This isn't a thread about Destiny's story being bad, but rather a thread about the direction it has been taking.

It seems to me, based on the stories so far, that we aren't really progressing forward in a significant way. What's the big question everybody had when Destiny was about to come out?

What is the traveler? What is the Darkness? What does the darkness want and how can we stop it?

Has anything so far in game led us in the direction of answering these questions? It seems like so far we are getting these little individual stories that don't really tie into those questions. Taken King might move us closer somewhat, but based on the stories so far and the upcoming nature of Rise of Iron, I can't help but feel as if we are just spinning the wheels so to speak and not actually going anywhere narratively.

I feel like each story should take us on a journey bringing us closer to that big question, but that doesn't seem to be happening.

Does anyone else feel like we are standing still?

I'm starting to think that the major elements will move in Destiny 2.

i.e. more on the speaker, the stranger, the traveller, the darkness.

Current story arcs are somewhat based on the context of the initial game, and events surrounding that. Kind of like an "age" so to speak. You'll have Destiny Age 1, with a bunch of arcs. Then the story's context will change with Destiny 2, and it will have a bunch of arcs.

Wouldn't it be interesting if Destiny 2 had a main story arc that took us outside of our solar system to a new one?

Wouldn't it be interesting if Destiny 2 had a main story arc that took us outside of our solar system to a new one?

There's still plenty of worlds to visit in our own solar system! I mean, Jupiter seems inevitable given the Nine live there.

Like, where is Jupiter in relation to Saturn? In the same quadrant? Opposite sides of the Sun?

Jupiter at conjunction is still closer than Saturn at opposition, so it shouldn't matter.

In game?

No... Or at least not nearly renough.

We actually know a good bit more about the motives of the Darkness than we did before thanks to the Books of Sorrow... But none of that is in game. That would be ok if the astounding hugeness of killing Atheon, or Crota, or especially Oryx was made clear in game. Our defeat of Oryx is something many powerful and prepared races failed to do. It is, perhaps, a turning point in galatic power. But you wouldn't know it unless you step away from your console.

We also saved the Traveler from being slowly eaten by the Hive but have seen zero improvement as of yet. Not even in the Grimoire to the best of my knowledge. I've always figured the revival (or destruction!) of the Traveler would be a Destiny 2 or even Destiny 3 event, but just some tiny hints that what we did mattered would be nice. :(

Our defeat of Oryx is something many powerful and prepared races failed to do. It is, perhaps, a turning point in galatic power. But you wouldn't know it unless you step away from your console.

I think we've had this discussion before, but isn't that sort of a problem in their storytelling at some point?

Atheon basically literally controls time, and the Guardians take him down. Crota comes in and invades (although he never seemed as big a threat as Atheon, to me). He goes down like a chump. Oryx comes in, and is the most powerful being in the galaxy (that we know of). We kill him largely without issue. What's next? It's the power-creep problem applied to a story. I mean, I know at the end of the day we're going to defeat whatever evil thing they throw at us, but it's just getting harder and harder for me to suspend disbelief at how absolutely unstoppable we are. If we get our power from the Traveler, why the hell couldn't it just take care of all this crap?

- No text -

In some ways it does seem odd. In others though, I think Guardians are something entirely different from what the universe has ever seen. My sense of it from what we've done, from what the Grimoire has said, and from what little Bungie has said in various places is that Guardians are far more powerful than anything even the Hive have encountered.

Our ability to return from death, to weild Light directly, to naturally interact with and reverse the corruption of Light (as we did when killing Oryx) are abilities that have never been witnessed before. Perhaps the Traveler had such power but I get the sense that the philosophy of the Light was to heal and build communities and uplift but not to directly fight... Until Rasputin nuked the Traveler.

When that happened and Ghost and Guardians were created the war of Light vs Darkness changed. Now the Light is on the offensive, pushing out from The City in the form of us Guardians. And yes, the Darkness is powerful and through the Hive it destroyed thousands of worlds, but the Light is powerful also... If used in the wrong way.

