It has been 70 days since I posted here, reasons both known and not. I have to admit, a part of me has missed posting here though.

How has Destiny been? Did I miss anything? I have of course heard about the content shortage, but frankly this eventuality was not surprising if you look at the current pattern of things. By the time April 1st comes around hopefully we'll have a different outlook on the future.

In that time, I've been debating a change in my original diabolical plan post-Mega post, in part because in the past whenever I would say "Destiny 2", in my brain I was saying late 2016. A good estimation, but I shouldn't have based something off an estimation. So... that was dumb on my part. I find my self asking if the plunge is worth it. The price has gone down and I think I might be able to get it down even more. SO after all these months, DBO - How was the Taken King? ...and would anyone be willing or able to team up with me with the find a friend promo?

-also-

With the recent beta, The Division recently jumped back onto my radar from 2014. I've searched, but the search function here has always been a bit flaky for me compared to what HBO has. What was this forums thoughts on it?

I my self enjoyed it enough to buy it. The gunplay reminded me alot of Mass Effect, with more tech and less space magic. Also Human AI - The most dangerous game. I hope The Division does well.

The Taken King was worth it for sure. Really fun, good story, good quests, good missions, good raid. Sadly, once you've cleared those things, the endgame is the exact same as vanilla destiny, which is to say that it's an endless series of repetitive strikes or PvP matches with ceaseless prayers to the RNG, the overwhelming majority of which come back unanswered.

If you just want to play through TTK's new stuff, it's well worth it. If you're worried you'll be sucked back in to the endless endgame grind once you've finished the new things, stay away.

How has Destiny been?

Same old, same old.

Did I miss anything?

Not Really. See above.

SO after all these months, DBO - How was the Taken King?

It's better then vanilla Destiny, but I dislike some of the changes made in the 2.0 mega-patch. Still miss my year-one guns. Bungie is still unreasonably stingy with loot drops.

With the recent beta, The Division recently jumped back onto my radar from 2014. I've searched, but the search function here has always been a bit flaky for me compared to what HBO has. What was this forums thoughts on it?

I liked it, has a lot of potential. Will probably wait to see how Ubisoft handles it before buy. Here's the thread you were looking for.

I my self enjoyed it enough to buy it. The gunplay reminded me alot of Mass Effect, with more tech and less space magic. Also Human AI - The most dangerous game. I hope The Division does well.

Accurate.

- No text -

SO after all these months, DBO - How was the Taken King? ...and would anyone be willing or able to team up with me with the find a friend promo?

I enjoy TTK quite a lot. Play it a lot. Would be happy to do the Refer-a-Friend thing with you. (What platform are you on?)

- No text -

If you just want to play through TTK's new stuff, it's well worth it. If you're worried you'll be sucked back in to the endless endgame grind once you've finished the new things, stay away.

This - at risk at eating my words (because human) - is not going to be happening anytime soon. BEHOLD!

I was able to secure this during the Halloween festivity last year. This was the only time you could get it (as far as I know). I Flipping?Fudgeing?Fuping?:P love this thing. Unfortunately - it is stuck at a very low light level. It can not be changed in any way. I don't care.

This right here is what will be stopping me from falling in, because I "can't" go all in anyway. Worth a shot.

Go ahead and send me email (errera at bungie dot org) and we'll figure out some timing. I think I have to send you a referral to make it work - I'll look into that. I'm out of town tonight, but we can start anytime after today (not sure what your schedule looks like, or how much time you want to devote to this).

- No text -

I was able to secure this during the Halloween festivity last year. This was the only time you could get it (as far as I know).

When I created a referral link (to send you) for the Refer-a-Friend program, it said

NOTE: New players qualify for referral for 7 days after they first play Destiny: The Taken King.

If you launched TTK in order to earn (or buy) that helmet last year, you might no longer qualify for this program. :(

(I can't remember if you had to have TTK to participate in the Halloween stuff, so if you didn't have it then, no problem - I could just be misinterpreting your text. ;) )

I was able to secure this during the Halloween festivity last year. This was the only time you could get it (as far as I know).

When I created a referral link (to send you) for the Refer-a-Friend program, it said

NOTE: New players qualify for referral for 7 days after they first play Destiny: The Taken King.

If you launched TTK in order to earn (or buy) that helmet last year, you might no longer qualify for this program. :(

(I can't remember if you had to have TTK to participate in the Halloween stuff, so if you didn't have it then, no problem - I could just be misinterpreting your text. ;) )

I'd be interested in know if it gives you a different message if the recipient has already played TTK. I would hope it does.

The Taken King was the first time Destiny began to feel like a real Bungie game, storywise. They still have a ways to go, though. (Insert obligatory "Grimoire cards are as good as anything they've done" here.)

One of the biggest improvements to me has been the "questification" of activities--not that the implementation is perfect, but I like easily seeing what I need to do. I'd also say that Bungie is best-in-class when it comes to making old areas seem new again, and they even open up new areas just when you think you've seen everything.

I still have quests to complete on my most advanced character, and I haven't played TTK as a Titan yet. I also haven't completed the new raid on hard, much less all the raid challenges. (I'm probably a "slow eater" compared to many here, so your mileage may vary.) All in all, I think the new raid is epic. The weapons are more fun in that they are easier to upgrade and try out, but there have slightly less variety than in year one. Because everything is less expensive to upgrade, I'm more inclined to shard a fully upgraded chest piece, for example, if I like the looks of it but I've gotten a new one with better perks.

You can read my thoughts about the Division in the thread that CyberKN linked to. Hopeful for the campaign. The comparison to Mass Effect is one of the more positive things I've heard. Of course the next Mass Effect will probably occupy me, and I'm not sure how much bandwidth I have for these long games.

- No text -

I was able to secure this during the Halloween festivity last year. This was the only time you could get it (as far as I know).

When I created a referral link (to send you) for the Refer-a-Friend program, it said

NOTE: New players qualify for referral for 7 days after they first play Destiny: The Taken King.

If you launched TTK in order to earn (or buy) that helmet last year, you might no longer qualify for this program. :(

(I can't remember if you had to have TTK to participate in the Halloween stuff, so if you didn't have it then, no problem - I could just be misinterpreting your text. ;) )

I'd be interested in know if it gives you a different message if the recipient has already played TTK. I would hope it does.

The way the system works, you generate the link, and then you email it to your referee. The system doesn't know who you're creating it for when the link is generated.

I was able to secure this during the Halloween festivity last year. This was the only time you could get it (as far as I know).

