When the game first came out, I played through the "story" (if you could call it that) using a borrowed copy of the game. I didn't purchase the game at the time because I'm of the belief the best way to vote is with one's wallet.

Things seem to have improved since launch and it seems closer to being a complete game now. Is Destiny worth purchasing this late in time, keeping in mind I've already played the OG story? I hear a lot of year-one content is obsolete now, due to higher light levels and whatnot. Will things "make sense" or has some of the explanatory content (what little there was to begin with) been made obsolete? How many raids are still worthwhile? On what other sorts of things will I be missing out? Apparently, I already missed sparrow racing. :(

Also, do we know yet if there will be any more paid DLC (aside from microtransactions)? It's already been demonstrated that not purchasing the paid DLC makes the existing content more or less pointless; I don't want to be in the position of deciding between shelling out more money and giving up the game.

I realize this is a fan forum, so there's bound to be some bias, but I'm still hoping to get some insight. Thanks.

If you'renot planning on playing with friends, or looking for general online gaming, it's okay, but pretty hit and miss.

It's great as a shared experience. =)

I realize this is a fan forum, so there's bound to be some bias, but I'm still hoping to get some insight. Thanks.

The story is completely restructured as a series of quest lines, with things being in completely different orders now. It will make 'sense' though.

The end game content such as the raids is absolutely worth it 100x over. However, the problem is that pretty much everyone knows how to do them now, so you lose the sense of discovery. Blind raiding I think is pretty important for maximum enjoyment.

http://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=92200

It'll still be cool, just not nearly as cool.

When the game first came out, I played through the "story" (if you could call it that) using a borrowed copy of the game. I didn't purchase the game at the time because I'm of the belief the best way to vote is with one's wallet.

Things seem to have improved since launch and it seems closer to being a complete game now. Is Destiny worth purchasing this late in time, keeping in mind I've already played the OG story? I hear a lot of year-one content is obsolete now, due to higher light levels and whatnot. Will things "make sense" or has some of the explanatory content (what little there was to begin with) been made obsolete? How many raids are still worthwhile? On what other sorts of things will I be missing out? Apparently, I already missed sparrow racing. :(

Also, do we know yet if there will be any more paid DLC (aside from microtransactions)? It's already been demonstrated that not purchasing the paid DLC makes the existing content more or less pointless; I don't want to be in the position of deciding between shelling out more money and giving up the game.

I realize this is a fan forum, so there's bound to be some bias, but I'm still hoping to get some insight. Thanks.

I would say right now, that it is not. The story content added by DLC isn't anything spectacular and is woefully short.

The raids and strikes are still fun, but get repetitive fast.

You didn't mention PvP, so I'm not sure if you have any interest in it but that has a little more life in it.

YMMV of course.

I expect the next actual game to be better.

Yeah, I'd be playing with some friends. In fact, that's the only reason I'm considering it. Good to know that makes it better.

The story is completely restructured as a series of quest lines, with things being in completely different orders now. It will make 'sense' though.

Hmm, interesting. Sounds like it isn't a mess, which is what I mostly care about.

The end game content such as the raids is absolutely worth it 100x over. However, the problem is that pretty much everyone knows how to do them now, so you lose the sense of discovery. Blind raiding I think is pretty important for maximum enjoyment.

http://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=92200

It'll still be cool, just not nearly as cool.

That's something I hadn't considered. It'd be nearly impossible at this point to find 5 other newbies for a raid, so I guess I'll have to come to terms with this being one of those things I gave up by waiting.

Thanks for the comments.

Yeah, I'd be playing with some friends. In fact, that's the only reason I'm considering it. Good to know that makes it better.

As you said, being a fan forum an all, there's bias, but I truly believe that with a good group of friends, Destiny is some of the most fun you can have in video games. You don't even have to do the Raid or high-level end game stuff. Just screwing around a killing things in patrol, knocking out bounties, is incredibly fun with like-minded friends.

It would have been better to get Destiny right when the Taken King was released, just because the excitement was high and everyone was having a collective experience of discovery. That's largely gone now, with people cruising through the Raid and the strikes. But even so, it's a fun game to kill aliens in with your buddies.

If you decide to get it, throw up your Gamertag or PSN ID and we'll jump in with you. Many of the folks here are still incredibly active in Destiny--more often than not if I've got ten friends online, eight or nine of them are playing Destiny.

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I would say right now, that it is not. The story content added by DLC isn't anything spectacular and is woefully short.

Thanks, that's good to know. I had been hearing about how 'big' TTK was (or at least how big its price tag was), but I was fuzzy on how much of that was story content.

The raids and strikes are still fun, but get repetitive fast.

Yeah, I imagine the strikes could get repetitive really fast. I think it'd take some time before the raids seem as repetitive, but useful to know that even those get stale at some point.

You didn't mention PvP, so I'm not sure if you have any interest in it but that has a little more life in it.

Oh right, PvP. It hadn't crossed my mind as part of my initial consideration, but I'd definitely be playing it, so I'm glad to hear it's still populous.

I expect the next actual game to be better.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to Bungie applying all of the lessons they learned to the next game. I'm cautiously optimistic that it'll be a much better release-day purchase.

Considering you can get The Taken King Legendary for ~$40, I would say it's absolutely worth it. That means the original game, The Dark Below, and House of Wolves, plus The Taken King. Grinding is at the lowest it's ever been, tons of content (especially if you only played the original game). Improved story line in The Taken King, and lots of people currently playing.

To answer your other question: there will be a paid DLC expansion in September, though we have no idea if it's planned to be on a House of Wolves level release, or a The Taken King level release (I'm leaning more towards HoW).

Yeah... discovery seems to be the consensus about what I've given up the most of, which does make me a bit sad. But I agree there still appears to be plenty of potential for fun with friends. Thanks.

