Am I totally crazy, or does this bug you too?

I mean, I know I'm crazy... just not sure if this falls into my usual crazy ;)

I was having a great conversation with Hedgemony on Twitter last night, and I'm curious what you all think about this.

Looking through all the new Rise of Iron info, I found myself pleasantly excited by most of the news. I'm definitely looking forward to playing the expansion in September. But there was 1 little screenshot that really annoyed me, and at first I couldn't understand why.

[image]

"Break seal".

Seeing this instantly made me roll my eyes. It annoyed the crap out of me. And I didn't understand why. Then Hedge said some things that helped crystalize my problem with it:

"Carrot and stick games. The more flashy elements become, the more shallow it actually is. It's pachinko gaming."

"The whimsy of newer animations conflicts with the mature UI. It's like the game stops for a commercial break."

That second quote in particular really hit home for me. I'm sure anyone who visits DBO regularly has seen my many posts about the RNG/Treadmill side of Destiny, and how much it bothers me. Where I enjoy Destiny the most is when I'm able to get absorbed into the combat and the setting and having fun with my friends without thinking about RNG or any of that junk. And in many ways, Bungie is getting better and better about working the loot into the in-game experience (I LOVE the fact that Year 3 Gjallarhorn and Thorn can be acquired through specific quests. Makes me very happy). But then on the flip side, the Live Team seems to be taking a very different approach with the elements they add to the game. We get record books that must be "opened" filled with check lists, Sterling Treasure boxes with their own flashy "opening" animations, tickets that must be purchased before participating in certain activities. It's like the Live Team is trying to actively remind us of how certain elements of Destiny feel like taking a trip to Las Vegas.

It's not a big deal to me, but it does bother me a little. On the one hand, I feel silly that such a tiny thing bothers me at all. I guess when I see little details like that, it makes me feel like Bungie is leaning into a side of the game that I had hoped they would move away from. I find these little elements go a long way towards breaking any chance of immersion in the world of Destiny, which is something I'd hoped I would be able to do by now.

Thoughts?

locked

2230 views

The title is sarcastic, but I do agree with you. Every time I open the sterling treasure thing, I'm almost embarrassed I play the game. That book thing is just ugh

locked

2073 views

Agreed, I can't believe someone wasted their time making the sterling treasure opening animation. Not that it doesn't look nice, but rather that it doesn't add anything to the game experience. It's just an annoying wait screen.

locked

2026 views

- No text -

locked

2022 views

Delays and unnecessary embellishments/extra steps are indeed a bad thing. A UI should be neat, efficient, and above all, helpful. Adding extended animations is not helpful. Having notifications pop up with no way to skip them is not helpful (yes, I'm still aware that my HUD is off, you don't have to remind me more than once an hour). requiring me to hold a book in my inventory that I have to access, then open up again in order to observe the contents is not helpful.

I'm reminded of the Gold packages in Battlefield 4. At first, you'd simply click to open one, and you'd be given a handful of unlocks. Then, they made it so that you'd open the case, then manually select each thing that you unlocked to reveal them. An extra step just for the sake of mystery. There's now a "flip all" button for your unlocks, but it's still an extra step that didn't use to be there.

Sterling packages are similar in that you have to pick them up from the postmaster, load up your inventory, then hold the button down for the animation to complete. All for a small handful of loot/boosters. Why not let us open them from the postmaster? Why not let us just click a button to open them?

Though to be fair, I've always hated any "hold down for extended period of time" UI mechanics. I don't want to hold a button down for seven seconds to go to Orbit. Let me double click it, give me a "Confirm" option (to avoid accidents), and bam. No idea what designer thinks that it adds a sense of anticipation in a good way, since it's only a barricade between me and what has no reason to be held out of my reach.

I also extend this annoyance to the little "roulette" animation that plays in post-game screens. The game already established (and likely loaded) my rewards, why have us sit there watching an animation play out?

