I'm just the off-topic guy around here, lately, I guess.

The first teaser trailer just dropped for Rogue One.

I loved The Force Awakens, and I think this has potential. I'm actually pretty excited to see some sort of spin-off movies in the Star Wars universe and (hopefully!) get some unique perspectives that aren't just all about the Jedi.

That said, I'm not sure about based on this trailer alone. It looks like it will at least be visually stunning, but the writing seemed weird. ("This is a rebellion, isn't it? I rebel." Seriously? That's awful.)

So, I guess I'm cautiously optimistic about this one.

Looks beautiful, can't really tell much more about it one way or the other. But I'm excited anyway. I loved TFA as well... I'm more than happy to get a steady flow of Star Wars movies over the next few years, as long as they're at least decent (which I'm sure they will be).

Granted, it's just a teaser trailer, but the fact that we have a female lead who clearly isn't a Mary Sue has me way more excited for this after seeing Episode VII.

Full-length feature EU material? Give me. Nao.

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Gareth Edwards' previous film, Godzilla, did a TON of things very, very right. My nitpicks were few. Between that and Monsters, he's shown that he can tell a human story first and foremost despite the setting (even using the setting to help tell the story).

That said, the actress in this teaser is pretty bad, and the overacting isn't helped by the terrible dialogue throughout.

That said, I love the more grounded tale that they look to be telling (steal the Death Star plans that kick off Episode 4), and it really looks like it could have been a Battlefield game in the style of Bad Company, so I'm excited.

But yeah, I'm all for strong female leads, but arrogance is always annoying (one of my favorite "strong, arrogant female" protagonists, Korra, became a stronger and BETTER character the more they "broke the cutie", so to speak), so I hope the teaser isn't indicative of the character throughout.

He actually had the same reaction I did, that it was completely derivative. I still thought it was all right on the strength of its film making, but, again, as I see it more and more, I find it less entertaining. He called it a complete waste of $20.

I'm hoping with this movie we can get a new and interesting plot, and really add to the universe. I have no doubt the movie will be at least pretty good.

The things people are complaining about, bad dialogue and lame acting, to me are hallmarks of Star Wars, and, in my opinion, are totally fine. I'm pretty excited for this movie. As long as it's well made, they can't screw it up. I don't feel the need for innovation here as much as in a normal Star Wars movie. I am not going to go into this one expecting to be blown away, as I was, and have been, in the first six movies.

As a result, I'm pretty excited for this.

Granted, it was patently obvious, but it seemed like the lady doing the talking was purposefully ignoring the obvious.

Granted, it was patently obvious, but it seemed like the lady doing the talking was purposefully ignoring the obvious.

That was my take, too. Like the "rebel" in question was poking fun at Mon Mothra.

Every time the monsters are shown, they're doing something cool.

The last starwars movie suffers majorly because for most of the movie the characters act incompetent, except for Mary Sue Rei, who is awesome at everything. The good parts of the movie are all Harrision Ford doing something cool or interesting, the bad parts are pretty much everything else.

If they made a starwars movie where the main characters are doing cool stuff all the time, well that would be an awesome movie. It would be like the Clone Wars shorts, which still hold up even if the prequels didn't.

Every time the monsters are shown, they're doing something cool.

The last starwars movie suffers majorly because for most of the movie the characters act incompetent, except for Mary Sue Rei, who is awesome at everything. The good parts of the movie are all Harrision Ford doing something cool or interesting, the bad parts are pretty much everything else.

If they made a starwars movie where the main characters are doing cool stuff all the time, well that would be an awesome movie. It would be like the Clone Wars shorts, which still hold up even if the prequels didn't.

I don't agree with you there at all. Characters in Star Wars (or most movies) are not equivalent to monsters in a Godzilla movie. There should be more to them than just showing up and doing something awesome. My favorite part about the TFA is that we saw main characters succeed and fail. If we never see characters struggle or grow, then there is an inherent lack of depth. And that's just boring to me.