Considering you can get The Taken King Legendary for ~$40, I would say it's absolutely worth it. That means the original game, The Dark Below, and House of Wolves, plus The Taken King. Grinding is at the lowest it's ever been, tons of content (especially if you only played the original game). Improved story line in The Taken King, and lots of people currently playing.

To answer your other question: there will be a paid DLC expansion in September, though we have no idea if it's planned to be on a House of Wolves level release, or a The Taken King level release (I'm leaning more towards HoW).

Yep, the lower price for the all-inclusive* package is one of the reasons I'm considering it. It's $36 on Deals with Gold this week, which is actually what prompted this thread.

That's really good to know about the future planned DLC, even if the size of it is currently unknown. Thanks!

* For the content released up to this point in time.

If you didn't like it then, I don't think you'll like it now.

I agree.

Did you like shooting the guns? Using your supers? Running and jumping? Exploring the game world?

I would say right now, that it is not. The story content added by DLC isn't anything spectacular and is woefully short.

Thanks, that's good to know. I had been hearing about how 'big' TTK was (or at least how big its price tag was), but I was fuzzy on how much of that was story content.

The raids and strikes are still fun, but get repetitive fast.

Yeah, I imagine the strikes could get repetitive really fast. I think it'd take some time before the raids seem as repetitive, but useful to know that even those get stale at some point.

You didn't mention PvP, so I'm not sure if you have any interest in it but that has a little more life in it.

Oh right, PvP. It hadn't crossed my mind as part of my initial consideration, but I'd definitely be playing it, so I'm glad to hear it's still populous.

I expect the next actual game to be better.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to Bungie applying all of the lessons they learned to the next game. I'm cautiously optimistic that it'll be a much better release-day purchase.

I was looking forward to bungie applying their last 20 years of lessons learned to this one, but that didn't happen.

Anyway, I'd say that base model Destiny is worth about $15. Your real mileage is coming from TTK, which is pretty great, so if you're able to get Destiny + The Taken King for $40 or $50, you'll get your money's worth. Just know that the endgame (after you've beaten the raids once) is very, very repetitive and also quite frustratingly grindy. And the PvP has the best feel with the worst netcode, so - again - it's very frustrating. This game is to us what hades is to Tantalus.

When the game first came out, I played through the "story" (if you could call it that) using a borrowed copy of the game. I didn't purchase the game at the time because I'm of the belief the best way to vote is with one's wallet.

Things seem to have improved since launch and it seems closer to being a complete game now. Is Destiny worth purchasing this late in time, keeping in mind I've already played the OG story? I hear a lot of year-one content is obsolete now, due to higher light levels and whatnot. Will things "make sense" or has some of the explanatory content (what little there was to begin with) been made obsolete? How many raids are still worthwhile? On what other sorts of things will I be missing out? Apparently, I already missed sparrow racing. :(

Also, do we know yet if there will be any more paid DLC (aside from microtransactions)? It's already been demonstrated that not purchasing the paid DLC makes the existing content more or less pointless; I don't want to be in the position of deciding between shelling out more money and giving up the game.

I realize this is a fan forum, so there's bound to be some bias, but I'm still hoping to get some insight. Thanks.

I would say right now, that it is not. The story content added by DLC isn't anything spectacular and is woefully short.

The raids and strikes are still fun, but get repetitive fast.

You didn't mention PvP, so I'm not sure if you have any interest in it but that has a little more life in it.

YMMV of course.

I expect the next actual game to be better.

YMMV indeed. I don't think the story content added by TTK is woefully short. The raid, for instance, is much bigger than previous raids. The quest system, and improvements to the so-called grind, make it a different game than it was at release, and that's what your question was, right, comparing it to Destiny at release? It's a different (and better) game now.

I agree with other posters, though--the game was worth it at launch. Bungie nailed the gameplay, and the gameplay is the thing. Destiny didn't deliver in some ways that I'd come to expect Bungie games to deliver, but it still delivers the best co-op experience I've ever had. If that's not your thing, and you're looking for an engrossing single-player experience, play Reach. (I played a level the other night on a whim, and I'm convinced, it's the best game overall that Bungie has released. It should be remembered though, as the culmination of everything Bungie learned about making Halo games. They're still learning to make Destiny.) Destiny delivers a different experience, and despite its shortcomings, I've never considered it to be not worth buying.

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There is definitely a lack of content in the endgame, but that doesn't take away from how the game plays. Which is well worth the price, IMO. I'd rather go do patrols for an hour in Destiny than play through the story in most other games.

I was looking forward to bungie applying their last 20 years of lessons learned to this one, but that didn't happen.

I was, too. But I realized (some point after Destiny launched) that Bungie's no longer the same company. Many of the people who worked there during/before the Halo days are gone and took their knowledge with them, unfortunately. I'm hoping the Destiny team has now learned the ropes. Time will tell.

Anyway, I'd say that base model Destiny is worth about $15. Your real mileage is coming from TTK, which is pretty great, so if you're able to get Destiny + The Taken King for $40 or $50, you'll get your money's worth. Just know that the endgame (after you've beaten the raids once) is very, very repetitive and also quite frustratingly grindy. And the PvP has the best feel with the worst netcode, so - again - it's very frustrating. This game is to us what hades is to Tantalus.

Yeah, I'd be getting the complete set. It's a shame the VoG was rendered pointless, meaning I'd get to the repetitive endgame that much faster. Thanks for pointing out how the poor netcode affects PvP. I had heard plenty of complaints about it last year, but had figured it would've been fixed by now. Some quick googling seems to agree with you. :-\

If you didn't like it then, I don't think you'll like it now.

My two largest problems with the game at launch were the lack of content, especially from a story perspective, and how much grinding there was. It seems both of those things have been improved (albeit not entirely fixed), which is why I'm considering it now.

I loved the core FPS mechanics of the game, even at launch. Controlling the character felt/feels very smooth and natural. But a fun-to-control game isn't necessarily the same as a fun-to-play game. I'm trying to figure out if Destiny is now both or still only the former.

