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I sympathize Stuntmutt (Destiny)

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, September 30, 2016, 21:15 (3068 days ago)

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I totally feel you man.

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I sympathize Stuntmutt

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Friday, September 30, 2016, 23:28 (3068 days ago) @ Cody Miller

MFW all of my characters are 368-374, and I wasn't forced to play at gunpoint...

It's almost like going into the raid at a sensible light level wasn't too difficult or grindy. Cody's been raid-ready 18 light-levels ago...

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I sympathize Stuntmutt

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 02:22 (3068 days ago) @ Korny

MFW all of my characters are 368-374, and I wasn't forced to play at gunpoint...

It's almost like going into the raid at a sensible light level wasn't too difficult or grindy. Cody's been raid-ready 18 light-levels ago...

It's recommended 370 light, which we all know means that the dudes by the end will be 380. Yup. 345 is totally enough. To go any higher than that you have to grind strikes.

345 really is enough

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 02:47 (3068 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Chaos was about that region and still did fine. Actually, he was invaluble - strategy is mich more important than LL in this raid.

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345 really is enough

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 03:33 (3068 days ago) @ someotherguy

Chaos was about that region and still did fine. Actually, he was invaluble - strategy is mich more important than LL in this raid.

Don't forget that Otter (or Argent?) wasn't much higher, and he was still a key player.
Light level means little in this raid if your team is on the ball.

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345 really is enough

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 04:05 (3068 days ago) @ Korny

Chaos was about that region and still did fine. Actually, he was invaluble - strategy is mich more important than LL in this raid.


Don't forget that Otter (or Argent?) wasn't much higher, and he was still a key player.
Light level means little in this raid if your team is on the ball.

340 would literally not be able to damage the later enemies in the raid. You also haven't even beaten the raid. The final boss always presents light level problems.

345 really is enough

by Avateur @, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 04:18 (3068 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I'm still spoiler free on this thing (aside from the thing Bungie has shown in its ViDoc and elsewhere that makes people cry tears of ridiculousness because Snape killed Luke Skywalker's father or some garbage). I'm doing the Raid tomorrow, so I can't speak toward any of this. All I know is that for the first time in Destiny, I have run the Strike playlist. I did it for a few hours for two days to get myself to 360. It's very not fun, but I enjoyed my time with my buddies playing. But it's not like this game has anything left to do after this Raid, so I figured I'd bite the bullet to maximize my ability to beat this thing tomorrow. Also, coming from friends of mine who have played and beaten it, they said they wouldn't recommend going in with anyone below 350. And that having people around that level does not help much at the end.

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345 really is enough

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 06:29 (3068 days ago) @ Avateur

This is the crux of the issue. Preparing for he raid fucking sucked. 355, 370, whatever your level. Again, I remind Korny I was 339 upon completion of the story and the side quests. His 350 is either the result of exaggeration, or he did throngs like saved engrams and edged factions or whatever. Even if it isn't, his experience doesn't match mine at all.

To get to a point where you can do the raid, you have to play the strike playlist and grind.

There is no lead into the raid in terms of game progression or story like in TTK. It's a huge step back.

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345 really is enough

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 05:14 (3068 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Chaos was about that region and still did fine. Actually, he was invaluble - strategy is mich more important than LL in this raid.


Don't forget that Otter (or Argent?) wasn't much higher, and he was still a key player.
Light level means little in this raid if your team is on the ball.


340 would literally not be able to damage the later enemies in the raid.

What are you on about? You just keep dropping the light down lower and lower to fit your narrative.

You also haven't even beaten the raid. The final boss always presents light level problems.

What gave you that idea? I've beaten the raid several times, each time running someone through for their first time. In fact, Sammy hit 355 when we beat the raid her first time, and in just under two hours, no less. Light levels aren't any more a problem on the final boss, but then, you continue to make statements on things that you know nothing about, as if you'd know better than the people who have actually done it... Repeatedly.

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345 really is enough

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 05:41 (3068 days ago) @ Korny
edited by Cody Miller, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 05:45

340 is as far as you can get without grinding.

340 cannot damage 380 enemies.

Therefore, you cannot complete the raid without grinding. It's very simple. That is the argument.

