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part of it is all the shotgunning. I've always done well hanging back with my TLAOC until my super is up, and i can't really do that here. Another problem is that i am equipping my highest light gear so that i can get better drops, except my highest light gear totally fubars my intellect and discipline. I finally broke down and infused into my older, better gear so that i could balance my stats back out, so hopefully this weekend goes better.

anyways, i've lost 12 straight games this IB. some with friends, some solo.

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I also don't like that it seems to encourage behaviour that would otherwise be considered poor play. Rushing endlessly with a shotgun is fine if you have two friends with you doing the same, because when one or two of you is killed, the crest is denied immediately by the third. Ive seen my team do this and the three players had abysmally low K/D but it didn't matter be ause they only had to kill and collect from one person to break even. Meanwhile ranged teamshooting engagements earn very few points as both teams take it in turns dying and denying with no one able to pick up any crests. In fact ranged engagements (like the inevitable mid-map one on Icarus) seem only to serve the purpose of seeing whose stormcaller or hammerbro can get their super first.

Running around without teammates backing you up is a recipe for getting stomped. I find that there are 2 winning play-styles in supremacy:
1- a team of 4-6 moving around the map as a group mopping up the other team, or a variation of the same thing two coordinated groups of 3/3 or 4/2 moving around the map as a group with the smaller group flanking. (short to medium range weapons dominate, fusion rifles can be amazing)
2- locking down an area and drinking the sweet stream of blueberry juice that trickles into your position. You just have to develop a small push & fallback rhythm to collect all the crests they drop, a small push forward to kill & pickup crests then fallback to lure them to the kill box again. (I've seen teams shine that have one or two snipers or a couple mid-long range players with the rest of the team playing short range)
I think the map & team you have will determine which strategy is the best.

I find I do best when I'm a just a few meters behind a teammate & teamshoot whoever they're engaging with. I also do well luring people around a corner only to meet up w/ my partially charge fusion rifle at short-mid range.

Edit: I guess the point of this whole post was to say, "yeah, I see people just rushing endlessly with a shotgun, and that's totally a recipe for failure unless you have friends backing you up." I guess it doesn't bother me that behaviors that can be losing behaviors in other modes can be winning behaviors in this mode. The game mode is different & rewards different strategies.

I have had both the radar and fake cover problems. Very frustrating. Ido like that it is more mobile, but kind of wish that it had a more nuanced ammo economy. Because it would be improved if it were more focused on primary-on-primary engagements. But I think the only thing I honestly don't like is the fact that it uses Clash Spawns, which as a rule fall into the category of utter nonsense. As they never seem to operate consistently even with advantageous map control while it does work in games such as Control.

Spawning with the enemy team is totally stupid. That's what I'm sayin'.

Yeah... I'm usually really good at knowing what's going on around me just by doing a bit of rangefinding with my radar. A little quarter turn and back usually lets me pinpoint where an enemy is and if there are more than one of them... Except it Supremacy its like I see someone at the edge of Radar range and cautiously move up and then 7 enemies appear from all directions except the one indicated on my radar...

I guess because everyone is titan skating so fast that a blip on the edge now means they're one second from shotgun range??

If I see red bars in the game I know I won't be able to pick up their crests. I have gotten killed way too much while running back and forth over crests that it won't let me pick up. It's really frustrating when I get killed while trying, only to see the person that killed me run over and pick up mine and the one I was trying to pick up.

This is beyond frustrating. I haven't run into it too often, but when I do, it's infuriating.

I haven't seen a come from behind win yet. I've seen more games mercy ruled than when IB was rift. Either the team runs together or it doesn't. I try to stick with teammates, but if I see them scatter and the other team didn't, I know right away my team will lose.

I've had the exact opposite experience. Lots of come from behind victories (and losses) and I've only seen one game mercy-ruled. All of the games so far have felt so much closer than any previous Iron Banner.

My only real gripe this time around is that these games don't count toward Supremacy wins in the Rise of Iron record book. I'm not a huge PvP fan, so I was pretty much counting on IB to help me knock out those 10 wins.

-Disciple

You should have played with me two days ago. We lost every game in the final minute.

Then again, they might assume it would go to their postmaster and not pick those up either.

I'm in so many games that my team completely ignores the crests, or the other team just camps them to nail the poor guy trying to play the correctly or both.