I'll reiterate something I said earlier, but more specifically. If you are concerned about those things, don't, under any circumstances, buy this game. Seriously. If you didn't want to buy it while playing it at first, none of the changes will have made it worthwhile.

The current quests are more grindy than at launch. TTK added a lot of story, but at the expense of more grinding and built in wait periods. Some things have been improved, but they're quality of life stuff, like turning in bounties in orbit, none of the fundamentals of the game have been modified, and the things you're upset about are now worse than when you last played. The crucible is now basically a science, so connection issues affect performance much more than they did at the beginning when people sucked.

Except for upgrade materials. Those are better.

If it makes you feel better, doing the new raid blind was one of my least favorite experiences in Destiny, and I much preferred being guided through.

YMMV indeed. I don't think the story content added by TTK is woefully short. The raid, for instance, is much bigger than previous raids. The quest system, and improvements to the so-called grind, make it a different game than it was at release, and that's what your question was, right, comparing it to Destiny at release? It's a different (and better) game now.

Yep, comparing it to Destiny at release was a big part of my question. It was much, much more than a "so-called" grind to me. So even though it's been improved, I'm trying to figure out if it's actually at an acceptable level now. It's hard for me to relate when people say Destiny wasn't even that grindy to begin with.

I agree with other posters, though--the game was worth it at launch. Bungie nailed the gameplay, and the gameplay is the thing. Destiny didn't deliver in some ways that I'd come to expect Bungie games to deliver, but it still delivers the best co-op experience I've ever had. If that's not your thing, and you're looking for an engrossing single-player experience, play Reach. (I played a level the other night on a whim, and I'm convinced, it's the best game overall that Bungie has released. It should be remembered though, as the culmination of everything Bungie learned about making Halo games. They're still learning to make Destiny.) Destiny delivers a different experience, and despite its shortcomings, I've never considered it to be not worth buying.

That's interesting to me that you like Reach / the Reach campaign so much. It was my least favorite of the Bungie Halo games (still miles better than Halo 4/5, though). I do very much agree with your point that they're still learning to make Destiny, which is why trying to figure out the current state of things.

It's clear to me that you and I look for different things when considering if a game "worth it". So even though I can't really relate to your post, I appreciate the input nonetheless. :)

I was looking forward to bungie applying their last 20 years of lessons learned to this one, but that didn't happen.

I was, too. But I realized (some point after Destiny launched) that Bungie's no longer the same company. Many of the people who worked there during/before the Halo days are gone and took their knowledge with them, unfortunately. I'm hoping the Destiny team has now learned the ropes. Time will tell.

Anyway, I'd say that base model Destiny is worth about $15. Your real mileage is coming from TTK, which is pretty great, so if you're able to get Destiny + The Taken King for $40 or $50, you'll get your money's worth. Just know that the endgame (after you've beaten the raids once) is very, very repetitive and also quite frustratingly grindy. And the PvP has the best feel with the worst netcode, so - again - it's very frustrating. This game is to us what hades is to Tantalus.

Yeah, I'd be getting the complete set. It's a shame the VoG was rendered pointless, meaning I'd get to the repetitive endgame that much faster. Thanks for pointing out how the poor netcode affects PvP. I had heard plenty of complaints about it last year, but had figured it would've been fixed by now. Some quick googling seems to agree with you. :-\

I will offer this anecdote: Since the update, the only lag I've noticed has been during one trials match where two players on the enemy team were clearly cheating. So it's gotten better. The real test will be the upcoming Iron Banner, which is historically the laggiest part of the game.

That's interesting to me that you like Reach / the Reach campaign so much. It was my least favorite of the Bungie Halo games (still miles better than Halo 4/5, though). I do very much agree with your point that they're still learning to make Destiny, which is why trying to figure out the current state of things.

Without trying to derail the thread too much, I agree with your assessment of Reach. Everything about the single player campaign just feels so... bland to me. It's not awful, not even bad, but just depressingly unspectacular. For me, it really was a wake-up call that replacing certain key members of the development team can seriously affect a product's quality.

On that point, the team that has undoubtedly started making "Des2ny" will be a fairly different group of people from the one that started out making the original "Destiny"... and that's the thing that makes me most curious about it (rather then any narrative hooks).

If it makes you feel better, doing the new raid blind was one of my least favorite experiences in Destiny, and I much preferred being guided through.

It was by far my favorite experience in Destiny. Actually, SRL came close, but other than that, by far.

Without trying to derail the thread too much, I agree with your assessment of Reach. Everything about the single player campaign just feels so... bland to me. It's not awful, not even bad, but just depressingly unspectacular. For me, it really was a wake-up call that replacing certain key members of the development team can seriously affect a product's quality.

That's so strange. Reach is my favorite Halo campaign, except for maybe the first one. Reach is definitely my favorite Halo game overall, and possibly my favorite Bungie game.

It's always interesting to see how opinions within the community differ, even amongst people that are all arguably fans of the same things.

But I'm pretty sure I was unimpressed at the time.

Thanks for the anecdote. It's hard to find information about about any netcode changes made in the April update, but I did find some stuff about patches in January and March. I wonder if those things + the April update resulted in things being a lot better.

I'll reiterate something I said earlier, but more specifically. If you are concerned about those things, don't, under any circumstances, buy this game. Seriously. If you didn't want to buy it while playing it at first, none of the changes will have made it worthwhile.

The current quests are more grindy than at launch. TTK added a lot of story, but at the expense of more grinding and built in wait periods. Some things have been improved, but they're quality of life stuff, like turning in bounties in orbit, none of the fundamentals of the game have been modified, and the things you're upset about are now worse than when you last played. The crucible is now basically a science, so connection issues affect performance much more than they did at the beginning when people sucked.

Except for upgrade materials. Those are better.

