Please vote on November 8th. That is all.

This is not a political post. I am not going to tell you who to vote for.

Just vote.

And if you're from the UK or Europe or that place with 10,000 species of venomous spiders, just chill and maybe enlighten us as to how much more efficient your political systems are.

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enlighten us as to how much more efficient your political systems are.

Lol.

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But yes, if you have a genuine leaning one way or the other, definitely vote!

If you feel ill-informed and are only voting because you "have" to, maybe don't. Or better yet, get informed :)

But wherever you are and whatever the vote, if you're only voting out of a sense of duty, dont. Unless you're in Australia and have literally no choice I guess. Scary-ass country.

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I can't even begin to count the number of people I know personally who voted out of obligation rather than an understanding of the politics.

If you're not sure, it's okay not to vote. Don't let others pressure you into making a decision you don't feel equipped to make.

And of course, if you do have an opinion and want to vote - Do it!

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If you're not sure, it's okay not to vote. Don't let others pressure you into making a decision you don't feel equipped to make.

And of course, if you do have an opinion and want to vote - Do it!

Oh yeah, sure, if you are uneducated on any of the issues by all means, don't vote. But to be clear, the problem is a failure to spend 8 hours over the last 8 months doing a modicum of reading on the issues and topics at hand so that you are educated enough to vote. It's not like people do not have an opinion, they do. We're not talking about what the new color of M&M is going to be, we're talking about issues that hit every part of an American life and world view. And if you don't care about citizens, vote based on foreign policy.

Okay, I'm going to turn my computer off so that I don't get carried away. Some people get their panties in a twist over micro transactions, my trigger is an uneducated democracy :-)

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It was actually incredibly hard to get informed. To the point where I believe an inquest was held (or is planned?) into the fact that both sides made it as difficult as possible to find accurate information.

If you're able to though, yes, please educate yourself. As you say, 8 hours isnt a big investment for the next 4 years.

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It's still a democracy so even if you don't physically vote, you are still voting, you're just voting for "I don't give a shit what happens". This should be public knowledge such that I can ignore anyone who brings up politics/government in the next four years but didn't vote :)

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That might be the impression some people get. And those people are usually very vocal about it. And they contribute to the problem.

There's a big stigma around the conscious decision not to vote (or spoiling your vote) and it's bs. It absolutely doesn't say "I don't care", "Im too lazy" or "Im not smart enough". I'd rather people not vote at all than make a very important decision they're not actually in a position to be making.

Edit: I should have been making the distinction sooner that I dont just mean not bothering to turn up. Make it known that you didn't/feel unable to vote. Indecision is a reason not to vote, not an excuse not to take part in the process.

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Since it is an important decision, the system needs to be set up so that your vote matters no matter who you vote for. We need something like instant runoff voting, since our first pass the post is what gets us into messes like this.

As a bonus, instant runoff would allow parties to run multiple candidates without worrying about splitting the vote.

The system really truly is stacked against you and needs reform.

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Explanation brought to you by the always amazing CGP Grey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XOZJkozfI

There are also a few followup videos if you find that interesting.

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You have no idea how much your post resonates with my beliefs.

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That might be the impression some people get. And those people are usually very vocal about it. And they contribute to the problem.

There's a big stigma around the conscious decision not to vote (or spoiling your vote) and it's bs. It absolutely doesn't say "I don't care", "Im too lazy" or "Im not smart enough". I'd rather people not vote at all than make a very important decision they're not actually in a position to be making.

Edit: I should have been making the distinction sooner that I dont just mean not bothering to turn up. Make it known that you didn't/feel unable to vote. Indecision is a reason not to vote, not an excuse not to take part in the process.

