Yes, it's one of these posts I'm afraid. This expansion has been excellent in my opnion, but I think it's time we talk about Bungie's cosmetics problem, specifically the Silver Dust economy. I know we're all tired of the "Slippery Slope Conspiracy Theorists v Cosmetics Apologists" arguments, but that's not the route I'm going here, I promise.

To clarify - Yes, I know they're only cosmetic. They have literally zero impact on gameplay so the fact that you can pay for them is fine. That's not what I'm talking about.

This post got pretty long, so there's a Tl;Dr at the bottom if you want to skip ahead to telling me how wrong I am ;P

My issue is that the way in which you go about getting them is garbage. Remember Festival of the Lost last year? With that one mask you had to play the lottery for. That was gross, right? A lottery system designed to take advantage of those players inclined to pay for cosmetics, presumably in the hopes of catching whales with significant disposable income to spend? YUCK.

Well, it would appear that was testing the water for future endeavours, because this year all the cosmetic loot is based on this principle (with the exception of the Flawless and presumably Hard Raid ornaments).

Arguably the saving grace for weapon ornaments is that you can dismantle them and wait for xur to come along with something you'd like instead. But if you're inclined to go the microtransaction route you have to play the Ornament Lottery, with a horrific 1/22 chance of getting what you want. (Reddit will tell you there's an abnormally high likelihood of getting duplicates, but without stats to back that up I'm willing to chalk that up to RNG being RNG). I don't like those odds.

But what about armour? Well, if you want a full set or Born in Fire armour you'll need 7(!) ornaments, all based on RNG. One can be obtained from the RoI book, but the other six will have to come from Radiant Treasures. They're not one of the guaranteed drops (which strangely, works in your favour), so let's be generous and assume a 50% drop rate. Reddit says it's much lower (and I dont know anyone who's received one from their 3 weekly packages so far) but again I don't have any solid evidence. That means it would take 12+ radiant treasures to kit your guradian out in a fancy set of fiery armour, or 2400 Silver. Here in the UK, that's £20 for a set of armour - almost as much as the £25 expansion!

Now so far all of this only applies if you're impatient. You've got a whole year, and if you wait long enough you're (hopefully) bound to get everything you want out of Radiant Packages/Xur. Obviously that's not what Bungie want you to do, but if you're like me and choose not to/are unable to buy Silver, it's an option. Where this doesn't apply, and the reason for this post, is Dusty Iron Engrams.

For those who don't know, you can buy Dusty Iron Engrams from Lord Saladin at 5 Silver Dust apiece, and they decrypt into Y1 Iron Banner armour that can be infused up to current levels. You can't pick which slot you want the gear for, so you then have a 1/15 chance of getting the gear you want per character. That's a measly 7% chance for every Radiant treasure you've opened/purchased. You can't even pick which slot you want to fill, and there is no other way to get these engrams outside of spending Silver Dust.

This is a horrible way to take advantage of those players who are willing to spend extra money. Those people are usually your most hardcore and avid fans, who are happy to put some extra money towards your dev costs in exchange for some cool armour. Locking that armour behind both a paywall and an RNG wall (especially when it's gear they may already own but can't use, having saved it from Y1) is extremely consumer unfriendly.

Tl;Dr - These items are only cosmetic. They don't affect me and I won't be buying them. Providing options for players to purchase cosmetics is a great way to boost your income and provide visual variety, but this current system is the grossest way of doing microtransactions. Better, fairer options exist, and that we're stuck with this one shows a lack of respect for their biggest fans.

I was already self-conscious about the length of that post, so I skipped over:

a) requring more Silver dust to actually equip an ornament, including the trials Flawless ornament, which is otherwise completely separate to the economy.

b) Not getting your ornament or any Silver Dust back if you dismantle gear with an ornament equipped., meaning money spent on that ornament was literally wasted. Which isn't inherently a flaw (Protip: don't throw away the things you bought or you won't have them any more) but is worth mentioning.

My thoughts here are no where near organized or coherent by any means. But I have had this on my mind since launch.

I've played a TON of destiny and I'm quickly approaching the magical number of 2080 hours played in game. That's a whole year of work at a normal 9-5 job. Not sure how I still have a career, girlfriend, life, etc... with that much play time in.

When RoI dropped I picked up 2300 silver to drop into radiant packages and get some of the weapon ornaments along with whatever else I managed to get. I really dislike the RNG+Real Money system in general. Instead of paying $20 to play the lottery, I'd rather just pony up $5 for a weapon skin that I love and be guaranteed that one. In fact, I'd probably pay more money this way then I will with purchasing packages. I don't mind the cosmetic stuff being available for real world money.