This post speaks to me -- thanks for taking the time to spell it out. As a player of the social playlists in Halo, I really don't want my PvP experience to be work, so I'm glad you mentioned it being more like a science. It's also a shame to hear most of the improvements haven't been directly to the fundamentals. I guess that would be much more difficult for them to change. Maybe there's hope for Destiny 2.

If it makes you feel better, doing the new raid blind was one of my least favorite experiences in Destiny, and I much preferred being guided through.

This is the first time I've heard somebody say that, so it does give me a bit of hope. I can't really predict which I would like more, but knowing that there are people on both sides makes me less worried about it.

If it makes you feel better, doing the new raid blind was one of my least favorite experiences in Destiny, and I much preferred being guided through.

This is the first time I've heard somebody say that, so it does give me a bit of hope. I can't really predict which I would like more, but knowing that there are people on both sides makes me less worried about it.

My first raid was the Vault of Glass about seven or eight months after Destiny's launch. I did it with a bunch of the guys here, and it's right up there with my blind King's Fall as one of my favorite Destiny experiences. The folks here are amazing to raid with, even if you're the only one that doesn't have a clue. They explained only what when I wanted, and were content to let me fool around cluelessly for as a long as I felt like (and Blackstar was kind enough to let me take the lead for the jumping puzzle to hilarious effect).

Being led through a raid can be nearly as fun as doing it blind.

If you didn't like it then, I don't think you'll like it now.

My two largest problems with the game at launch were the lack of content, especially from a story perspective, and how much grinding there was. It seems both of those things have been improved (albeit not entirely fixed), which is why I'm considering it now.

I loved the core FPS mechanics of the game, even at launch. Controlling the character felt/feels very smooth and natural. But a fun-to-control game isn't necessarily the same as a fun-to-play game. I'm trying to figure out if Destiny is now both or still only the former.

House of Wolves and Taken King both improved the game from a story perspective. TK almost has a Halo-like progression with decent cutscenes.

Considering that right now $36 gets you not only the base game you've already played (but is required) but also Dark Below and its raid, House of Wolves, Taken King and its raid including the new location (Dreadnought) and now the April Update with the new version of Prison of Elders arena battles from HoW... I'd say it's good value for money if you liked Destiny but just thought that $60 for the game and $20 for expansions was not enough bang for the buck.

Blackstar is always good for a minute long lol every single raid.

Halo
ODST
Halo 2
Halo 3
Halo 5
Halo: Spartan Assault
Halo Wars
Halo: Spartan Strike
Halo Reach
Halo 4

And multiplayer

Halo 2
Halo
Halo 3 beta
Halo 3
Halo Reach

Halo: Reach, to me, was just boring and irritating. Weird story element after weird story element took its toll, and I just became annoyed while playing it. Despite having a totally boss space mission and flying mission, which I would put up there with the best moments in the series, the rest of it was just blah. The game seemed like it tried too hard to be modern while keeping the old feel. Halo 4 did the same thing. They just weren't my types of games.

Halo 1, 2, and 3 are classic 2001-2008 shooters. They play like they're from that time period, and they are second to none in that regard. Reach and Halo 4 tried to update the feel of those with modern FPS trends, and the blend wasn't good for me. Halo 5 updated it just enough to feel smooth. It's a really fun campaign, and, despite the story being a little wonky, I think it's great to play because they really did update the gameplay. Clamber, 60 FPS, sprint melee attacks, all that junk's in there, along with modern feeling gunplay reminiscent of Halo.

Halo
ODST
Halo 2
Halo 3
Halo 5
Halo: Spartan Assault
Halo Wars
Halo: Spartan Strike
Halo Reach
Halo 4

And multiplayer

Halo 2
Halo
Halo 3 beta
Halo 3
Halo Reach

Halo: Reach, to me, was just boring and irritating. Weird story element after weird story element took its toll, and I just became annoyed while playing it. Despite having a totally boss space mission and flying mission, which I would put up there with the best moments in the series, the rest of it was just blah. The game seemed like it tried too hard to be modern while keeping the old feel. Halo 4 did the same thing. They just weren't my types of games.

So is your opinion based on story, gameplay, or both? I thought the story for Reach was good enough, if not great, but I loved the gameplay. And I think it has really great level design, which is what I love about it. I liked the armor abilities, and I think it's my favorite Halo, aesthetically. It still looks like Halo, but it's a little more . . . I'm honestly not sure what the right descriptor is there, but it's got something special, I think in terms of art design.

Halo 1, 2, and 3 are classic 2001-2008 shooters. They play like they're from that time period, and they are second to none in that regard. Reach and Halo 4 tried to update the feel of those with modern FPS trends, and the blend wasn't good for me. Halo 5 updated it just enough to feel smooth. It's a really fun campaign, and, despite the story being a little wonky, I think it's great to play because they really did update the gameplay. Clamber, 60 FPS, sprint melee attacks, all that junk's in there, along with modern feeling gunplay reminiscent of Halo.

I really love all of the Halo campaigns (to various degrees). Even Halo 4 had it's moments. Halo 5, though, is really on another level, I think. Taking story out of the equation (I found the story to be okay, but not amazing), I think they have done an absolutely incredible job bringing Halo forward into the new era. It still undoubtedly feels like Halo, but it's so smooth, and the new movement abilities initially looked dumb and sort of gimmicky, but they absolutely work and make movement and level traversal really great. The level design is pretty good, for the most part, if not quite on par with the best Bungie gave us. Their vehicle segments in particular are pretty lackluster, I think, but overall I really enjoyed the Halo 5 campaign and can't wait for Halo 6.

Halo
ODST
Halo 2
Halo 3
Halo 5
Halo: Spartan Assault
Halo Wars
Halo: Spartan Strike
Halo Reach
Halo 4

And multiplayer

Halo 2
Halo
Halo 3 beta
Halo 3
Halo Reach

Halo: Reach, to me, was just boring and irritating. Weird story element after weird story element took its toll, and I just became annoyed while playing it. Despite having a totally boss space mission and flying mission, which I would put up there with the best moments in the series, the rest of it was just blah. The game seemed like it tried too hard to be modern while keeping the old feel. Halo 4 did the same thing. They just weren't my types of games.