The handful of seconds that each one of these things take add up. That's time that the game is wasting, and less time that folks are spending enjoying the game.
But whatevs.

locked

2053 views

i mostly agree, i think the long press for going to orbit gives your team time to realize what is happening and ask you to stop. Double tapping to go to orbit would make me rage if i was turning in a quest or something.

locked

2002 views

i mostly agree, i think the long press for going to orbit gives your team time to realize what is happening and ask you to stop. Double tapping to go to orbit would make me rage if i was turning in a quest or something.

And it takes longer the more people you have with you. A clever design, I think.

It's similar for collecting materials or opening chests. The long press allows you time to stop if your teammate tells you to not pick it up yet.

locked

1987 views

Except when he forgets he's not party lead and just bails on his raid group by accident ^_^

locked

1963 views

Except when he forgets he's not party lead and just bails on his raid group by accident ^_^

LOL. And let's not count the number of times I've accidentally booted Destroyo trying to make him party leader.

locked

1958 views

- No text -

locked

1975 views

I also extend this annoyance to the little "roulette" animation that plays in post-game screens. The game already established (and likely loaded) my rewards, why have us sit there watching an animation play out?

Yeah, Apple lets you disable animations! Why not Destiny?

defaults write -g NSAutomaticWindowAnimationsEnabled -bool false
defaults write -g NSScrollAnimationEnabled -bool false
defaults write -g NSWindowResizeTime -float 0.001
defaults write -g QLPanelAnimationDuration -float 0
defaults write -g NSScrollViewRubberbanding -bool false
defaults write -g NSDocumentRevisionsWindowTransformAnimation -bool false
defaults write -g NSToolbarFullScreenAnimationDuration -float 0
defaults write -g NSBrowserColumnAnimationSpeedMultiplier -float 0
defaults write com.apple.dock autohide-time-modifier -float 0
defaults write com.apple.dock autohide-delay -float 0
defaults write com.apple.dock expose-animation-duration -float 0
defaults write com.apple.dock springboard-show-duration -float 0
defaults write com.apple.dock springboard-hide-duration -float 0
defaults write com.apple.dock springboard-page-duration -float 0
defaults write com.apple.finder DisableAllAnimations -bool true
defaults write com.apple.Mail DisableSendAnimations -bool true
defaults write com.apple.Mail DisableReplyAnimations -bool true

locked

2048 views

Somewhere in the world, an UI embellisher just got a lot sadder

locked

1992 views

- No text -

locked

1979 views

Delays and unnecessary embellishments/extra steps are indeed a bad thing. A UI should be neat, efficient, and above all, helpful.

I swear to god this is an exact quote from the art professor who taught my UI design class back in college.

locked

2030 views

Delays and unnecessary embellishments/extra steps are indeed a bad thing. A UI should be neat, efficient, and above all, helpful.

Oh they are helpful. Just helpful for Bungie, but not for YOU, as Cruel's post did in fact posit :-)

locked

1991 views

Interesting observations.

Also note that chinko is slang for penis in Japanese. So you can't have pachinko games without a little bit of dickishness.

locked

2031 views

I might be saying it wrong.

locked

2054 views

Yeah, it's an immersion breaker. Why isn't this started by Saladin handing you the book, rather than the book being an extra "tracker" that you get along the way? Why is the book sealed? That's pretty specific terminology.

I think I understand how it got that way though. The devs that are making the book have had that delegated to them and aren't part of the full team doing the expansion. So there's little communication and such. It's a "Hey, that was really cool for SRL, can we do that for Rise of Iron too? Can you guys do that for us?" kind of thing.

locked

2006 views

Yeah, it's an immersion breaker. Why isn't this started by Saladin handing you the book, rather than the book being an extra "tracker" that you get along the way? Why is the book sealed? That's pretty specific terminology.

I think I understand how it got that way though. The devs that are making the book have had that delegated to them and aren't part of the full team doing the expansion. So there's little communication and such. It's a "Hey, that was really cool for SRL, can we do that for Rise of Iron too? Can you guys do that for us?" kind of thing.