Your statement about beating it with Sammy as a 355 means nothing if everyone else was in the 370s or high 360s. This is definitely a raid where you can cover for weaker players. Beat the raid with a full group of 355s and then I will believe you when you say that's doable. I don't feel like my light level is a problem at 368, but I had to grind to get there.

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345 really is enough

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 06:00 (3068 days ago) @ Cody Miller

340 is as far as you can get without grinding.

I guess Xur's loot, Faction weapons, Vanguard Ghosts, and Speaker class items just magically don't work on you. *shrug*
Remember that you can easily be above 350 after just finishing the story and side quests (more so if you buy some loot).
Plus, you're the only one whining about 340 Light. I didn't say that you can do the raid with 340s on the team (though honestly, you totally can, since the entire raid has been beaten by a team of three). To say that you can't get higher than 340 without grinding is dumb (do you count playing the game at all as grinding?)


340 cannot damage 380 enemies.

Who said they can? This is irrelevant and dumb.


Therefore, you cannot complete the raid without grinding. It's very simple. That is the argument.

You seem to forget that you get higher-light rewards at each step of the raid. No grinding required! Unless you're willfully pushing through without equipping or infusing any gear, in which case, you only have yourself to blame. Your argument is dumb.


Your statement about beating it with Sammy as a 355 means nothing if everyone else was in the 370s or high 360s. This is definitely a raid where you can cover for weaker players. Beat the raid with a full group of 355s and then I will believe you when you say that's doable. I don't feel like my light level is a problem at 368, but I had to grind to get there.

It was pretty much the same team that we had the first time through (remember that we had two below 355), not really much light-level difference other than what we gained from our first completion (which according to some folks in your group, is a bit out of reach). Your assumptions are dumb.

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345 really is enough

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 06:36 (3068 days ago) @ Korny

None of that stuff you can get without grinding. Vanguard and faction packages require you to grind rep. Xurs loot requires you to grind strange coins. Speakers items legendary marks. The only thing you can get at 350 light that's not a grind are the quest exotics.

So no, that doesn't work for me. I preferred the steady increase in dropped gear that you got in story missions leading you up to the raid so that you were a good level without grinding anything.

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345 really is enough

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 11:38 (3068 days ago) @ Cody Miller

None of that stuff you can get without grinding. Vanguard and faction packages require you to grind rep. Xurs loot requires you to grind strange coins. Speakers items legendary marks. The only thing you can get at 350 light that's not a grind are the quest exotics.

So no, that doesn't work for me. I preferred the steady increase in dropped gear that you got in story missions leading you up to the raid so that you were a good level without grinding anything.

"Boohoo, I have to play the game in order to be able to beat the final boss! Why does Bungie hate me so!"

I never said that you can teleport to the final raid encounter if you simply buy the game and put it into the disk tray. I'm saying that you aren't absolutely forced to do any one thing in the game to level up for the raid. You were grinding endlessly to get your light as high as possible. I said that the raid is doable at 355 (You were 368 when I inspected you), and technically beatable even if you are a 345, which is super easy to get to. You're saying "If you can't beat it with a full team at 340 all using the starting Khvostov, you're lying!" But the game doesn't work that way.

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345 really is enough

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 11:55 (3068 days ago) @ Korny

None of that stuff you can get without grinding. Vanguard and faction packages require you to grind rep. Xurs loot requires you to grind strange coins. Speakers items legendary marks. The only thing you can get at 350 light that's not a grind are the quest exotics.

So no, that doesn't work for me. I preferred the steady increase in dropped gear that you got in story missions leading you up to the raid so that you were a good level without grinding anything.


"Boohoo, I have to play the game in order to be able to beat the final boss! Why does Bungie hate me so!"

Because playing the SIVA Crisis playlist over and over is not my idea of fun. Why did I buy a new DLC if one of the major components is playing OLD STRIKES repeatedly? You don't even have the lluxury in grinding in new spaces! TTK at least had you doing a bunch of stuff on the drednaught during level up.

Your insistence that leveling up is no big deal is just wrong. The game actively goes out of your way to stop you at 340 and 365. TTK did not do this until you had already passed the recommended light level for the raid.

