http://www.polygon.com/2016/2/22/11051686/golem-playstationvr-highwire-games

Not sure if this has been posted here, but it may be of interest to some folks here given all the ex Bungie talent attached.

Pretty interesting read. I'm really intrigued by Golem in general, and their solution for movement specifically. Using actual movement to control movement sounds like it should be obvious, and it sounds like it works pretty well, but it potentially could be really awful too. I'm really interested to see how this plays out.

VR is really exciting in its potential, and PlayStation VR is the only one that's even potentially affordable to me any time soon (given that I don't have a gaming PC). I'm cautiously optimistic, but we'll see.

Highwire, as a small studio, has to get in a really high concept game to make a huge impact, and it looks like they are. A VR game is a great way to do that. They can do an artsy look and it'll still be all right. Also, the audio goes a long way to help immersion, and with Marty there, I wouldn't be surprised if this thing was amazing in that regard, with virtual surround sound through headphones or something.

Also, I'm really interested to see what industry veterans can really do with new tech like this, which is kind of what Polygon was commenting on with the age stuff. I bet it'll be great.

Also, I'm really interested to see what industry veterans can really do with new tech like this, which is kind of what Polygon was commenting on with the age stuff. I bet it'll be great.

That's kind of a larger problem in the industry, is it not? When people grow older and want to actually live life and have families and stuff, they can't because it's crunch time all the time and the games industry is so demanding. So you don't often see older developers, which is why Ben was so shocked even though none of them are particularly old.

Even though I am 30, there are rarely editors younger than me at ACE and Editor's Guild functions. Tom Cross is almost 40, and people still call him "Boy Whiplash" after he won the Oscar last year. That gives you an idea of how experience and age is valued in the film industry.

You would think that there'd be more veterans in the games industry who have been there since the beginning, but that just doesn't seem to be the case… especially give the writer's surprise.

Part of me thinks this is why game stories sucks so much on the whole: you have young people who spend too much time in front of computers and don't know anything about life writing them.

Part of me thinks this is why game stories sucks so much on the whole: you have young people who spend too much time in front of computers and don't know anything about life writing them.

Call of Duty: Ghosts' awful story was written by Stephen Gaghan, 50 year-old Academy Award winner (screenplay/Traffic), while Neil Druckmann was 33 when he wrote the story of The Last of Us, and he started out as an intern at Naughty Dog in 2004.

Food for thought.

- No text -

Call of Duty: Ghosts' awful story was written by Stephen Gaghan, 50 year-old Academy Award winner (screenplay/Traffic), while Neil Druckmann was 33 when he wrote the story of The Last of Us, and he started out as an intern at Naughty Dog in 2004.

Food for thought.

I've thought about it, and I see no point to your post other than to provide two examples which do not in any way illustrate or contradict the notion of my statement. Please refer to the 'on the whole' sentence. I can point to great scripts written by young people and shitty ones written by old people too.

Call of Duty: Ghosts' awful story was written by Stephen Gaghan, 50 year-old Academy Award winner (screenplay/Traffic), while Neil Druckmann was 33 when he wrote the story of The Last of Us, and he started out as an intern at Naughty Dog in 2004.

Food for thought.

I've thought about it, and I see no point to your post other than to provide two examples which do not in any way illustrate or contradict the notion of my statement. Please refer to the 'on the whole' sentence. I can point to great scripts written by young people and shitty ones written by old people too.

The problem is that you seem to think that your statement is inherently true, but you provide zero evidence in favor of it. Have you played every game? Can you measure the ratio of "bad story" to "good story" that ends with a value that can be considered as being "on the whole"?
Have you weighed that ratio against stories written by people sitting in front of computers, young or old, against stories written by people that you know have "experienced life", as those two are apparently mutually exclusive to you?

How do you measure that against the ratio of "good" and "bad" stories in other mediums? Is there a correlation between the age of the writers and the quality of the stories there?

Basically, what point are you trying to make, and what evidence do you have to support that point?

Basically, what point are you trying to make, and what evidence do you have to support that point?

Is this seriously not self evident? Look at the very best of both media. The best of film and television completely blow away the best of games in terms of story and exploration of the human condition. It's not even close.

Basically, what point are you trying to make, and what evidence do you have to support that point?

