OHK at any range, so adjusting it to be less usable as a reflex would make it less useful in an up close firefight. I also think all shotguns should work like the Chaperone: OHK to the head, 2 shots to the body.

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I've been thinking about this sort of thing too...

What if Bungie reduced all PVP damage by 50%?

I think some tweaks might need to be made to 1HK weapons/supers, but I'd love to try that.

With Custom games it'd be a cinch.

The problem with PvP is OHK weapons, not the other weapons. There is enough time, if you're using cover, to get back behind cover and avoid dying whenever you're faced with any weapon that is not a OHK.

I keep thinking about this -- MANY weapons are one hit kills if you take your target from behind -- the player doesn't have enough time to get out of the way before they are dead. Maybe this is intended. I find myself often getting killed before I can either take cover or return any meaningful fire on the target in PvP in general. Usually because you never know where people are going to spawn.

It's possible I am just not great at PvP... But this is the biggest blocker for me in PvP. By the time I see half of the players I'm mostly dead. Destiny PvP has me looking at the motion tracker and guessing where people are as often as I'm seeing someone and then shooting. This seems odd to me, and I wonder if a higher TTK would help solve some of this.

I'm sure it would have it's own problems though too.

This is how Halos post-Halo 1 work. Personally, I love the speed of Destiny as is (and do Guardians even have shields anyway?). It's part of the reason why I've basically switched to Destiny for my PvP. The decade-long slowdown of Halo finally got too frustrating. Destiny reminds me of Halo 1, but if Bungie took it in a totally different direction. Hopefully they don't repeat the slowdown thing, although it's already kind of trending in that direction.

This is how Halos post-Halo 1 work. Personally, I love the speed of Destiny as is (and do Guardians even have shields anyway?). It's part of the reason why I've basically switched to Destiny for my PvP. The decade-long slowdown of Halo finally got too frustrating. Destiny reminds me of Halo 1, but if Bungie took it in a totally different direction. Hopefully they don't repeat the slowdown thing, although it's already kind of trending in that direction.

If you don't enjoy that, why don't you prefer one of the many other PvP games where the TTK is much shorter? Also outside of the H1 pistol, Halo 1's TTK wasn't that short...

The problem with PvP is OHK weapons, not the other weapons. There is enough time, if you're using cover, to get back behind cover and avoid dying whenever you're faced with any weapon that is not a OHK.

I keep thinking about this -- MANY weapons are one hit kills if you take your target from behind -- the player doesn't have enough time to get out of the way before they are dead. Maybe this is intended. I find myself often getting killed before I can either take cover or return any meaningful fire on the target in PvP in general. Usually because you never know where people are going to spawn.

It's possible I am just not great at PvP... But this is the biggest blocker for me in PvP. By the time I see half of the players I'm mostly dead. Destiny PvP has me looking at the motion tracker and guessing where people are as often as I'm seeing someone and then shooting. This seems odd to me, and I wonder if a higher TTK would help solve some of this.

I'm sure it would have it's own problems though too.

I watch my motion tracker a lot too. A big part of it is really being aware of where your teammates are. There's no enemies in those areas or your teammates would be dead, and they'll shoot at people they see which helps you know where those guys are, too. As for dodging incoming fire, this is why things like shadestep and blink remain very powerful - they help you escape.

When Reach first came out that's pretty much exactly how it worked. I would always focus on just doing any damage I could to an enemy until their shields dropped, then switch to focusing on the headshot for the quick kill. I really enjoyed that system and was really sad when 343 took over and changed it.

I don't think guardians have shields technically. Shields are represented in game by a colored halo around an enemy. Guardians don't have that. Instead we have regenerating health which is arguably better than shields.

There's the white bar above a players name/health bar that has to drop before they start taking damage. I always thought that was a shield? And then you have the overshield you can get also.

Exposure: Guardian shields are increased but do not replenish.

not to mention "overshields" are clearly a thing as well.

For better or worse, using radar to predict where someone is and working out a way to engage them as soon as they come into your line of fire is largely what Destiny's PVP is...

My advice would be:

1. Stick with a Scout Rifle for a while. Preferably a MIDA Multi-Tool. Having the radar on while zoomed in will help you get a better feel for how the radar can show you the distance and location of your enemies at all times. The longer range will help keep you out of people's shotgun range. And the need to land headshots will help with your aim... mainly because MIDA won't hardly kill anyone if you don't line up your headshots...

2. Work on getting out of harm's way the first moment you take a hit you are unable to respond to. Don't worry about turning around. Don't worry about killing. Don't worry about helping your team. I'm pretty good at the Crucible but I still have to stop myself and remind myself to break off unfavorable engagements. I play significantly better when I prioritize getting away and reengaging rather than trying to eek out the kill.

Destiny can feel really fast but beyond snipers, shotguns, and rockets you have more time and ability than you might think to toy with or evade an enemy.

In-universe, Guardians use their own Light to defend themselves. Their armors and outfits are designed to help channel that Light but their toughness comes from the Light. There's a set of Warlock robes that are captioned with something like "You may be able to stop bullets with your Light, but you aren't invincible... yet."

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I wonder what the game would be like if guardian had some way to gain an elemental shield like enemies? So in PvP for example you could run into guardians with solar, void, or arc shields and you'd have to counter with the appropriate weapons to take them down quickly? I think Bungie would have to bring back elemental primaries though so you could potentially have one of each elemental damage type. It would probably be a horrible thing in reality, but still.

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Yup. There were some differences from one game to another as far as whether damage bled over or not. Meaning in some games, if your last shot on the shield did more damage than the HP the shield had left, it would carry over to a headshot and get a kill. Whereas in other games, the last shot on the shield would only ever take the shield down regardless of how much extra damage there was, requiring one more headshot to kill. Other than special cases like a sniper headshot.

Not only did that mechanic change from one game to another but I'm pretty sure Reach changed it mid-lifcycle, or it was changed in certain game modes, or something? Maybe it was just for the "anniversary" playlists that came out with CE:A? My memory's a little fuzzy on specifically when and why that changed.

Anyway, regardless of that mechanic it's generally true that headshots didn't do anything special until the shield was down. And once that happened, the special thing they did was kill you immediately.

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I'm pretty sure it changed after 343 took over. They didn't like the way the shields stopped all damage and decided to enable some kind of bleed through.

It's nice.

It's nice.

I've got one with eye of the storm and surrounded, but since shotguns have pretty much the same range it just feels like a fusion rifle can't hold it's own. You get blasted by a shotgun from what feels like sniper rifle range before you've even fully charged up. :(