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345 really is enough

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 13:20 (3068 days ago) @ Cody Miller
edited by Korny, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 13:25


Because playing the SIVA Crisis playlist over and over is not my idea of fun. Why did I buy a new DLC if one of the major components is playing OLD STRIKES repeatedly? You don't even have the lluxury in grinding in new spaces! TTK at least had you doing a bunch of stuff on the drednaught during level up.

Some of my highest Light gear I got by doing Archon's Forge, so you're wrong about that too. Crucible drops are not only plentiful, but they're higher Light than what you have, too.


Your insistence that leveling up is no big deal is just wrong. The game actively goes out of your way to stop you at 340 and 365. TTK did not do this until you had already passed the recommended light level for the raid.

According to the data, you put more time into Rise of Iron on your first day than Sammy did in the entire week before she did the Raid. How she magically had higher light than you did is odd, considering that you spent it all grinding (for someone who hates Destiny "outside of raiding", you had over 25 hours of playtime in the first three days. I think you might need some help, man...)

Not only that, but being at such a low light, she only had 19 deaths in the entire raid, counting team wipes (intentional, unintentional, and Lichtonatus-based) and parkour incidents, so she wasn't exactly a weak link. You had ten days to prepare, so you could have easily put a third of the gametime that she did, but you put in over three times more.

Maybe you're just terrible at the game?

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345 really is enough

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 13:48 (3068 days ago) @ Korny
edited by Cody Miller, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 13:52

Maybe I am terrible at the game. Or maybe I didn't save engrams or edge factions or have marks on all my characters to buy gear. That would be power leveling and you hate that. I was 339 after taking my time with the story missions. I was able to buy one thing from the vendor. The rest I had to grind to get.

I am not disagreeing with you that the first two parts of the raid are doable at 350ish. We had 3 around that light, and we never felt as if light was what was holding us back. You are correct there.

However everyone I have talked to says that the last section is a different story, and that you want as many 360s as possible.

I had to grind to get to 350 even. Tell me how you did it without playing strikes over and over. I'm genuinely curious, since you claim to have spent so much less time than I did getting there and I would love to spend as little time as possible on leveling when the game doesn't make it fun. This is a genuine question for you, so please do let me know.

Also as far as I know crucible drops are weapons only? And yes, I did gain a fair bit of levels in the crucible and that was much more fun, but for armor you need strikes.

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345 really is enough

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 14:29 (3067 days ago) @ Cody Miller
edited by Korny, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 14:48

I am not disagreeing with you that the first two parts of the raid are doable at 350ish. We had 3 around that light, and we never felt as if light was what was holding us back. You are correct there.


However everyone I have talked to says that the last section is a different story, and that you want as many 360s as possible.

It's convenient to have as many 360s as possible, but remember that even the last section was three-manned in the first week, and without spoiling anything, you have more than enough wiggle room to accommodate a team with low DPS (the game can give you a free pass if you need it).
"everyone that I talked to". Talk to the three separate teams that I've run the raid with, and they'll no doubt agree that the last boss doesn't cause headaches because of light levels, but because of coordination.


I had to grind to get to 350 even. Tell me how you did it without playing strikes over and over. I'm genuinely curious, since you claim to have spent so much less time than I did getting there and I would love to spend as little time as possible on leveling when the game doesn't make it fun. This is a genuine question for you, so please do let me know.

I was able to get ahold of some high light gear by doing Archon's Forge (Cyber and I ran quite a few with a single group at one point, lots of fun). That's how I got the awesome helmet that I still use, the "But Not Forgotten" sniper (which I got by accident while doing story mission patrol with Sammy the first day), Saladin's Watch fusion Rifle, and high-light class items. Like I've said before, though, I was over 350 before I went to the strike playlist.

After that, I did run strikes, popping three of coins, but they went by quick thanks to Arc burn, and the fact that you're guaranteed two blues at higher Light than what you have up to 365, so as long as you do a few strikes a day, you should have no problem being Raid-ready (note that Sammy didn't really even do that). Still, between that and Crucible, I was 365 in three days before the raid dropped (Cyber was 370, IIRC, and Otter was also raid-ready, and he had school every day that week).
Really, you should be asking Otter how he got raid-ready so quickly, since he played a fraction of what the rest of us played.


Also as far as I know crucible drops are weapons only? And yes, I did gain a fair bit of levels in the crucible and that was much more fun, but for armor you need strikes.