Is this seriously not self evident? Look at the very best of both media. The best of film and television completely blow away the best of games in terms of story and exploration of the human condition. It's not even close.

No, it's not self-evident. Enlighten me.

Show me the very best of film, television, and games, and convince me that the very best game story is not even close.

Bonus: Show me how the very best of game stories would work better as a movie rather than an interactive experience.

Basically, what point are you trying to make, and what evidence do you have to support that point?

Is this seriously not self evident? Look at the very best of both media. The best of film and television completely blow away the best of games in terms of story and exploration of the human condition. It's not even close.

No, it's not self-evident. Enlighten me.

Show me the very best of film, television, and games, and convince me that the very best game story is not even close.

Bonus: Show me how the very best of game stories would work better as a movie rather than an interactive experience.

Let's start with what you consider the best to be in terms of game story. Tastes are tastes after all. Make a list, and I'll show you how it was done better.

That's kind of a larger problem in the industry, is it not? When people grow older and want to actually live life and have families and stuff, they can't because it's crunch time all the time and the games industry is so demanding. So you don't often see older developers, which is why Ben was so shocked even though none of them are particularly old.

That's definitely an issue of how AAA games are made currently. It seems like it's always push, push, push, and then if you're lucky you still have a job when the game is shipped. I don't have any reason to think so, but it seems like that's got to change in the near future.

We've seen the trend of half-baked, half-finished, broken games being shipped (Street Fighter V being the most recent example), and that can only last for so long before people get wise (in a perfect world anyway; people are dumb and keeping buying this shit, so maybe it'll just continue), and I'm not sure if that's a product of the unstable industry or if it's just exclusively publisher greed.

Basically, what point are you trying to make, and what evidence do you have to support that point?

Is this seriously not self evident? Look at the very best of both media. The best of film and television completely blow away the best of games in terms of story and exploration of the human condition. It's not even close.

No, it's not self-evident. Enlighten me.

Show me the very best of film, television, and games, and convince me that the very best game story is not even close.

Bonus: Show me how the very best of game stories would work better as a movie rather than an interactive experience.

Let's start with what you consider the best to be in terms of game story. Tastes are tastes after all. Make a list, and I'll show you how it was done better.

Nice try to avoid your issue and pass the burden of proof, but I want you to tell me. What is, in your opinion, the very best game story, and how it's "not even close" to your favorite film story.

Give me that one example, if you can, and I'll give you my list.

We've seen the trend of half-baked, half-finished, broken games being shipped (Street Fighter V being the most recent example), and that can only last for so long before people get wise

Ha! Yeah. That's why I'm a free market loving Libertarian

(in a perfect world anyway; people are dumb and keeping buying this shit, so maybe it'll just continue)

That's why I immediately acknowledge my ideals are untenable once letting my politics be known.

Is this seriously not self evident? Look at the very best of both media. The best of film and television completely blow away the best of games in terms of story and exploration of the human condition. It's not even close.

I used to believe that. As someone who liked games I constantly graded their stories on a curve compared what I saw and liked in other mediums. Then I played The Last of Us. The bar has been raised.

Nice try to avoid your issue and pass the burden of proof, but I want you to tell me. What is, in your opinion, the very best game story, and how it's "not even close" to your favorite film story.

Give me that one example, if you can, and I'll give you my list.

You got it. I'll write one up tonight.

I used to believe that. As someone who liked games I constantly graded their stories on a curve compared what I saw and liked in other mediums. Then I played The Last of Us. The bar has been raised.

I'm not sure that really serves as a counterpoint to what he's saying. While I do believe that there is some added value to the story from actually playing as Joel and Ellie and in a certain manner actually experiencing the story sort of through their eyes, I'm not really convinced that The Last of Us couldn't work just as well, or even potentially better, as a movie. It doesn't really do anything that only a game can inherently do at least as far as story is concerned.

I used to believe that. As someone who liked games I constantly graded their stories on a curve compared what I saw and liked in other mediums. Then I played The Last of Us. The bar has been raised.

I'm not sure that really serves as a counterpoint to what he's saying. While I do believe that there is some added value to the story from actually playing as Joel and Ellie and in a certain manner actually experiencing the story sort of through their eyes, I'm not really convinced that The Last of Us couldn't work just as well, or even potentially better, as a movie. It doesn't really do anything that only a game can inherently do at least as far as story is concerned.