See, I also hope that when the Traveler awakes, it will denounce us as preverting the Light. We are destroyers, not builders. We're more following the Hive's Sword Logic of being the last creatures in the universe standing that we are terraforming worlds and building communities.

Again, though, this is something I think Bungie has not told us and has to be inferred almost entirely, which is dumb.

In some ways it does seem odd. In others though, I think Guardians are something entirely different from what the universe has ever seen. My sense of it from what we've done, from what the Grimoire has said, and from what little Bungie has said in various places is that Guardians are far more powerful than anything even the Hive have encountered.

Our ability to return from death, to weild Light directly, to naturally interact with and reverse the corruption of Light (as we did when killing Oryx) are abilities that have never been witnessed before. Perhaps the Traveler had such power but I get the sense that the philosophy of the Light was to heal and build communities and uplift but not to directly fight... Until Rasputin nuked the Traveler.

When that happened and Ghost and Guardians were created the war of Light vs Darkness changed. Now the Light is on the offensive, pushing out from The City in the form of us Guardians. And yes, the Darkness is powerful and through the Hive it destroyed thousands of worlds, but the Light is powerful also... If used in the wrong way.

See, I also hope that when the Traveler awakes, it will denounce us as preverting the Light. We are destroyers, not builders. We're more following the Hive's Sword Logic of being the last creatures in the universe standing that we are terraforming worlds and building communities.

Again, though, this is something I think Bungie has not told us and has to be inferred almost entirely, which is dumb.

This all sounds right to me.

The grimoire makes it clear that the Hive hierarchy is entirely derived from individual power. The strength of the ONE. One Oryx. Then his vassals. Then their vassals. And so forth, like a feudal society. And here come the Guardians, as a TEAM, who are able to defeat him. But it muddies the equation. The guardians are not individually strong (except that one sunsinger who solo'd Oryx), but they are strong together. This is a type of fight the Hive have never had to face before?

And why not? Because - as we know from the Fallen - the Traveler is a coward. He runs, he hides, he uplifts races and then - as the darkness approaches - he runs away again.

But when he was crippled by Rasputin, he made an act of desperation and raised the ghosts to bring the powers of light to bear in ways that had never been unleashed upon the universe. Violently.

In many ways, the guardians are too powerful for their own good. We are immortal, amoral, and relentless. Single-minded and greedy. And virtually unstoppable. We have to compunction about our need to kill, and we celebrate our military victories with dances and sparrow flips, showing bravado that gave the cabal pause.

---

In my opinion, the single biggest step in the overall story was the moment when Ghost told us we weren't the first guardian he tried to bring back. THAT was a revelation.

I'm just wondering if Bungie ever put thought on how they're arranged. I know I didn't until just now.

Until Rasputin nuked the Traveler

I don't think he did. I thought that too after reading a grimoire card in TTK, and I was promptly corrected by the guy who wrote the card. It was a possible contingency.

There was that list of triggers that a second card confirmed all as being true and the implied action to take was nuke the Traveler. I think we're going to have to agree on this one... Unless you have proof. :)

but it's just getting harder and harder for me to suspend disbelief at how absolutely unstoppable we are.

Bingle is addressing this by neutering our guns one by one.

There was that list of triggers that a second card confirmed all as being true and the implied action to take was nuke the Traveler. I think we're going to have to agree on this one... Unless you have proof. :)

Read it carefully. It's framed as a contingency plan. It doesn't state whether or not the traveler actually tried to leave. In fact the exact words when I asked directly about it were:

People seem to miss that it's framed as a contingency plan. It doesn't state whether the Traveler actually tried to leave.

There you go.