Archon's forge drops different armors and class items (not to mention tons of Engrams). It was a bit hard to play consistently the first week, but the drop rate is great (especially since it's a Public Event, and the offerings have been greatly improved), and if you do Patrol, the Quarantine patrols pay out crazy amounts of rep (and there are lots of them).

I also recommend running Trials. Our very first game, I got a pair of 375 light Gauntlets. As long as you're winning or filling out the bounties (which happens even when you lose), you're getting high loot drops.

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345 really is enough

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 15:21 (3067 days ago) @ Korny

I also recommend running Trials. Our very first game, I got a pair of 375 light Gauntlets. As long as you're winning or filling out the bounties (which happens even when you lose), you're getting high loot drops.

I've made an event for tonight if you or anyone else wants to play with me.

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345 really is enough

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 15:27 (3067 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I also recommend running Trials. Our very first game, I got a pair of 375 light Gauntlets. As long as you're winning or filling out the bounties (which happens even when you lose), you're getting high loot drops.


I've made an event for tonight if you or anyone else wants to play with me.

I'd rather get to the Lighthouse first before carrying you, but yeah, I'll play some with ya.

345 really is enough

by Avateur @, Sunday, October 02, 2016, 06:25 (3067 days ago) @ Cody Miller

So I'm at the final boss with a 366, 365, 360, 364, 364, and 364. Our mechanics are solid. We can't DPS enough to kill the thing. Probably gonna have to wait until next week. Basically, this 345 garbage is garbage. I'm thinking we're going to need at least a few 370 people to get us to the promise land. Also, having started at 360 and only making my way to 364 through the Raid goes to show that the Raid drops aren't gonna do it. Oh well. I look forward to next week.

You're doing something wrong

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Sunday, October 02, 2016, 09:28 (3067 days ago) @ Avateur

Not to be an ass, but you must be. You should be able to do it just fine with those kind of LLs.

What kind of Damage numbers are you seeing on the wipe screen? Maybe you need to adjust your loadout. Or theres a big damage booster that can be found in the room, but I dont want to spoil it. You've probably already found it but maybe you're not using it efficiently?

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WAT. NO. FFFFUUUUUUUUU

by Funkmon @, Monday, October 03, 2016, 06:47 (3066 days ago) @ someotherguy

I do not think we used this.

Surprise!

by rowboat, Birmingham, AL, Sunday, October 02, 2016, 15:12 (3066 days ago) @ Avateur

My suggestion was shot down as not being powerful enough, but turns out I was right.

Sounds like you found your solution

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Sunday, October 02, 2016, 15:50 (3066 days ago) @ rowboat

Ready to eat your words Av?

Sounds like you found your solution

by Avateur @, Sunday, October 02, 2016, 17:50 (3066 days ago) @ someotherguy

Sure. It's about time #avateurwaswrong after all of this story stuff that people have been challenging me on for two years. And my being wrong only benefits me and my group, so I'd love to beat this boss. :D

Best of luck :)

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Sunday, October 02, 2016, 19:35 (3066 days ago) @ Avateur

We initially had DpS issues too. Coordinating your force multipliers is really crucial - we went from not doing enough danage over 5 phases to killing him in just 3.

Keep it up - It's so satisfying when you finally nail him!

Thanks! *Raid SP*

by Avateur @, Sunday, October 02, 2016, 19:37 (3066 days ago) @ someotherguy

Yeah that's the issue we've had. Rowboat and I both actually noticed the things can do a ton of damage, but we wasted it all early before the major damage could kick in during the 3rd teleport. It got really late and we got off. We're gonna give it another try tonight or tomorrow night. At least we know what we're doing and only have to rely on damage at this point. But dang, it seemed like the light level was the main factor last night for real. But hey, the more you know! :D

Done

by Avateur @, Monday, October 03, 2016, 06:04 (3066 days ago) @ Avateur
edited by Avateur, Monday, October 03, 2016, 06:07

It was still a pain in the ass, but we did it. Happy time!

Edit: Wow, Three of Coins totally doesn't work on the final boss. Lameeeeeee.