TFA SPOILERS BELOW:

I also think you're going way to far by saying "most of the movie the characters act incompetent". Who, exactly, is incompetent? Poe is a fucking wizard of a Pilot. Fin successfully escapes the First Order, then successfully rescues Rey (who may or may not have eventually gotten out without him, but that's beside the point). Hux and the First Order blow up 6 Planets, which is a major victory by any measure. Chewbacca kicks serious ass. Ren achieves a huge personal victory by sacrificing his own father, not to mention successfully tracking Fin, Rey and BB8, capturing Rey, and then kicking the snot out of Fin and almost defeating Rey despite the giant gaping whole in his torso.

I really didn't see much incompetence from anyone, really.

The stormtrooper can't do his job. He is caught being weird. They don't understand how to operate a tie fighter and luck out in getting out of the hangar. They are shot down onto the planet. Finn sees the droid by lucking out. He can't successfully lie to anyone, except apparently the girl, who has no idea what's going on. She initially picks a bad ship, being forced into the MF when it's her only option. They can't successfully kill the boarders. Han and Chewie can't talk their way out of a fight. Rey opens the wrong door, releasing the big animal things. And so on, throughout the movie.

I don't consider this a problem, a lot of the plot points in Star Wars films are based on the characters making bad decisions. Trash compacter, etc. It's hard to deny it.

Some of those are interesting claims of incompetence--I don't know how to steal, launch, and fly a plane, but if I was in a situation where I suddenly needed to, I would feel it was more a result of ignorance, not incompetence. The word generally has a connotation regarding ability that is expected, not being good at anything that gets thrown at you.

It's also interesting to me that in this discussion the characters are being painted as either too good at everything, or bad at everything. Very binary.

Along with that, a movie that just showed people doing awesome things all the time sounds boring and narratively ineffectual. How would you know what they are doing is awesome without some contrast? Why would you care?

The stormtrooper can't do his job. He is caught being weird. They don't understand how to operate a tie fighter and luck out in getting out of the hangar. They are shot down onto the planet. Finn sees the droid by lucking out. He can't successfully lie to anyone, except apparently the girl, who has no idea what's going on. She initially picks a bad ship, being forced into the MF when it's her only option. They can't successfully kill the boarders. Han and Chewie can't talk their way out of a fight. Rey opens the wrong door, releasing the big animal things. And so on, throughout the movie.

I don't consider this a problem, a lot of the plot points in Star Wars films are based on the characters making bad decisions. Trash compacter, etc. It's hard to deny it.

I'm not saying they don't make mistakes... I just explained why I think it's important to show that the DO make mistakes. I'm saying that claiming "everyone in the movie is incompetent" just doesn't jive with the events in the movie. It simply isn't true.

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I really didn't see much incompetence from anyone, really.

Uh, Luke was pretty incompetent in TFA… in fact the whole movie is kinda based around that! If he wasn't we'd have a peaceful republic with Jedi everywhere.

Kylo Ren is living proof of Luke's failure.

Too bad... I really liked the moment when Jacen Solo totally powned him ;)

It's also interesting to me that in this discussion the characters are being painted as either too good at everything, or bad at everything. Very binary.

I don't think that's what Durandal was saying.

You asked who is incompetent. Finn definitely is. Poe isn't. Kylo Ren for sure is. He can't outforce someone who knows nothing about the force. He can't handle himself publicly. Rey isn't. Han is. He can barely run his own ship, and for a smuggler, he sure gets caught a lot. Leia is. BB is.

It's fine to disagree, but I think you went too far the other way.

I think you and I have very different ideas of what "incompetent" means :)

Han is. He can barely run his own ship, and for a smuggler, he sure gets caught a lot.

I've made the argument before, whether here or somewhere else . . .

Han is a BAD smuggler, period. We've literally never seen him be good at it. When we first met him, he had just botched a job so badly (or it's just one of so many times he's done so) that he has bounty hunters after him because Jabba's tired of dealing with him. I'm not sure where anyone got the impression that Han Solo is a bad ass smuggler, because it's the exact opposite of the impression I always got from him in A New Hope. He's a great pilot, but a slightly dumb and incompetent smuggler.

Han is. He can barely run his own ship, and for a smuggler, he sure gets caught a lot.

I've made the argument before, whether here or somewhere else . . .