So is your opinion based on story, gameplay, or both? I thought the story for Reach was good enough, if not great, but I loved the gameplay. And I think it has really great level design, which is what I love about it. I liked the armor abilities, and I think it's my favorite Halo, aesthetically. It still looks like Halo, but it's a little more . . . I'm honestly not sure what the right descriptor is there, but it's got something special, I think in terms of art design.

Both. Reach just really rubbed me the wrong way. I didn't like the levels. I was kind of frustrated finding a good spot to kill people in Reach. It forced me into playing a way I didn't like. In Halo, I usually go for slower engagement, but it was too difficult for me to play how I wanted. The thing Reach did better than the other Halos though, was textures. Halo 4 textured the hell out of everything to the point where it looked like you'd trip walking over a clean floor. Halo 3 was still a bit lame. Everything else, I didn't like. Armor abilities weren't fun to me, and again, the level design didn't sit well with me. The gameplay was meh, and the story felt like a personal attack.

Halo 1, 2, and 3 are classic 2001-2008 shooters. They play like they're from that time period, and they are second to none in that regard. Reach and Halo 4 tried to update the feel of those with modern FPS trends, and the blend wasn't good for me. Halo 5 updated it just enough to feel smooth. It's a really fun campaign, and, despite the story being a little wonky, I think it's great to play because they really did update the gameplay. Clamber, 60 FPS, sprint melee attacks, all that junk's in there, along with modern feeling gunplay reminiscent of Halo.

I really love all of the Halo campaigns (to various degrees). Even Halo 4 had it's moments. Halo 5, though, is really on another level, I think. Taking story out of the equation (I found the story to be okay, but not amazing), I think they have done an absolutely incredible job bringing Halo forward into the new era. It still undoubtedly feels like Halo, but it's so smooth, and the new movement abilities initially looked dumb and sort of gimmicky, but they absolutely work and make movement and level traversal really great. The level design is pretty good, for the most part, if not quite on par with the best Bungie gave us. Their vehicle segments in particular are pretty lackluster, I think, but overall I really enjoyed the Halo 5 campaign and can't wait for Halo 6.

Yeah, I found that to be the case as well. I didn't have fun on any Halo 5 vehicle missions, but running through sprint smacking people was dope. Seriously fun game.

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Halo: Reach, to me, was just boring and irritating. Weird story element after weird story element took its toll, and I just became annoyed while playing it. Despite having a totally boss space mission and flying mission, which I would put up there with the best moments in the series, the rest of it was just blah. The game seemed like it tried too hard to be modern while keeping the old feel. Halo 4 did the same thing. They just weren't my types of games.

So is your opinion based on story, gameplay, or both? I thought the story for Reach was good enough, if not great, but I loved the gameplay. And I think it has really great level design, which is what I love about it. I liked the armor abilities, and I think it's my favorite Halo, aesthetically. It still looks like Halo, but it's a little more . . . I'm honestly not sure what the right descriptor is there, but it's got something special, I think in terms of art design.

Both. Reach just really rubbed me the wrong way. I didn't like the levels. I was kind of frustrated finding a good spot to kill people in Reach. It forced me into playing a way I didn't like. In Halo, I usually go for slower engagement, but it was too difficult for me to play how I wanted.

It's funny, Reach is by far my favourite campaign (in terms of gameplay) specifically because I never felt cornered into a specific approach or playstyle. I like a challenge, so I always lay the Halo campaigns on Heroic or Legendary. While playing every other Halo campaign, I'd frequently hit points where I'd feel like the encounter was funnelling me down a specific path in order to get through it. Like there would be 1 specific way for me to get through alive, and if I didn't nail the plan perfectly I'd be screwed. "As soon as the door opens, I need to throw a sticky and kill that elite, then get to those rocks before the wraith blasts me, then... Oh, the wraith got me. Revert. Ok, door opens, throw sticky... Missed the elite. Revert..." etc. With Reach, I never got stuck in a loop like that. I always had options. I think the real trick was that the various encounter "arenas" were large enough that you always had space to pull back, rotate around, and try a different approach. In the other campaigns, you'd enter a room, a door would shut behind you, and you're stuck. Nowhere to pull back to if things don't go exactly as planned (especially 4... H4 was the worst in this regard).

Probably my favorite of all the halo games because of the combat. The whole game is designed to give you multiple ways to approach a situation. Take armor abilities for example. If you take sprint you can close with opponents quickly (great for assasinations), but if you chose the jetpack instead you can traverse the map in entirely different ways or use the jetpack to float above an opponent. Killing an opponent was also very strategic because of the shield system. You had to take down your opponents shields first to do any body damage (not quite the same in some of the later updates, but it still holds pretty true) and weapons that were good at removing shields were largely not very fast at killing. Thus the n00b combo - blast the shields with a charged plasma pistol, then swap to a magnum or dmr for the headshot. Or get a grenade close to them and finish them off with a headshot. Or headshot them with the sniper rifle. Or get close with a sword or shotgun. Or unload a full needler clip and watch them explode. :)

Or my favorite, unload a magnum at someone while they throw a grenade at you... if you hit the grenade it explodes in their face and then you headshot them.

The only reason to be concerned about the raids being worthwhile is if you're more concerned about loot than play experience, and even then if you hit the raid at the right point in your character's progression you can still get some fun loots from it.

For $36 you get 3 raids, oodles of strikes, the prison of elders, pvp, a fun story with TTK, and then all the Y1 story missions, oh, and lots of quests to do too.

The only reason to be concerned about the raids being worthwhile is if you're more concerned about loot than play experience, and even then if you hit the raid at the right point in your character's progression you can still get some fun loots from it.

We ran a full HM KF raid last night with a guy who'd never done HM before (he was 311 when we started). He was 318 when we killed Oryx.