WHISPER NEUTRINO NEEDLE>>

V101NTS923ATS000 SECRET HADAL !!ABHOR!!
AI-COM/RPSN: ASSETS//SUBTLE//IMPERATIVE
CONTINGENT ACTION ORDER

This is a SUBTLE ASSETS IMPERATIVE (NO HUMAN REVIEW) (NO AI-COM REVIEW) (secure/ABHOR).

Stand by for CRITERIA:

Under CARRHAE (WHITE or BLACK)
If SECURITY STATE is EGYPTIAN
If event rank is TEILHARD: TRAUMATIC CONTEXT or SKYSHOCK: OUTSIDE CONTEXT
If VOLUSPA is ACTIVE and in FAILURE [[synapse to FENRIR::SURTR]]
If YUGA is ACTIVE and in SUNDOWN
If AI-COM has granted PERMISSIVE POTENTIATION to outboard resilient instances
If a CIVILIZATION KILL EVENT is underway [[all flexions]]
If tactical morality is built at MIDNIGHT

Stand by for DECISION POINT:

If available ISR and WARWATCH indicates imminent [O] departure

then [O] departure compromises human/neohuman survival and epoch strategy

Stand by for ABHORRENT IMPERATIVE:

Activate LOKI CROWN
Perform deniable authorization: full caedometric and noetic release
Prevent [O] departure by any means available

Stand by for effect assessment criteria:

Coerce pseudoaltruistic [O] defensive action.
Defer civilization kill.

STOP STOP STOP V101NTS923ATS001

That basically says if all these conditions are true then prevent the Traveler's "[O]" departure by any means necessary and coerce a pesudoaltruistic defensive action from [O]. Basically, nuke it so it has to defend itself and thus Humanity.

So, were those conditions met? I think so:

V120NNI800CLS000 CLEAR MORNING OUTCRY
AI-COM/RSPN: ASSETS//FORCECON//IMPERATIVE
IMMEDIATE ACTION ORDER

This is an ALL ASSETS IMPERATIVE (unsecured/OUTCRY)

CAUTERIZE. DISPERSE. ESTIVATE.

Total strategic collapse imminent. FENRIR HEART reports complete operational mortality. SURTR DROWN in progress but negative effect. Forecasts unanimously predict terminal VOLUSPA failure.

As of CLS000 a HARD CIVILIZATION KILL EVENT is in progress across the operational area.

I am declaring YUGA SUNDOWN effective on receipt (epoch reach/FORCECON variant). Cancel counterforce objectives. Cancel population protection objectives. Format moral structures for MIDNIGHT EXIGENT.

Execute long hold for reactivation.

AI-COM/RSPN SIGNOFF
STOP STOP STOP V120NNI800CLS001

V113NNI070XMX001 SECRET HADAL INSTANT
AI-COM/RSPN: SOLSECCENT//SxISR//DEEPSPACE
CONTACT CONTACT CONTACT
TRANSIENT. NULLSOURCE. NULLTYPE.

This is a SKYSHOCK ALERT.

Multiple distributed ISR assets report a TRANSIENT NEAR EXTRASOLAR EVENT. Event duration ZERO POINT THREE SECONDS. Event footprint includes sterile neutrino scattering and gravity waves. Omnibus analysis detects deep structure information content (nine sigma) and internal teleonomy.

No hypothesis on event mechanism (FLAG ACAUSAL). Bootstrap simulation suggests event is DIRECTED and INIMICABLE (convergent q-Bayes/Monte Carlo probability approaches 1).

No hypothesis on deep structure encoding (TCC/NP-HARD).

Source blueshift suggests IMMINENT SOLAR ENTRY.

Promote event to SKYSHOCK: OCP: EXTINCTION. Activate VOLUSPA. Activate YUGA. Cauterize public sources to SECURE ISIS and harden for defensive action.

I am invoking CARRHAE WHITE and assuming control of solar defenses.