And the devs aren't going to say "Yeah, I can totally do that, but doesn't it break the player immersion?" They are only going to think if it's possible to do, because frankly they have to assume that the reason they were given it is because it passed all the checks to fit in with story/game play

locked

1997 views

locked

2174 views

- No text -

locked

1980 views

- No text -

locked

1958 views

Not me.

locked

1958 views

I don’t get it. Why did it have to be stupid big?

locked

1960 views

- No text -

locked

1982 views

maybe by the speaker, or down stairs in the hunters' lounge. Once a book is complete, store it in the library. Then you don't have to delete it, and for those that are sentimental, they don't have to take up vault space with.

what books have there been so far?
SRL
Y2 Moments
??
Rise of Iron

locked

1979 views

Which might be the case...

Yeah. I'm REALLY turned off by some of the design decisions in Year 2. Sterling Treaure animations ARE LITERALLY THE WORST. I cringe every time I open one. I don't mind the book idea, but I hate that it takes up a very precious spot in my inventory and yeah, the interaction with it (crack the seal), no just no. Keep it clean, keep it clear, keep it Destiny. This isn't some arcade machine designed to take your money... Oh wait... Well only one part of the game is that way.

locked

1984 views

This screenshot is the first I’m seeing of the RoI book, and I didn’t have any problem with the “Break Seal” function.

That said, I’ve always thought that the Sterling Treasures are awfully “gamey” with their animation/sound effects, combined with the fact that you can spend real money to purchase them.

locked

1994 views

This screenshot is the first I’m seeing of the RoI book, and I didn’t have any problem with the “Break Seal” function.

That said, I’ve always thought that the Sterling Treasures are awfully “gamey” with their animation/sound effects, combined with the fact that you can spend real money to purchase them.

It's a huge pain.

I don't ever want anything in the sterling treasure boxes, but I can't discard them. So you have have to wait for a long ass animation for it to open only so I can throw it away.

Destiny needs a way to just completely drop things form your inventory in one step. Because I hate the interface when I have to throw away chroma one at a time.

locked

2006 views

Destiny needs a way to just completely drop things form your inventory in one step. Because I hate the interface when I have to throw away chroma one at a time.

Like discarding things from the postmaster.

locked

1993 views

This screenshot is the first I’m seeing of the RoI book, and I didn’t have any problem with the “Break Seal” function.

That said, I’ve always thought that the Sterling Treasures are awfully “gamey” with their animation/sound effects, combined with the fact that you can spend real money to purchase them.

It's a huge pain.

I don't ever want anything in the sterling treasure boxes, but I can't discard them. So you have have to wait for a long ass animation for it to open only so I can throw it away.

Destiny needs a way to just completely drop things form your inventory in one step. Because I hate the interface when I have to throw away chroma one at a time.

I think someone (korny?) suggested holding X(A) to use, Square(X) to discard, which would be a big improvement.

locked

1984 views

I don't ever want anything in the sterling treasure boxes, but I can't discard them. So you have have to wait for a long ass animation for it to open only so I can throw it away.

Imagine how i felt after a 5 month hiatus ;)

[image]

locked

2003 views

You have to access your character each week for the Sterling Treasure to appear at the Postmaster. Nice try, tho. ;-)

locked

2001 views

You have to access your character each week for the Sterling Treasure to appear at the Postmaster. Nice try, tho. ;-)

If by "access" you mean "log into Bungie.net"

locked

1992 views

You have to access your character each week for the Sterling Treasure to appear at the Postmaster. Nice try, tho. ;-)

If by "access" you mean "log into Bungie.net"

Or use the app. Either way, you have to specifically do something to get the Treasures.

locked

1950 views

- No text -

locked

1891 views

- No text -

locked

1880 views

I log in maybe once a month and I always have a small pile waiting.

locked

1958 views

You have to access your character each week for the Sterling Treasure to appear at the Postmaster. Nice try, tho. ;-)

[image]

http://destinytracker.com/destiny/games/1/4611686018429571115/2305843009216986310?page=1

3/1/16 to 7/30/16

and yes, i tried to log into the android app once a week, but the disc was never in my xbox ;)

as you can see here, i stayed busy with other things

[image]

locked

1954 views

- No text -

locked

1888 views

The only change I wish they'd make for the books is moving them to the Missions section instead.

locked

1981 views

The only change I wish they'd make for the books is moving them to the Missions section instead.

