Hunter Changes... Stealth buff to melee?

Okay, so I just finished 3 CoE runs. CoE is much more difficult (in large part to Trickle this week. Not fun Bungie. Please remove Trickle forever). The Variks point removal buff was noticeable, but not entirely problematic.

Here's my takeaway from the hunter changes:

- Trip Mines are fine. They do not actually "bounce" as advertised, but rather drop immediately to the floor in front of the target and still blow that target the hell up. I'll have to take the to PvP to see how they fare, but it looks like the "nerf" to them sticking was more to prevent the bonus damage from the stick than to make them less useful in the situations where you used to stick them to someone.

- Hunter melee seems to have received a stealth buff, and a pretty big one at that. The normal melee will now redirect you mid-air and lunge about 30% farther than before the patch. It is tremendously effective. My guess here is that they made the "blink" portion of blink strike shorter (0.4 meters shorter per the patch notes) but simultaneously buffed normal melee attack lunge by a similar amount. The only reason I can think for them doing that is to prevent the odd "blink behind the hit box and get a backstab kill from the front" issue. Anyway, hunter melee got a significant buff to the point where it is usable as a mobility tool if there is an enemy close enough to activate the melee aim assist.

- Golden gun now does ~11k damage (up from 6000). I'm guessing the 50% buff was to the base value, and that escalated greatly due to level multipliers or something. That being said, my sniper rifle still crits for 29k. I'm sorry, GG should do more damage than any gun, with the possible exception of sleeper simulant. Regardless, the buff is much appreciated.

I did not really test nightstalker's new and improved trap grenades etc... but the non-trap versions all seemed to behave just like before in the PvE realm.

Blink change to blade dancer is noticeable. IMO there's really no need for blink anymore, except as a sometimes poor man's shadestep.

Speaking of which, the shadestep change is totally fine and I think it actually is better for forcing players to get into the "sprint, jump, slide, shadestep, repeat" loop of movement.

Anyway, all good changes and reports of any hunter demise were greatly exaggerated.

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Thanks for the details. I've not played since the patch and wanted to know what I'm getting into.

I have a hunter specced for max str and dis, double trip mine and double knives, it's the account my wife plays on.

She loved sticking people with trip mines and feel she is only going to be infuriated by the update :(

At least now you can use 4x GG shots and be able to kill supers with them :D

Was there any stealth buff to the explosion damage or over-penetration as part of the overall GG buff?

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Thanks for the details. I've not played since the patch and wanted to know what I'm getting into.

I have a hunter specced for max str and dis, double trip mine and double knives, it's the account my wife plays on.

She loved sticking people with trip mines and feel she is only going to be infuriated by the update :(

At least now you can use 4x GG shots and be able to kill supers with them :D

Was there any stealth buff to the explosion damage or over-penetration as part of the overall GG buff?

The explosions dealt by combustion also do additional damage.

GG still needs 2 shots to pop a bubble.

GG will not 1-shot a max armor, unstoppable titan mid-smash.

GG will 1-shot everyone else, including overshielded, radianced, ram-wearing sunsingers.

EDIT: Apparently GG will not 1-shot a juggernaut shielded titan as it will only pop the shield but not penetrate through to the titan regardless of how much health he has.

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Thanks for the details. I've not played since the patch and wanted to know what I'm getting into.

I have a hunter specced for max str and dis, double trip mine and double knives, it's the account my wife plays on.

She loved sticking people with trip mines and feel she is only going to be infuriated by the update :(

At least now you can use 4x GG shots and be able to kill supers with them :D

Was there any stealth buff to the explosion damage or over-penetration as part of the overall GG buff?

The explosions dealt by combustion also do additional damage.

GG still needs 2 shots to pop a bubble.

GG will not 1-shot a max armor, unstoppable titan mid-smash.

GG will 1-shot everyone else, including overshielded, radianced, ram-wearing sunsingers.

EDIT: Apparently GG will not 1-shot a juggernaut shielded titan as it will only pop the shield but not penetrate through to the titan regardless of how much health he has.

Yeah... so I don't know how I feel about how much it has made the GG better in PvP... I thought it was good in PvP before it was buffed. Now it's the trump all for supers. FoH made sense at being a trump because it basically has to be in melee range also it is a one shot use. But golden gun? you get 3 shots to stop any ult and range! that seems way to powerful to me.

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1759 views

Thanks for the details. I've not played since the patch and wanted to know what I'm getting into.

I have a hunter specced for max str and dis, double trip mine and double knives, it's the account my wife plays on.

She loved sticking people with trip mines and feel she is only going to be infuriated by the update :(

At least now you can use 4x GG shots and be able to kill supers with them :D

Was there any stealth buff to the explosion damage or over-penetration as part of the overall GG buff?

The explosions dealt by combustion also do additional damage.

GG still needs 2 shots to pop a bubble.

GG will not 1-shot a max armor, unstoppable titan mid-smash.

GG will 1-shot everyone else, including overshielded, radianced, ram-wearing sunsingers.

EDIT: Apparently GG will not 1-shot a juggernaut shielded titan as it will only pop the shield but not penetrate through to the titan regardless of how much health he has.