Han is a BAD smuggler, period. We've literally never seen him be good at it. When we first met him, he had just botched a job so badly (or it's just one of so many times he's done so) that he has bounty hunters after him because Jabba's tired of dealing with him. I'm not sure where anyone got the impression that Han Solo is a bad ass smuggler, because it's the exact opposite of the impression I always got from him in A New Hope. He's a great pilot, but a slightly dumb and incompetent smuggler.

If watching Narcos has taught me anything, it's that when drug lords or drug pushers make a mistake, it's usually the smuggler who pays the price first ;)

If watching Narcos has taught me anything, it's that when drug lords or drug pushers make a mistake, it's usually the smuggler who pays the price first ;)

That's probably true.

I just like Han Solo so much more as a character if he's actually a bumbling idiot of a smuggler that gets by on his piloting skill and a bit of luck, always scraping the bottom of the barrel. He's been built up to be this mythical pilot and smuggler, and that's a much less interesting character to me.

My first grown-up chapter books were Thrawn Trilogy, Shadows, Truce at Bakara, and my favorites, the X-Wing novels. They are so hard-wired into my brain that they'll always be canon. Dark Forces and Kyle, Knights of the Old Republic... All canon!

Because the only canon that matters is what stories resonate with you. And hell, this stuff WAS canon for twenty years (and they're still making new TMG ships based on them). If something WAS canon and then it isn't, then "canonicity" is worthless.

So in forty years, when Commonwealth Creative Studios buys Disney, they may say Rogue One isn't canon, and make new things. Again. And the cycle will repeat. :)

My first grown-up chapter books were Thrawn Trilogy

This was a good one, and really stood out to me as well.

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I never really noticed, but I'm pretty sure even the EU backs you up.

Mind you, he is one hell of a pilot, VERY good at reading people (and space-poker [sabacc?], by extension), pretty clever mechanic and overall lucky as fuck, but not once can I recall him mentioning a smooth smuggling mission.

Finn is a Stormtrooper, who pretty much loses his fights against all the other stormtroopers, can't seem to really contribute anything to the team (even his idea of breaking into the base is partially a lie) and is pegged by his superiors as a flake from the very first moment. His plan to escape the First Order is woefully inept and is only successful because Plot Reasons. He didn't even have to disable the tractor beams that grounded the falcon in the first movie.

How did he even get past stormtrooper quality control?
In 99% of the scenes he's in, he's there to make Rei look good. Would it kill the script writers to have him use any of his insider knowledge of the first order and stormtrooper protocol to help? Or to not be terrible at everything?

Ford at least finds the Falcon, tends to hit the people he shoots at, lands the Falcon with a crazy maneuver that no one apparently thinks possible, and gets good lines throughout (like the trash compactor one). When he's not shooting stormtroopers or his son, it is actually because he's having a character development moment.

Yes, Poe gets a great background scene where he shoots down tie fighters, and another one later that is predictable. It's too bad those scenes are pretty much just background filler to the main action that you know he'll live through because every time we see him the movie screams "ACE PILOT".

Tempertantrum Ren nearly loses to I don't know which end of the lightsaber is up Finn, then gets taken out by a novice who didn't know she had Jedi powers till 5 minutes ago. He kills his dad for no discernible reason other then Gollum told him to. He acts like a 4 year old angry about not getting dessert. At no time did I find him scary or intimidating.

The first order blows up random planets we know nothing about, know no one on, and don't care about. The fact that they have a giant plant deathstar and big star destroyers makes the Rebellion's disarmament look even stupider.

Yeah, pretty much incompetence everywhere.

How did he even get past stormtrooper quality control?
In 99% of the scenes he's in, he's there to make Rei look good. Would it kill the script writers to have him use any of his insider knowledge of the first order and stormtrooper protocol to help? Or to not be terrible at everything?

And in the official EU stuff leading up to The Force Awakens, Finn is actually an elite Stormtrooper--one of the best of the best. Which, barring his incompetence, doesn't make sense given how he reacts to apparently his first battle at the beginning of the movie. The film sets him up as a greenhorn, but the official canon tries to make him the exact opposite and it doesn't line up.

Why? Thrawn's menace was his competence. Everything he did seemed part of a plan, well thought out, and implemented well. It made his defeat even more significant because the main characters really had to work to defeat him.

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I don't think it was a great line, but I also don't think it was terrible. it was delivered in a chunky way and it sounds like someone trying too hard to sound like Whedon in their writing.