I agree, and they should considered account wide mission. Because they are just that.

locked

1931 views

The RoI book is account based, just like the SRL Record Book.

locked

1962 views

The RoI book is account based, just like the SRL Record Book.

Well so is the Moments of Triumph, but that's an Item. I'm saying that if it is a quest, it should be an account based Quest (if that's possible)

locked

1961 views

The RoI book is account based, just like the SRL Record Book.

Well so is the Moments of Triumph, but that's an Item. I'm saying that if it is a quest, it should be an account based Quest (if that's possible)

Wasn't that how the SRL book was? I'm pretty sure it was. the RoI book will be though from what they say in GI: "'The Record Book is account based,' [Scott] Taylor adds. 'If you decide you want to do one piece as a hunter, another as a warlock, you don't have to worry about missing something - it's however you want to play.' Complete a task with one character, and you get the designated reward for all your classes."

locked

1941 views

The RoI book is account based, just like the SRL Record Book.

Well so is the Moments of Triumph, but that's an Item. I'm saying that if it is a quest, it should be an account based Quest (if that's possible)

Wasn't that how the SRL book was? I'm pretty sure it was. the RoI book will be though from what they say in GI: "'The Record Book is account based,' [Scott] Taylor adds. 'If you decide you want to do one piece as a hunter, another as a warlock, you don't have to worry about missing something - it's however you want to play.' Complete a task with one character, and you get the designated reward for all your classes."

Awesome! That's what I like to hear! I also never purchased the SLR book, so I had no idea how that worked.

locked

1933 views

The RoI book is account based, just like the SRL Record Book.

Well so is the Moments of Triumph, but that's an Item. I'm saying that if it is a quest, it should be an account based Quest (if that's possible)

Wasn't that how the SRL book was? I'm pretty sure it was. the RoI book will be though from what they say in GI: "'The Record Book is account based,' [Scott] Taylor adds. 'If you decide you want to do one piece as a hunter, another as a warlock, you don't have to worry about missing something - it's however you want to play.' Complete a task with one character, and you get the designated reward for all your classes."

Awesome! That's what I like to hear! I also never purchased the SLR book, so I had no idea how that worked.

This is misleading. You still have to transfer the book to the character who completed the thing, just like with the Y2 moments book.

locked

1960 views

This is misleading. You still have to transfer the book to the character who completed the thing, just like with the Y2 moments book.

You didn't have to transfer the book with the MoT, you could obtain a copy for each character that contained your progress for free from the Eververse trading co, and continued to track progress on all three characters (the one exception being the fragments of course which you had to get all of on a single character). Plus, according to all reports I heard all you really had to do was login to all three characters before continuing working on it, you didn't even have to get the record book. We also don't know how "misleading" it is since the RoI book isn't even out yet or did I misunderstand and you meant the SRL book?

locked

1926 views

This is misleading. You still have to transfer the book to the character who completed the thing, just like with the Y2 moments book.

You didn't have to transfer the book with the MoT, you could obtain a copy for each character that contained your progress for free from the Eververse trading co, and continued to track progress on all three characters (the one exception being the fragments of course which you had to get all of on a single character). Plus, according to all reports I heard all you really had to do was login to all three characters before continuing working on it, you didn't even have to get the record book. We also don't know how "misleading" it is since the RoI book isn't even out yet or did I misunderstand and you meant the SRL book?