With that 2300 silver I picked up 11 Radiant Packages from Eververse. I'm guessing that the ornaments are heavily weighted towards new weapons compared to others. I don't have the exact break down of what I got. but Here's what I still have:

From purchased packages:
- 3 Iron Ornaments
- 2 different skins for the trespasser. (dismantled a 3rd)
- 2 Invective skins of the same type (dismantled 2nd)
- 2 different Nemesis Star Skins.
- 2 Khvostov skins of the same type (dismantled 2nd)
- 1 Telesto skin
- 1 Zhalo Supercell skin

From dropped packages:
- 1 Nemesis Star (duplicate)
- 1 Khvostov skin (duplicate)

Silver Dust Purchases:
- Monochrome Artifact
- Silver Dust to add skins to weapons

I'm not a fan of the system in general. I do appreciate the extra cosmetic stuff being available, I just HATE that it's still RNG based. That's just lazy/bad/punishing design for your players that typically love this game. I'd be fine with the RNG based reward packages if they actually allowed you to straight out buy the ornaments you want and then leave the random weekly ones up to a rng based package.

Some things I'd like to see:
- Purchase ornaments directly instead of RNG. Like emotes are now.
- Give back silver dust/ornaments if you dismantle a piece of gear with them applied.
- RNG based packages as rewards.

This 100 times over. This is what they should be doing. They could even charge more than the current cost of Radiant treasure (Say, 300-400 Silver instead of 200) and that would still be better than RNG I think. It still wouldn't affect me, but it would be far less seedy.

And hey, they might even get more customers from it. People like ease of use. It's why people pay for Netflix or buy on iTunes rather than streaming or downloading illegally. Make your product easy-to-use, easy-to-access and of high enough quality and you'll win over a lot more people than with underhanded tactics.

They'd have to let go of their whale population though, which is what RNG microtransactions exist for in the first place.

Yeah, like a casino they are going after a small subset of people that put a lot of money into the game. South park summarized it pretty well a couple seasons back regarding mobile gaming, which more and more AAA are borrowing from.

For people with common sense or patience, you'll eventually get what you want. But, as you point out they aren't after you, they want that one person who must have it all now, and is willing to spend to roll the dice.

Personally, my first ornament was the spec ops skin for MIDA, so I lucked out and am done now :P

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That's the one I want lol

I'm unfamiliar with all of the details, so thanks for providing what you have. I'm curious if, based on what you know, you think the following viewpoint is inconstant with the facts.

There is an RNG system in game that allows you to slowly acquire in game items.
There is an additional system in game that allows a player to pay to speed up that RNG processes.

Maybe the pay system is more expensive than people want a pay system to be, but it's still a pay system for an RNG system, yes? So I don't think I'm heart broken that those with more disposable income than me (or different priorities) go through the same RNG system I have to. Is this thinking wrong?

I'm unfamiliar with all of the details, so thanks for providing what you have. I'm curious if, based on what you know, you think the following viewpoint is inconstant with the facts.

There is an RNG system in game that allows you to slowly acquire in game items.
There is an additional system in game that allows a player to pay to speed up that RNG processes.

Maybe the pay system is more expensive than people want a pay system to be, but it's still a pay system for an RNG system, yes? So I don't think I'm heart broken that those with more disposable income than me (or different priorities) go through the same RNG system I have to. Is this thinking wrong?

Destiny loot is actually RNG on top of RNG. A Random chance to get an engram and then another random chance to get what you want. In the case of buying stuff, I think people aren't happy that when they pay with money they are only bypassing one of the RNG walls when they should be bypassing both.

That's the one I want lol

Just wait until we get a trading mechanic, okay? Shouldn't take too long for it to happen!

I know it's been said a million times but the best way too make destiny's horribly flawed RNG instantly acceptable is to implement trading. Purchasing a duplicate ornament would at least hold some sort of value at that point...

I know it's been said a million times but the best way too make destiny's horribly flawed RNG instantly acceptable is to implement trading. Purchasing a duplicate ornament would at least hold some sort of value at that point...

I wouldn't even mind if they put some form of necessary payment behind trading, making the system work both ways—an ornament for legendary marks, for example.

EDIT: 777th post!

Maybe I'm missing something. As a non paying player I can easily acquire a radiant treasure every week. RNG on the content still applies.
Alternatively, I can buy a radiant treasure with money, and afaik the same RNG applies.

