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GI article: Table discussion with RoI's writers. (Destiny)
by Korny , Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Friday, August 12, 2016, 18:26 (3118 days ago)
highlights?
by General Battuta, Friday, August 12, 2016, 20:13 (3118 days ago) @ Korny
I don't see a transcript and can't listen right now - anything cool?
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highlights?
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, August 12, 2016, 20:38 (3118 days ago) @ General Battuta
I don't see a transcript and can't listen right now - anything cool?
Yeah. No closed captions in the video!
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highlights?
by Xenos , Shores of Time, Friday, August 12, 2016, 21:20 (3118 days ago) @ General Battuta
Reddit as usual comes through for a list of highlights: https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/4xf7nr/game_informer_an_exclusive_roundtable_with/d6f5ar7
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highlights?
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Saturday, August 13, 2016, 02:00 (3117 days ago) @ General Battuta
The Reddit post kinda bullet points what they talked about, but of course it doesn't capture the whole thing. Some thoughts:
- They briefly mentioned how the characters in current day Destiny are aware that the weapons and technologies they have access to now are like stone tools compared to what Humanity had in the Golden Age.
- Talked a little about how Eva Levante is kinda this character that is just so excited to be in the tower and around Guardians.
- They sorta said that there were less cinematics in Destiny in the beginning because they were unsure of their story and unsure with how much cutscene content should be in the game.
- Talked a bit about how SIVA is a thing that perhaps isn't itself evil but can cause disaster depending on who is using it and how they are using it. One of the Game Informer articles in the last week mentioned how SIVA is related to and a more advanced or concrete form of the idea behind engrams and data being convertible to matter. In this interview, they talked very briefly about the Iron Lords wanting to use SIVA to rebuild the Golden Age. Given that they had to sacrifice themselves to contain it, clearly something went very wrong with that plan...
- They did mention that the things we have done, like killing Crota and Oryx are historic events in themselves. That they are history being made in the present. And how one of the new characters in the new social space is something of a historian who is partially there because the things we have done are historic.
- Talked about how not all Guardians are the same age. That some like the Iron Lords existed before the formation of The City and some like Efrideet and, of course, the player are much younger Guardians.
- Had a brief lightning round with some fun questions like will we find out where Xur comes from (maybe) is there something cool we don't know about the Ahamkara (yes) was Mara Sov's plan a bad plan since it ended with her murdered and her fleet wiped out (they very nearly flat out said Mara Sov is still alive, saying "she'd be mad at you calling her plan bad if she saw this interview") and if they knew who the Exo Stranger was talking to on the radio when she didn't have time to explain (yes).
Most interesting to me was the bits and pieces that were revealed about the Dark Age (the time after the collapse but before The City). We already knew that there was a time where humanity was scattered after the collapse and warlords held territory and caused trouble and eventually Guardians established The City. What I didn't know was some of these warlords were themselves people who had Ghosts and were using their powers (and presumably their near immortality) to rule over others. It was the Iron Lords who got together and fought the warlords and established The City as a safe place for Humanity and who sorta defined what it means to even be a Guardian. This also means that Guardians like Saladin have been alive for centuries and that Dredgen Yor was not the only person with a Ghost to be corrupt. Make me wonder if Shin Malphur and the other notable Guardians we've read about in the Grimoire could possibly still be alive.
Finally, throughout the interview there was mention of and a sense of the writting team having a lot of great stories they wanted to tell. That Destiny's story is big and multifaceted and epic. And that the challenge is how to weave these stories of the past into the things the player is doing in the present. It was encouraging the see the enthusiasm they had and also made me think that maybe we need some novels so we can have some awesome Destiny stories without having to wait on each new game release.
Ghosted people are immortal?
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So wait.
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Saturday, August 13, 2016, 02:45 (3117 days ago) @ Funkmon
Signs point to yes. One of the first things your Ghost tells you once you reach the Tower is that The City took centuries to build. There's plenty of other references to similarly long periods of time having passed since the collapse. It seems pretty clear that some Guardians have lived for hundreds of years since being found by their Ghosts, but do they age, die and get brought back to life again and again, or are Guardians frozen at the age they were when their Ghosts first revived them?
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I assumed it was just a really poorly thought out story.
by Funkmon , Saturday, August 13, 2016, 04:33 (3117 days ago) @ Ragashingo
- No text -
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So wait.
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, August 13, 2016, 14:09 (3117 days ago) @ Ragashingo
Well, during the golden age human lifespans tripled. It's not that strange then that a guardian could live hundreds of years.
But we also have Exo guardians. Presumably they don't age at all making the question perhaps nonsensical.
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So wait.
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Saturday, August 13, 2016, 14:23 (3117 days ago) @ Cody Miller
The Awoken also apparently live a really long time. There's some description text on one of the class items that has an Awoken wondering why they live so long. And yeah, Exos probably have a extremely lengthy lifetime. Cayde-6 (as an Exo), for instance, was body guard to Maya Sunderesh on Venus back during the Golden Age.