No misunderstanding on your part. I had to shuffle the book between my guys to get the things for them; I was not aware that there was any way to get extra copies.

locked

1928 views

SLR book

locked

1946 views

- No text -

locked

1899 views

What if in D2 books will replace Mission Questlines. You could still have quests for side characters and weapons. But The Dark Below, for instance, gets its own book. And when you complete it you place it on a shelf. It could track stats like fastest time or most kills and you can go back and look at it, then try to do better.

locked

1928 views

- No text -

locked

1928 views

- No text -

locked

1929 views

I also think Hedge's second comment is particularly insightful. Inconsistencies in the UI stand out because generally, Destiny's UI is stellar.

The first time I opened one of those sterling treasures, I was like, "who put Monument freaking Valley in my Destiny?" I've opened only a few since, which may be why I'm not 335. (I don't know.)

I mostly agree with you, Cruel, and although I like the books, I think I'd find them cumbersome for anything other than special one-offs like SRL or the Moments of Triumph. This worries me if I'm supposed to track regular activities with a book.

locked

2012 views

I mostly agree with you, Cruel, and although I like the books, I think I'd find them cumbersome for anything other than special one-offs like SRL or the Moments of Triumph. This worries me if I'm supposed to track regular activities with a book.

When we first got a book for SRL, I thought it made total sense. It was this side activity, and more importantly, it was an in-universe special event. Having a record book also fits thematically with this kind of sporting event idea.

But having a record book for campaign progress feels different to me. it feels like unnecessary "gamification". I do understand the role they fill (I like the idea of being able to quickly and easily track my progress), but Destiny's UI already has several different avenues of progress tracking. The quest screen, bounties, the "mission" items in our inventory screen, the quest Kiosk in the tower. I'd rather see our RoI progress tracked through any of those avenues.

locked

1951 views

- No text -

locked

1925 views

[image]

Bungie! HIRE THAT MAN! HIRE HIM!

locked

1960 views

So poor choice.

Anyway. I like the little box animations, it makes it feel a little special opening it compared to the Nth engram at the crypt arch, which I often don't even bother to look at before I shard it. I am a bit irritated that after all this time getting them I still have incomplete Warlock and Titan sets, and their source is bit of a mystery. There isn't a good link to the lore so it does highlight the fact I'm in a game and breaks immersion a bit.

The record books harken in part back to some of the alpha game footage, where each quest was basically a story, and filled out a section of your guardian's story. I wish I could find a picture of it but for some reason it resists my google foo with cold, dead spite.

I think that a book that filled out the lore of the game as you played through missions and gave more detail on the rewards you were getting would be amazing. Especially if the text changed to match some of the achievements of your character (i.e. completing the mission to stop oryx would give one ending, but killing him in hard mode would change it and add more depth).

of course right now the books are just these little add on inventory items because I feel Bungie is still using somewhat crude tools to implement them. Perhaps Destiny 2 we will get them, perhaps not.

I would love to get what I thought Destiny was going to be, Skyrim in space with Halo style combat. We really need the world to expand, to become more interactive, then these little UI flourishes will be unnecessary.

locked

1925 views

But having a record book for campaign progress feels different to me. it feels like unnecessary "gamification". I do understand the role they fill (I like the idea of being able to quickly and easily track my progress), but Destiny's UI already has several different avenues of progress tracking. The quest screen, bounties, the "mission" items in our inventory screen, the quest Kiosk in the tower. I'd rather see our RoI progress tracked through any of those avenues.

I think they are trying to make certain activities feel more special than others?
"We" told them that very few tasks or guns "we" have completed or acquired have been significant enough to re-tell the story of or made us feel like "we" have "Become Legend"?

locked

1915 views

But having a record book for campaign progress feels different to me. it feels like unnecessary "gamification". I do understand the role they fill (I like the idea of being able to quickly and easily track my progress), but Destiny's UI already has several different avenues of progress tracking. The quest screen, bounties, the "mission" items in our inventory screen, the quest Kiosk in the tower. I'd rather see our RoI progress tracked through any of those avenues.