You pay to not have to wait, or not have to play as much.
So, I can understand if still dealing with RNG makes things more expensive than some people would like, but remember that you're paying to bypass time, nothing else.

You take your infallible logic and get out of here! This is no place for sound reason!

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I've played a TON of destiny and I'm quickly approaching the magical number of 2080 hours played in game. That's a whole year of work at a normal 9-5 job. Not sure how I still have a career, girlfriend, life, etc... with that much play time in.

Are you The Stranger by any chance? That might explain it.

I know some players who did not get the full "taken" set of armor despite playing almost every week. (My son as one example) Time did not get them all the content, and at this point only money will.

Maybe I'm missing something. As a non paying player I can easily acquire a radiant treasure every week. RNG on the content still applies.
Alternatively, I can buy a radiant treasure with money, and afaik the same RNG applies.

You pay to not have to wait, or not have to play as much.
So, I can understand if still dealing with RNG makes things more expensive than some people would like, but remember that you're paying to bypass time, nothing else.

With 100% Perfect RNG on your side it will take you 22 weeks of playing in order to get every weapon skin currently in the game. That's a long time, but theoretically you can get everything in that amount of time.

we currently have a few options for these ornaments:
- one per week per account as a reward for doing the weekly crucible playlist
- purchase a radiant treasure for $2 (200 Silver)
- Buy from Xur with silver dust (don't remember the cost)

The best case scenario currently for the quickest method to get all of the ornaments is you could have bought 21 packages ($42) and gotten the other one via your rewards package. Since RNG is pretty horrific over the course of destiny in order to get what you want, this case will 99.9% never happen. It's a statistical anomaly if that would actually happen.

When you add in RNG for getting the ornaments of iron also, the progress just gets pushed out even more.

The other problem with these packages is that these items are one time use only. you dismantle something... then too bad. No silver dust, no returning of the ornament to the vault..... nothing. That money you spent for cosmetic stuff is now null and void with nothing to show. It's simply money down the drain (even more than before with buying packages)

This whole system shows a complete lack of respect for the players time/money by continually forcing multiple levels of RNG on a person in order to get an item in game.

If they insist on keeping RNG for these, then they could add an in game system to allow you a chance to reroll your ornament. 1 Ornament + 3 legendary marks per reroll would be acceptable.

Are you The Stranger by any chance? That might explain it.

I don't even have time to explain why I don't have time to explain...

Or something along those lines.

hope everything's alright

I actually can't fault your argument, but I feel like there's been a communication error if that's the intention, because I don't know anyone else who feels that way.

Perhaps it's the lack of real-world analogues (at least, I can't think of anything), or that you have to go through the official sony and Microsoft storefronts in order to make a purchase, or because that's not how people are used to making in-game purchases, or a combination of all three, but I don't feel like that's the way it's being sold to you.

To me at least, it's sold as a mystery box. A purchaseable random item, because random is fun and exciting. If the intention is that it's just your weekly one, but you're "skipping ahead" as it were, that's been poorly communicated.

Of course, it's functionally identical really. But there are definitely people buying them as mystery boxes regardless, and those are the people who are losing out whether by accident or design.

I know some players who did not get the full "taken" set of armor despite playing almost every week. (My son as one example) Time did not get them all the content, and at this point only money will.

Yeah, I got my final taken armor the week before RoI came out. Don't panic! You can still get the old rewards packages from PoE, so your son still has a shot at that full set.

hope everything's alright

You all know what I'm going to say already. No need to repeat.

hope everything's alright

You all know what I'm going to say already. No need to repeat.

If you truly lived by that philosophy, I wonder if you'd ever post here at all... ;)

BUt yeh, Microtransactions are indeed a neat future for gaming.

hope everything's alright

You all know what I'm going to say already. No need to repeat.

If you truly lived by that philosophy, I wonder if you'd ever post here at all... ;)

BUt yeh, Microtransactions are indeed a neat future for gaming.

I am 100% serious when I say that if I ever have children I literally will not allow them to play any game with microtransactions. If that means every new game on the market so be it. They can play Mario 3 or Halo.

I am 100% serious when I say that if I ever have children I literally will not allow them to play any game with microtransactions. If that means every new game on the market so be it. They can play Mario 3.

Then you're 100% going to be doing a disservice to your children. Why not just refuse to let them have access to the bank accounts required to utilize microtransaction systems? Teach your children that your money is not theirs to toy with without your own explicit permission. Furthermore, you can foster a sense of being content with what's already in front of you for your children's sake. It's honestly as simple as that. Seems like you'd needlessly deprive them of something which interests them no matter how insignificant or innocent it may be.

