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Kotaku: Activision says Destiny still coming in 2017. (Destiny)

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, February 09, 2017, 20:12 (2935 days ago)

Jason Schreier (aka one of the few people in the industry that does actual journalism) reports that Destiny 2 is still on track for 2017. This is according to a slideshow from an Activision earnings call.

Also of interest:

If Bungie misses this year for Destiny 2, Activision is awarded a hefty chunk of the independent studio’s stock, according to two sources familiar with goings-on at Bungie.

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Kotaku: Activision says Destiny still coming in 2017.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, February 09, 2017, 20:41 (2935 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Jason Schreier (aka one of the few people in the industry that does actual journalism) reports that Destiny 2 is still on track for 2017. This is according to a slideshow from an Activision earnings call.

Also of interest:

If Bungie misses this year for Destiny 2, Activision is awarded a hefty chunk of the independent studio’s stock, according to two sources familiar with goings-on at Bungie.

This has me worried. Given the news of the reboot last year, and this apparent pressure not to slip to 2018, I'm getting a vibe that it's going to be a rushed mess. Jason has also said publicly that a slip to 2018 was a strong possibility according to the folks he talked to, so clearly time is in short supply at Bungie if that was even being thought about.

Let's hope I don't have to make des2ny.isnotcanon.net

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Possibly important detail.

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, February 09, 2017, 20:50 (2935 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Jason Schreier (aka one of the few people in the industry that does actual journalism) reports that Destiny 2 is still on track for 2017. This is according to a slideshow from an Activision earnings call.

Also of interest:

If Bungie misses this year for Destiny 2, Activision is awarded a hefty chunk of the independent studio’s stock, according to two sources familiar with goings-on at Bungie.

This article references the supposed leaks that appeared on Reddit recently, and goes on to state that these rumors are false. Shreier is basing this on a tweet posted by Urk... and that seems to be about it.

However, I'm seeing lots of comments from people saying "yeah well Bungie denied the RoI leaks as well, and they turned out to be true"... but I'm having trouble finding the specific RoI leaks as well as Bungie's supposed denial of them.

All this means is that a denial from Urk might not mean anything at all... it might just be the required "dismissal" from an official source. I have no idea. As always, take all this stuff with a huge grain of salt.

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Possibly important detail.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, February 12, 2017, 13:51 (2932 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

Jason Schreier (aka one of the few people in the industry that does actual journalism) reports that Destiny 2 is still on track for 2017. This is according to a slideshow from an Activision earnings call.

Also of interest:

If Bungie misses this year for Destiny 2, Activision is awarded a hefty chunk of the independent studio’s stock, according to two sources familiar with goings-on at Bungie.


This article references the supposed leaks that appeared on Reddit recently, and goes on to state that these rumors are false. Shreier is basing this on a tweet posted by Urk... and that seems to be about it.

However, I'm seeing lots of comments from people saying "yeah well Bungie denied the RoI leaks as well, and they turned out to be true"... but I'm having trouble finding the specific RoI leaks as well as Bungie's supposed denial of them.

All this means is that a denial from Urk might not mean anything at all... it might just be the required "dismissal" from an official source. I have no idea. As always, take all this stuff with a huge grain of salt.

The stock issue was just denied by Bungie. If what was printed was not true, this is good for the game, but bad for getting in in 2017.

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Tangent: If destiny were on PC, would you switch?

by Revenant1988 ⌂ @, How do I forum?, Thursday, February 09, 2017, 21:20 (2935 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Curious about what this community would do.

Would you skip playing it on Xbox or PlayStation to play on PC?

Would you play both or all 3?

Let's say for this scenario, there are no cross saves and no cross play. Even from xbox to pc.

Would you change ecosystems?

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No.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Thursday, February 09, 2017, 21:25 (2935 days ago) @ Revenant1988

- No text -

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Tangent: If destiny were on PC, would you switch?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, February 09, 2017, 21:31 (2935 days ago) @ Revenant1988

Would you change ecosystems?

If I could find a good group to play with, or else bring some people from here, then yes absolutely.

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Tangent: If destiny were on PC, would you switch?