I think they are trying to make certain activities feel more special than others?
"We" told them that very few tasks or guns "we" have completed or acquired have been significant enough to re-tell the story of or made us feel like "we" have "Become Legend"?

Could be, although I'd say things like exotic quests and better storytelling + mission design is the way to achieve that (which Bungie, to their credit, has been pushing towards).

I see things like record books as a result of Bungie realizing "oh, people really like STUFF. Getting stuff, opening stuff, collecting stuff, etc". To be clear, I have no problem with the ostensible function of the books... It's the way that function is presented that is immersion-breaking to me.

locked

1950 views

I've opened only a few since, which may be why I'm not 335. (I don't know.)

It isn't. All the Sterling Treasure items start at 3 light.

locked

1950 views

The first time I opened one of those sterling treasures, I was like, "who put Monument freaking Valley in my Destiny?" I've opened only a few since, which may be why I'm not 335. (I don't know.)

I like the art that they used for the animation and stuff, but the pause is rather jarring. Jarring, almost like 'Quick Time Events' during game cinematics.

I have 30 some Sterling Treasures built up. I've opened a couple of them in the past. Sterling Treasure never seem to drop anything that is at level. So they would not help you (or me) at all get to 335. It always seems to be items that feature Taken style or Chroma to "look cool" that start at level 3 and need to be fully infused.

Does anyone have any suggestion for opening Sterling Treasures? Should I open them all before Rise Of Iron drops? Will they be no good after Rise Of Iron?
Should I wait until after Rise Of Iron because they will get a new loot pool, updated light levels, new Chroma colors, etc??

I still have a few unopened Festival Of The Lost 'Worn Sacks'. I opened one recently out of curiosity and it automatically decodes only to rotten candy. I still have 2 'Mask Tasks' stuck in my quest tracker that I'd like to finish off. I also have the quest for my SRL License unfinished - 1 win needed. Plus 2 SRL bounties in my Bounty tracker.
I damn well better be able to finish these tasks when the events come around again or I will not be a very happy camper. I have been hanging onto these for this long and I'm not abandoning them.

locked

1928 views

I think the only 'useful' items you can get out of those are rep boosters. Well, I guess you could get ugly gear with good perks.

As for holding onto them? No idea. I open mine immediately because I'm a crazy person.

locked

1930 views

I have 30 some Sterling Treasures built up. I've opened a couple of them in the past. Sterling Treasure never seem to drop anything that is at level. So they would not help you (or me) at all get to 335. It always seems to be items that feature Taken style or Chroma to "look cool" that start at level 3 and need to be fully infused.

Does anyone have any suggestion for opening Sterling Treasures? Should I open them all before Rise Of Iron drops? Will they be no good after Rise Of Iron?
Should I wait until after Rise Of Iron because they will get a new loot pool, updated light levels, new Chroma colors, etc??

I would just open them now. They definitely won't have updated light levels, they are purposefully set at 3 so that they couldn't possibly give someone who bought them a light level boost. I assume you'll still be able to open them (otherwise people would complain if for some reason bought one and didn't open it before RoI drops), but even if they add something to the pool I'm guessing just like previous stuff that they are determined when you get them instead of when you open them. RoI is actually going to have new treasure called "radiant treasure" (from GI issue) which I assume will be the expansion's version of sterling treasure, meaning I doubt anything new will be added to sterling treasures.

locked

1967 views

How crazy is it that we still don't have in-game grimiore?

locked

1929 views

How crazy is it that we still don't have in-game grimiore?

See, that's a perfect example of where having a book (or tablet) would make perfect sense both functionally and in-universe.

locked

1944 views

This fact makes me so upset. The one part of the game with interesting characters, plot, history, and mystery, and it's not actually part of the game at all.

locked

1902 views

Back to the forum index

RSS Feed of thread

DBO Forums

Am I totally crazy, or does this bug you too? (Destiny)

Yes. Destiny should be Zork, the MMO.