It's a pretty lucrative couple of hours, no matter WHERE you are (well, if it's HM, you should be at least at 311 to begin, but 290 is fine for NM), but at lower levels in the range, it's super-lucrative.

Thanks for the anecdote. It's hard to find information about about any netcode changes made in the April update, but I did find some stuff about patches in January and March. I wonder if those things + the April update resulted in things being a lot better.

Kahzgul mostly plays Trials, which is worlds different (in most aspects) from other crucible modes.

In regular crucible, there's still lag - there's less cheating (I think), mostly because who the hell cares?, but if I play 5-10 games in a night, there'll be at least one in which someone with a seriously bad connection makes things wonky for everyone. It's rarely enough to ruin the game (unless you're really sensitive to that kind of thing - and some of the people I play with are), but it's definitely wonky.

I'm not even sure I could say it's really different from how it was 6 months ago, on average. (I see bigger swings in quality-of-game-life from the shifts from connection-based matchmaking to skill-based matchmaking and back than I do from the Damage Referee stuff., personally.)

This isn't really helpful to you in a 'It's better/worse/whatever than it used to be' way... I just wanted to make sure you understood that Kahzgul's anecdote probably applies more to Trials than to regular Crucible. ;)

Yeah, I went from 327 to 331 doing a full run on Tuesday (with the challenge). HM King's Fall is now definitely worth it from a progression standpoint.

Also, at higher light levels you can withstand more damage. Not a ton more, but it's definitely noticeable in certain instances. So the Oryx fight is slightly more forgiving, albeit still very team dependant.

I think he might have been referring to VoG and CE, but those raids are still a ton of fun even if they don't drop endgame relevant (PvE at least) gear.

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if you're more concerned about loot than play experience

I don't currently care about loot, but I am worried about Bungie's psychological tricks will trick me into caring (even if I'm aware it's happening). I'm only half joking.

House of Wolves and Taken King both improved the game from a story perspective. TK almost has a Halo-like progression with decent cutscenes.

Considering that right now $36 gets you not only the base game you've already played (but is required) but also Dark Below and its raid, House of Wolves, Taken King and its raid including the new location (Dreadnought) and now the April Update with the new version of Prison of Elders arena battles from HoW... I'd say it's good value for money if you liked Destiny but just thought that $60 for the game and $20 for expansions was not enough bang for the buck.

It sounds like enough content has been added to get a good bang-to-buck ratio now (because, yeah, that ratio was way too low for me in the beginning). I'm still worried about grind (and to a lesser extent, future DLC at full price).

Halo 3 beta
Halo 3

Ain't that the truth. Trip mines were so fun in the beta. (I agree with your whole MP ordering, too.)

This isn't really helpful to you in a 'It's better/worse/whatever than it used to be' way... I just wanted to make sure you understood that Kahzgul's anecdote probably applies more to Trials than to regular Crucible. ;)

...Don't you think that's a little bit presumptuous on your part?

I just did a cursory glance over at Kahzgul's service record, and while he plays a fair amount of Trials, there's plenty of Rift, Rumble, salvage, and all other manner of gametypes played in the last couple of months.

I mean, maybe through private conversations with him you've gotten the impression that that's all he plays, but it doesn't seem to be the case...?

This isn't really helpful to you in a 'It's better/worse/whatever than it used to be' way... I just wanted to make sure you understood that Kahzgul's anecdote probably applies more to Trials than to regular Crucible. ;)

...Don't you think that's a little bit presumptuous on your part?

I just did a cursory glance over at Kahzgul's service record, and while he plays a fair amount of Trials, there's plenty of Rift, Rumble, salvage, and all other manner of gametypes played in the last couple of months.

I mean, maybe through private conversations with him you've gotten the impression that that's all he plays, but it doesn't seem to be the case...?

It came from some misunderstandings the last time the topic of lag came up; I couldn't understand why his experience was so different than mine, and after some further discussion, it became clear that the biggest difference was that he was playing a lot of Trials, and I wasn't playing any.

I saw another post from him today suggesting that he's played a bunch of other gametypes - but that was posted after my followup.

Yep, it's presumptuous. Yep, I'm probably wrong. And yep, his experience is still significantly different than mine.

This isn't really helpful to you in a 'It's better/worse/whatever than it used to be' way... I just wanted to make sure you understood that Kahzgul's anecdote probably applies more to Trials than to regular Crucible. ;)

...Don't you think that's a little bit presumptuous on your part?

I just did a cursory glance over at Kahzgul's service record, and while he plays a fair amount of Trials, there's plenty of Rift, Rumble, salvage, and all other manner of gametypes played in the last couple of months.

I mean, maybe through private conversations with him you've gotten the impression that that's all he plays, but it doesn't seem to be the case...?

It came from some misunderstandings the last time the topic of lag came up; I couldn't understand why his experience was so different than mine, and after some further discussion, it became clear that the biggest difference was that he was playing a lot of Trials, and I wasn't playing any.

I saw another post from him today suggesting that he's played a bunch of other gametypes - but that was posted after my followup.

Yep, it's presumptuous. Yep, I'm probably wrong. And yep, his experience is still significantly different than mine.

Yeah, upon further inspection, it does appear that he plays more Trials than everything else put together, so I totally understand where you were coming from now.

It sounds like enough content has been added to get a good bang-to-buck ratio now (because, yeah, that ratio was way too low for me in the beginning). I'm still worried about grind (and to a lesser extent, future DLC at full price).

There is still plenty of "grind" in late-game Destiny, if you choose to look at that way (although it seems to keep getting better in that regard). But I think TTK is worth it, regardless. You can play through The Dark Below, House of Wolves, and Taken King content, do the King's Fall raid, and then quit and have gotten your money's worth, in my opinion. It's basically what I did, honestly, although I'm starting to pick it up and play again in the last week or so.

if you're more concerned about loot than play experience

I don't currently care about loot, but I am worried Bungie's psychological tricks will trick me into caring (even if I'm aware it's happening). I'm only half joking.