I just picture Mal Reynolds delivering that line and it works. It's still not a great line, but Fillion could probably sell it.

https://youtu.be/NuNvCOUy1Ts?t=422

... I actually just NOW watched the trailer, with low expectations I might add - you may remember my mixed feelings about Ep. VII, plus this discussion...

And that Star Destroyer was 100% perfect. I actually opened my eyes and sat forward, trying to figure out if it was an amazing model or what. It was surreal. Like 1977 come again in high-def.

I was scared of all the "real" and "gritty" words I had heard thrown around, but it looks more like A New Hope to me than anything in Ep. VII. And I liked the Grand Moff guy's cape and Forest Whittatker adds emotional weight to everything he's in... Cool!

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... I actually just NOW watched the trailer, with low expectations I might add - you may remember my mixed feelings about Ep. VII, plus this discussion...

And that Star Destroyer was 100% perfect. I actually opened my eyes and sat forward, trying to figure out if it was an amazing model or what. It was surreal. Like 1977 come again in high-def.

I was scared of all the "real" and "gritty" words I had heard thrown around, but it looks more like A New Hope to me than anything in Ep. VII. And I liked the Grand Moff guy's cape and Forest Whittatker adds emotional weight to everything he's in... Cool!

I really enjoyed Episode VII a lot, but I get what you're saying, and I agree. This just visually looks incredible, and that shot of the Star Destroyer alone is enough to sell me a ticket.

... I actually just NOW watched the trailer, with low expectations I might add - you may remember my mixed feelings about Ep. VII, plus this discussion...

And that Star Destroyer was 100% perfect. I actually opened my eyes and sat forward, trying to figure out if it was an amazing model or what. It was surreal. Like 1977 come again in high-def.

I was scared of all the "real" and "gritty" words I had heard thrown around, but it looks more like A New Hope to me than anything in Ep. VII. And I liked the Grand Moff guy's cape and Forest Whittatker adds emotional weight to everything he's in... Cool!

I really enjoyed Episode VII a lot, but I get what you're saying, and I agree. This just visually looks incredible, and that shot of the Star Destroyer alone is enough to sell me a ticket.

Reading my post again, it sounds like I was trashing VII's art direction there, but I actually thought a lot of the designs and colors were great, especially in the set design. It felt like a mix of the originals and the prequels. This trailer is just THAT much better, like microscopically close to the originals in some ways - at least so far. To say in another way: Ep VII got a lot of the broader strokes right bust missed some of the little nuances that define the "Star Wars" visual language. This trailer seemed to showcase some of those nuances. :)

I'm actually not excited by that stuff. I think the new movie relied too heavily on the nostalgia for the 1970s and failed to innovate, which is something I really liked in the prequels.

Obviously, this movie is set between episode three and four, and so it makes sense to make the stuff look exactly like the stuff in Star Wars, but I hope it doesn't push that too hard.

I'm actually not excited by that stuff. I think the new movie relied too heavily on the nostalgia for the 1970s and failed to innovate, which is something I really liked in the prequels.

Obviously, this movie is set between episode three and four, and so it makes sense to make the stuff look exactly like the stuff in Star Wars, but I hope it doesn't push that too hard.

I completely agree in terms of VII, but in that case its not just the art direction that reuses New Hope and Jedi out of nostalgia - its factions and plot do too. That's the part I find distracting. It's cool that the X-wings are based on Ralph McQuarrie's original concepts; it's not cool that they keep flying down trenches on Death Stars 3 out of 4 films.

Rogue One, on the other hand, looks to be telling a different kind of Star Wars story while nailing the art direction of its setting perfectly.

(I don't know if hoping for innovation is a great idea with Star Wars anymore. Heck, even A New Hope is a based on 30's and 40's serials, french sci-fi comics, and fantasy archetypes! :) The Prequels DID do new things, which I appreciated, but it did them with little charisma and...well, acting. I have a feeling trending audience opinions and the general stigma attached to the prequels will mean Disney wont let an experiment like that happen again, which is sad. The best I can hope for now is a story driven by the characters and their emotions. So I don't think we'll ever get another Star Wars or even a Phantom Menace, but on the bright side, I think it's still possible to get more Empire Strikes Backs.)