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, February 09, 2017, 21:32 (2935 days ago) @ Revenant1988

That would depend on two things:

1. Right now I don't have a gaming PC. I'd like to in the future, but I don't see it happening any time soon. I'd just rather spend that money on my Jeep or Mustang. If I had a gaming PC, I'd definitely consider it.

2. What everyone else here decided to do. When it comes to Destiny, being able to play with this community would be top priority. It already sucks that we all have to decide between Xbox/PS4 as far as who we're going to play with (I will absolutely not play the game on multiple platforms without cross save), so adding another option would suck from that perspective.

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Going to play wherever my friends are.

by Funkmon @, Thursday, February 09, 2017, 21:55 (2935 days ago) @ Revenant1988

- No text -

Solid NO!

by DEEP_NNN, Thursday, February 09, 2017, 22:12 (2935 days ago) @ Revenant1988

Been there. Seen it. Don't want to see reruns.

I understand the whole "let's build the best gaming rig" thing.

PC gaming just gives game developers another opportunity to point the finger at you and your rig when their games don't work. Don't give them a pass.

The more or less unchangeable console environment forces developers to fix their shit for everyone all at once.

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Solid NO!

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, February 09, 2017, 22:30 (2935 days ago) @ DEEP_NNN

The more or less unchangeable console environment forces developers to fix their shit for everyone all at once.

Unchangeable? Except for the PS4 Pro and the Scorpio…

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Solid NO!

by Revenant1988 ⌂ @, How do I forum?, Thursday, February 09, 2017, 22:43 (2935 days ago) @ Cody Miller

The more or less unchangeable console environment forces developers to fix their shit for everyone all at once.


Unchangeable? Except for the PS4 Pro and the Scorpio…

This is part of the reason I posed the question.

My biggest regret about our Xbox 1 (aside from the Master Chief Collection) is the size of the console. It doesn't fit in my entertainment setup, so awkwardly implemented right now and it discourages me from using it. This is a shame, because there are games I want to play on it, games I have on hand. But I don't. Halo 5 is a blast.

Seems petty, but it is what it is. I would LOVE to have the slim model, but I'm not paying more money to buy the console that they SHOULD have launched with.

Now, there is the PS4 Pro and Scorpio on the horizon.

It is apparent, that current consoles are even more PC like these days. For good and bad.

And I agree with DEEP in his line of thinking on his last post- or I did. The main reason I never bothered with PC gaming is because I valued my TIME more than money. I just pop the game into the console, and play. Now updates are more prevalent. Constant connectivity is a must. Day 1 patches are the norm. Blah blah.


My laptop is speced for gaming, but I purchased it for modeling and design hobby work that I do. I'm SUPER excited for Halo Wars 2. I bought the edition that allows me to play on PC and xbox. Installed on both and ready to go! After playing the demo on my laptop, I must admit it is quite attractive. I started thinking about Destiny on PC after that. But that has the benefit of being in Microsoft's environment where my progress is synced between both devices seamlessly. Bungie doesn't (yet?) offer that. I wonder if they could.... if they would, rather.

I know this cycle, that I will NOT be an early adopter for Destiny 2. Or a console again for that matter. Still, I cannot deny the appeal of being able to play on both seamlessly. That would make Destiny very attractive again to me.

I guess we'll see!

Solid NO!

by DEEP_NNN, Friday, February 10, 2017, 00:36 (2935 days ago) @ Cody Miller

PS4 pro, XB1 S and Scorpion are still basically stable platforms. All games will have to work on them and the consumer is not responsible for anything except consumption. Developers, both hardware and software are responsible for everything. You can't buy that kind of insurance for PC gaming.

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Depends on how easy it would be to obtain.

by ProbablyLast, Thursday, February 09, 2017, 23:10 (2935 days ago) @ Revenant1988

- No text -

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Absolutely not unless...

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, February 10, 2017, 13:14 (2934 days ago) @ Revenant1988

it runs decently on a Mac

AND

it has cross-platform saves.

I've flirted with the idea of building a gaming rig, but I still harbor the wish to have on my tombstone "Happily never owned a PC."

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Absolutely not unless...

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, February 10, 2017, 13:45 (2934 days ago) @ Kermit

it runs decently on a Mac

AND

it has cross-platform saves.