When I created a referral link (to send you) for the Refer-a-Friend program, it said

NOTE: New players qualify for referral for 7 days after they first play Destiny: The Taken King.

If you launched TTK in order to earn (or buy) that helmet last year, you might no longer qualify for this program. :(

(I can't remember if you had to have TTK to participate in the Halloween stuff, so if you didn't have it then, no problem - I could just be misinterpreting your text. ;) )

Check twice - Cut once.

I don't have TTK yet. The point of my post was to figure out if TTK would be worth it, and if such, if anyone here was still able to "Refer a Friend" (it's been so many months).

I have a Fire Team Event tomorrow. After that point, I'll make my decision. I will email you and trade notes. Thanks again. :)

I was able to secure this during the Halloween festivity last year. This was the only time you could get it (as far as I know).

When I created a referral link (to send you) for the Refer-a-Friend program, it said

NOTE: New players qualify for referral for 7 days after they first play Destiny: The Taken King.

If you launched TTK in order to earn (or buy) that helmet last year, you might no longer qualify for this program. :(

(I can't remember if you had to have TTK to participate in the Halloween stuff, so if you didn't have it then, no problem - I could just be misinterpreting your text. ;) )

I'd be interested in know if it gives you a different message if the recipient has already played TTK. I would hope it does.

The way the system works, you generate the link, and then you email it to your referee. The system doesn't know who you're creating it for when the link is generated.

Yeah, I helped some low-level randoms I met in the Steppes area right after Christmas and offered to link to them to help (them and me) with the quest. I've gotten that message but no update.

I was able to secure this during the Halloween festivity last year. This was the only time you could get it (as far as I know).

When I created a referral link (to send you) for the Refer-a-Friend program, it said

NOTE: New players qualify for referral for 7 days after they first play Destiny: The Taken King.

If you launched TTK in order to earn (or buy) that helmet last year, you might no longer qualify for this program. :(

(I can't remember if you had to have TTK to participate in the Halloween stuff, so if you didn't have it then, no problem - I could just be misinterpreting your text. ;) )

I'd be interested in know if it gives you a different message if the recipient has already played TTK. I would hope it does.

The way the system works, you generate the link, and then you email it to your referee. The system doesn't know who you're creating it for when the link is generated.

Yeah, I helped some low-level randoms I met in the Steppes area right after Christmas and offered to link to them to help (them and me) with the quest. I've gotten that message but no update.

I'm linked, but my message says:

Your friend has yet to purchase and play Destiny: The Taken King. Once they have completed the necessary steps, you will be Linked Friends.

My 2 cents: TTK is a big improvement over year 1 Destiny as you play through the story, side missions, and raid. But I find it to be a step backwards from year 1 when it comes to the end game. The story is better, the questification of the mission structure works well, there's a nice variety to the missions and strikes, you level up at a nice rate, and the raid is a great end-cap to the entire thing.

When it comes to the end game, I think Bungie unlearned a lot of what made HoW's progression system work so well. Loot drops are painfully sparse, and there is now an additional layer of RNG when it comes to acquiring new gear (2 layers in some cases). Let's say for example you really want the Raid hand cannon. You could run the raid 15 times before you get it to drop. But the raid weapons now come with randomized perk rolls, so when it finally does drop for you, it might have crappy perks. So you run it a bunch more until you get the perks you like. Except now the damage values of the weapon drops are random as well, so even if you get the gun you want with the perks you want, it might have a lower attack level than you want, so you'll need to get lucky with other drops in order to "infuse" it up to a higher damage level.

All these layers of RNG make it extremely time consuming and frustrating to get the gear you actually want to use, at a level where you can actually use it. The icing on the cake is that in most cases the new weapons are significantly inferior to the year 1 weapons. There are definitely some exceptions, but in general I don't find the year 2 weapons are worth the time and effort it takes to acquire them. You can go buy the Dead Orbit vendor scout rifle on day 1 and have arguably the best primary weapon in the game.

All that said, I still play Destiny constantly and enjoy it plenty. I just play a smaller subset of activities now than I did in year 1. Overall, I think there is lots to love and enjoy in TTK.

My 2 cents: TTK is a big improvement over year 1 Destiny as you play through the story, side missions, and raid. But I find it to be a step backwards from year 1 when it comes to the end game. The story is better, the questification of the mission structure works well, there's a nice variety to the missions and strikes, you level up at a nice rate, and the raid is a great end-cap to the entire thing.

When it comes to the end game, I think Bungie unlearned a lot of what made HoW's progression system work so well. Loot drops are painfully sparse, and there is now an additional layer of RNG when it comes to acquiring new gear (2 layers in some cases). Let's say for example you really want the Raid hand cannon. You could run the raid 15 times before you get it to drop. But the raid weapons now come with randomized perk rolls, so when it finally does drop for you, it might have crappy perks. So you run it a bunch more until you get the perks you like. Except now the damage values of the weapon drops are random as well, so even if you get the gun you want with the perks you want, it might have a lower attack level than you want, so you'll need to get lucky with other drops in order to "infuse" it up to a higher damage level.

Okay, so first off, nobody wants that hand cannon - its reload speed is glacial.

(Fine - no more jokes.)

I'll agree that there are a few levels to the 'get what you want' puzzle... but there are a few points I'd like to make:

1) I don't really understand the whole "run it until you get the perks you like" complaint - yes, there are 'god rolls', but if you're willing to live with a 'god - 1' roll, your waiting time drops by an order of magnitude, or more. There are certainly crappy mods... but the chances of getting DECENT mods are actually pretty good.

2) If you absolutely can't live without a particular roll, yes, you'll have to run things a few times to get it... but you might be exaggerating on the actual numbers. I've run Warpriest 2 or 3 dozen times, I'd guess, and I have worse luck than EVERYONE I've played with for Defiance of Yasmin (sniper rifle) drops. I ran it half a dozen times before the first one dropped. And then I ran it ANOTHER half-dozen times before one dropped above 312.

But if I look back now, I've had 6 or 7 drop, at least three of which were over 315. That's one every 3-5 runs... and like I said, I've never played with anyone who has worse luck than I do for that particular gun. Most people get one every other run or so. So 15 runs for a Zauli's Bane might be a slight exaggeration. :)

3) And the worse your luck is (and the more you have ammunition to argue with points 1 and 2 above), the less good your final argument is (the need to run EXTRA times to get infusion fodder). If you really had to run 30 raids to get a couple of specific-perk guns, I GUARANTEE you've got high-level gear to infuse those drops with, even if they land at 280 (which they won't).