Yeah... so I don't know how I feel about how much it has made the GG better in PvP... I thought it was good in PvP before it was buffed. Now it's the trump all for supers. FoH made sense at being a trump because it basically has to be in melee range also it is a one shot use. But golden gun? you get 3 shots to stop any ult and range! that seems way to powerful to me.

I don't mind a super that provides zero defensive bonus being the best offensive super.

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Yeah... so I don't know how I feel about how much it has made the GG better in PvP... I thought it was good in PvP before it was buffed. Now it's the trump all for supers. FoH made sense at being a trump because it basically has to be in melee range also it is a one shot use. But golden gun? you get 3 shots to stop any ult and range! that seems way to powerful to me.

I don't mind a super that provides zero defensive bonus being the best offensive super.

Yeah, but how needs defense when you got one shot anybody 3 times at the blink of an eye!? The reason those supers have defense is because they have to get to a location to use their supers. A golden gunner just walks around going "you're dead... you're dead.. you're dead"

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Yeah... so I don't know how I feel about how much it has made the GG better in PvP... I thought it was good in PvP before it was buffed. Now it's the trump all for supers. FoH made sense at being a trump because it basically has to be in melee range also it is a one shot use. But golden gun? you get 3 shots to stop any ult and range! that seems way to powerful to me.

I don't mind a super that provides zero defensive bonus being the best offensive super.

Yeah, but how needs defense when you got one shot anybody 3 times at the blink of an eye!? The reason those supers have defense is because they have to get to a location to use their supers. A golden gunner just walks around going "you're dead... you're dead.. you're dead"

It's harder than you think, or you have to spec into higher auto aim and longer range. I use GG a LOT, and I still go about 1/5 of the time with zero kills.

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I'm not seeing a problem. Golden Gun's job is to kill people in one shot for a limited amount of time / shots and the defense a Super Provides generally isn't meant to block another Super...

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I'm not seeing a problem. Golden Gun's job is to kill people in one shot for a limited amount of time / shots and the defense a Super Provides generally isn't meant to block another Super...

So you are saying that it's cool for Hammers to one shot someone in super form?

That kinda defeats the purpose of rock paper scissors of supers.

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Huh? I've always seen Supers as "gamebreaking" abilities you rarely get to use, not at all supposed to be countered by anything specific other than wit (though other Supers definitely help).

Also, I used to think lowly of GG like you until I started played Gunslinger more often in PvP. It's really not unlike most Supers.

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I'm not seeing a problem. Golden Gun's job is to kill people in one shot for a limited amount of time / shots and the defense a Super Provides generally isn't meant to block another Super...

So you are saying that it's cool for Hammers to one shot someone in super form?

That kinda defeats the purpose of rock paper scissors of supers.

There is no rock paper scissors in Supers. Never was. Each can be absolutely game changing if use at the right moment or absolutely useless when popped at the wrong time. And yes, it's absolutely ok for a Hammer to one shot someone. That's the entire point.

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I'm not seeing a problem. Golden Gun's job is to kill people in one shot for a limited amount of time / shots and the defense a Super Provides generally isn't meant to block another Super...

So you are saying that it's cool for Hammers to one shot someone in super form?

That kinda defeats the purpose of rock paper scissors of supers.

There is no rock paper scissors in Supers. Never was.

This kinda contradicts what you say immediately afterwards.

Each can be absolutely game changing if use at the right moment or absolutely useless when popped at the wrong time.

Supers totally rock paper scissor each other! Not every one does, but every super is good at something.

In my mind, a super is good for killing lots ( more than 1-2) of people, stopping a super or a mix of both. GG was good for both but not great at it. Now they just made it one of the best at taking out other supers.

And yes, it's absolutely ok for a Hammer to one shot someone. That's the entire point.

Sorry, I should have clarified someone in super form.

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In my mind, a super is good for killing lots ( more than 1-2) of people, stopping a super or a mix of both. GG was good for both but not great at it. Now they just made it one of the best at taking out other supers.

GG has always been a great super! You just needed to spec it for your playstyle. I've pretty much always had mine set to Deadeye, Keyhole, Over the horizon. This makes the GG one of the best long distance supers in the game. It might take two shots to blow a bubble, but with the symbiote helmet you are still left with two more kills. I've just never understood when people say it's a weak super. GG has great synergy when you spec it right or wear the proper gear.

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PvE it was very very weak. In PvP the argument was usually "it's not as crazy good as people say." I know I've had the argument several times because I die before I even kill anyone a LOT, and even more often after I get a single kill.

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PvE it was very very weak. In PvP the argument was usually "it's not as crazy good as people say." I know I've had the argument several times because I die before I even kill anyone a LOT, and even more often after I get a single kill.

PvP I use it as a defensive super. With the long range, there's no reason to run headfirst into people that can easily kill you. The only issue with this is the occasional camped sniper that's already aimed on where you might run to. when it comes to FoH, FoH should win every up close fight with a GG since it's a massive damage close range super. The main difference is that if you die while firing up GG you lose it, if you get killed mid FoH you get to keep your super energy.