I totally hear ya. As I play I oscillate between chasing loot & doing things for fun. Some evenings it's one, other evenings it's the other. Sometimes the two are one and the same, and that's a great thing when they line up. Most recently we were speed running the Prison of Elders with Slycrel (he wanted to get some PoE only drops), and I had a LOT of fun trying trying different strategies and getting better & faster all while chatting . I will say this, I wish loot played a diminished role in Destiny, or at least a smaller skinner box (aka psychological tricks).

And I see I neglected to hit "Submit" on this post last week. heh. Might as well post it now.

YMMV indeed. I don't think the story content added by TTK is woefully short. The raid, for instance, is much bigger than previous raids. The quest system, and improvements to the so-called grind, make it a different game than it was at release, and that's what your question was, right, comparing it to Destiny at release? It's a different (and better) game now.

Yep, comparing it to Destiny at release was a big part of my question. It was much, much more than a "so-called" grind to me. So even though it's been improved, I'm trying to figure out if it's actually at an acceptable level now. It's hard for me to relate when people say Destiny wasn't even that grindy to begin with.

I'm of the opinion that Destiny is grindy only if you let it be. If I'm doing something I consider a grind (and I'm not getting paid for it or acquiring a new skill), I try to stop doing it. I don't consider grinds fun by definition. When I'm not having fun, I stop. If you borrowed a copy long enough to play the original story, and perhaps experience a bit of that first plateau in progression that existed in Destiny 1.0, congrats, you experienced what is generally agreed to be the worst version of Destiny. The narrative is much improved, and the plateaus in progression much shorter, unless you're one of those people who obsess over not being at max light. (I understand the drive to get there, but I don't relate to the desire to get there ASAP, especially since getting close is good enough for all practical purposes. If I don't get within spitting distance of 335 until the week before the fall expansion comes out, that's perfectly fine with me. I like Destiny better when I feel like I don't lose out when I put it down for a while. That's how I feel now.)

I agree with other posters, though--the game was worth it at launch. Bungie nailed the gameplay, and the gameplay is the thing. Destiny didn't deliver in some ways that I'd come to expect Bungie games to deliver, but it still delivers the best co-op experience I've ever had. If that's not your thing, and you're looking for an engrossing single-player experience, play Reach. (I played a level the other night on a whim, and I'm convinced, it's the best game overall that Bungie has released. It should be remembered though, as the culmination of everything Bungie learned about making Halo games. They're still learning to make Destiny.) Destiny delivers a different experience, and despite its shortcomings, I've never considered it to be not worth buying.

That's interesting to me that you like Reach / the Reach campaign so much. It was my least favorite of the Bungie Halo games (still miles better than Halo 4/5, though). I do very much agree with your point that they're still learning to make Destiny, which is why trying to figure out the current state of things.

And they've made a lot of progress. Let me be clear: I didn't say Reach had the best campaign. I said it was the best game overall. I think it is.

It's clear to me that you and I look for different things when considering if a game "worth it". So even though I can't really relate to your post, I appreciate the input nonetheless. :)

Yes, it's clear to me, too. I used to be a door-to-door salesman when I was young. I learned a lot about life, about people, and about what it means to be a good salesman. (One hint: a good salesman doesn't try to sell to people who don't need or want what they're selling.) I don't think you need or want Destiny. If you have to think about it this much, you shouldn't buy it. You seem to have little interest in the social aspects of the game, which says to me you're not interested in the aspects that make Destiny special. It's not another Halo. Based on your comments, I suspect you want it to be. (That's understandable. Many of us wanted it to be that.) Destiny is a living game best consumed with others, and you've already missed things you can't experience anymore. I think the range of experiences it offers currently is an incredible value for the price, but I don't know if I'd feel that way just based on it's single-player activities. Bungie has made a new game that probably doesn't align with your interests in the same way their older games did. It's fine to walk away.

YMMV indeed. I don't think the story content added by TTK is woefully short. The raid, for instance, is much bigger than previous raids. The quest system, and improvements to the so-called grind, make it a different game than it was at release, and that's what your question was, right, comparing it to Destiny at release? It's a different (and better) game now.

Yep, comparing it to Destiny at release was a big part of my question. It was much, much more than a "so-called" grind to me. So even though it's been improved, I'm trying to figure out if it's actually at an acceptable level now. It's hard for me to relate when people say Destiny wasn't even that grindy to begin with.

I'm of the opinion that Destiny is grindy only if you let it be. If I'm doing something I consider a grind (and I'm not getting paid for it or acquiring a new skill), I try to stop doing it. I don't consider grinds fun by definition. When I'm not having fun, I stop. If you borrowed a copy long enough to play the original story, and perhaps experience a bit of that first plateau in progression that existed in Destiny 1.0, congrats, you experienced what is generally agreed to be the worst version of Destiny. The narrative is much improved, and the plateaus in progression much shorter, unless you're one of those people who obsess over not being at max light. (I understand the drive to get there, but I don't relate to the desire to get there ASAP, especially since getting close is good enough for all practical purposes. If I don't get within spitting distance of 335 until the week before the fall expansion comes out, that's perfectly fine with me. I like Destiny better when I feel like I don't lose out when I put it down for a while. That's how I feel now.)

Check my heat-map:

Year 1 of Destiny, I was the first person here who had every single exotic and all characters at 30. I played 3-7 hours a day. I loved the grind, and once I had everything, I continued to play because I loved the game. In fact, I enjoyed it so much that I completely started over by buying it on Xbox, and then got all of those characters maxed out.