I will definitely agree with you that they scaled back the loot drops in the TTK endgame, in comparison to the HoW endgame... but I don't think it's as bad as you're saying it is. (For perspective: I've gotten every single gun available in King's Fall, at least once - and usually more than once. I got my VERY FIRST Vex Mythoclast, and my VERY FIRST Vision of Confluence, last week - despite well over a year's worth of running VoG. I got my VERY FIRST (and only) Black Hammer about 3 months after I got a Black Spindle, despite many months of running Crota. So while getting EXACTLY the right gun might be harder now than it used to be... getting the GUN itself is actually easier.)

My 2 cents: TTK is a big improvement over year 1 Destiny as you play through the story, side missions, and raid. But I find it to be a step backwards from year 1 when it comes to the end game. The story is better, the questification of the mission structure works well, there's a nice variety to the missions and strikes, you level up at a nice rate, and the raid is a great end-cap to the entire thing.

When it comes to the end game, I think Bungie unlearned a lot of what made HoW's progression system work so well. Loot drops are painfully sparse, and there is now an additional layer of RNG when it comes to acquiring new gear (2 layers in some cases). Let's say for example you really want the Raid hand cannon. You could run the raid 15 times before you get it to drop. But the raid weapons now come with randomized perk rolls, so when it finally does drop for you, it might have crappy perks. So you run it a bunch more until you get the perks you like. Except now the damage values of the weapon drops are random as well, so even if you get the gun you want with the perks you want, it might have a lower attack level than you want, so you'll need to get lucky with other drops in order to "infuse" it up to a higher damage level.

Okay, so first off, nobody wants that hand cannon - its reload speed is glacial.

(Fine - no more jokes.)

It was worth it :)

I'll agree that there are a few levels to the 'get what you want' puzzle... but there are a few points I'd like to make:

1) I don't really understand the whole "run it until you get the perks you like" complaint - yes, there are 'god rolls', but if you're willing to live with a 'god - 1' roll, your waiting time drops by an order of magnitude, or more. There are certainly crappy mods... but the chances of getting DECENT mods are actually pretty good.

I think this is where a few issues sort of collide for me. On the one hand, I find a lot of the year 2 weapons (primaries in particular) feel outright bad unless I get just the right roll on them. So there are quite a few cases where I'll get the same gun a 5-10 times over before it finally drops with a roll that I find fun to use.

Then there's the PvP side, where every tiny little advantage can be important. If I'm using a decent Doctrine of Passing against a highly skilled opponent with a perfect Doctrine of Passing, he is going to win every single time. "Decent" just isn't good enough in that case. And since infusing weapons up to Trials levels can be a bit of an investment, I don't want to spend the materials and infusion fodder on anything less than an excellent roll.

2) If you absolutely can't live without a particular roll, yes, you'll have to run things a few times to get it... but you might be exaggerating on the actual numbers. I've run Warpriest 2 or 3 dozen times, I'd guess, and I have worse luck than EVERYONE I've played with for Defiance of Yasmin (sniper rifle) drops. I ran it half a dozen times before the first one dropped. And then I ran it ANOTHER half-dozen times before one dropped above 312.

But if I look back now, I've had 6 or 7 drop, at least three of which were over 315. That's one every 3-5 runs... and like I said, I've never played with anyone who has worse luck than I do for that particular gun. Most people get one every other run or so. So 15 runs for a Zauli's Bane might be a slight exaggeration. :)

I agree that Challenge mode has made the raid weapons far easier to come across, and I think that's great. But I don't think I'm exaggerating that much ;) I must have run the warpriest challenge 9 times (3 characters per try) before I got the sniper rifle I wanted. Considering that Challenge mode essentially yields double drops, that's A LOT of drops before getting the one I wanted. But that's fine. Not really a big deal at all. But when you apply those drop rates to activities that don't have a challenge mode, it becomes more frustrating. Aside from a single class item, a ghost, and a single pair of gloves, I've never had a item drop above 314 from Trials or Iron Banner, and I put a lot of time into both activities. 6 months into TTK, that feels a bit crummy to me. It's still not a big deal at all, but I can't help but ask "why?". Why keep the drop rates so low? Yes, it's silly... but it would be nice to get a drop every now and then that makes me say "wow, look what I got!" without having to add "too bad it doesn't have good perks" or "too bad it's only 302". It's kind of insane to me that you don't get a guaranteed 320 drop for going to the lighthouse or from a rank 5 Iron Banner package.

3) And the worse your luck is (and the more you have ammunition to argue with points 1 and 2 above), the less good your final argument is (the need to run EXTRA times to get infusion fodder). If you really had to run 30 raids to get a couple of specific-perk guns, I GUARANTEE you've got high-level gear to infuse those drops with, even if they land at 280 (which they won't).

You sir are greatly overestimating my available vault space lol. I have 2 empty weapon slots. That's it. I don't have room to hold on to unwanted drops as I get them. So I either infuse them into something I've already got, or scrap them.

I will definitely agree with you that they scaled back the loot drops in the TTK endgame, in comparison to the HoW endgame... but I don't think it's as bad as you're saying it is. (For perspective: I've gotten every single gun available in King's Fall, at least once - and usually more than once. I got my VERY FIRST Vex Mythoclast, and my VERY FIRST Vision of Confluence, last week - despite well over a year's worth of running VoG. I got my VERY FIRST (and only) Black Hammer about 3 months after I got a Black Spindle, despite many months of running Crota. So while getting EXACTLY the right gun might be harder now than it used to be... getting the GUN itself is actually easier.)

Agree with you 100% there. I think the key difference to me is that in year 1, when you finally did get that weapon you were hoping for, there were none of the caveats that exist now. You never said "I FINALLY GOT A FATEBRINGER... oh, the perks aren't great". The drop rates were certainly too low then, but you knew what you were getting when it finally dropped. This time around we have higher drop rates, but I'd argue that the chances of getting the "ideal" drops are even lower. I'm not convinced that it's an improvement. Is there really an argument against making every single normal Oryx drop a 310 and every single heroic drop a 320? Would that not be an instant improvement when it comes to the enjoyment players get out of the activities? Considering we still might not get a roll that we want, at least it would be awesome infusion fodder. Yes, there is challenge mode, but I see that as a solution to a problem that should never have existed.