I'm trying to decide if your edit saves your logic. Maybe I misunderstand. It sounds to me that you'd saying a person that is too lazy to educate themselves and then on election day determines they are too ignorant to cast a vote is undeserving of the term lazy and ignorant. There ARE people that probably can't cast an intelligent vote because their grasp on reality makes it near impossible. Be that grasp long or short term. However, those people are FAR outnumbered by people who are perfectly able to make decisions based on information, and that number is more than the 53% of the population that votes every year. So I say everyone show up to vote. I really don't see how things can get any worse. It's not as if the current voting population is winning IQ contests. And on a more personal note, I'd put you good sir as above the IQ of the average voter. I mean, we're having a discussion for pete's sake. That's an amazing ability for a voter to have :)

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I agree that if you're not willing to put any effort in that's not great (though it's well within their rights!). But I'd still prefer that a wilfully ignorant (or lazy if you want) person not vote at all if they can't be bothered to educate themself. [Edit: Bit you say you'd have those people vote regardless?]

But I also think sometimes you just can't make a decision you're happy with, or want to make it known that you don't find the options acceptable. And to me it seems like you're saying those people are just as lazy and worthy of equal disdain to those who haven't even bothered. Which rubs me very much the wrong way, but maybe Im misunderstanding your intentions?

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I agree that if you're not willing to put any effort in that's not great (though it's well within their rights!). But I'd still prefer that a wilfully ignorant (or lazy if you want) person not vote at all if they can't be bothered to educate themself. [Edit: Bit you say you'd have those people vote regardless?]

No, I suppose if you are willfully ignorant about the government you live in, and decide not to vote, I'm not going to blame you for not voting. I'm still going to call that person ignorant though, and now we've looped back to some people not voting being considered ignorant :)

But I also think sometimes you just can't make a decision you're happy with,

I hate to put on my adult pants for this comment (because honestly the pants don't fit me well) but that's life. Sticking ones fingers in their ear because their decisions don't result in sunshine and rainbows is just what we do on a daily basis.

or want to make it known that you don't find the options acceptable.

Now THIS I can get behind. In this case you should vote for someone, ANYONE else. Just make sure that who you vote for represents you and what you want on some level. Hell, vote for yourself, seriously.
But at least politicians will get that you are a voter than can be won over. People that don't vote aren't even part of our representative government because government has near zero responsibility to represent you if you don't vote.

And to me it seems like you're saying those people are just as lazy and worthy of equal disdain to those who haven't even bothered. Which rubs me very much the wrong way, but maybe Im misunderstanding your intentions?

I'm sure there are legit reasons for not voting. I listed a few myself. The angle I'm coming from is that 47% of this country doesn't vote in the presidential election, even fewer vote in local elections (on average) and I don't see that many people having a valid excuse. Those with a valid excuse are in the minority.

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I'm still going to call that person ignorant though, and now we've looped back to some people not voting being considered ignorant :)

Can't argue with that.

I hate to put on my adult pants for this comment (because honestly the pants don't fit me well) but that's life. Sticking ones fingers in their ear because their decisions don't result in sunshine and rainbows is just what we do on a daily basis.

I think generally you're right. Im mostly thinking of the times where your indecision stems from a lack of suitable options, in which case we seem to agree that the answer is to make your discontent known.

I'm sure there are legit reasons for not voting. I listed a few myself. The angle I'm coming from is that 47% of this country doesn't vote in the presidential election, even fewer vote in local elections (on average) and I don't see that many people having a valid excuse. Those with a valid excuse are in the minority.

Ideally I would have those with good reasons do something to make those reasons known while letting those without "good" reasons either continue to not vote or have a way to say "Im not voting but I dont have a good reason" (though I dont know that I trust people to own up to that). My fear with the stigma is encouraging the "wrong" (for want of a much, much better word) to vote despite being completely ignorant.

But at the end of the day there are two reasons not to vote. Either you have a good reason, or you have a bad reason and you know that that in itself is a good reason not to vote. Either way I'd rather that those people have the option not to vote than be forced into it.

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Or does it?

I used to be that guy, you know the one, the guy that always said "The system is so broken, why bother? It doesn't matter anyway."