It might be a little unfair to compare film and game stories, because games are not about stories (they are about interaction) thus the story is always support rather than the focus. That being said, you can still look at the types of stories in games and realize that on the whole they do not fare as well as those in other media, discounting the above point.

I used to believe that. As someone who liked games I constantly graded their stories on a curve compared what I saw and liked in other mediums. Then I played The Last of Us. The bar has been raised.

I'm not sure that really serves as a counterpoint to what he's saying. While I do believe that there is some added value to the story from actually playing as Joel and Ellie and in a certain manner actually experiencing the story sort of through their eyes, I'm not really convinced that The Last of Us couldn't work just as well, or even potentially better, as a movie. It doesn't really do anything that only a game can inherently do at least as far as story is concerned.

So my wife and I recently watched The Last of Us (games as movies version) on YouTube. It's about 6 hours long. It didn't have nearly the same impact as playing the game. TLoU is one of the few games I've played where the developers really leveraged the nature of the medium to strengthen the effectiveness of the story. Watching it still gets the points across, but playing it makes you feel certain developments more deeply. I found I was more tuned in to the subtle shifts the Elie and Joel's relationship while playing. Because it was literally my direct responsibility to keep her safe, I noticed every tiny little change in her behaviour. The way she starts off glued to Joel, hiding behind him for protection, following mere footsteps behind, hiding at the sight of danger... The first time she throws a brick at an enemy, I almost let myself get killed because I was momentarily shocked. "Woah, she's stepping it up!" I thought. Then to later see her actually taking the lead, running ahead of Joel. While watching it, those sorts of significant little details just seemed to go by without making much impact.

All of this isn't to say that TLoU couldn't be made into a good movie, but I've never had a movie affect me the way TLoU did. I feel like Naughty Dog really leveraged the player's active role in the story to create an experience only possible with a game.

All of this isn't to say that TLoU couldn't be made into a good movie, but I've never had a movie affect me the way TLoU did.

I can't say you're wrong, but that's just not true for me.

I feel like Naughty Dog really leveraged the player's active role in the story to create an experience only possible with a game.

And I don't disagree that Naughty Dog leveraged player activity in a really effective, and great, manner. Just for me, personally, that story can be told just as effectively in a very well executed movie. I think part of that is I just didn't react as strongly to TLoU as it seems that many people did. Honestly, I think the loss of Joel's daughter in the opening hit me as hard as anything in the rest of the game, and that didn't have anything to do with the actual gameplay.

I used to believe that. As someone who liked games I constantly graded their stories on a curve compared what I saw and liked in other mediums. Then I played The Last of Us. The bar has been raised.

I'm not sure that really serves as a counterpoint to what he's saying. While I do believe that there is some added value to the story from actually playing as Joel and Ellie and in a certain manner actually experiencing the story sort of through their eyes, I'm not really convinced that The Last of Us couldn't work just as well, or even potentially better, as a movie. It doesn't really do anything that only a game can inherently do at least as far as story is concerned.

You're introducing a different discussion. He didn't say anything about interactivity and which is better, a movie version of a game version of the same story. By those lights video games might win considering all the dogcrap video-game-based films. I'll agree with CruelLegacy about the superiority of playing it versus watching it being played (worth noting: the latter is not the same as a movie version even though there's a youtube video called that). But again, this is a different topic.

Cody said, "Look at the very best of both media. The best of film and television completely blow away the best of games in terms of story and exploration of the human condition. It's not even close."

I say in terms of story and exploration of the human condition, the best of film and television do not completely blow away "The Last of Us." It's pretty damn close. The Last of Us being so competitive by these measures is precisely why I'm looking forward to its film version.

Cody said, "Look at the very best of both media. The best of film and television completely blow away the best of games in terms of story and exploration of the human condition. It's not even close."

I say in terms of story and exploration of the human condition, the best of film and television do not completely blow away "The Last of Us." It's pretty damn close. The Last of Us being so competitive by these measures is precisely why I'm looking forward to its film version.

You are definitely correct. I definitely misconstrued the discussion (or misremembered from when I read it while on lunch earlier today). The Last of Us definitely compares to films in that respect.