Then there's the PvP side, where every tiny little advantage can be important. If I'm using a decent Doctrine of Passing against a highly skilled opponent with a perfect Doctrine of Passing, he is going to win every single time. "Decent" just isn't good enough in that case. And since infusing weapons up to Trials levels can be a bit of an investment, I don't want to spend the materials and infusion fodder on anything less than an excellent roll.

lol - I don't even HAVE a Doctrine of Passing, so I don't experience this struggle. ;) (In a more general, less jokey sense, when I lose 1v1s during a game, I almost NEVER think about what perks the other guy might have that I don't. Almost always, it's that he's better than me. I have a few go-to guns as primaries - and they're almost all Exotics, so perks are less important to me, I guess, because the other people using the same gun as me have the same perks as me. I use non-exotics in PvE - but there, there's nothing to compare with.)

2) If you absolutely can't live without a particular roll, yes, you'll have to run things a few times to get it... but you might be exaggerating on the actual numbers. I've run Warpriest 2 or 3 dozen times, I'd guess, and I have worse luck than EVERYONE I've played with for Defiance of Yasmin (sniper rifle) drops. I ran it half a dozen times before the first one dropped. And then I ran it ANOTHER half-dozen times before one dropped above 312.

But if I look back now, I've had 6 or 7 drop, at least three of which were over 315. That's one every 3-5 runs... and like I said, I've never played with anyone who has worse luck than I do for that particular gun. Most people get one every other run or so. So 15 runs for a Zauli's Bane might be a slight exaggeration. :)

I agree that Challenge mode has made the raid weapons far easier to come across, and I think that's great. But I don't think I'm exaggerating that much ;) I must have run the warpriest challenge 9 times (3 characters per try) before I got the sniper rifle I wanted. Considering that Challenge mode essentially yields double drops, that's A LOT of drops before getting the one I wanted. But that's fine. Not really a big deal at all. But when you apply those drop rates to activities that don't have a challenge mode, it becomes more frustrating. Aside from a single class item, a ghost, and a single pair of gloves, I've never had a item drop above 314 from Trials or Iron Banner, and I put a lot of time into both activities. 6 months into TTK, that feels a bit crummy to me. It's still not a big deal at all, but I can't help but ask "why?". Why keep the drop rates so low? Yes, it's silly... but it would be nice to get a drop every now and then that makes me say "wow, look what I got!" without having to add "too bad it doesn't have good perks" or "too bad it's only 302". It's kind of insane to me that you don't get a guaranteed 320 drop for going to the lighthouse or from a rank 5 Iron Banner package.

Hmm... I wonder if you and I are playing the same game. I've gotten exactly TWO types of Defiance of Yasmin/Harrowed DoY guns: one with Perfectionist, the other with Life Support. (Just looked - I currently have 4 left, and 3 have Perfectionist, one has Life Support.) They all have Cocoon as the second perk, they all have the same sights, the same barrel mods. I'm not seeing multiple rolls on this gun.

Likewise, most of my Quillim's Terminuses have Persistence or Eye of the Storm (I think I have one with Life Leech, but it's really not that different). They all have the same everything else.

I am NOT seeing huge numbers of variants for any of the raid weapons. :(

3) And the worse your luck is (and the more you have ammunition to argue with points 1 and 2 above), the less good your final argument is (the need to run EXTRA times to get infusion fodder). If you really had to run 30 raids to get a couple of specific-perk guns, I GUARANTEE you've got high-level gear to infuse those drops with, even if they land at 280 (which they won't).

You sir are greatly overestimating my available vault space lol. I have 2 empty weapon slots. That's it. I don't have room to hold on to unwanted drops as I get them. So I either infuse them into something I've already got, or scrap them.

I will definitely agree with you that they scaled back the loot drops in the TTK endgame, in comparison to the HoW endgame... but I don't think it's as bad as you're saying it is. (For perspective: I've gotten every single gun available in King's Fall, at least once - and usually more than once. I got my VERY FIRST Vex Mythoclast, and my VERY FIRST Vision of Confluence, last week - despite well over a year's worth of running VoG. I got my VERY FIRST (and only) Black Hammer about 3 months after I got a Black Spindle, despite many months of running Crota. So while getting EXACTLY the right gun might be harder now than it used to be... getting the GUN itself is actually easier.)

Agree with you 100% there. I think the key difference to me is that in year 1, when you finally did get that weapon you were hoping for, there were none of the caveats that exist now. You never said "I FINALLY GOT A FATEBRINGER... oh, the perks aren't great". The drop rates were certainly too low then, but you knew what you were getting when it finally dropped. This time around we have higher drop rates, but I'd argue that the chances of getting the "ideal" drops are even lower. I'm not convinced that it's an improvement. Is there really an argument against making every single normal Oryx drop a 310 and every single heroic drop a 320? Would that not be an instant improvement when it comes to the enjoyment players get out of the activities? Considering we still might not get a roll that we want, at least it would be awesome infusion fodder. Yes, there is challenge mode, but I see that as a solution to a problem that should never have existed.

Yeah, I'd definitely like your solution - but clearly Bungie doesn't agree with us. :)

... It's kind of insane to me that you don't get a guaranteed 320 drop for going to the lighthouse or from a rank 5 Iron Banner package.

Agree with this.

...

You sir are greatly overestimating my available vault space lol. I have 2 empty weapon slots. That's it. I don't have room to hold on to unwanted drops as I get them. So I either infuse them into something I've already got, or scrap them.

I feel you.

Agree with you 100% there. I think the key difference to me is that in year 1, when you finally did get that weapon you were hoping for, there were none of the caveats that exist now. You never said "I FINALLY GOT A FATEBRINGER... oh, the perks aren't great". The drop rates were certainly too low then, but you knew what you were getting when it finally dropped. This time around we have higher drop rates, but I'd argue that the chances of getting the "ideal" drops are even lower. I'm not convinced that it's an improvement. Is there really an argument against making every single normal Oryx drop a 310 and every single heroic drop a 320? Would that not be an instant improvement when it comes to the enjoyment players get out of the activities? Considering we still might not get a roll that we want, at least it would be awesome infusion fodder. Yes, there is challenge mode, but I see that as a solution to a problem that should never have existed.

Do we have some indication that challenge mode wasn't planned all along? Honestly (and I say this as someone who has spent many hours this week unsuccessfully completing a challenge--BTW, Cruel, get on early tonight and HELP!), the challenges are not substantially more difficult than doing it the usual way, and they do entice you to raid, so perhaps the "problem" was presumed to be short-lived from Bungie's perspective.