To a large extent, I still think that's true. Congressional districts are so gerrymandered they're nearly useless for determining what the populace actually wants. Money has entirely too much influence on the entire process. The two party system is pretty clearly fucking broken. Etc, etc, etc.

I've come around, though, and feel like most people use apathy as an excuse for laziness. I still don't particularly think voting for President is all that important (in the grand scheme of things), but voting for your representative in Congress and keeping up with local ballot issues is super important in terms of actually affecting your day to day life.

Bottom line is that researching the issues isn't as easy as Earendil would have you believe, but it's also not impossible, and you don't have to know absolutely everything to be well-informed. You just have to decide which issues are actually important to you, but without being willfully ignorant of other issues your chosen candidate might champion.

As with just about anything, there is no easy answer. I think it's a ridiculous that so many people refuse to participate. I feel frustrated that anyone would site ignorance as a reason for doing so--that's something that is entirely within your control and could be fixed with a solid afternoon, or an evening or two a month in the lead up to election. On the other hand, if someone is going to absolutely refuse to put in that work, I'm not sure they'd be helping anything by actually going to the polls.

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But at the end of the day there are two reasons not to vote. Either you have a good reason, or you have a bad reason and you know that that in itself is a good reason not to vote. Either way I'd rather that those people have the option not to vote than be forced into it.

The right to say no, to anything, can't be undervalued.

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For the record, I already voted, but I love this clip:

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I've never seen that.

Political analysis I can get behind. No, really.

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I wish that write-ins mattered more. Unfortunately, something like ten states will count write-ins that weren't pre-approved. If you're not in one of those states, and you write-in MacPhisto, it won't even get tallied. You may as well have not voted at that point. Pretty much destroys the concept of a protest vote, but I guess it does save a bunch of paperwork and time. Oh well!

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"Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."

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For the record, I already voted, but I love this clip:

Haha yeah, dude is hilarious.

I did find the comment about who has "no right to complain" interesting. I've never thought about it that way, sounds silly to think that one can diffuse their responsibility or absolve it altogether when they have an opportunity by just not doing anything.

I think everyone should vote, and I think if you don't have the time or ability to do even the most basic research into the policy positions of both candidates, then you must be incapable of even the most basic decision.

If you want to protest by not voting at all, what a waste of what little initiative you have, it's like having something to say, but going out into the desert and whispering it to a sand dune. At the very least protest votes for 3rd party candidates or organized write-ins (where available) demonstrate the direction you want things to go in. (As an aside I'd much prefer preferential voting, which would have avoided the disaster of the republican primary and tends to support non 2 party system interests...).

And if you think voting has no impact, history proves otherwise. Every great or horrible thing a politician has done, has been because they were elected... with votes.

Fascists don't seize power in a vacuum, they have done it once they have been voted in.

Anyways... go look into each candidate, check out their policies, see who is endorsing them (seriously, the KKK is endorsing one of the 2 candidates for the president of the United States...) and cast your vote in where you want this country to go.

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I think everyone should vote, and I think if you don't have the time or ability to do even the most basic research into the policy positions of both candidates, then you must be incapable of even the most basic decision.

This isn't true at all.

Prop 61.

Can you tell me if that's a good idea? Can you predict what will actually happen to drug prices if passed? Nobody can. So how can I be informed?

Do you think you have the required knowledge to assess every candidate's policy positions? Or do you just look at what the experts tell you? Or worse than that, look at pundits who share your leanings?

Get real. Being fully informed is impossible, which is why we have a republic in the first place.

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I think everyone should vote, and I think if you don't have the time or ability to do even the most basic research into the policy positions of both candidates, then you must be incapable of even the most basic decision.

This isn't true at all.

Prop 61.

Can you tell me if that's a good idea? Can you predict what will actually happen to drug prices if passed? Nobody can. So how can I be informed?

Do you think you have the required knowledge to assess every candidate's policy positions? Or do you just look at what the experts tell you? Or worse than that, look at pundits who share your leanings?

Get real. Being fully informed is impossible, which is why we have a republic in the first place.