Wish there was a more efficient way to level up gear that did not involve the crucible.

and I kind of like it.

As far as maps go, Icarus probably has the worst spawn system of any Bungie map to date, and is far too small to ever get solid map control... And it's all the better for it. I've compared it to Nuketown from Call of Duty, which is more or less a joke map that everyone loves to play (it's even gotten its own "Nuketown 24/7" playlists).

Supremacy on that map is just a huge fun mess, and a frantic tug-of-war more often than not.

If only bungie would treat it that way and get us matchmaking, netcode (dedicated servers, really), and spawns that lived up to the caliber of competitive pvp this game is capable of. The actual cat and mouse of gameplay is incredibly deep.

The maps in Destiny do a horrible job of utilizing vertical space for long range shooters. A hallmark of games like CoD and Counterstrike is having rooms that are "sniper perches." There's only one way into the room, and it has a window through which you can see a large majority of the open space on a given map. The room is also almost always elevated which provides a more clear shot. In a game mode like supremacy, this provides an advantage>

It provides a camping spot for people to camp. This is a poor choice for a mobile game mode in a very mobile game archtype. Please keep to elimination if you want that playstyle.

As far as primaries go, you can do well with scouts. If anything I feel pulses are too good across too much of the various range bands, and that is what crowds out HCs and Scouts. Scouts Rof and TTK are too high for short range work, and HCs can't hit anything at medium to long range, but Pulses work fine across the whole range band and are competitive with the best of class in each. There needs to be a tradeoff like the other weapons.

Likewise fusions are hard capped by the charge mechanic, so people avoid them and go shotgun. Shotguns would be Ok except you have Matadors and PC+1 which can kill you from a fair distance.

Bungie needs to invert the Damage/Range types so the high impact types all have low range, and the low impact all have high range. That way the OHK need to work a bit more instead of Jugg/Shotty across the field.

For a game whose players can jump 20+ feet vertically, they sure don't explore vertical in the crucible much.

Heck imagine a map similar to the new strike that has all the round walkways but you have to jump to the center platforms and over to get around? But make it narrower. And taller! Try sniping straight down on opponents (that would be really tough).

If all of the map design favors frenetic movement and shotguns, why even use snipers? Well, it also favors quickscoping, because a OHK at any range is better than a OHK at close range only. So players like RealKraftyy and TrueVanguard who are terrific quick scope snipers excelled at this game. Now, with the sniper nerfs, the weapon type has been neutered. It's practically useless. So sniping is out.

Another tip here is to play the game that IS and not the game you wish it were. Like snipers but not shotguns? Tough luck dude. The meta favors shotguns, the maps favor shotguns, and this game mode favors shotguns. Play with anything that isn't a shotgun and you're gonna have a rough time. This is poor design and balance on the part of Bungie, but it's the fact we have to grapple with, and if you want to win, you're going to need to get with their program, I'm sorry to say.

I agree with you on all of this. The problem I currently run into is not being high enough light to OHK with my shotgun. I'm currently 370-371 on all classes, and it seems like every game I run into several people 383+ who take nice shotgun blasts and survive them. Sure sometimes I can follow up with a melee, but most of the time I am already dead from their shotgun blast. I have found it better for me to play more supportive and focus on cutting off flanks and getting kills from afar than running around with a pea-shooting shotgun. Its worked well for me I think (somehow still end up towards the top of the leaderboard with crest pick ups?!)

Once I started doing that, I have found the benefit of Sniping in Supremacy! Shutting down Supers!

One Stormcaller, in a gamemode where people run together, can easily get 10 points in one super. Thats 1/15 the required winning score, which is pretty substantial. And that is just one super, which is going to create orbs for more. If I can snipe one or 2 supers (especially storm callers or hammerbros) I might as well be denying several friendly crests. It doesn't show on the scoreboard, but it does make a difference.

Of course, this is only if you can snipe fast and the rest of your team is decent enough for you to play like this. Once my lights a little higher I'll use shotguns more in supremacy.

TLDR: If you are having light level issues, try Sniping!

Just started playing tonight. I absolutely dominate at this thing. It's a fun time. Good job Bungie! Now bring SRL back and make it permanent. And focus on competitive play in Destiny 2.

Seriously, I'm on board with your entire platform.