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PvP and Guns post patch. (Destiny)

by Kahzgul, Thursday, April 21, 2016, 21:54 (3231 days ago)

Let's talk about the actual game and not the implementation of it for a while. Forget "balance" or "tweaks" or even "lag." This post is to discuss how weapons behave today and what you're finding effective after the recent update. Let's focus on helping each other gear optimally for the upcoming Iron Clash of the Bannerans.

First, I've only played a few rounds since the patch. Two full Trials cards (and a couple of aborted attempts), 10ish rift games, a fantastic round of inferno rumble, some salvage, and some clash. Anyway, it feels like enough to get a baseline for what's working and what isn't right now, at least from the guns I have access to. This is not a complete list! It's just a list of guns I have actually used.

ARs
DoP / Arminus D: These remain the two best ARs. You can kill 2 people with a single mag and the TTK is absurdly low. Very short range, however. The "nerf" doesn't seem to have changed much at all for these guns.

Other ARs thoughts: Righteous VII, New Monarchy vendor roll. God. Damn. It's not the best AR archetype, but the roll is perfect. Perfect Balance, Counterweight, and some range enhancers make this a sexy as hell gun. If you want a new AR I recommend this guy. High damage low RoF ARs still kinda suck in PvP.

Hand Cannons:
Hawkmoon is the same as it was, but for some reason people think it got buffed. It didn't, really, as far as PvP is concerned. It's okay but not great.

I got a Stolen Pride from PoE41. This is the new TDYK. It's amazing. 3 shot kill if one shot is a headshot, fast RoF. Mine came with smallbore and zen moment and it smokes. Took a little getting used to (the sight is slightly too high) but once I did it cleans up quickly. It does enough damage that you can use it in close quarters like a cheap shotgun and melee + body shot for a kill. Easily the best non-thorn hand cannon I've used in year 2.

Scouts
MIDA is every bit as good as it ever was. "Nerf" my ass. This gun is amazing and, given the sniper nerfs, is probably better vs. snipers than it was pre-patch. Use with confidence.

Pulse Rifles:
I got a Final Duty from PoE41 and it's not bad, but it's not good either. It's a nirwen's mercy with slightly less stability and a smaller mag. Not worth using unless it's your only option.

Nirwen's is still good, but is no longer my top tier choice because...

Spare Change .25 is BACK! That's right, the Spare Change (and Lyumidia-D) are both super buffed to have tighter shot groupings where you can now get all 3 rounds from the burst to crit, making two-burst kills a reality again. Fantastic weapons, though damage falloff at longer ranges is more noticeable. Dust off those high impact pulse rifles and you'll be happy.

secondary weapons
The ammo change isn't good, imo, but it's the world we live in now.

Snipers: Defiance of Yasmin is now a top tier sniper and is much easier to get a solid roll on than 1KYS. No Land Beyond has come through not only unscathed, but basically buffed (since it appears to be unaffected by the added frames of scope-in animation), so if it's a gun you are capable of using, keep on using it. All your beloved close zoom scopes are kinda meh now, which means higher aim assist scopes are probably going to be in high demand. I don't buy it. The feel is a personal thing and you should use what you like.

Shotguns: Universal Remote is the best gun in the game now, IMO. Always starting with ammo means you'll be literally outgunning your opponents more often than not. Plus they fixed its range bug so what you see is actually what you get. I freaking love it. Buy yourself a year 2 version and go nuts! For other shotguns, range remains the primary stat to look for, but the lack of available ammo means you'll be facing UR or Invective more than anything else. Oh yeah, Lord of Wolves is back and holy crap is it ever awesome. This gun rocks in both PvP and PvE, dishing out boatloads of damage in short order. The range drop-off is real, though, and it will do zero damage (literally) outside of its range. But it does carry lots more ammo than your average shotty, which is a nice perk.

Fusions: I haven't found a fusion rifle I liked yet, but that's not to say that I haven't had my clock cleaned by one lately. These can now roll with armor piercing, making for a single shot that can clear a hallway. Year 2 pocket infinity is worth a look, as is Plan C. I've heard the FWC fusion rifle is good as well, but I haven't looked it over yet.

Sidearms: Dreg's Promise seeks now, which is interesting, but it just doesn't do enough damage per 3 round burst. Other sidearms are great, however. The vendor Conviction II from New Monarchy is a hell of a roll for those interested in getting their feet wet. It might actually be the platonic ideal of sidearm rolls. Bonus: You always spawn with sidearm ammo, so the new special ammo nerf won't really affect you.