Yeah, as someone who works in life sciences , I don't even think I'm informed enough about a ballot measure like that. I wasn't specific enough in my commentary. I think Ballot Measures are hard to be informed about and people SHOULD research them to the best of their ability and see if they can come to some kind of conclusion on them before voting. I would advise that they read the arguments for and against and yes, check out what the pundits that THEY support have to say about it. You should always be critical of the pundits you follow, but they can also provide you some kind of insight into how you feel about something.

Before I voted I found a couple of voting guides based on my postcode, checked each option and noted which way I would vote regardless of party lines, and which options I wouldn't vote for.

I can easily imagine a ballot measure like the one that you linked, that I wouldn't feel comfortable voting either way because honestly, it sounds like a poorly put together measure. There WAS a ballot measure locally here for Raleigh that I knew within an instant how I felt about it, so I voted for it. As for presidential elections, and to a lesser extent other down ballot things like senators, it really should only take about 20 minutes to figure out which option you'd prefer.

Oh and I fucking HATE the 2 party system.

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Voting for AIDS because it isn't Cancer is moronic at best.

Also, seriously, your votes are statistically irrelevant based on how numbers work. Especially since 80% (closer to 90) of states are just going to vote for whatever figurehead is put on the ballot by the party that is going to win.

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Also, if I was going to get either of those no matter what, and I COULD vote for which one. It'd be extremely stupid NOT to vote.

Sounds like a lesser known trolley problem.

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But good point. One is a narcissistic psychopath and the other is a narcissistic psychopath.

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And mine definitely does, I live in North Carolina.

Do you reduce all tough problems down to really simple comparisons to make it easier to not have any responsibility?

You do you... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Oh yeah. They put a gold star next to your name so they read it first. Ignore the hundreds of thousands(millions) of votes that have already rendered your individual vote meaningless. You are a special snowflake.

It is all up to you to save us, bro.

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Sure, as an individual, your single lack of vote probably won't have a meaningful effect. Things are rarely decided by a single vote.

But if a significant number of people think that way, and particularly if the tendency to think like that is affected by demographic factors, then it can have all the effect in the world. That should be especially clear in this election, where there's been almost no discussion of policy and everyone is just trying to get their constituents to be the ones that feel like voting.

Voting for AIDS because it isn't Cancer is moronic at best.

How so? How are lesser-evil stances any dumber than most-good stances?

If you dislike both candidates, it's not like not voting will cause your dream candidate to take office.

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Also, seriously, your votes are statistically irrelevant based on how numbers work.

You're conflating statistical significancy with relevancy. Those are two different things.

It sounds like you're trying to say, your vote doesn't matter, because lots of other people are voting.

If that is what you mean, again, it sounds like you're conflating two concepts: the idea that something that "matters" with the idea that something is counted.

Based on other stuff you've written on this forum, I'm guessing you would say stuff doesn't matter, but that's a personal value judgement, not a statistical or numerical conclusion.

Will one vote change an election? Probably not. But that's why the system is set up the way that it is. It is impossible for both everyone's vote to count and for everyone's single vote to determine an election.

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Every year I encounter someone who chooses not to vote. Someone who matters to me. And it breaks my heart a little. Because politicians legitimately care about their constituents. They want to keep their jobs and they want to make the people who vote in their districts happy. Even if you go to the polls and submit a completely blank ballot, that will get you in the public voting record. When you have a problem and email your congressman, they will respond. Your city counselor will write a letter on your behalf.

On a more macro level, voting is important for ensuring that the population is recognized and its general issues are addressed. Think about this: The people who complain the most about our government are, by and large, members of groups who historically do not vote in large numbers. The Black Lives Matter movement is great at drawing attention to serious racial issues in our country, but has not done well putting forth candidates, legislation, or "get out the vote" initiatives. Is it any wonder that the politicians largely seek to placate and pacify rather than address the issues they bring forth? It doesn't surprise me at all, because politicians only care about people who vote.