STOP STOP STOP V113NNI070XMX091

We have:

1. Security State Egyptian? Unknown.
2. Event rank is Skyshock Outside Context? Yep.
3. Volupsa active and in failure? Yep.
4. Yuga active and in sundown? Yep.
5. AI-COM has granted PERMISSIVE POTENTIATION to outboard resilient instances? Yep.
6. Civilization kill event underway? Yep.
7. Tactical morality is built at MIDNIGHT? Yep.
8. Do ISR and WARWATCH indicates imminent [O] departure? Unknown. (But that's what the Traveler has done every other time the Hive / Darkness has found it we learned a year later via the Books of Sorrow.)

That's 7/8 conditions almost surely being met. And the intend actions of those conditions being met matches up with what we see of the Traveler hanging damaged defending the earth. Is is 100% that Rasputin attacked? No. But it by and large fits.

Because of all that and Rasputin's general Durandal-ness expressed elsewhere, I'm sticking with Rasputin having attacked the Traveler to save himself. At least until we get some evidence to the contrary. And I do not believe there are any other supportable theories at the moment.

Because of all that and Rasputin's general Durandal-ness expressed elsewhere, I'm sticking with Rasputin having attacked the Traveler to save himself. At least until we get some evidence to the contrary. And I do not believe there are any other supportable theories at the moment.

Thematically it doesn't make sense.

He invokes Carrhae White. In the Battle of Carrhae, the Roman aggressors lose and suffer heavy casualties. The Parthian army suffered minimal losses. The Parthians also captured a Roman golden aquilae. If anything, this would make the Darkness the Parthians since it metaphorically stole our golden age, and basically wiped us out.

This has to refer to something else, because it does not fit the description of what transpired.

Your interpretation feels very wrong to me. If I were to reference the battle of Carrhae, I'd be referencing the part where a defending army (Humaity) managed to defeat a superior attacking army (the Darkness). How you managed to pin the Darkness as the defenders is beyond bewildering...

Combined with the 7/8 ways the contengency plan matches up with the stated facts of the battle and the way the end result of the contengency plan and the reality we see in Destiny (where the Traveler did not leave and is protecting Humanity when we know it always fled other civilizations attacked by the Hive) and you have to pretty much close your eyes, cover your ears, and shout la la la to arrive at the "has to" conclusion you did.

Yes, there is a little doubt as to whether Rasputin fired on the Traveler. But only a little.

I mean, I agree that Rasputin kept the traveller there.

I disagree that he fired nukes upon him directly. This smells like Durandal's original escape plan from the Marathon. He found and called the Phfor to essentially hitch a ride and upgrade his tech. The Phfor attacked and took out the Marathon, but their attack was Durandal's instrument. I think Rasputin, with possibly some outside help, backed the traveller into a corner to change the cycle of running from the darkness, in this case, at the expense of humanity.

I certainly wouldn't rule that out. Especially given that the ISR assets referred to in the logs are almost certainly closely related to the Future War Cult's strange vision granting machines which themselves are based on Maya Sundaresh's work on Vex technology. Maya, if my theories hold, being the true identity of the Exo Stranger. It may very well be that Rasputin did something more than just see the Darkness approaching.via traditional means. He may have foreseen it. Humanity was arming itself to a ridiculous extent pre-Darkness after all!

That said, besides the tentative link to the ISR, there is very little to support the Durandal-like "I called them here" theory. I'd say you got less of a disagreement and more of a "wouldn't it be neat if" bit of rampant speculation. Rise of Iron might prove very interesting on this front seeing as the Shiva tech virus seems visually linked to Seraph/War Mind technology.

He flat out says that the Traveler didn't shrug and make herself alone like IT, but Rasputin did.

"Everything died but I survived and I learned from it. From IT.
Consider IT the power Titanomach world-ender and consider what IT means. I met IT at the gate of the garden and I recall IT smiled at me before before IT devoured the blossoms with black flame and pinned their names across the sky. IT was stronger than everything. I fought IT with aurora knives and with the stolen un-fire of singularities made sharp and my sweat was earthquake and my breath was static but IT was stronger so how did I survive?
I AM ALONE I survived alone. I cast off the shield and I shrugged my shoulders so that the billions fell off me down into the ash. They made me to be stronger than them and to learn and I learned well:
IT is alone and IT is strong and IT won. Even over the gardener and she held power beyond me but the gardener did not shrug and make herself alone. IT always wins."