At a sheer minimum the Golden Age must have lasted 300 years (or how else would we know our lifespans had tripled?) and it must be 200 years or more since the Collapse (or else The City couldn't have taken "centuries" to build). Given that, and that Saladin is aged but not elderly, I think there's got to be some Light-based slowed aging for Guardians going on here, not just the Golden Age tripling of lifespans.
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So wait.
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, August 13, 2016, 14:30 (3117 days ago) @ Ragashingo
And yeah, Exos probably have a extremely lengthy lifetime. Cayde-6 (as an Exo), for instance, was body guard to Maya Sunderesh on Venus back during the Golden Age.
Which makes me wonder why our account of the golden age is so sketchy. Why not just… ask the Exos who lived in it?
And yeah, Exos probably have a extremely lengthy lifetime. Cayde-6 (as an Exo), for instance, was body guard to Maya Sunderesh on Venus back during the Golden Age.
Which makes me wonder why our account of the golden age is so sketchy. Why not just… ask the Exos who lived in it?
RIP Kenny Baker
by Pyromancy , Sunday, August 14, 2016, 05:35 (3116 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
- No text -
And yeah, Exos probably have a extremely lengthy lifetime. Cayde-6 (as an Exo), for instance, was body guard to Maya Sunderesh on Venus back during the Golden Age.
Which makes me wonder why our account of the golden age is so sketchy. Why not just… ask the Exos who lived in it?
The Exos we know now were deactivated at some point, and brought back to life by Ghosts (some of them through fixing them, some of them using the power of the Traveler). They actually lost their memories and many people are attempting to help them recover them, with very limited amounts of success. This seems like a cop out, but it's pretty in line with beings brought back to life by Ghosts, they seem to remember little if anything about their previous life.
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So wait.
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Saturday, August 13, 2016, 15:01 (3117 days ago) @ Xenos
Yep. And there's whole groups of Warlocks and Exos who are doing experiments with death and Ghost revival who are gleaning some memories from beyond...
The scary question here is: Do we not remember because that's how being revived the first time works, or because something (the Traveler? the Darkness?) doesn't want us to remember??
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So wait.
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Saturday, August 13, 2016, 14:58 (3117 days ago) @ Cody Miller
And yeah, Exos probably have a extremely lengthy lifetime. Cayde-6 (as an Exo), for instance, was body guard to Maya Sunderesh on Venus back during the Golden Age.
Which makes me wonder why our account of the golden age is so sketchy. Why not just… ask the Exos who lived in it?
Because they don't remember. Many of them have had their memory wiped several times. (Cayde-6, Lakshmi-2, etc). For instance, from Cayde-6's journal:
Spend some time with an Exo who';s been through it like we have and you'll see all the tells.
We've got issues
See, the reboots, they don't wipe it all away. Not everything. And the new life – plus the Light – does something real funny to what's left. Amplifies it, scrambles it, reshuffles the fragments like a dealer riffling a deck of cards, putting the hands we've already won and lost back into play.
Most of us do what we can on our own to forget.
Let the itch go unscratched.
Me? I learned long ago you gotta play the hand you're dealt.
So, here's a little bit of what I remember. Strike that.
Here's a little bit of what I know.
It ain't all right, but I'll be damned if it ain't the truth.
Signs point to yes. One of the first things your Ghost tells you once you reach the Tower is that The City took centuries to build. There's plenty of other references to similarly long periods of time having passed since the collapse. It seems pretty clear that some Guardians have lived for hundreds of years since being found by their Ghosts, but do they age, die and get brought back to life again and again, or are Guardians frozen at the age they were when their Ghosts first revived them?
I was unsure before, but now I assume that we are frozen at our age, mostly because of the latest Rise of Iron trailer with Saladin. For being REALLY old, he looks fairly young.
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The ghost can rebuild you from scratch
by Durandal, Sunday, August 14, 2016, 15:08 (3116 days ago) @ Funkmon
I would assume it could do things like add a few pairs to the end of your telomeres every so often and bump off any cancerous cells while doing so. So like a lobster, you are functionally immortal.
Likewise humans via genetic engineering have been adjusted to live over 130 years. Awoken live even longer, due to being trapped between pulses of Light and Dark and having that mess with them.
The initial concept was that the golden age lasted a long time. Long enough for several small wars to break out and be resolved, and for exploration of other star systems. The city itself took time to build, even after gathering people to it, several hundred years at least.
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The ghost can rebuild you from scratch
by uberfoop , Seattle-ish, Sunday, August 14, 2016, 18:50 (3116 days ago) @ Durandal
So like a lobster, you are functionally immortal.
Lobsters aren't actually immortal. Every moult is deadlier than the last, and it appears that if they live long enough, they just stop moulting and thus deteriorate. While they do seem to stay active as they get old, they technically experience senescence.