Demographic polling shows that white men without college degrees largely support the republican party. Is it any wonder that democrats want to make college free for all? Polling shows that minorities largely support the democratic party. Is it any wonder that republicans seek to suppress the vote in minority neighborhoods?

It all comes down to self interest. The politicians want more voters who support them and fewer voters who don't. If you vote, regardless of who you vote for, you're letting our leaders know that you are someone they should pay attention to. If you don't vote, you're letting the idiots who cut you off in traffic today decide the fate of your nation.

I get it, you don't want to have to choose between cutting off your own hand or sticking your dick in a blender. They're awful choices. But one of those is going to happen to you regardless, so you may as well let them know you're more on one side or another. Keep doing that, and maybe, hopefully, eventually we'll get the option to just eat a bunch of ice cream instead.

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I get it, you don't want to have to choose between cutting off your own hand or sticking your dick in a blender.

Dude, you cut off your hand. You can always just use the other one…

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I get it, you don't want to have to choose between cutting off your own hand or sticking your dick in a blender.

Dude, you cut off your hand. You can always just use the other one…

Except for playing Destiny becomes a lot harder. Most of life does, actually.

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Of course, if you chose the other route... one thing never gets harder again.

And is that life worth living?

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Of course, if you chose the other route... one thing never gets harder again.

And is that life worth living?

You might find a way to cope.

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As someone who generally wants to toss a Molotov Cocktail on the whole system, this post really spoke to me. Makes me feel good about participating this time.

So, thanks.

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If you plan not to vote that is. A blank ballot or otherwise spoiled vote is much better than just not showing up.

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I disagree with several of your characterizations of politicians. Other than that I'll just say thank goodness we still live in a republic.

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The number of people I've personally talked to that are going to vote, but don't have a clue what the local issues on the ballot are is completely mind-boggling to me. Voting for President is probably the least relevant and important thing you can vote for.

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I vote for Osiris. He will really shake up the establishment.

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I vote for Osiris. He will really shake up the establishment.

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But this definitely is a political post in that you are encouraging everyone to participate in the facade that is voting for a leader who doesn't actually have any power.

Local issues are a good thing to vote on, though, if you care enough to look in to them.

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But this definitely is a political post in that you are encouraging everyone to participate in the facade that is voting for a leader who doesn't actually have any power.

Nah, whoever is elected will be nominating potentially 4 Supreme Court justices. I'd say that's important.

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Part of the revelations of the Clinton emails is just how little the various department heads follow the laws, and how they scheme around them. The supreme court really just is useful for favorable coverage and the illusion that the sheep have an equal say in these decisions, when the real truth is they don't.

The West has an issue in that we have a new aristocracy, that sits in the halls of power and smokey back rooms and makes all the decisions to benefit themselves while a compliant press covers for them and gets fame and fortune as a byproduct.

Of course this has always been the case under socialism. Socalists are so good at the looting that the countries rarely survive more then a hanful of terms with them in charge before they become failed states, like Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Iran, and Iraq. Russia and China would fail, but they have gotten such huge investment from the west that they have managed to lurch on, and even then they need to continuously annex land and resources from their neighbors.

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Nah, whoever is elected will be nominating potentially 4 Supreme Court justices. I'd say that's important.

It's also going to have a gigantic effect on congress's behavior, and on what sorts of things are able to make it through congress and the president. Even if party politics was truly never anything more than a game to appeal to constituents, the votes still matter.

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But this definitely is a political post in that you are encouraging everyone to participate in the facade that is voting for a leader who doesn't actually have any power.

Local issues are a good thing to vote on, though, if you care enough to look in to them.

You do realize that both things you are alluding to are called "voting" and both happen on nov 8th? :)

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And he used the verb to vote. IMO he explicitly said they were voting. I would bet he realizes it.

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Now I can listen to music guilt free for the next five days!

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You mean #makehalocanonagain

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Please vote on November 8th. That is all. (Off-Topic)