Heavies
Truth is no longer the only rocket launcher worth using (which is good, since there are exotic primary and secondary weapons you may want to use now), though it's still the best one out there. Quillim's Terminus, however, remains tops despite the smaller ammo capacity. Cocoon is too strong of a perk to swap for anything else. Swords... are not great pvp weapons. Sorry.

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if you have any new or old guns that you think we should be aware of, post your thoughts!!! Thanks all!

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PvP and Guns post patch.

by bluerunner @, Music City, Thursday, April 21, 2016, 23:43 (3231 days ago) @ Kahzgul

ARs
DoP / Arminus D: These remain the two best ARs. You can kill 2 people with a single mag and the TTK is absurdly low. Very short range, however. The "nerf" doesn't seem to have changed much at all for these

Soulstealer's Claw from CoE is the same type, but with twice the range. I got one with perfect balance and counterbalance and it's a laser.

Smallbore and Rangefinder with OAS sight. Glorious.

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Friday, April 22, 2016, 12:08 (3231 days ago) @ bluerunner

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Smallbore, lightweight, counterbalance :)

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Friday, April 22, 2016, 13:21 (3231 days ago) @ someotherguy

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PvP and Guns post patch.

by Speedracer513 @, Dallas, Texas, Friday, April 22, 2016, 04:00 (3231 days ago) @ Kahzgul

Pretty good overview, and I agree with most of it.

One slight correction though... You said:

Hand Cannons:
Hawkmoon is the same as it was, but for some reason people think it got buffed. It didn't, really, as far as PvP is concerned. It's okay but not great.

It actually did get buffed a little bit though.

From the April Update Patch Notes:

Hawkmoon
...
Increased Range base stat (by +10)

It's a subtle change, but that extra range has made it a little easier to consistently hit your shots. It's nowhere near where it was early in Y1 (and as much as I love Hawkmoon, that's a good thing) - but it definitely feels more consistent and pleasant to use overall than it did two weeks ago. I've definitely found it to be more viable, perhaps even verging on dominant, in PvP since the patch.

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PvP and Guns post patch.

by red robber @, Crawfish Country, Friday, April 22, 2016, 04:57 (3231 days ago) @ Kahzgul

The balance seems great right now with only a few exceptions. The highest RoF pulse and scouts don't appear much, but I'm not sure how many y2 guns fit these archetypes anyway. Legendary HC's still seem a tad out classed. Why use a HC when you could use a scout? Maybe they could fiddle with player movement, or reload speeds on HC's.

Fusion rifles are the glaring omission from PvP. Why couldn't they have just made some simple tweaks to the original fusions from year one? At this point they need to be almost as potent as they used to be, but maybe with longer charge times, slower reloads, slower player movement while equipped. I hated them in Y1 but it would be nice to have more diversity in the specials.

I have seen alot of UR this week. I wonder if it will activate my defender's No Backup Plans build overshield. And what special would I couple it with?

I think they've made a mistake by removing all the special and heavy ammo. That was part of the flavor of Destiny PvP.

After the dust settles, I still think Mida will reign in the try-hard meta. Its such a solid gun for the neutral game. Other than that, I don't think much else will change, unless the hard hitting PR's are really accurate enough to 2 shot consistently.

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PvP and Guns post patch.

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Friday, April 22, 2016, 13:44 (3231 days ago) @ red robber

Fusion rifles are the glaring omission from PvP.

I've been seeing them a LOT* lately. Even Hunters, who are usually going postal with shotguns and Blink.

*Like, two people running every game. That's about 1000% more than usual.

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PvP and Guns post patch.

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Friday, April 22, 2016, 13:48 (3231 days ago) @ Kahzgul

Scouts
MIDA is every bit as good as it ever was. "Nerf" my ass. This gun is amazing and, given the sniper nerfs, is probably better vs. snipers than it was pre-patch. Use with confidence.

To be fair, they never said they were nerfing it, in fact they even say in the weapon tuning article: "Ignoring popularity we think MIDA is fairly balanced in the global scale of weapons..."
And I can say getting shot with it while shooting someone back is significantly less annoying without high caliber rounds.

Fusions: I haven't found a fusion rifle I liked yet, but that's not to say that I haven't had my clock cleaned by one lately. These can now roll with armor piercing, making for a single shot that can clear a hallway. Year 2 pocket infinity is worth a look, as is Plan C. I've heard the FWC fusion rifle is good as well, but I haven't looked it over yet.

If you haven't liked any fusion rifles from the beginning of Destiny, that'll probably never change. Personally I use Thesan FR4 (Omolon fusion rifle, pops up at Gunsmith from time to time) with Accelerated Coils and Rangefinder. The Vacancy (which is the FWC fusion rifle) is the exact same archetype.

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