Year 2? I never hit 320 with any character, didn't get half of the new exotics, and post-update only play Destiny a handful of hours a week (the only three times that I played it the past couple of weeks were the HUDless Vault of glass (zero loot incentive), some CoO on Xbox, and last night's Oryx challenge and CotE (I only got on because of an invite). Do I enjoy Destiny less in Year 2? Not at all (heck, I'm even happier with my Warlocks post-nerfs), I just have zero desire to grind for anything. When I play it, I pop a 3-of-coins for luck, and focus on fun. The game is lots of fun on its own merits, and I haven't ever felt like I'm behind my friends (or like I can't participate in any event). I think the game is better for that, and while I'm still a huge fan of the grind, I know that most folks are probably not, so Destiny 1.0 was definitely a bad game for them, but I feel that the current Destiny is the ideal Destiny for them.

I agree with other posters, though--the game was worth it at launch. Bungie nailed the gameplay, and the gameplay is the thing. Destiny didn't deliver in some ways that I'd come to expect Bungie games to deliver, but it still delivers the best co-op experience I've ever had. If that's not your thing, and you're looking for an engrossing single-player experience, play Reach. (I played a level the other night on a whim, and I'm convinced, it's the best game overall that Bungie has released. It should be remembered though, as the culmination of everything Bungie learned about making Halo games. They're still learning to make Destiny.) Destiny delivers a different experience, and despite its shortcomings, I've never considered it to be not worth buying.

I loved Destiny at launch, but being a huge Warframe fan going in, all of Destiny's shortcomings have stood out like a sore arm, and have only gotten worse as WF has made significant improvements/additions by the month, while Destiny has taken far too long to get the wheels chugging. With that in mind, I've never found Destiny to be less than worth the price of admission, because the gameplay and social aspect are the main draws, and it does both extremely well (which is why we're happily running completely obsolete content for fun).
Above all else, Destiny is a game where you should hop on with a group of friends and have fun. If you go at it solo, you're going to have a bad time all around (just ask those lone wolves during Iron Banner's Rift games).

That's interesting to me that you like Reach / the Reach campaign so much. It was my least favorite of the Bungie Halo games (still miles better than Halo 4/5, though). I do very much agree with your point that they're still learning to make Destiny, which is why trying to figure out the current state of things.

And they've made a lot of progress. Let me be clear: I didn't say Reach had the best campaign. I said it was the best game overall. I think it is.

We all know that ODST was the best campaign, but I agree that Reach was the best package. Everything from the art to the Bnet integration was a huge and near-perfect package that nobody has quite been able to replicate.

It's clear to me that you and I look for different things when considering if a game "worth it". So even though I can't really relate to your post, I appreciate the input nonetheless. :)

Yes, it's clear to me, too. I used to be a door-to-door salesman when I was young. I learned a lot about life, about people, and about what it means to be a good salesman. (One hint: a good salesman doesn't try to sell to people who don't need or want what they're selling.) I don't think you need or want Destiny. If you have to think about it this much, you shouldn't buy it. You seem to have little interest in the social aspects of the game, which says to me you're not interested in the aspects that make Destiny special. It's not another Halo. Based on your comments, I suspect you want it to be. (That's understandable. Many of us wanted it to be that.) Destiny is a living game best consumed with others, and you've already missed things you can't experience anymore. I think the range of experiences it offers currently is an incredible value for the price, but I don't know if I'd feel that way just based on it's single-player activities. Bungie has made a new game that probably doesn't align with your interests in the same way their older games did. It's fine to walk away.

+1

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Year 2? I never hit 320 with any character, didn't get half of the new exotics, and post-update only play Destiny a handful of hours a week (the only three times that I played it the past couple of weeks were the HUDless Vault of glass (zero loot incentive), some CoO on Xbox, and last night's Oryx challenge and CotE (I only got on because of an invite).

The issue is that we have figured out the game systems. Back in year one, we simply didn't know how to play. Now we do. The element of discovery is gone. You can add more content, but so long as the game systems remain the same, we are already playing the game with a level of knowledge we didn't have year one, and skipping the discovery step. We've mastered the systems essentially, and are just playing through the content.

That is really the essence and fun of any game: learning how to play it.

The solution is unfortunately not adding new content. The solution is an entirely new game system. If Destiny 2 is simply a bunch more addons, you will have the same problem in year 3.

Year 2? I never hit 320 with any character, didn't get half of the new exotics, and post-update only play Destiny a handful of hours a week (the only three times that I played it the past couple of weeks were the HUDless Vault of glass (zero loot incentive), some CoO on Xbox, and last night's Oryx challenge and CotE (I only got on because of an invite).

The issue is that we have figured out the game systems. Back in year one, we simply didn't know how to play. Now we do. The element of discovery is gone. You can add more content, but so long as the game systems remain the same, we are already playing the game with a level of knowledge we didn't have year one, and skipping the discovery step. We've mastered the systems essentially, and are just playing through the content.

That is really the essence and fun of any game: learning how to play it.

The solution is unfortunately not adding new content. The solution is an entirely new game system. If Destiny 2 is simply a bunch more addons, you will have the same problem in year 3.

I personally don't consider playing less than several hours a day to be a problem that I want fixed.

Aren't you an advocate for finishing games and setting them down?

Aren't you an advocate for finishing games and setting them down?

When you master them, yes.

Yes, it's clear to me, too. I used to be a door-to-door salesman when I was young. I learned a lot about life, about people, and about what it means to be a good salesman. (One hint: a good salesman doesn't try to sell to people who don't need or want what they're selling.) I don't think you need or want Destiny. If you have to think about it this much, you shouldn't buy it. You seem to have little interest in the social aspects of the game, which says to me you're not interested in the aspects that make Destiny special. It's not another Halo. Based on your comments, I suspect you want it to be. (That's understandable. Many of us wanted it to be that.) Destiny is a living game best consumed with others, and you've already missed things you can't experience anymore. I think the range of experiences it offers currently is an incredible value for the price, but I don't know if I'd feel that way just based on it's single-player activities. Bungie has made a new game that probably doesn't align with your interests in the same way their older games did. It's fine to walk away.

This was very thoughtful and well said.