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The ghost can rebuild you from scratch
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, August 14, 2016, 19:44 (3116 days ago) @ uberfoop
I did not know that lobsters were considered immortal... I thought they were just something people ate. :)
A lobster's cells do not have set limit for reproduction, so if they could generate enough energy to molt, they could do so without limit. Molting is very energy costly, so they do have an upper limit on how old they can get before they can't sustain it.
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The one thing I didn't like... re:Pilot Episodes
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, August 14, 2016, 20:19 (3116 days ago) @ Korny
As I said before, a lot of the conversation was fun and energetic and insightful. But at one point they talked about how they kinda viewed Destiny 1 as a pilot episode and as a place where they could lay out all their characters so they could then focus on them in more detail later. I didn't like this line of thinking, because there's no reason for a pilot episode to be bad.
Firefly's two pilot episodes (Serenity, and The Train Job) were both excellent. The "pilot" for the new Battlestar Galatic (its four episode miniseries) was amazing. Even the pilot for Babylon 5 (The Gathering, which was clearly a bit woobly and budget constrained) had a lot of good story and world building. Keeping it in the realm of video games, Halo: CE's 2nd mission (Halo) was great. As were Halo 2's (Outskirts), Halo 3's (Crow's Nest), ODST's (Tayari Plaza) and Reach's (ONI: Sword Base).
Destiny's first mission was what we'd come to expect from Bungie, but it's 2nd (the one where you kill the archon to get your NLS Drive)... I was pretty dang disappointed when the ending timer came up only a couple minutes of gameplay all the way back during the beta. Yes, some missions, like taking out the House of Winter's Kell or activating the Vex spire deep within the Cabal base, or the Exo Stranger mysteriously not having time to explain were pretty good, too many of them were "go to place, shot thing, mission ends." I'm not nearly as down on the playability of Destiny's year 1 missions as some are, but I don't think they would have made Destiny a successful pilot. It was Destiny's incredibly strong core gameplay and sci-fi styling that kept it going, not its year one story...
Yes, there's now something of an established world for the writers to play in, but setting up that world in the fairly lackluster way that Bungie did isn't something to be played up, in my opinion. The Grimoire has been great all along. The story and missions within the game? They took a while, in my opinion...
That said, I do have a lot of Hope for the Future. (Because that joke never gets old!)
All the Halo's are pretty much a linear path with a very specific story. What I gather from the various rumors is that Destiny initially had this very linear story, and that late in production they dropped that concept for a more open world experience where players wouldn't have to do missions in order.
That late change in direction didn't give them too much time to refine and rebuild things, and they have wandered into somewhat unknown territory. The only real models for it are RPGs, or Borderlands. Borderlands has a very linear plot, and is the closest to Destiny's current form, but is very focused on the four archetype characters and the main enemy. Exploration is a bit limited.
I'm really hoping that Destiny 2 adds NPCs out in the wilderness, and really expands upon the world spaces you can zoom around in.
I'd really love a halo 4 Spartan Ops show, where you played weekly with new cutscenes and story continuation, but Microsoft Dropped that pretty quickly and I wonder how expensive it was vs. the return. Likewise Sci-fy's Defiance had a tie in game. I don't think anyone has gotten an interactive series to work yet, but I imagine sooner or later a it will happen.
The only real models for it are RPGs, or Borderlands. Borderlands has a very linear plot, and is the closest to Destiny's current form, but is very focused on the four archetype characters and the main enemy. Exploration is a bit limited.
I don't think exploration in Borderlands is any more limited than in Destiny. It certainly feels a lot more coherent, though. The issue with Destiny is the multiple planets. Borderlands feels more coherent because everything is connected, and I think that makes the entire available playspace feel a lot larger.
I'm really hoping that Destiny 2 adds NPCs out in the wilderness, and really expands upon the world spaces you can zoom around in.
That's the one thing I keep hoping for, too. I'd love a more Borderlands like structure with NPCs out in the world, giving quests, some small settlements to encounter, etc. Destiny is in this weird in-between state between a full blown RPG and a straight shooter, and I think Bungie really needs to pick a direction and lean into it more.
Although, as I've said before, I think Destiny isn't actually the game I want (nor is it supposed to be), and I've got to deal with that.
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Open world vs. linear path
by Xenos , Shores of Time, Sunday, August 14, 2016, 23:57 (3116 days ago) @ cheapLEY
Although, as I've said before, I think Destiny isn't actually the game I want (nor is it supposed to be), and I've got to deal with that.
That's a way too mature attitude for the Internet ;)
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The one thing I didn't like... re:Pilot Episodes
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Monday, August 15, 2016, 21:40 (3115 days ago) @ Ragashingo
Many pilot episodes are rough around the edges, or it's clear from watching them that the show wasn't sure about what it was yet or what it was to become. That's the spirit in which I'm understanding the comparison.