Also, I think I'd pretty much agree with everything the real Cody would have said. They way these ornaments (and the chroma system before them) have been implemented has really turned me off to them.

At this point I shard Chroma armor almost automatically, and am thinking about doing the same with ornaments. The appeal of ornaments is just so dampened by how many barriers there are to getting them.. at least for me... :(

Just about everything people say (before they become parents) "I'll never let my kids do X" ... they eventually let their kids do X.

Also, I think I'd pretty much agree with everything the real Cody would have said. They way these ornaments (and the chroma system before them) have been implemented has really turned me off to them.

At this point I shard Chroma armor almost automatically, and am thinking about doing the same with ornaments. The appeal of ornaments is just so dampened by how many barriers there are to getting them.. at least for me... :(

i think i've only ever used 1 or 2 chroma before.

Also, I let my kids do games like that but don't allow them to purchase things.

We homeschool our children and have had discussions about skinner boxes, what they are, and how they work. That killed a lot of the "hey I want to buy X!" type games for my kids, even the 5 year old.

I am 100% serious when I say that if I ever have children I literally will not allow them to play any game with microtransactions. If that means every new game on the market so be it. They can play Mario 3 or Halo.

Poppycock. I have found plenty of children, and I've never felt like telling them not to do something that I wouldn't do.

I am 100% serious when I say that if I ever have children I literally will not allow them to play any game with microtransactions. If that means every new game on the market so be it. They can play Mario 3.

Then you're 100% going to be doing a disservice to your children. Why not just refuse to let them have access to the bank accounts required to utilize microtransaction systems? Teach your children that your money is not theirs to toy with without your own explicit permission. Furthermore, you can foster a sense of being content with what's already in front of you for your children's sake. It's honestly as simple as that. Seems like you'd needlessly deprive them of something which interests them no matter how insignificant or innocent it may be.

Read this:

http://www.pixelpoppers.com/2009/11/awesome-by-proxy-addicted-to-fake.html

Now think about your child's development and how he or she will look at obstacles later in life.

what does this have to do with microtransactions, or allowing your children to or to not buy them?

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Should casinos go out of business? Nah. Caveat emptor. Should bingle quit this dumb stuff? I don't care. I'm not buying it. Some here care. They aren't poor, they've played the game for 2000 hours, and following the 1 dollar 1 hour gameplay philosophy, if they spend $500 on horn packages the game is a bargain at twice the price. Their life, I don't care. Their values.

That's what's wrong with your idea, you're not imposing your values or philosophy on other players. Amateur mistake.

I'm unfamiliar with all of the details, so thanks for providing what you have. I'm curious if, based on what you know, you think the following viewpoint is inconstant with the facts.

There is an RNG system in game that allows you to slowly acquire in game items.
There is an additional system in game that allows a player to pay to speed up that RNG processes.

Maybe the pay system is more expensive than people want a pay system to be, but it's still a pay system for an RNG system, yes? So I don't think I'm heart broken that those with more disposable income than me (or different priorities) go through the same RNG system I have to. Is this thinking wrong?

For me, it's not a big deal, nothing to get upset about... it's just kinda gross. It's just about the head-space I'm in when I play video games. I buy a game, I want to escape into it and not have these constant little pokes; "for only $X you could buy Y!". I have no problem walking through a shopping mall and not spending any money... I just don't like it when playing my videogames starts to feel like walking through the mall.

I think saying there are "constant little pokes" is excessive.

I've gotten a few of the free packages and they had the ornaments--that's the only time I ever remember seeing anything in-game about it. I never visit eververse because I don't care about cosmetic stuff.

what does this have to do with microtransactions, or allowing your children to or to not buy them?

Think about how microtransactions alter the design of games. Put two and two together :-)

I actually can't fault your argument, but I feel like there's been a communication error if that's the intention, because I don't know anyone else who feels that way.

Perhaps it's the lack of real-world analogues (at least, I can't think of anything)

This is actually the way the vast majority of the freemium games work. There is some time cap that requires you to wait for something to finish, or you can pay to finish immediately. I don't know if I've ever seen pay-to-bypass-RNG in a game. Heck, even old school shareware imposed artificial startup/load times until you paid for the app.

To me at least, it's sold as a mystery box. A purchaseable random item, because random is fun and exciting. If the intention is that it's just your weekly one, but you're "skipping ahead" as it were, that's been poorly communicated.