Go back and read the logs. Rasputin detects something powerful coming and activates Humanity's various war assets.

Activate VOLUSPA. Activate YUGA

Nothing works. VOLUSPA is predicted to fail. YUGA enters the SUNDOWN condition upon receipt that it too has failed. From there Rasputin does shrug. Instead of fighting to the end he:

Cancel counterforce objectives. Cancel population protection objectives. Format moral structures for MIDNIGHT EXIGENT.

Execute long hold for reactivation.

Basically he gives up and decides to hide out in his bunker. Bun note that morality being at MIDNIGHT is one of the eight conditions listed in the other log.

I'm not sure what you think Rasputin never used. He says it himself:

I fought IT with aurora knives and with the stolen un-fire of singularities made sharp and my sweat was earthquake and my breath was static but IT was stronger so how did I survive?

Unleashing such wonderful firepower did not stop IT ( the Darkness) which I think is what lead to the eight Carrhea White conditions being met. WE even have a good idea of what the Rasputin might have used on the Traveler.

Yes, it's RIGOR. Yes, I believe that's correct. Yes, it is, uh, it is an antimatter payload, a strategic asset. Specifically? Ah, I believe it's an annihilation-pumped caedometric weapon.

The way I read all of this is Rasputin tried, was losing, cancelled his military resistance, hit the Traveler with an antimatter weapon to preserve himself, then went into hiding hoping to wether the storm while the Traveler was forced to fight its own battle.

Given the evidence:

1. A checklist that we can verify was mostly met
2. A course of action that called for stopping the Traveler by any means necessary.
3. A powerful antimatter weapon launched into orbit before the Darkness arrived.
4. The fact that as of the current day the traveler is badly damaged and unable to leave and has thus stayed and defended humanity.

From my perspective, the dots are clearly there and the lines to connect them are fairly straightforward...

There is a very specific chain of events:

Under CARRHAE (WHITE or BLACK)
If SECURITY STATE is EGYPTIAN (Met)
If event rank is TEILHARD: TRAUMATIC CONTEXT or SKYSHOCK: OUTSIDE CONTEXT (Met)
If VOLUSPA is ACTIVE and in FAILURE [[synapse to FENRIR::SURTR]] (Met)
If YUGA is ACTIVE and in SUNDOWN (Met)
If AI-COM has granted PERMISSIVE POTENTIATION to outboard resilient instances (Unknown)
If a CIVILIZATION KILL EVENT is underway [[all flexions]] (Met)
If tactical morality is built at MIDNIGHT (Met)

Stand by for DECISION POINT:

If available ISR and WARWATCH indicates imminent [O] departure (Negative)

So far, there are no indications that the last condition has been met. "the gardener did not shrug and make herself alone"

Leaving would most certainly make her alone.

It is to humanity she has fled as her last refuge. She has nowhere else to go.
"Now, your flight is rapid, your vast mind infected with such dread and toxic doubt that you find yourself afraid of the simple act of thought.

And it is your children you must turn to now, in time of need."

"This has been such a long chase. This will be the place you will fight. Fight and win."

Earth is her last stand. She had thought the darkness contained, had contented herself with uplifting numerous civilizations and then moving on. Until she encountered the fleeing remnants of one of them. heading back down the chain she discovers that the Darkness has escaped containment and has destroyed all her uplifted civilizations. Humanity is the last one, the final place and her final hope.

If they did consider the position of solar bodies correctly, we could find out how far in the future Destiny takes place.

It's wrong because if Rasputin attacked the traveler, he's the aggressor, which means he'd lose the battle.