I've flirted with the idea of building a gaming rig, but I still harbor the wish to have on my tombstone "Happily never owned a PC."

You would probably have to boot into windows with boot camp. But when you do that, most games run pretty well on macs.

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Absolutely not unless...

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, February 10, 2017, 15:36 (2934 days ago) @ Cody Miller

it runs decently on a Mac

AND

it has cross-platform saves.

I've flirted with the idea of building a gaming rig, but I still harbor the wish to have on my tombstone "Happily never owned a PC."


You would probably have to boot into windows with boot camp.

I'd be shocked otherwise.

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Absolutely not unless...

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Saturday, February 11, 2017, 02:15 (2934 days ago) @ Kermit

Steam really is growing its Mac OS library. Maybe one can dream? :)

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Absolutely not unless...

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, February 11, 2017, 14:51 (2933 days ago) @ ZackDark

Steam really is growing its Mac OS library. Maybe one can dream? :)

Games almost always perform significantly better under window than Mac OS. I used to play SC2 in windows even though it has a Mac version because the difference is so great. And, if you have a New Mac Pro, you can do crossfire in windows to use both graphics cards, whereas games can only use one under os x unless specifically programmed for it.

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Wow. You guys did get the short end, huh?

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Saturday, February 11, 2017, 16:02 (2933 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Hope it gets better soon. Running Wine to play a game shouldn't be a requirement.

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No wine, just dual boot.

by dogcow @, Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Monday, February 13, 2017, 17:31 (2931 days ago) @ ZackDark

- No text -

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Don't do it man. Keep the streak going.

by Funkmon @, Friday, February 10, 2017, 20:27 (2934 days ago) @ Kermit

- No text -

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I have a gaming PC powerful enough for VR, straight up no

by kidtsunami @, Atlanta, GA, Friday, February 10, 2017, 13:26 (2934 days ago) @ Revenant1988

I barely do anything with it aside from VR development.

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No, unless cross-saves

by Schedonnardus, Texas, Friday, February 10, 2017, 14:54 (2934 days ago) @ Revenant1988

would love for it to be an xbox anywhere title, but that probably won't happen.

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Tangent: If destiny were on PC, would you switch?

by squidnh3, Friday, February 10, 2017, 22:15 (2934 days ago) @ Revenant1988

I'll be sticking with Xbox. I much prefer a psuedo-enforced controller interface.

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Another tangent: keyboard and mouse on console.

by cheapLEY @, Friday, February 10, 2017, 23:28 (2934 days ago) @ squidnh3
edited by cheapLEY, Saturday, February 11, 2017, 00:06

Blizzard stirred up some shit with its comments on keyboard and mice on consoles.

What are your thoughts on this? Does fairness and an equal playing field trump personal preference or even accessibility?

I saw lots of comments from people saying things like, "If you want to use a mouse, play on PC," as if spending a thousand dollars on a gaming rig is a totally necessary and justifiable barrier to using your preferred input method.

I just don't get the outrage here, and it feels like people being whiny babies for no reason. It's not unfair when anyone could just as easily use a mouse if they wanted to. It'd be like saying it's totally unfair for someone to play Elite Dangerous with a HOTAS and in VR when I use an Xbox controller.

And FWIW, I hate keyboard and mouse control for everything beyond RTS and strategy games, so it's not like I'm just blindly defending my preferred input method.

Anyway, I guess really I just wanted to stir the pot and see how you all felt.

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Another tangent: keyboard and mouse on console.

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Saturday, February 11, 2017, 01:20 (2934 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by uberfoop, Saturday, February 11, 2017, 01:24

Does fairness and an equal playing field trump personal preference or even accessibility?

Using M&K is such a huge advantage that being permitted to use it practically forces you to do so. The "personal preference" thing can be twisted right around; if your personal preference is gamepad, having a gamepad-only infrastructure is critical. If you stage an athletic racing event on the road where participants are allowed to go on foot or use a bicycle, it would be a bicycle race.

Designing a single gunplay model to be challenging and feel good for both M&K and gamepad is also a serious issue.