Of course, it's functionally identical really. But there are definitely people buying them as mystery boxes regardless, and those are the people who are losing out whether by accident or design.

I'd buy into the miscommunication more of the player weren't receiving weekly and buying the exact same item. I've never looked at Eververse boxes and thought they were anything but RNG.

Actually no one is saying that. No one has said that there shouldn't be micros, or that people shouldn't spend money. I myself have voiced my opinion that there are better, less seedy ways to do it (Spoilers: Casinos are seedy too), but Im pretty sure I haven't imposed my values on anyone. Certainly no one has tried to extend my "philosophy" to other players, whatever you even consider that to mean.

In fact, there seemed to be pretty reasonable response to Earendil's suggestion. But I see you have no trouble putting words in people's mouths. Ironically, to endorse your own philisophies and bash people who think differently to you. Funny.

I think saying there are "constant little pokes" is excessive.

Yes and no. The reminders aren't aggressive or overly in my face, but I do see them multiple times, every time I play. When I go to my inventory screen and see the middle column for ornaments, when I go to the tower and Tess is the very first thing I see, when I inspect an item and see the "ornament" node... It's all stuff that I actively tune out. I force myself to pretend I don't see it, because I just want to enjoy playing the game without worrying about these silly little temptations.

I've gotten a few of the free packages and they had the ornaments--that's the only time I ever remember seeing anything in-game about it. I never visit eververse because I don't care about cosmetic stuff.

So my question to you is: do you not care about the Eververse cosmetics because you'd have to buy it? Just curious :) I love having fun with cosmetic stuff in games. I've even bought a few emotes because they're silly and fun and make me laugh. I just find that as time goes by, these elements are slowly working their way deeper into the game. I just hope it doesn't reach the point where it becomes too invasive for me.

This is actually the way the vast majority of the freemium games work. There is some time cap that requires you to wait for something to finish, or you can pay to finish immediately. I don't know if I've ever seen pay-to-bypass-RNG in a game. Heck, even old school shareware imposed artificial startup/load times until you paid for the app.

Right, but in those games it's a time cap that stops you playing the game. You know exactly what you're getting at all times, and it's made clear that you're buying a time extension rather than anything else. Or they'll let you buy things that would normally take a long time to "build" or "grow" or whatever (or let you "rush" the process), but you always know what you're getting.

I'd buy into the miscommunication more of the player weren't receiving weekly and buying the exact same item. I've never looked at Eververse boxes and thought they were anything but RNG.

Not miscommunication in that we've been misinformed. More poor communication insifar as the weekly limit. I think it's the distinction between waiting a week to get one, but being able to speed that process up vs. an item with a weekly cap, but being able to exceed that cap by paying. A small distinction, and maybe we were intended to view it as the former, like you.

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I got an emote from a Nightfall this week. My first emote, because I haven't purchased any. And the UI practically shit down, forcing me to equip it and preview it, and telling me about how great Eververse is.

Just a one-off, Im sure, since it was my first. But quite jarring.

Save your own extrapolated one, that we were supposed to... guess? Thanks bro, you did words real good.

I actually agree on the microtransactions affecting game design front, but you could have engaged in the conversation rather than "I'll just leave this here"ing.

Save your own extrapolated one, that we were supposed to... guess? Thanks bro, you did words real good.

I actually agree on the microtransactions affecting game design front, but you could have engaged in the conversation rather than "I'll just leave this here"ing.

That's not very Socratic.

No.

Good excuse though, I'll remember that next time I lazylink something.

I don't like the way they have implemented this, it seems shitty. I'd be a lot angrier if I cared about ornaments at all.

Just about everything people say (before they become parents) "I'll never let my kids do X" ... they eventually let their kids do X.

I read that and thought "Cody, you sweet summer child".

Yet another reason why it's easier to just not have kids.

He wrote an opinion and asked what was wrong with it. You didn't imply it was wrong in your post, and he wasn't arguing with you directly. He was just talking and seeing if you thought his position consistent with facts. I wrote why his entirely reasonable position was "wrong" in a manner amusing to me, and didn't say anything about what you said. I have no real comment about your opinion, so I did some shitposting for a giggle. Nothing to do with literally anything else in this thread.

Yet another reason why it's easier to just not have kids.

That decision has eliminated a lot of complications for my partner and I.

Yet another reason why it's easier to just not have kids.

That decision has eliminated a lot of complications for my partner and I.