We did not win that fight. The darkness wiped us out. In no way is that situation comparable to history. If it were, we'd have defended the darkness and lost very little. But that didn't happen.

If they did consider the position of solar bodies correctly, we could find out how far in the future Destiny takes place.

I always contended that Destiny takes place in contemporary time, not in the future. Case and point: the Great Red Spot is still on Jupiter according to the grimoire card. It's shrinking substantially recently, and could possibly vanish within our lifetimes.

:-p

Does anyone else feel like we are standing still?

Maybe it's because the initial story presentation was so poor, but I like the way Destiny explores a variety of narratives as a kind of series of shorts.

Stuff like the story of aurax/Oryx and the origins of the Hive, or what's going on with the queen is more interesting to me then the central mystery of the traveler. I'd be perfectly happy if Destiny stayed a collection of short interesting stories, rather than plunging into it's own "central storyline" butthole like the later Halos did.

There's obv. lots of work to do in presentation there though.

Does anyone else feel like we are standing still?

Maybe it's because the initial story presentation was so poor, but I like the way Destiny explores a variety of narratives as a kind of series of shorts.

Stuff like the story of aurax/Oryx and the origins of the Hive, or what's going on with the queen is more interesting to me then the central mystery of the traveler. I'd be perfectly happy if Destiny stayed a collection of short interesting stories, rather than plunging into it's own "central storyline" butthole like the later Halos did.

There's obv. lots of work to do in presentation there though.

Fun in the world rather than the main plot is a huge part of the appeal in Elder Scrolls games (there was even a mod for Skyrim that turned the main storyline into just another quest that you could pick up through exploration, and you could flat-out never start it if you didn't want to... Looking forward to that mod in the Remaster).

I'd love to see the stories that don't even involve Guardians (such as Holliday's journey to the Wall with her mother, ODST style). The universe is interesting enough that I'm not in any rush to really push the main plot forward.

Send us on a mission to Europe to scavenge for supplies, or a trip to an underwater military base to collect some nukes, only to find a rampant AI... stuff like that.

It's wrong because if Rasputin attacked the traveler, he's the aggressor, which means he'd lose the battle.

Why making him an aggressor necessarily means he'll lose the battle? What battle are you talking about?

We did not win that fight. The darkness wiped us out. In no way is that situation comparable to history. If it were, we'd have defended the darkness and lost very little. But that didn't happen.

Isn't the City safe? Also, he is arguing Rasputin is not really "us", but a 3rd party that may have some remote/indirect interest in our well-being.

Since we have been doing telescopic observations of planets, it's been there. We don't know how it fluctuates or how it dies. Just because it's getting smaller doesn't mean it will go away.

Furthermore, some historians claim this is a new red spot from the 1800s, and prior to this, there was a different spot visible for over a hundred years prior, and people just associated the two with each other.

Large storms continue to be created. For example, in 1997, a little red spot showed up and continues to grow larger.

It's unreasonable to assume that the GRS must diminish in our lifetimes or that it or a new red spot wouldn't be there in a thousand years.

It's wrong because if Rasputin attacked the traveler, he's the aggressor, which means he'd lose the battle.

Why making him an aggressor necessarily means he'll lose the battle? What battle are you talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Carrhae

Unless that's not the reference, then the parallels don't make any sense.

At the very least the last one should be Unknown given that what we observe in the present day would seem to fit with the planned course of action if the Traveler did try to leave AND since we know that the Traveler sometimes/often/always fled the Hive every other time it was found.

I see your Alpha Lupi cards and will raise you Ghost Fragment: The Traveler 3:

The knife had a million blades.

And you were giant, powerful and swift. But the knife pinned you. Cut your godly flesh away.