Im really baffled by how hard you've found it

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 18:45 (3067 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I was >340 just by finishing the story missions. The ridiculously high engram drop rate got me the rest of the way to 350, and only then sid I have to "grind" at all. I cant give you hard numbers, but I got to 364 with only a minimal number of Heroic Strikes (10-15 I think? 20 max, spread over 3 days) and I didnt even do the nightfall, play any crucible or edge any factions.

Maybe Im just luckier than you though?

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Im really baffled by how hard you've found it

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 19:19 (3067 days ago) @ someotherguy

I was >340 just by finishing the story missions. The ridiculously high engram drop rate got me the rest of the way to 350, and only then sid I have to "grind" at all. I cant give you hard numbers, but I got to 364 with only a minimal number of Heroic Strikes (10-15 I think? 20 max, spread over 3 days) and I didnt even do the nightfall, play any crucible or edge any factions.

Maybe Im just luckier than you though?

I did started in the 320s rather than at 335, so it's possible that is the difference.

Lichtonatus-based xD

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 18:40 (3067 days ago) @ Korny

I only killed her once haha. I dont think it even caused a wipe (largely thanks to your self-res, admittedly)

Grind strange coins? Now you're really talking crap

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 11:43 (3068 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Ive never had to grind for SC. they just happen naturally. I have over 800 of the things!

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Grind strange coins? Now you're really talking crap

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 11:58 (3068 days ago) @ someotherguy

Ive never had to grind for SC. they just happen naturally. I have over 800 of the things!

Over what period of time? I get them playing the strike playlist… but I got very few playing the story missions. I don't know why I barely get them. Claude even mentioned once how he gets way more than I do.

I got 70+ since Tuesday

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 18:36 (3067 days ago) @ Cody Miller

And Ive really not played much. I was genuinely surprised to see Id gained so many.

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Do you absolutely HAVE to beat the boss first run?

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Saturday, October 01, 2016, 11:56 (3068 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I guarantee you Light level is only a real problem in the very last encounter. Anywhere else, strategy trumps. If you MUST beat the Raid in your very first run, then sure, you have to grind your Light up. If you're in for the journey (and what a blast this particular journey is) then stop being so worried and run it ASAP.

:)

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Do you absolutely HAVE to beat the boss first run?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 12:00 (3068 days ago) @ ZackDark

I guarantee you Light level is only a real problem in the very last encounter. Anywhere else, strategy trumps. If you MUST beat the Raid in your very first run, then sure, you have to grind your Light up. If you're in for the journey (and what a blast this particular journey is) then stop being so worried and run it ASAP.

:)

I started the raid as a 368 and am a 368 now at what I think is halfway through. I am not leveling up at all during the raid like I did in TTK.

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Odd, you should

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Saturday, October 01, 2016, 12:11 (3068 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I think I dropped only a single armor piece, in retrospect, so you might be on to something. Still, even the second to last encounter can be tackled with 350s somewhat comfortably. Might be a bit hectic, but will still be more fun than frustrating.

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Odd, you should

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, October 01, 2016, 13:50 (3068 days ago) @ ZackDark

I think I dropped only a single armor piece, in retrospect, so you might be on to something. Still, even the second to last encounter can be tackled with 350s somewhat comfortably. Might be a bit hectic, but will still be more fun than frustrating.

So far it's really great. I'm not disagreeing with you guys here. All of our wipes were coordination and strategy issues so far. Even with three people in the 350s that aspect is not weighing on us yet. But I am used to dying over and over until we can figure out a strategy when you run things blind.

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Odd, you should

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Sunday, October 02, 2016, 13:18 (3067 days ago) @ ZackDark

I think I dropped only a single armor piece, in retrospect, so you might be on to something. Still, even the second to last encounter can be tackled with 350s somewhat comfortably. Might be a bit hectic, but will still be more fun than frustrating.

All of the raid drops I've gotten so far were lower light level than my currently equipped items, except for the artifact.

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What LL are you?

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Sunday, October 02, 2016, 13:27 (3067 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

- No text -

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What LL are you?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Sunday, October 02, 2016, 13:36 (3067 days ago) @ ZackDark

I was 365 when I ran the first half of the raid. My drops were all 362-364. I ran strikes to get myself up to 369, then ran the 2nd half of the raid (up to, but not beating the final boss). Got a 371 special weapon, even though I was already using a 372 sniper. Got a 371 artifact which was a huge jump up from the 350-something one I had equipped at the time.

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