My kids agree that you would do just fine if you ever decide to.

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I misread your words as being aimed specifically at me, as OP, apparently, hence the somewhat miffed response. Apologies.

As for the pot and kettle yea, that's literally what I was doing. Not everyone has the same opinions but if everyone treats "the other" as both stupid and trying to force you to conform, we're all pots, kettles, pans and god knows what else. Tools probably.

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Yet another reason why it's easier to just not have kids.

That decision has eliminated a lot of complications for my partner and I.

My kids agree that you would do just fine if you ever decide to.

Your kids are ace.

They'd have to let go of their whale population though, which is what RNG microtransactions exist for in the first place.

Well, yes and no. Those people would still be able to spend money - inevitably there'll be some completionists who feel compelled to buy every single item. Those will be the new whales.

They'd have to let go of their whale population though, which is what RNG microtransactions exist for in the first place.

Well, yes and no. Those people would still be able to spend money - inevitably there'll be some completionists who feel compelled to buy every single item. Those will be the new whales.

Yeah, this system exists in TF2. You can buy a specific item for a non insignificant amount of money, or you can buy crates and keys which just give you random items for a couple bucks.

Another option I could see is to do the following modifications:

- Add ornaments to the exotic weapons kiosk. Charge 1 exotic shard + 1 silver dust (or something else) to pull an already unlocked ornament from the kiosk.
- Change the setup to be exactly like the Emotes. You can buy each for 500 Silver, or get a random box for 200 Silver. Best of both worlds for them. Just make it where the boxes are truly random and don't take already unlocked oranaments into account for the loot pool

Well, you MIGHT be paying to bypass time. Or you might be paying money for nothing. Remember that there's no guarantee that you will EVER get the item you're after. You could pay obscene amounts and still not really get anything. That's what people have a problem with.

You all know what I'm going to say already. No need to repeat.

And there was a great disturbance in The Force, as if a hundred browsers all bookmarked the same post at once.

;)

As if I needed another reason.

I only use it if the perks and stats work with the character setup I was already going for. I have wound up with some pretty sweet-looking characters, I should do a photoset of them all.

It currently feels like a stupidity tax

I only cared once. I kept some Days of Iron legs for my Titan, thinking they'd look sweet with the flames for my Sunbreaker setup. Only after dismantling the legs I'd been using previously did I realize that the "Days of Iron Ornament" I needed for it came at book rank 22 which I'll probably never hit. I was somewhat annoyed by that.

But then yesterday I got said ornament from a Radiant Treasure (obtained without monies), which I hadn't realized was possible. So, huzzah! My legs are on fire.

Either that, or an "I-have-so-much-money-that-I-have-no-perspective" tax.

Well, you MIGHT be paying to bypass time. Or you might be paying money for nothing. Remember that there's no guarantee that you will EVER get the item you're after. You could pay obscene amounts and still not really get anything. That's what people have a problem with.

What do you mean "might"? You are! I know full well that I could roll the exact same items each week for the next year. It's chance. And while I can tell you'd like to pay for more than just time, right now that is all you pay for. You get no RNG advantages over those that don't/can't pay.

If you are the type of person who must have all of the emotes but are also somewhat cheap. The best way to get everything is to only buy the blue 200 silver emotes during the current season. Just skip the purple 500 silver emotes until they release last season's packages.

Once those packages are available, you spend 200 silver on each one and then can get the older 500 silver emotes for 200 silver. While they say you can get duplicate emotes, the chances of that happening are slim to none when purchasing them. I believe you only get duplicates when you get the package as a reward for nightfall.

I really wish there was a similar system for these weapon ornaments

There are people who do derive joy from the anticipation of opening an item that they don't know what is exactly inside. I get more excited for unboxing a present han the contents, because the contents are usually disappointing, but I don't stop enjoying presents. Blind Boxes are growing in increasing popularity and the breadth of subscription services for them just keeps getting bigger.

It's not always the object that is the goal. Sometimes it is the ephemeral excitement, like riding a roller coaster, but with less bladder impact.

There are people who do derive joy from the anticipation of opening an item that they don't know what is exactly inside. I get more excited for unboxing a present han the contents, because the contents are usually disappointing, but I don't stop enjoying presents. Blind Boxes are growing in increasing popularity and the breadth of subscription services for them just keeps getting bigger.

It's not always the object that is the goal. Sometimes it is the ephemeral excitement, like riding a roller coaster, but with less bladder impact.