Then there's the PvP side, where every tiny little advantage can be important. If I'm using a decent Doctrine of Passing against a highly skilled opponent with a perfect Doctrine of Passing, he is going to win every single time. "Decent" just isn't good enough in that case. And since infusing weapons up to Trials levels can be a bit of an investment, I don't want to spend the materials and infusion fodder on anything less than an excellent roll.

lol - I don't even HAVE a Doctrine of Passing, so I don't experience this struggle. ;) (In a more general, less jokey sense, when I lose 1v1s during a game, I almost NEVER think about what perks the other guy might have that I don't. Almost always, it's that he's better than me. I have a few go-to guns as primaries - and they're almost all Exotics, so perks are less important to me, I guess, because the other people using the same gun as me have the same perks as me. I use non-exotics in PvE - but there, there's nothing to compare with.)

I actually wonder if that is one of the reasons why exotic primaries often seem to dominate the crucible (in terms of "which weapons get used the most")... there's no guess work involved. If you're using a Mida multitool and you get killed by a guy who is also using Mida, he outplayed you. Simple. No doubt about "is his roll better than mine" or "I wonder what perks he has". I guess there is still the slight possibility of attack levels making a difference in certain playlists, but I doubt it makes a huge impact. It just seems simpler psychologically.

2) If you absolutely can't live without a particular roll, yes, you'll have to run things a few times to get it... but you might be exaggerating on the actual numbers. I've run Warpriest 2 or 3 dozen times, I'd guess, and I have worse luck than EVERYONE I've played with for Defiance of Yasmin (sniper rifle) drops. I ran it half a dozen times before the first one dropped. And then I ran it ANOTHER half-dozen times before one dropped above 312.

But if I look back now, I've had 6 or 7 drop, at least three of which were over 315. That's one every 3-5 runs... and like I said, I've never played with anyone who has worse luck than I do for that particular gun. Most people get one every other run or so. So 15 runs for a Zauli's Bane might be a slight exaggeration. :)

I agree that Challenge mode has made the raid weapons far easier to come across, and I think that's great. But I don't think I'm exaggerating that much ;) I must have run the warpriest challenge 9 times (3 characters per try) before I got the sniper rifle I wanted. Considering that Challenge mode essentially yields double drops, that's A LOT of drops before getting the one I wanted. But that's fine. Not really a big deal at all. But when you apply those drop rates to activities that don't have a challenge mode, it becomes more frustrating. Aside from a single class item, a ghost, and a single pair of gloves, I've never had a item drop above 314 from Trials or Iron Banner, and I put a lot of time into both activities. 6 months into TTK, that feels a bit crummy to me. It's still not a big deal at all, but I can't help but ask "why?". Why keep the drop rates so low? Yes, it's silly... but it would be nice to get a drop every now and then that makes me say "wow, look what I got!" without having to add "too bad it doesn't have good perks" or "too bad it's only 302". It's kind of insane to me that you don't get a guaranteed 320 drop for going to the lighthouse or from a rank 5 Iron Banner package.

Hmm... I wonder if you and I are playing the same game. I've gotten exactly TWO types of Defiance of Yasmin/Harrowed DoY guns: one with Perfectionist, the other with Life Support. (Just looked - I currently have 4 left, and 3 have Perfectionist, one has Life Support.) They all have Cocoon as the second perk, they all have the same sights, the same barrel mods. I'm not seeing multiple rolls on this gun.

Likewise, most of my Quillim's Terminuses have Persistence or Eye of the Storm (I think I have one with Life Leech, but it's really not that different). They all have the same everything else.

I am NOT seeing huge numbers of variants for any of the raid weapons. :(

In particular, I wanted a sniper with Firefly. I think I've become a bit of a Firely addict... the perk, AND the TV show :)

Agree with you 100% there. I think the key difference to me is that in year 1, when you finally did get that weapon you were hoping for, there were none of the caveats that exist now. You never said "I FINALLY GOT A FATEBRINGER... oh, the perks aren't great". The drop rates were certainly too low then, but you knew what you were getting when it finally dropped. This time around we have higher drop rates, but I'd argue that the chances of getting the "ideal" drops are even lower. I'm not convinced that it's an improvement. Is there really an argument against making every single normal Oryx drop a 310 and every single heroic drop a 320? Would that not be an instant improvement when it comes to the enjoyment players get out of the activities? Considering we still might not get a roll that we want, at least it would be awesome infusion fodder. Yes, there is challenge mode, but I see that as a solution to a problem that should never have existed.

Yeah, I'd definitely like your solution - but clearly Bungie doesn't agree with us. :)

I've heard 2 episodes of the Planet Destiny podcast that featured Bungie employees over the past few months; they did an episode with Luke Smith back in October and an episode with Leif Johansen (one of the PvP designers) during Crimson Doubles. In both episodes, the cohosts of the podcast relayed their rather disappointing loot-drop experiences to their guests from bungie, and in both cases the bungie employees sounded legitimately surprised. The PD guys were quite specific: "36 games of Crimson Doubles, no ghosts" or "7 King's Fall completions, 2 primary weapons, no helmets". That kind of thing. This is obviously 100% conjecture on my part, but after hearing both reactions I wouldn't actually be surprised if there was a bug somewhere in Bungie's loot-drop algorithms that is causing things to behave strangely. Leif in particular was very clear that the experience the PD guys were having was "not the intended design".

Agree with you 100% there. I think the key difference to me is that in year 1, when you finally did get that weapon you were hoping for, there were none of the caveats that exist now. You never said "I FINALLY GOT A FATEBRINGER... oh, the perks aren't great". The drop rates were certainly too low then, but you knew what you were getting when it finally dropped. This time around we have higher drop rates, but I'd argue that the chances of getting the "ideal" drops are even lower. I'm not convinced that it's an improvement. Is there really an argument against making every single normal Oryx drop a 310 and every single heroic drop a 320? Would that not be an instant improvement when it comes to the enjoyment players get out of the activities? Considering we still might not get a roll that we want, at least it would be awesome infusion fodder. Yes, there is challenge mode, but I see that as a solution to a problem that should never have existed.

Do we have some indication that challenge mode wasn't planned all along? Honestly (and I say this as someone who has spent many hours this week unsuccessfully completing a challenge--BTW, Cruel, get on early tonight and HELP!), the challenges are not substantially more difficult than doing it the usual way, and they do entice you to raid, so perhaps the "problem" was presumed to be short-lived from Bungie's perspective.