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Another tangent: keyboard and mouse on console.

by Kahzgul, Saturday, February 11, 2017, 06:56 (2934 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I think that in a twitch shooter keyboard and mouse will always be superior to a controller, but I also know that Destiny is not really a twitch shooter. The real difference is look speed. A mouse user can just move the mouse more quickly to make a fast turn, whereas a controller player has to adjust the fidelity of their entire looking stick if they want the extreme turns to be faster. This one difference is hugely significant. The mouse is a finer control and offers superior aiming. Also, mice and keyboards don't vibrate (though I know MLG players turn off controller vibration anyway). And of course keyboard players always move at full speed (blessing or curse, depending).

Anyway, yeah, I think it's unfair to put mice and keyboards in the same playspace as controllers when it comes to FPS games as I feel that mice and keyboards are superior input methods in a head to head competition (though I prefer a controller, I recognize it is not as fine an instrument).

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K&M on console is essentially cheating...

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Saturday, February 11, 2017, 14:35 (2933 days ago) @ cheapLEY

It's not as simple as "anyone can just plug in a keyboard and mouse". In order for them to work, you need to buy a $125 adapter, or a specially-designed keyboard and mouse which also cost over $120. So it's pretty difficult to say that it's something anyone can do.

On top of that, the advantage that you get in twitch shooters is real and undeniable (the highest-tier players in Overwatch's competitive mode are almost exclusively keyboard and mouse players). I have a friend who bought the adapter, and he's gone from average to having gold skins on a number of guns.

So it's essentially cheating to go out of your way to pay money for something that will give you an advantage over other players who play the game as intended... That said, the official Playstation site advertises a mouse and keyboard that lets you do this, so who knows...

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K&M on console is essentially cheating...

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, February 11, 2017, 14:48 (2933 days ago) @ Korny

By your logic, You could argue that someone who pays for a PC that can get smoother frame rates, or someone who buys a bigger higher resolution monitor is likewise cheating since not everybody has the money. What about someone who pays a pro to tutor them?

Your definition of cheating is too broad. Money spent should not be a metric.

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*ahem* Pay to Win *cough*

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Saturday, February 11, 2017, 16:01 (2933 days ago) @ Cody Miller

- No text -

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K&M on console is essentially cheating...

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Saturday, February 11, 2017, 18:22 (2933 days ago) @ Cody Miller

By your logic, You could argue that someone who pays for a PC that can get smoother frame rates, or someone who buys a bigger higher resolution monitor is likewise cheating since not everybody has the money. What about someone who pays a pro to tutor them?

That's not anything remotely resembling the logic I put forward, and is really a terrible example (players who ran R6:Siege in lower settings actually had an advantage over the players with more expensive builds that allowed higher settings, since lower settings didn't have shadows and glare, making it easier to bring down targets.

In console gaming, games are designed with a specific form of input in mind. Regardless of whether you have a cheap Mad Katz or the Elite Controller, it's the same input. If you pay to have an advantage over the people who play with "fully-inflated footballs", you're cheating.


Your definition of cheating is too broad. Money spent should not be a metric.

That's why money spent was not the main issue, although as has been pointed out, it is a form of pay-to-win. The issue is with buying a different input that goes against the intended design in order to get an advantage over every single player who does not pay for the input.

You aren't doing anything different from the people who buy software that helps them aim, or that causes other players to lag. You are deliberately impacting the playing field in order to give yourself an advantage by using means not available in an official capacity (even the keyboard advertised by Sony is a third-party product).

That said, because there aren't any specific rules, it's not cheating to the point where it violates the TOS, although developers (such as Blizzard) might take action and punish players who use M&S on console. Their game, their rules, and they've said that it's cheating (and they've got better data than you do).

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K&M on console is essentially cheating...

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, February 11, 2017, 19:08 (2933 days ago) @ Korny

Dude that is 100% wrong. People buy arcade sticks for their consoles for fighting games and shooters all the time. The controller is not a given ever, even on consoles.

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K&M on console is essentially cheating...

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Saturday, February 11, 2017, 19:22 (2933 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Dude that is 100% wrong. People buy arcade sticks for their consoles for fighting games and shooters all the time. The controller is not a given ever, even on consoles.