You can still have that feeling in games without RNG. For instance, you get to the chest at the end of a secret dungeon in a JRPG or whatever. What's in it? What will my reward be? It's the same feeling.

When I go to my inventory screen and see the middle column for ornaments,

Completely fair. I hadn't thought about that.

when I go to the tower and Tess is the very first thing I see,

Usually I see the postmaster first because of the green diamond with the exclamation point!

when I inspect an item and see the "ornament" node...

This makes sense but I guess I haven't really inspected many exotics since the change. They are just for exotics, right?

So my question to you is: do you not care about the Eververse cosmetics because you'd have to buy it?

Haha, again a fair point. I am very frugal (read: cheap). That makes me realize that I don't spend a lot of time on cosmetics even when they are free--I generally find the look that works for me and stick with it. I do find satisfaction in finding a shader/emblem/ship combo that I like... So maybe it's just that I'm cheap.

Someone will always view it one and someone else the other, regardless of the level of communication. I think it is more a persoective on small item purchases relative to free periodical items.

I got an emote from a Nightfall this week.

I am not a fan of this. I think some of it is because year one conditioned me to want "better" rewards from the nightfall. It was often the hardest activity I did each week, and it felt good to see that yellow/gold pop up at the end.

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Yes, but if that chest is hard coded you get that experience once. Or not at all if someone told you what was in that chest. First playthroughs of Zelda games have exciting chest openings. All subsequent playthroughs it becomes resource management of generally infinite resources (rupees) or calculated item acquisitions.

The ability to have games roll them randomly allows people who specifically enjoy that excitement at their option to continually have that moment of surprise. I fully understand there are people who don't feel that way, but I consider that a more than valid consideration.

The same argument could be made regarding engrams, but I feel that falls under a slightly different category, based on the way expected results impact joy from anticipation.

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I'm an avid toy collector and have noticed the increasing popularity of blind boxes and bags from various manufacturers. That joyous feeling of opening a gift you describe is definitely different for me when buying one of these packages.

I pretty much hate these things with a passion. If I want something from one of those blind boxes, I'll just go to ebay or a collector group and buy the item straight out instead of playing the dumb lottery game.

These systems are just in place to try to get people to buy more of their product then they actually want/need.

Seeing this in my safe video game world just ticks me off.

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I mean, $200 for just a FEEL... what does she charge for other stuff?

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I'm an avid toy collector and have noticed the increasing popularity of blind boxes and bags from various manufacturers. That joyous feeling of opening a gift you describe is definitely different for me when buying one of these packages.

There are always multiple posts all over the internet when LEGO releases a new mini-fig series about trying to feel around the bag to figure out which figure is in there so you don't end up spending boatloads of cash to get them all. It's stupid that those posts are necessary and that you can't just walk into a store and buy the shit you want.

This is exactly the same thing, only worse. At least with LEGO, you could sell the damn thing on BrickLink if you get one you already have or don't want. With Destiny, you might as well just go out into the street and set your money on fire. It'd probably be more fun.

The ability to have games roll them randomly allows people who specifically enjoy that excitement at their option to continually have that moment of surprise. I fully understand there are people who don't feel that way, but I consider that a more than valid consideration.

This is all valid if you're talking about decoding an engram or something. I'm baffled that anyone would expect me to pay actual money for it, though.

Actually, scratch that. As I was typing that paragraph this whole debate came into perspective for me (I think). From your perspective, you're arguing that people who enjoy what is essentially gambling should be allowed to enjoy it. Here's what might surprise you: I don't disagree. I don't think anyone on my side of the argument actually does. In theory I'm fine with those folks having an outlet, and it's not for me to dictate how they spend their money (even though I do think it's dumb).

I think what I, and others, are really getting at is that some of us would be more willing to spend money on cosmetic items if we KNEW what we were getting. There was another post where someone framed this all as a divide between having disposable income or not, but actually I don't think it's as simple as that, because there's more than just a black-and-white distinction between people who do have disposable income or do not. Some people have MORE disposable income than others. For instance, I could get away with spending 5 bucks on something once. That is a number I know my budget can deal with. And it's not totally unfeasible that I might spend 5 bucks once for something I really liked. But I wouldn't even consider STARTING the process of buying $1 RNG chances, because I don't know how much I'd have to spend before I get something I actually want to keep. It's possible that I might end up spending 30 or 40 bucks before a drop I like came along, and there's just not room in my budget for me to throw that much money at every frivolous thing I come across. But some people CAN throw that money away, and the current system is for them.