That's a very interesting question. The first thought that comes to mind is "what has challenge mode done to the raid?". Or put another way, "look at how challenge mode has effected the way we play the raid".

I can't remember the last time I jumped in with a group and played the raid from start to finish. It just doesn't seem to happen anymore. I believe the reason for that is simply that the raid drops were abysmal until challenge mode came along. People don't want to bang their heads against Oryx for 2 hours and walk away with a 311 hand cannon with crappy perks. By comparison, Challenge mode showers loot on the player in such a way that it can be tough to pass up the opportunity.

I could be way off on this, but my gut tells me that the way many of us play the raid now is probably not what Luke Smith and the raid team were hoping for when they released King's Fall. It just doesn't seem like the kind of experience they would want us to have.

Do we have some indication that challenge mode wasn't planned all along?

I believe so. If you look at how the chests are placed when you defeat Oryx challenge mode they're mirrored along the symmetric axis of the room, but when you defeat Oryx (non challenge mode) you only get 1 chest, and it's off to the side kinda wonky style with no match on the other side.

Except now the damage values of the weapon drops are random as well, so even if you get the gun you want with the perks you want, it might have a lower attack level than you want, so you'll need to get lucky with other drops in order to "infuse" it up to a higher damage level.

Light level doesn't matter quite as much in the end-game activities. Sure, higher is better. But the degree of how much better has been scaled.

Honestly, I don't find the difference between 314 and 317 compelling enough to alter my preferred aesthetics when I play. There is a comfortable range of light that is able to compete well in pretty much all activities. I just played IB with a range of characters from 300 to 318. I didn't really notice a huge difference in the outcomes of each match.

As such, I view getting the higher light as something fun to chase, but I never feel like I have to have it to be playing destiny correctly. I get wanting to be a 320. But I don't get the feeling that some have that it isn't fun unless every drop brings you closer to 320. The math of that particular treadmill ensures that you will be more angry/frustrated the longer you play. Bungie freed us from that with TTK.

That being said. We need to have something like etheric light drop again, even if it capped at 315 or something. That was the best thing Destiny did to its loot system. Suddenly, everything was a viable choice. Old raid weapons were fun to bring on new activities. Sure it probably makes weapon balance harder to juggle (with so many options), but I'm not convinced we have a better pool of weapons now.

Agree with you 100% there. I think the key difference to me is that in year 1, when you finally did get that weapon you were hoping for, there were none of the caveats that exist now. You never said "I FINALLY GOT A FATEBRINGER... oh, the perks aren't great". The drop rates were certainly too low then, but you knew what you were getting when it finally dropped. This time around we have higher drop rates, but I'd argue that the chances of getting the "ideal" drops are even lower. I'm not convinced that it's an improvement. Is there really an argument against making every single normal Oryx drop a 310 and every single heroic drop a 320? Would that not be an instant improvement when it comes to the enjoyment players get out of the activities? Considering we still might not get a roll that we want, at least it would be awesome infusion fodder. Yes, there is challenge mode, but I see that as a solution to a problem that should never have existed.

Do we have some indication that challenge mode wasn't planned all along? Honestly (and I say this as someone who has spent many hours this week unsuccessfully completing a challenge--BTW, Cruel, get on early tonight and HELP!), the challenges are not substantially more difficult than doing it the usual way, and they do entice you to raid, so perhaps the "problem" was presumed to be short-lived from Bungie's perspective.

That's a very interesting question. The first thought that comes to mind is "what has challenge mode done to the raid?". Or put another way, "look at how challenge mode has effected the way we play the raid".

I can't remember the last time I jumped in with a group and played the raid from start to finish. It just doesn't seem to happen anymore. I believe the reason for that is simply that the raid drops were abysmal until challenge mode came along. People don't want to bang their heads against Oryx for 2 hours and walk away with a 311 hand cannon with crappy perks. By comparison, Challenge mode showers loot on the player in such a way that it can be tough to pass up the opportunity.

I could be way off on this, but my gut tells me that the way many of us play the raid now is probably not what Luke Smith and the raid team were hoping for when they released King's Fall. It just doesn't seem like the kind of experience they would want us to have.

I'm a fan of finishing a raid in one session--it gives me a sense of completion and feeds that immersion-in-the-story itch I have. I don't know that I've done that for King's Fall. It wasn't about the drops--it's just too long. So if one-session playthroughs were what Luke Smith intended, a bigger-is-better mentality collided with their vision in terms of the practical consequences. The challenges, however, encourage playing chunks, which is more reasonable. Who knows if they anticipated our behavior? They probably didn't. But what keeps me from saying the challenges were the answer to the problem is that I can't help but think they were thought of while the raid was being designed. We've already been told that hard mode was the initial design, and they scaled back for normal. Makes sense that challenge mode would be tested from the start. What if they had a week where if you completed all challenges in a given week Zavala gave you a choice of 320 raid weapons or armor?

Except now the damage values of the weapon drops are random as well, so even if you get the gun you want with the perks you want, it might have a lower attack level than you want, so you'll need to get lucky with other drops in order to "infuse" it up to a higher damage level.

Light level doesn't matter quite as much in the end-game activities. Sure, higher is better. But the degree of how much better has been scaled.

Honestly, I don't find the difference between 314 and 317 compelling enough to alter my preferred aesthetics when I play. There is a comfortable range of light that is able to compete well in pretty much all activities. I just played IB with a range of characters from 300 to 318. I didn't really notice a huge difference in the outcomes of each match.

I generally agree. But I do run into the occasional situations where I feel the difference. If I'm running my hunter with a build in the low 300s I start to run into cases where I'll stick players in the 315-320 range with my tripmine and not kill them. Or I'll find I need to hit them with 3 body shots from my low-impact sniper to kill them. I can still play the game and generally have fun, but I find that the closer I get to 320, the less often those frustrating moments occur.

As such, I view getting the higher light as something fun to chase, but I never feel like I have to have it to be playing destiny correctly. I get wanting to be a 320. But I don't get the feeling that some have that it isn't fun unless every drop brings you closer to 320. The math of that particular treadmill ensures that you will be more angry/frustrated the longer you play. Bungie freed us from that with TTK.

For me, it's not that I care about hitting 320 per say. It's that I want to be able to use a wide range of gear, with various armor builds, while maintaining a level that is high enough for me to not worry about any level disadvantages (roughly 315 and up). In order for me to be able to do this, I need a steady stream of 320 drops to use as infusion fodder into the gear I actually want to play with.