Also a crappy example. A fight pad is just a different layout for a controller for comfort and ease of combos, input-wise, it is still a button/joystick design that doesn't give an overwhelming advantage over all other players. Heck, I've beaten folks who use fight pads with a controller, and I suck if I use fightpads. Even then, fighting game competitions have rules over which fight pads are allowed, even though they're all essentially the same, and some folks still compete with a controller, because of preference. If you use a fightpad that activates combos on its own, or blocks automatically, that's cheating, because you've changed the input.

Mouse and keyboard is a direct advantage. It is not "preference", or remotely like a fightpad. It is changing the input entirely. It makes it so that you can easily snap to enemies. It negates aim assist, sensitivity, acceleration, reaction time, and skill. And you paid to have an advantage over all other players who have to contend with that.

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K&M on console is essentially cheating...

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, February 12, 2017, 01:19 (2933 days ago) @ Korny

So the people who buy wheels and pedals for racing games likewise cheat since that completely changes the nature of the input. I don't think so.

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K&M on console is essentially cheating...

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Sunday, February 12, 2017, 02:47 (2933 days ago) @ Cody Miller

They do have an edge, yes, but the edge a mouse gives over thumbsticks is insane. It's an entirely different game. You could try to balance it by removing aim magnetism when people use a mouse, but it's still be a pretty big difference in ease of accuracy.

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K&M on console is essentially cheating...

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, February 12, 2017, 05:32 (2933 days ago) @ ZackDark

They do have an edge, yes, but the edge a mouse gives over thumbsticks is insane. It's an entirely different game. You could try to balance it by removing aim magnetism when people use a mouse, but it's still be a pretty big difference in ease of accuracy.

I do agree that the edge is potentially great. But would this not be a problem with sbmm or ranked playlists? You wouldn't have an edge because you'd be up against people playing around your level.

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If the player pool is big enough, sure

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Sunday, February 12, 2017, 15:29 (2932 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Lest we get lag-fests while segregating players by apparent skill.

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K&M on console is essentially cheating...

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Sunday, February 12, 2017, 16:05 (2932 days ago) @ Cody Miller

They do have an edge, yes, but the edge a mouse gives over thumbsticks is insane. It's an entirely different game. You could try to balance it by removing aim magnetism when people use a mouse, but it's still be a pretty big difference in ease of accuracy.


I do agree that the edge is potentially great. But would this not be a problem with sbmm or ranked playlists? You wouldn't have an edge because you'd be up against people playing around your level.

Yeah, that's why I said that the highest-tiers of competitive play are all mouse and keyboard, because they blast through the ranks fairly quickly. Unfortunately, the SBMM-seque design resets every season, dumping those players back into the regular pool. On top of that, in games like CoD and Overwatch, there is no SBMM in all other playlists, so the average player will find himself coming up against mouse and keyboard players on a regular basis.

And the edge is indeed great. In Destiny, it makes airborne aiming extremely easy, which this Last Word player takes advantage of when he's not snap-sniping.


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But a $150 Elite controller is totally fine?

by cheapLEY @, Saturday, February 11, 2017, 21:58 (2933 days ago) @ Korny

I don't follow that logic. If you can afford a $400 console, you can likely afford an extra $100 for a keyboard and mouse. I just don't think limiting people's options is a good thing for any reason. Fairness just isn't a defense that holds up in my mind.

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But a $150 Elite controller is totally fine?

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Saturday, February 11, 2017, 22:38 (2933 days ago) @ cheapLEY

It creates an awkward spot in the logic, but that's also a change which doesn't create astronomical qualitative differences in player's limitations. It's like having a lower-quality pair of running shoes versus trying to outrun a bicycle. People on base gamepads can still basically have fun and interesting competition against people on elite controllers.

I just don't think limiting people's options is a good thing for any reason.

In practice, there's no way to not limit someone's options.

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I almost never change ecosystems, even with crossplay

by Kahzgul, Saturday, February 11, 2017, 06:58 (2934 days ago) @ Revenant1988

I buy for my preferred platform, and justifying a second purchase of the same game is really, really hard for me. There would need to be crossplay (or save transfers) as well as a trade-in of $5 or less for me to even consider it.

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