Could the one that did the pinning and cutting have been Rasputin? But, I do see your point. The various Alpha Lupi cards are not something I considered along side the Rasputin theory. I'll need to take another look at them tonight. :)

I don't think the Traveler thought the Darkness was contained, however. From the time she tired to destroy it at the Firmament she knew she failed and fled as the Hive and their worm gods were attacking the surrounding civilization. I seem to recall a card from Oryx's or the Hive's point of view mentioning the Traveler fleeing as well. Something else to see if I can track down.

Let me do another read through of the Books of Sorrow, but my impression was more that the Traveler had tried over and over to stop the Darkness by uplifting civilizations and each time it failed it fled just as the Darkness / Hive arrived. Some of the Hive's conquests were against entire empires instead of a lone star system so it seems unlikely that the Traveler didn't know about any of it if it only fled as the Hive got close.

I do like the alternative point of view you provided though. Again, linking it to the Alpha Lupi cards was a neat idea.

It was not named post-fact, but rather before it even happened (since it was already in the directives). As such, using the aftermath as conclusion to whether or not the theory is valid based on parallels is quite improper, IMO.

Not to mention there are two Carrhae conditions (WHITE or BLACK), while the actual battle only had one aftermath (obviously).

It's wrong because if Rasputin attacked the traveler, he's the aggressor, which means he'd lose the battle.

Why making him an aggressor necessarily means he'll lose the battle? What battle are you talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Carrhae

Unless that's not the reference, then the parallels don't make any sense.

Come on, Cody. At least acknowledge that the reference might just be to a defense plan designed to defeat a superior enemy. It doesn't have to be an exact historical renenactment... In space... Against aliens... Fought with starships and antimatter weapons. Sheesh, it might as well be that, according to you, none of this makes sense because neither the Darkness nor Humanity was using bows or horses or were from Rome...

You are insanely un-fun to talk lore with. I'd get more give and take from a close minded brick wall! :(

It's wrong because if Rasputin attacked the traveler, he's the aggressor, which means he'd lose the battle.

Why making him an aggressor necessarily means he'll lose the battle? What battle are you talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Carrhae

Unless that's not the reference, then the parallels don't make any sense.

Come on, Cody. At least acknowledge that the reference might just be to a defense plan designed to defeat a superior enemy.

I acknowledge that fully. But since we were defeated, that must mean such plan a was never executed. Which is the whole point of the sub discussion. Did Rasputin attack the traveler? I say no.

The "plan" (actually a condition) came to be exactly as predicted (could've gone either BLACK or WHITE, but happened), which is all Raga's theory needs.

Maybe the contingency plan actually took humanity's downfall into consideration, which is my favorite theory, since it implicates huge "personality" complexities for Rasputin.

- No text -

Which of course is intentional.

I agree there is lots of supposition. It's hard to establish a good chronology that makes everything square up.

We know the Traveler is active prior to visiting humanity, there are plenty of "Light" based races and forces mentioned in the Books of Sorrow. The gifts of the Traveller, like the Gift Mast, are seen several times. From the books of sorrow and comments surrounding the age of the Dreadnought, we can surmise the Hive have been active for millions of years.

That means that the Traveller left Fundament before heading to Earth. The Leviathan states that the Deep lived in Fundament, a prison in a addition to a refuge. The Worms and the Deep inhabited the depths of that gas giant, and the Traveler knew it, and moved the moons to ensure that the life the Deep had summoned to it's surface would be eliminated on a routine basis.

This is the only offensive act recorded about the traveler. You never hear it working against anyone preemptively before.

I don't know how to square the fact that the Traveler flees to humanity, which it already knows, after it flees the Deep and the proto-hive. It must have known the Hive were agents of the Deep, it equipped the Ammonites with space magic. How could it allow the deep to chase it all those millions of years, and still have time to raise up new species? Why would it raise new species knowing that it was being followed by essentially a nihilistic death cult?