In House of Wolves, I found it far easier to focus on building a wide range of gear, because the vertical climb was so short. Like those boots? 1 piece of etheric light and BAM they're max level. You can use them in any activity. TTK just adds so many more random drops and RNG dependence into the mix.

Agree with you 100% there. I think the key difference to me is that in year 1, when you finally did get that weapon you were hoping for, there were none of the caveats that exist now. You never said "I FINALLY GOT A FATEBRINGER... oh, the perks aren't great". The drop rates were certainly too low then, but you knew what you were getting when it finally dropped. This time around we have higher drop rates, but I'd argue that the chances of getting the "ideal" drops are even lower. I'm not convinced that it's an improvement. Is there really an argument against making every single normal Oryx drop a 310 and every single heroic drop a 320? Would that not be an instant improvement when it comes to the enjoyment players get out of the activities? Considering we still might not get a roll that we want, at least it would be awesome infusion fodder. Yes, there is challenge mode, but I see that as a solution to a problem that should never have existed.

Do we have some indication that challenge mode wasn't planned all along? Honestly (and I say this as someone who has spent many hours this week unsuccessfully completing a challenge--BTW, Cruel, get on early tonight and HELP!), the challenges are not substantially more difficult than doing it the usual way, and they do entice you to raid, so perhaps the "problem" was presumed to be short-lived from Bungie's perspective.

That's a very interesting question. The first thought that comes to mind is "what has challenge mode done to the raid?". Or put another way, "look at how challenge mode has effected the way we play the raid".

I can't remember the last time I jumped in with a group and played the raid from start to finish. It just doesn't seem to happen anymore. I believe the reason for that is simply that the raid drops were abysmal until challenge mode came along. People don't want to bang their heads against Oryx for 2 hours and walk away with a 311 hand cannon with crappy perks. By comparison, Challenge mode showers loot on the player in such a way that it can be tough to pass up the opportunity.

I could be way off on this, but my gut tells me that the way many of us play the raid now is probably not what Luke Smith and the raid team were hoping for when they released King's Fall. It just doesn't seem like the kind of experience they would want us to have.

I'm a fan of finishing a raid in one session--it gives me a sense of completion and feeds that immersion-in-the-story itch I have. I don't know that I've done that for King's Fall. It wasn't about the drops--it's just too long. So if one-session playthroughs were what Luke Smith intended, a bigger-is-better mentality collided with their vision in terms of the practical consequences. The challenges, however, encourage playing chunks, which is more reasonable. Who knows if they anticipated our behavior? They probably didn't. But what keeps me from saying the challenges were the answer to the problem is that I can't help but think they were thought of while the raid was being designed. We've already been told that hard mode was the initial design, and they scaled back for normal. Makes sense that challenge mode would be tested from the start.

I could be wrong, but I though Bungie said as much just before Challenge mode was released, no? At any rate, I agree with you that Challenge mode was planned far in advance. What I'm not sure about is if the Challenge mode rewards were planned just as early, or if that was a sort of band-aid reaction to the outcry from the community surrounding how poor the raid drops seemed to be.

What if they had a week where if you completed all challenges in a given week Zavala gave you a choice of 320 raid weapons or armor?

That would be very interesting. Perhaps something similar to the Prison of Elder rewards, where you would be given a currency that could be used to purchase a 320 item from one of the vendors, and the available item(s) rotated each week?

Agree with you 100% there. I think the key difference to me is that in year 1, when you finally did get that weapon you were hoping for, there were none of the caveats that exist now. You never said "I FINALLY GOT A FATEBRINGER... oh, the perks aren't great". The drop rates were certainly too low then, but you knew what you were getting when it finally dropped. This time around we have higher drop rates, but I'd argue that the chances of getting the "ideal" drops are even lower. I'm not convinced that it's an improvement. Is there really an argument against making every single normal Oryx drop a 310 and every single heroic drop a 320? Would that not be an instant improvement when it comes to the enjoyment players get out of the activities? Considering we still might not get a roll that we want, at least it would be awesome infusion fodder. Yes, there is challenge mode, but I see that as a solution to a problem that should never have existed.

Do we have some indication that challenge mode wasn't planned all along? Honestly (and I say this as someone who has spent many hours this week unsuccessfully completing a challenge--BTW, Cruel, get on early tonight and HELP!), the challenges are not substantially more difficult than doing it the usual way, and they do entice you to raid, so perhaps the "problem" was presumed to be short-lived from Bungie's perspective.

That's a very interesting question. The first thought that comes to mind is "what has challenge mode done to the raid?". Or put another way, "look at how challenge mode has effected the way we play the raid".

I can't remember the last time I jumped in with a group and played the raid from start to finish. It just doesn't seem to happen anymore. I believe the reason for that is simply that the raid drops were abysmal until challenge mode came along. People don't want to bang their heads against Oryx for 2 hours and walk away with a 311 hand cannon with crappy perks. By comparison, Challenge mode showers loot on the player in such a way that it can be tough to pass up the opportunity.

I could be way off on this, but my gut tells me that the way many of us play the raid now is probably not what Luke Smith and the raid team were hoping for when they released King's Fall. It just doesn't seem like the kind of experience they would want us to have.

I'm a fan of finishing a raid in one session--it gives me a sense of completion and feeds that immersion-in-the-story itch I have. I don't know that I've done that for King's Fall. It wasn't about the drops--it's just too long. So if one-session playthroughs were what Luke Smith intended, a bigger-is-better mentality collided with their vision in terms of the practical consequences. The challenges, however, encourage playing chunks, which is more reasonable. Who knows if they anticipated our behavior? They probably didn't. But what keeps me from saying the challenges were the answer to the problem is that I can't help but think they were thought of while the raid was being designed. We've already been told that hard mode was the initial design, and they scaled back for normal. Makes sense that challenge mode would be tested from the start.

I could be wrong, but I though Bungie said as much just before Challenge mode was released, no? At any rate, I agree with you that Challenge mode was planned far in advance. What I'm not sure about is if the Challenge mode rewards were planned just as early, or if that was a sort of band-aid reaction to the outcry from the community surrounding how poor the raid drops seemed to be.

What if they had a week where if you completed all challenges in a given week Zavala gave you a choice of 320 raid weapons or armor?

That would be very interesting. Perhaps something similar to the Prison of Elder rewards, where you would be given a currency that could be used to purchase a 320 item from one of the vendors, and the available item(s) rotated each week?