For PvE I think it falls into the category of most other supers, Great for trash mobs (speced w/ combustion), meh for pretty much everything else. I'd put it on par with FoH, Nova Bomb, Blade Dancer, etc... for most PvE supers. The only 3/4 standout supers for PvE would be Shadowshot, Bubble Bro, Palpatine/Self-Rez Warlock. Self-Rez was only really good to keep you from wiping. Most supers in PvE are not great at killing tons of enemies. Just use them as you get it and try to feed others orbs so you can chain supers.

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In PvE it was somewhat useful with the Nighthawk. It's going to be even better in that situation now. I used to kind of use it as a sleep shot when I was out of heavy.

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It was only marginally better than a non-crit hand cannon shot, and far inferior to a sniper rifle.

In PvP it was good, but not absurd. It still pales in comparison to hammers which provide defense, explode, can track, can leave AoE behind, and you get 7 of them. Golden gun is harder to dodge, but that's about it.

Compare it this way: My average kills per super is probably less than 1.5. Might even be less than 1. The only super that gets fewer kills per use for me is shadowshot which physically can't get more than 1 the way I have it spec'd.

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I agree with this. The buff was well needed and gg is still trumped by FoH

Shadowshot also knocks anyone out of their super instantly. So you could shadowshot a gg before he even fires a shot.

Side note.
Raga, sorry for the way the chat went last night haha, my friends and chat topics can be.. Unpredictable at best.

Thanks for playing though! We can play more tomorrow? :)

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- Golden gun now does ~11k damage (up from 6000). I'm guessing the 50% buff was to the base value, and that escalated greatly due to level multipliers or something. That being said, my sniper rifle still crits for 29k.

I gotta know what sniper you use. I ran CoE last night, and my 335 1kys was only doing 12k/crit shot. (I was doing 49k/shot in Nightfall, but that's because both Specialist and Solar Burn were on, effectively quadrupling damage.)

I want a sniper that does 29k without modifiers! Can you tell me what you're using?

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- Golden gun now does ~11k damage (up from 6000). I'm guessing the 50% buff was to the base value, and that escalated greatly due to level multipliers or something. That being said, my sniper rifle still crits for 29k.

I gotta know what sniper you use. I ran CoE last night, and my 335 1kys was only doing 12k/crit shot. (I was doing 49k/shot in Nightfall, but that's because both Specialist and Solar Burn were on, effectively quadrupling damage.)

I want a sniper that does 29k without modifiers! Can you tell me what you're using?

This was just my 335 Longbow in CoE (I have triple tap and firefly, so no damage boosting perks there). the 29k was critical damage to red health enemies; the gun does far less damage to yellow health bar enemies. Should be the same as your 1kys, so maybe the targets I noted were soft/low armor targets? Non-crit damage was significantly less as well (I don't recall the number offhand as I was looking for max damage comparison).

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- Golden gun now does ~11k damage (up from 6000). I'm guessing the 50% buff was to the base value, and that escalated greatly due to level multipliers or something. That being said, my sniper rifle still crits for 29k.

I gotta know what sniper you use. I ran CoE last night, and my 335 1kys was only doing 12k/crit shot. (I was doing 49k/shot in Nightfall, but that's because both Specialist and Solar Burn were on, effectively quadrupling damage.)

I want a sniper that does 29k without modifiers! Can you tell me what you're using?

This was just my 335 Longbow in CoE (I have triple tap and firefly, so no damage boosting perks there). the 29k was critical damage to red health enemies; the gun does far less damage to yellow health bar enemies. Should be the same as your 1kys, so maybe the targets I noted were soft/low armor targets? Non-crit damage was significantly less as well (I don't recall the number offhand as I was looking for max damage comparison).

Huh... interesting. I think I try and reserve sniper ammo for yellow-bar enemies, mostly, so maybe I've just never noticed the massive damage done to reds. :) Thanks!

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- Golden gun now does ~11k damage (up from 6000). I'm guessing the 50% buff was to the base value, and that escalated greatly due to level multipliers or something. That being said, my sniper rifle still crits for 29k.

I gotta know what sniper you use. I ran CoE last night, and my 335 1kys was only doing 12k/crit shot. (I was doing 49k/shot in Nightfall, but that's because both Specialist and Solar Burn were on, effectively quadrupling damage.)

I want a sniper that does 29k without modifiers! Can you tell me what you're using?

This was just my 335 Longbow in CoE (I have triple tap and firefly, so no damage boosting perks there). the 29k was critical damage to red health enemies; the gun does far less damage to yellow health bar enemies. Should be the same as your 1kys, so maybe the targets I noted were soft/low armor targets? Non-crit damage was significantly less as well (I don't recall the number offhand as I was looking for max damage comparison).

Huh... interesting. I think I try and reserve sniper ammo for yellow-bar enemies, mostly, so maybe I've just never noticed the massive damage done to reds. :) Thanks!

Red bar enemies have lower defense values for their heads. You basically do double damage. If you do the math and do a body shot on a yellow enemy, then look at the crit multiplier on your weapon type, then get a crit, it will be exactly what the multiplier says. Do it on a red bar enemy, and you get double your multiplier.

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