There are no records in the books of sorrow of the Traveler warning a species (unlike Ultimate Vision warning of the arrival of Ultimate Gal ak Tus in the Marval Comic) of the coming or the threat of the deep. There is some indication that the various "light" galactic civilizations had some contact with one another, and noted the loss of the Fundament system. But if the Traveler retreated to any of the prior civilizations she did not warn them, bolster their defenses or anything. The Ammonite are the only other group aside from Humanity that are given space magic.

Why? What was the traveller doing? This is what I can't square in my head cannon. We know the traveler arrives in our system and uplifts humanity, but never expresses a direct warning. Rasputin has to tease it out, infer the Darkness's existence from the Traveler's own.

Rasputin invest heavily into an arsenal, yet there isn't an indication that humanity fought itself in the golden age. It would seem far from it, in fact.

Why? I guess we will find out in Destiny 2, perhaps, or things could get as convoluted as Marathon Infinity.

Is there any evidence of the Traveler actually communicating with, well, anything? I mean, we all find the Speaker shady as hell and he is the closest I can think of.

"Silence ISIS" seems to indicate it was broadcasting something. Also in the Dreams of Alpha Lupi the Traveler whispers instructions to subtly nudge the advancement of civilization.

But I mean if I saw Cthulu emerge from the ocean and start eating people the bare minimum I would do when pulling up to a military base would be to recommend not waisting time with side arms...

"Silence ISIS" seems to indicate it was broadcasting something. Also in the Dreams of Alpha Lupi the Traveler whispers instructions to subtly nudge the advancement of civilization.

But I mean if I saw Cthulu emerge from the ocean and start eating people the bare minimum I would do when pulling up to a military base would be to recommend not waisting time with side arms...

I don't see Silence? Just Secure?

Maybe it can't give direct messages (hence why we have a Speaker to possibly interpret these subtle nudges [into whatever nefarious motives he himself has, that bastard :p])

Maybe said subtle nudges can indeed be given as warnings to a bigger threat, but it was misinterpreted as threats themselves some civilizations ago, so the Traveler stopped doing that.

- No text -

It had to have communicated something. We didn't come up with FTL drives and super AIs and synthetic bodies all because Mars now had a breathable atmosphere and rain. There's three Grimoire cards from the point of view of one of the astronauts who went to Mars to meet the Traveler and he talks about redidicating his life to understanding Light. So maybe the Traveler just has a giant dot matrix printer inside or maybe it spoke to us or maybe it hacked our wifi networks and dropped a folder with a bunch of text files on someone's desktop?

That same astronaut does mention that his mind was renewed as if he'd become much smarter. Perhaps the Traveler did whisper to humanity and the ones who now knew things helped usher in the Golden Age?

You don't get direct messages. You simply become enlightened in a certain way you weren't before.

"We are just a bunch of monkeys pounding on a nuclear bomb because we like the sound it makes"

Haha! Good catch.

I like the idea that Destiny in its entirity would be 5 chapters in a huge space opera, but It feels now that that direction was intentionally abandoned in favor of an episodic story experience. I.e. It feels like the directors at Bungie felt like we would have more fun if we were Captain Kirk, having numerous essentially unrelated small stories, than as Captain Janeway who has to deal with one large story arc.

I would have preferred a Serial approach to story telling. Back to the Y1 OP drama. I think it would have been nice if each of the raids, and all of the strikes would have been part of the approach to Atheon, who would have been the Y1 climax point. Imagine if the vex story we were presented with was enlarged to incompass 12 months. The first raid is the the Nexus. The second raid would have been the Gatelords Eye. The last would be Atheon. That would have made the gravitas of killing atheon more equal to the work we had to do to get there.

Similar approach could have been taken with Oryx Year two. First raid is Omnigul, Second Raid is Crota, Final Raid is Oryx. Then it would feel like we really had to work to kill a god.

As it is I dont expect any "core story" addidtions until D2 which is a shame.

Captain Sisko had the story arcs. Janeway had a Gilligan's Island in space vibe, complete with space tornados, space pro wrestling, space viruses and whatever else they could rip from the headlines.