Yeah, hire this man for your progression team, Bungie, and hire Raga for the story, and hire me as the resident Elder. I can push a coffee cup.

I will definitely agree with you that they scaled back the loot drops in the TTK endgame, in comparison to the HoW endgame... but I don't think it's as bad as you're saying it is. (For perspective: I've gotten every single gun available in King's Fall, at least once - and usually more than once. I got my VERY FIRST Vex Mythoclast, and my VERY FIRST Vision of Confluence, last week - despite well over a year's worth of running VoG. I got my VERY FIRST (and only) Black Hammer about 3 months after I got a Black Spindle, despite many months of running Crota. So while getting EXACTLY the right gun might be harder now than it used to be... getting the GUN itself is actually easier.)

The difference is that those pre TTK weapons were already ready to go and easily maxed out for the endgame. There is no way you have all of the King's fall weapons at 315+. Getting it is only the FIRST step in TTK. You then have to get more to infuse it to a level you like. 310 is a comfortable minimum for all guns in the end game I think. This would all be fine if there were more options for infusion.

In that time, I've been debating a change in my original diabolical plan post-Mega post, in part because in the past whenever I would say "Destiny 2", in my brain I was saying late 2016. A good estimation, but I shouldn't have based something off an estimation. So... that was dumb on my part. I find my self asking if the plunge is worth it. The price has gone down and I think I might be able to get it down even more. SO after all these months, DBO - How was the Taken King? ...and would anyone be willing or able to team up with me with the find a friend promo?

Destiny is actually really dumb. There's good to it, but it's really just a dumb stupid frustrating game. It really is. The longer I stay away, the more apparent it becomes.

My advice is to get TTK, and play the story missions, quests, and raid once. Do not attempt hard mode. Then put it down and wait until the fall or 2017, or whenever something comes out that excites you.

There is zero chance I will play Destiny in any way other than this going forward. There is a non zero chance I won't come back at all. Inertia is pretty powerful, and with all the excitement and opportunity in my life right now the last thing I want to do is play a game that abuses me.

So anyone with 7 tiers of armor or higher will survive. I, personally, always run at least 6 tiers of armor plus I wear a chest piece with "bonus armor for X subclass" to get me to 7.

The number of times you failed to kill someone because of relative light level is probably pretty small. Especially in this min/max PvP world, I find people are either running near max armor or near minimum, with very few people running the exactly 6 total armor they'd need to be running for the light level difference to change the game.

So anyone with 7 tiers of armor or higher will survive. I, personally, always run at least 6 tiers of armor plus I wear a chest piece with "bonus armor for X subclass" to get me to 7.

Enough that I don't think I've never not killed someone that was actually stuck with a tripmine unless a super was involved.

I will definitely agree with you that they scaled back the loot drops in the TTK endgame, in comparison to the HoW endgame... but I don't think it's as bad as you're saying it is. (For perspective: I've gotten every single gun available in King's Fall, at least once - and usually more than once. I got my VERY FIRST Vex Mythoclast, and my VERY FIRST Vision of Confluence, last week - despite well over a year's worth of running VoG. I got my VERY FIRST (and only) Black Hammer about 3 months after I got a Black Spindle, despite many months of running Crota. So while getting EXACTLY the right gun might be harder now than it used to be... getting the GUN itself is actually easier.)

The difference is that those pre TTK weapons were already ready to go and easily maxed out for the endgame. There is no way you have all of the King's fall weapons at 315+. Getting it is only the FIRST step in TTK. You then have to get more to infuse it to a level you like. 310 is a comfortable minimum for all guns in the end game I think. This would all be fine if there were more options for infusion.

I can't tell you the levels of the guns I've used for infusion, but I can tell you that with one exception (the fusion rifle, which dropped at 317), I've had at least one, and in a couple of cases, multiple drops of every single raid weapon at the 320 level. I still have one copy of the pulse, one copy of the scout, and three copies of the HMG. I've used at least two 320 ARs and two 320 hand cannons for infusion. I've got two 320 snipers right now, so i must have had at least two raid snipers drop. (I can't think of what else I might have used to bring up my 1kys and my black spindle.) I've gone through at least 4 rocket launchers.

So anyone with 7 tiers of armor or higher will survive. I, personally, always run at least 6 tiers of armor plus I wear a chest piece with "bonus armor for X subclass" to get me to 7.

Enough that I don't think I've never not killed someone that was actually stuck with a tripmine unless a super was involved.

Yep, the impact of the grenade landing on them does 6 or 8 points of damage... Enough for the detonation to be a guaranteed kill in almost every case. I've seen max armor Titans or Ramlocks survive it on occasion, but that's about it (until power levels come into the equation). I stuck a 319 Hunter in the face a couple days ago and he walked away, no problem. I was 306 at the time.

I will definitely agree with you that they scaled back the loot drops in the TTK endgame, in comparison to the HoW endgame... but I don't think it's as bad as you're saying it is. (For perspective: I've gotten every single gun available in King's Fall, at least once - and usually more than once. I got my VERY FIRST Vex Mythoclast, and my VERY FIRST Vision of Confluence, last week - despite well over a year's worth of running VoG. I got my VERY FIRST (and only) Black Hammer about 3 months after I got a Black Spindle, despite many months of running Crota. So while getting EXACTLY the right gun might be harder now than it used to be... getting the GUN itself is actually easier.)

The difference is that those pre TTK weapons were already ready to go and easily maxed out for the endgame. There is no way you have all of the King's fall weapons at 315+. Getting it is only the FIRST step in TTK. You then have to get more to infuse it to a level you like. 310 is a comfortable minimum for all guns in the end game I think. This would all be fine if there were more options for infusion.

I can't tell you the levels of the guns I've used for infusion, but I can tell you that with one exception (the fusion rifle, which dropped at 317), I've had at least one, and in a couple of cases, multiple drops of every single raid weapon at the 320 level. I still have one copy of the pulse, one copy of the scout, and three copies of the HMG. I've used at least two 320 ARs and two 320 hand cannons for infusion. I've got two 320 snipers right now, so i must have had at least two raid snipers drop. (I can't think of what else I might have used to bring up my 1kys and my black spindle.) I've gone through at least 4 rocket launchers.

Just curious :) Challenge mode aside, I've never gotten a single 320 from the raid.

Just curious :) Challenge mode aside, I've never gotten a single 320 from the raid.

Yup, same.

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