(Please note that I'm just making up numbers here; I haven't bought silver and I don't know the pricing. Just substitute the real numbers for whatever I post.)

So the thing is, Bungie is currently getting no dollars out of me for ornaments. It's not that I hate Bungie, or even that I'm withholding money as a protest. It's simply not practical for me to spend anything in that manner. They will continue to get no dollars for the foreseeable future because I'm not gambling for ornaments. They could potentially get 5 (or whatever the price point would be for a set purchase). Now, whether that is BETTER for them is something their number crunchers would have to answer, although I'm not sure they can really know without trying it both ways and comparing. All I can say is what would get more out of me individually, and the current system is not it.

With Destiny, you might as well just go out into the street and set your money on fire. It'd probably be more fun.

Maybe you could impregnate the bills with whatever is in those Black Snakes?

I think it was a ghost, which I actually wanted for the first time ever.

Oh, my "argument" is more directed at some folks who like to suggest it is inherently bad. I am also in agreement on the "Spend more for assurance" side when I am pursuing an end object and not the experiemce as the goal. There is a single blind box toy that I am about at the point I would spend the 70-90 dollars to have it. But that is a different motivation. The boxes I bought leading up to this point were for the experience.

And I have no doubt that people who are content to spend more money on chance are a more reliable revenue source. With the current economy structure for Exotic Ornaments, however, there is an option to buy them from Xur. Which I think is the more important part of this economy to discuss and has been covered in a variety of places. I do think he should have more than 2 available, and the 25 Dust cost is absurd. But I digress. I don't have any issue with a want for the ability to have choices as a consumer.

There are very, very avid gifting and trading circuits for blind box/bag toys though. Stores where they open a few up front and let you trade for ones if you got something you didn't want. Just like my LCS has a section for loot crate items you don'5t want that they'll give you store credit for.

The economy is not isolated there either. And Bricklink is overpriced for everything good anyway. Might as well just order a shipper and trade off he dupes.

I suppose not everyone experiences blind box/bag items the same, either.

Ours won't ever exist! Ha ha! The ultimate.

;)

EDIT: Clarification, Stabbim is not my partner.

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It strikes me right now that so much of Destiny discussion is about the pursuit and acquisition of stuff. Like, I don't see much discussion of the actual stuff or the journey to the stuff. Or at least enough to make the signal to noise ratio worthwhile.

Just stuff. Endless stuff.

Huh.

It strikes me right now that so much of Destiny discussion is about the pursuit and acquisition of stuff. Like, I don't see much discussion of the actual stuff or the journey to the stuff. Or at least enough to make the signal to noise ratio worthwhile.

Just stuff. Endless stuff.

Huh.

The topics on my front page right now are:

- A topic about the new Supremacy Crucible mode
- A topic about Silver Dust / Ornaments and stuff
- A topic about Wrath of the Machine experiences and strategies
- A topic about a vendor selling a good roll on some stuff
- A topic about Destiny's backstory
- A topic about a Portland Raid group
- A topic about Destiny / Xbox Live being down
- A topic about the PSVR
- A topic about streaming the Raid
- A topic about the Raid
- A topic about getting more stuff from the Raid
- A topic about taking screenshots of your character
- A topic about Festival of the Lost 2016
- A topic about Supremacy
- A topic about our real life Golden Age (rocketry, etc)
- A topic reviewing Rise of Iron
- A topic about Iron Banner being live
- A topic about the Raid
- A topic about the projectile deflecting artifact
- A topic about Raid communication and strategy
- A topic about stuff and the difficulty leveling up
- A topic about organizing a PS4 Raid
- A topic about organizing a Customs Night
- A topic about the Chaperone
- A topic about how best to get stuff to be ready for the Raid

Sure, the topics about stuff (loot) are a good bit longer, but they are outnumbered by a good mix of other topics, mostly concerning impression of and strategies relating to the new Raid.

Overall, this seems fine to me. :)

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I understand your point, but honestly I feel like this problem solves itself because I don't understand why anyone would do this. I don't mean, people should be outraged or people should refuse to Paid for play or any of the moral arguments. I just think it's incredibly unappealing to pay for something when you don't know what you get. I understand that some people enjoy gambling as a concept but for me it means Bungie's not getting a dime out of me — not on principle, but because they aren't selling anything specific. Seems like they want to have some option for people like me that would buy things they want but have no intention of buying the unknown. In the meantime…

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Overall, this seems fine to me. :)

You're the biggest Destiny cheerleader I know, so this doesn't surprise me.

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